Wired Home Automation solution?

KAKAN

KAKAN

Forerunner
I'm in the market for building wired home automation, but I'm unable to find any standards that are used in India. Even most electricians just recommend going wireless.
KNX, which is a popular standard in European countries, is almost non-existent here, and imported switches are expensive.
OneWire protocol might be possible, but then again, not sure how many actually support that either.

There are some projects online like:
www.crowdsupply.com

GetWired

A complete solution for easy-to-use and affordable wired home automation
www.crowdsupply.com www.crowdsupply.com

And even some upcoming ones like:
www.crowdsupply.com

Open Smart Kit

Open source, flexible, modular hardware modules with Home Assistant compatibility for any of your automation needs
www.crowdsupply.com www.crowdsupply.com

Right now, GetWired looks to be the most promising option. Aside from that, I suppose the best way would be to just have Ethernet wires to all rooms in a house and hope there's some standard in the future like GetWired which can act as a hub per room and communicate to a local HA instance using Ethernet.

Of course, a smart home should be "smart", so in case of failures, manual overrides are a must, whether that be using a 2 state relay, or some other method :P

There are many reasons one would want to build wired home automation, so please don't say in the thread to go for wireless.
 
Hello :)

I was in same dilemma when i wanted to automate my lighting and fans showroom: 250+ light points, 30+ fan points, aircon, security, and alot more.

Ps: My knowledge of open-source automation, proxmox, and many apps which people use, is very very LOW :( plus since it's a showroom, i wanted it to programmable easily without me ever going there for any hiccups.

So I took quotations from brands which we are dealing with :
1. Goldmedal
2. Havells Crabtree
3. Osum
4. Schneider

We also compared many many options which we sell in wireless. But you are right,
Wired automation has no comparison with wireless automation.
Wired is overall better. Period.

We settled for a brand and specific modules which suited our requirement. One-size cannot fit all here.

Now il list the type of solutions different brands offer:
Knx
Bus Bro
SL Bus

Each solution has pros n cons.
It's a very very indepth topic and selection depends on in things like
1. Tech know howto do automations on your own
2. Architect has given electrical looping layout?
3. Lighting plans and lighting budget
4. Area
5. Devices
6. Budget
7. Pre-sales services
8. Post sale services in your region
9. Over the cloud tech support
10. Space for distribution box
11. Spaces for switches
12. Spaces for controllers/keypads/buttons

If you can put things here, i can answer, as it will help me also learn new things from automation experienced members here on TE.
 
Last edited:
sato1986 said:
Now il list the type of solutions different brands offer:
Knx
Bus Bro
SL Bus
Click to expand...
There's also Modbus and many other protocols, but the biggest challenge is that aside from KNX and 1Wire, most are built either for building automations, or for industrial automations. The first means you can only buy things in huge bulk, and the second means both bulk and usually large/ugly switches/DIN rail solutions.

Best ones are typically some sort of hybrid like KNX/Modbus where the actual standard between switches/fans/etc to controllers is their own protocol, and from controllers to the main hub via Ethernet/wireless/any other standard easier for computers to work with.

sato1986 said:
Each solution has pros n cons.
It's a very very indepth topic and selection depends on in things like
1. Tech know howto do automations on your own
2. Architect has given electrical looping layout?
3. Lighting plans and budget
4. Area
5. Devices
6. Budget
7. Pre-sales services
8. Post sale services in your region
9. Over the cloud tech support
10. Space for distribution box
11. Spaces for switches
12. Spaces for controllers/keypads/buttons
Click to expand...
1. I consider myself pretty technical, and I can configure/flash stuff as I want to as well, so technical challenge, at least the software side, shouldn't be much of an issue. Still, I'd like to go with some trusted solution since I want the home automation to be "set up and forget it" for a long time.
2. Yep
3. Preferably lights controlled via relays and ones that can be programmed for fun via code/PLC
4. Not very big, each floor should require 2 WiFi AP at minimum to have the whole house covered. Typical 2 storeyed house.
5. Not sure what you mean...
I will have more than 80 switches overall, 12ish fans, preferably a thermostat as well, for ACing the whole house
6. Budget shouldn't be a concern for now, but a limit of 10 lakhs should be good enough, I think?
7, 8. No idea, nobody I asked did wired home automation at all. Most are either going with Shelly, Phillips, or some local brands which sucks.
9. If avoidable, please no cloud. If not avoidable, there should at least be a way for the device to work without cloud. I'll just keep it permanently disconnected. I do need support for Home Assistant though.
10, 11, 12. Each room has enough space, I think. This can be changed, so shouldn't be an issue.

