There is 'feathers of a kind' (nato) relationship between these countries and USA.
Even if India want 4 of this, arm twisting involved will make India a vassal of USA.
‘Tech delayed is tech denied’ -IAF Chief
- Thread starter solo_wing
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Even if India want 4 of this, arm twisting involved will make India a vassal of USA.
F-35 is way advanced. It will be great to have but again dealing with Americans is hard in the long run.
Even UAE one of their allies is moving towards other countries.
Australia is also buying some $ 300 billion submarines.
They are very rich with resources. Almost like blessed by gods.
Plus I don't think they have such scammers( atleast on the scale we have) like we have running the country.
radiantoceans
Contributor
In that case maybe consider something like above.
This platform is not flashy, its not glamorous, its not a superstar aircraft like an F-22, F-35, Eurofighter, Su-35 but its inexpensive, simple to operate, reliable, easily maintainable, and effective.
It appears to have a very capable electronic warfare suite and advanced avionics. Saab is open to technology transfer and will open a local production plant if selected.
The Gripen E is a bread and butter aircraft, a workhorse, the type that will do most of the fighting in an actual war.
And yes I've heard the argument against it, by choosing a completely new platform with which the IAF has no prior experience.
The Gripen E will make up the shortfall in aircraft numbers which the IAF is currently facing.
It appears to be a similar type of aircraft like the Tejas and is arguably what the Tejas can be or should be.
But it and other 4th gen aircraft like it will likely still be outmatched by a J-20.
Since F-35 is not an option, that vulnerability remains unaddressed.
Other fifth gen aircraft which can be considered include the Mitsubishi X-2 Shinshin, KF-21 Boramae or the Su-75 Checkmate.
But they all appear to be a long way away from entering active service.
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Have Japanese offered India any such deal?
I am not aware.
Beside Japanese are too strongly allied or depende on USA. If the USA says...(Hindi- hago)..they will go and do that only.
Buying from Japan is almost like buying from USA .
As for Russia Su-57 ...I heard they offered some great deals to India but it has not proven much effective I think during Ukraine war.
Decades of neglect or maybe we didn't expect China to so rapidly increase their air power too has put us in such desparate situation that we don't know what exactly we should do now in the given situation.
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radiantoceans
Contributor
Well besides these three, Turkey has a fifth gen fighter in development called the TAI TF Kaan. I doubt they'll sell either.
Are bhai...Turkey. that Erdogan guy is crazy .
He is full of hate for India.
Has taken some really anti India stance recently.
He is even offered to arm Bangladesh to piss India.
radiantoceans
Contributor
Politics will reduce an already small field of 5th gen aircraft options even further.
From what I know Su-57 is not considered true 5th gen so not sure if Su-75 will be any different.
In any case Russia is preoccupied so not sure to what extent they'll be able to deliver Su-75.
With respect to MMRCA 2.0 / MRFA cost appears to be a factor otherwise Govt wouldn't have reopened the tender.
Maybe they're doing this to pressure Dassault into lowering Rafale's costing.
At the same time things have gotten to a point where IAF is now facing critical shortage of aircraft, so a decision has to be taken soon.
And if Govt is that cash strapped then imo Gripen should be considered.
From what I know Su-57 is not considered true 5th gen so not sure if Su-75 will be any different.
In any case Russia is preoccupied so not sure to what extent they'll be able to deliver Su-75.
With respect to MMRCA 2.0 / MRFA cost appears to be a factor otherwise Govt wouldn't have reopened the tender.
Maybe they're doing this to pressure Dassault into lowering Rafale's costing.
At the same time things have gotten to a point where IAF is now facing critical shortage of aircraft, so a decision has to be taken soon.
And if Govt is that cash strapped then imo Gripen should be considered.