I'm just exploring for now. My plan is to just have CAT6 or Fiber cables running to every part of the house, and figure out the rest later.
 
KAKAN said:
My plan is to just have CAT6 or Fiber cables running to every part of the house, and figure out the rest later.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what Jonathan Oxer did: https://youtube.com/user/SuperHouseTV

All switches are wired with ethernet and trigger mqtt events that control lights with Arduino hardware.

I've taken a lame-hybrid approach with Tasmota, the wifi switch is in line with traditional wiring. When you turn on using the regular wall switch, it'll turn on the light or fan for 30 mins after which tasmota will turn it off. If you want it on again, then turn it off and then back on. Wireless control will also work so long as the wall switch is on. There is some additional logic, like if it's evening then the lights stay on longer, same with if it's day then the fans stay on longer. Eventually I'll have human presence detectors to turn on all lights and fans automatically, but it'll only work if the wall switch is on.

I used to put everything on tasmota but then I shifted my approach so that a regular electrician can put a light or fan back to manual operation easily, in case I'm not around and something goes wrong.

Apart from manual control, the other reason why I did it this way is because our switchboxes are metal and prevent a reliable wireless connection to anything kept inside, so instead I have sonoff devices next to the light fixture.

You can get "set it and forget it" type automation but it'll be subscription based so someone else will worry about keeping things running.

Everything else will need some level of monitoring.
 
rsaeon said:
You can get "set it and forget it" type automation but it'll be subscription based so someone else will worry about keeping things running.
Click to expand...
Electrically, I meant.
My plan is to have 2-way relays for all fans/lights/electricals. That way, a switch will always provide a manual override for switching things ON, and I can have the automation of enabling the fan for 30mins in case a light bulb was turned on or off etc.

The "set it and forget it" was basically to ensure if something does go wrong, the house works like a normal, non-automated house, with switches overriding everything else. I should've worded myself better, sorry.
rsaeon said:
All switches are wired with ethernet and trigger mqtt events that control lights with Arduino hardware.
Click to expand...
Lol yeah, I was thinking of DIY'ing it too. ESP or Pi Pico with Ethernet port and then run ESPHome or custom rolled software. Would be much cheaper than a Schneider KNX solution, but not sure how "reliable"/"long term" the solution would be?
 
KAKAN said:
There's also Modbus and many other protocols, but the biggest challenge is that aside from KNX and 1Wire, most are built either for building automations, or for industrial automations. The first means you can only buy things in huge bulk, and the second means both bulk and usually large/ugly switches/DIN rail solutions.

Best ones are typically some sort of hybrid like KNX/Modbus where the actual standard between switches/fans/etc to controllers is their own protocol, and from controllers to the main hub via Ethernet/wireless/any other standard easier for computers to work with.


1. I consider myself pretty technical, and I can configure/flash stuff as I want to as well, so technical challenge, at least the software side, shouldn't be much of an issue. Still, I'd like to go with some trusted solution since I want the home automation to be "set up and forget it" for a long time.
2. Yep
3. Preferably lights controlled via relays and ones that can be programmed for fun via code/PLC
4. Not very big, each floor should require 2 WiFi AP at minimum to have the whole house covered. Typical 2 storeyed house.
5. Not sure what you mean...
I will have more than 80 switches overall, 12ish fans, preferably a thermostat as well, for ACing the whole house
6. Budget shouldn't be a concern for now, but a limit of 10 lakhs should be good enough, I think?
7, 8. No idea, nobody I asked did wired home automation at all. Most are either going with Shelly, Phillips, or some local brands which sucks.
9. If avoidable, please no cloud. If not avoidable, there should at least be a way for the device to work without cloud. I'll just keep it permanently disconnected. I do need support for Home Assistant though.
10, 11, 12. Each room has enough space, I think. This can be changed, so shouldn't be an issue.

I'm just exploring for now. My plan is to just have CAT6 or Fiber cables running to every part of the house, and figure out the rest later.
Click to expand...
As per this I can recommend OSUM for non-programming option.
Osum gives you the possibility of using conventional switches, physical automation swtiches, scene controllers and many more things in the same normal electrical box. Hence it's alot like retro-fit of wired automation. Just 2 wires run from DB to each switch box. They have most modules (on-off relays, phase-cut dimming, scene controllers, DALI 64 DT8 DT6 controllers) built into the module behind the swtich.
In our showroom scenario, where KNX options and Havells options were upwards of Rs. 20Lacs, Osum did it in around 5.5Lacs. And since it's made in India as per Indian boxes, it's very easy to install. (I would have been able to do myself, while my electrician-skill is also very low :P )
Programming options i'm unaware of.
I think you will be better with progammable options, as you have that knowledge :) In that case, you can skip Osum.
 
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Thank you @sato1986!
Osum looks pretty cool!
But it doesn't seem like they've designed for any non-cloud/local-only setup, which is a deal breaker... Oh well, I'll shoot them a message using their contact form, let's see if they have any APIs, or local server support.
 
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Do let know in this thread, what's their response to your query. I do have all contact numbers of Osum squad (that's what they call their technicians), and Sales team, India regional-head, but I don't have the right questions to ask :)
 
KAKAN said:
Lol yeah, I was thinking of DIY'ing it too. ESP or Pi Pico with Ethernet port and then run ESPHome or custom rolled software. Would be much cheaper than a Schneider KNX solution, but not sure how "reliable"/"long term" the solution would be?
Click to expand...
I am using self built devices with ESP and Tasmota, they have been running locally now reaching 5 years.
I have a couple of devices fail mostly the power supply devices never the complete module.
I would recommend using some safety fuses in-line if you are using PCB brick power supplies.

For all of my installation I have manual control also available in-case the wifi connection is unstable. except one or two devices where I don't have physically reachable areas.

For me going the DIY route was reasonable, since some of the devices need custom devices support depending on how many devices I needed control for.
 
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KAKAN said:
My plan is to have 2-way relays for all fans/lights/electricals. That way, a switch will always provide a manual override for switching things ON, and I can have the automation of enabling the fan for 30mins in case a light bulb was turned on or off etc.
Click to expand...

That's pretty clever, you'd just need a UI button that toggles without caring if something is on or off — and you could also implement state reading with a mains-level optocoupler working as an input, to show in the UI if a device is powered or not.

Love this thread, it's giving me ideas on how to better implement home automation, I hadn't installed a new switch in years because I was struggling with figuring out manual control and was waiting until I could make my own pcbs.
 
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rsaeon said:
That's pretty clever, you'd just need a UI button that toggles without caring if something is on or off — and you could also implement state reading with a mains-level optocoupler working as an input, to show in the UI if a device is powered or not.

Love this thread, it's giving me ideas on how to better implement home automation, I hadn't installed a new switch in years because I was struggling with figuring out manual control and was waiting until I could make my own pcbs.
Click to expand...
Tasmota has pretty clever input pins configurations you can use.
I have a device with single push button(akin to a doorbell switch connected to the ESP module pins) to control 2 devices.

If press I the button once it toggles the first relay, and if you press it twice it toggles the second.
Since, the state are already managed and reported by Tasmota, Home Assistant has consistent state.

It works for my use-case.
 
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Thanks, this is some amazing details here haha

The optocoupler for state management is a really cool idea, thanks for that @rsaeon!
That was something I was struggling with, like how'd I manage something via the UI if it was turned on manually using the switch. Now I can use that and just show a text below it that's it's been turned on manually heh

Of course, I will never connect a switch directly as an input to a ESP or some uC, because I want the manual override to always work :D

Love this thread, and seems like going the DIY route w/ Ethernet is the best option, and I can be lazy about it and slowly upgrade the house to be automated instead of worrying about it from the start (just have Ethernet and 5V cables running everywhere for now).
 
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KAKAN said:
Love this thread, and seems like going the DIY route w/ Ethernet is the best option, and I can be lazy about it and slowly upgrade the house to be automated instead of worrying about it from the start (just have Ethernet and 5V cables running everywhere for now).
Click to expand...
I just remembered seeing USB 5V fittings in eletrical store, what about using that to power any internal devices.

But the cost are too high I feel:

This would involve some retrofitting to get the 5V power for the IoT device to be integrated inside the electrical box within the wall.
 
Layouts like this shall really help
 

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rsaeon said:
Even better, use PoE for power. I've been powering all my remote esp8266 sensors with simple PoE to 12V adapters.
Click to expand...
PoE is planned. 5V wiring isn't for power, it's in case I want to experiment with KNX like, but custom solution DIY solution. It's just that it's easier to have it pulled in at the start
 
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