India plans to crank up Tejas production to stem IAF’s depletion in fighters | India News - The Times of India
India News: India plans to increase Tejas jet production with deliveries of GE aero-engines starting March. Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) aims for 20 jets per year,
timesofindia.indiatimes.com
radiantoceans
Contributor
Today's update...India plans to crank up Tejas production to stem IAF’s depletion in fighters | India News - The Times of India
India News: India plans to increase Tejas jet production with deliveries of GE aero-engines starting March. Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) aims for 20 jets per year,
Good, I guess, but the IAF is in this position partly because LCA deliveries have thus far been delayed.
As per this article they are yet to receive even the full 40 aircraft for which the contract was signed back in 2010.
How much longer the IAF is prepared to wait is the question.
radiantoceans
Contributor
At one point I think Kaveri engine was supposed to power Tejas, I guess that got scrapped.
Anyway whosoever decided to go with Tejas they must feel there will be no issue with GE engine delivery.
Lets hope there are no similar engine development / availability / sourcing issues for AMCA.
GE engine has already been running delayed from its previous delivery.
India even considered putting a penalty on GE as per the clause for delay but they backed out..US Biden must have pressured our Babus.
Trump coming must have got the process back on track for now.
Trump has business mostly like mindset. He just wants money and wants to get the job done.
But still can't trust Americans yet.
radiantoceans
Contributor
Oh, you think they deliberately delayed engine delivery ?
I've heard the slow rate of production has also contributed to increased cost per unit.
And I think there are other sourcing issues besides the engine, check below article.
Tejas Mk-1A Delay Danish Export Blacklist
Lets hope they get all these problems sorted in time for AMCA.
If those 5th gen fighters from China and Turkey are even half as good, the rafale is going to be seen first and engaged first.
The Su30 line up will just be used as a bomb truck or a missile carrier.
Sadly for us, the F35 is too expensive to maintain and the baggage of the USA is not worth it.
Russia SU57 will be inferior to the Chinese J31.
If the AMCA fails to arrive on time then we do have the Korean KF-21 block 2 version that is 2 to 4 years away from first flight. It will share some commonalities like meteor missle, F414 engines that India already has.
Only then will India scramble to buy.
The Su30 line up will just be used as a bomb truck or a missile carrier.
Sadly for us, the F35 is too expensive to maintain and the baggage of the USA is not worth it.
Russia SU57 will be inferior to the Chinese J31.
If the AMCA fails to arrive on time then we do have the Korean KF-21 block 2 version that is 2 to 4 years away from first flight. It will share some commonalities like meteor missle, F414 engines that India already has.
Yes they are going to sell it Pakistan. Paks are going to get two options Turkey and Chinese options.
Only then will India scramble to buy.
I am not sure about it but if it truly is..
I won't be surprised either.
China is capable of doing anything.
radiantoceans
Contributor
ramsudharsan75
Apprentice
Recently I read somewhere that India is investing again in Kaveri engine development. It's been more than 30 years, and still India doesn't have a working engine. Man, the desperation! There needs to be a serious push towards this. Improvements can be caught up quickly, the initial engine needs to be in place.
Everything boils down to one thing:
Indians (as a whole) are not interested in doing R&D. It is a long painful process, that has mostly (costly) failures and usually less rewarding success. Indians can only excel in trading and undercutting competition, that's how we have built our prowess in the world.
There are Indian private players in Aero & Defense, but their inhouse R&D capabilities are not anything more than a university R&D.
Sarkari R&D organizations like ISRO, DRDO has to fight to get projects from defense establishments because our fauji generals/admirals/marshals have their relatives running foreign OEM channel/dealer companies. Then each of these R&D organization comes with its own bureaucratic hurdles. Sometimes govt installs puppets at helm of R&D programs who stall the projects so that it can later be awarded to rishtedaar dealers.
Indians (as a whole) are not interested in doing R&D. It is a long painful process, that has mostly (costly) failures and usually less rewarding success. Indians can only excel in trading and undercutting competition, that's how we have built our prowess in the world.
There are Indian private players in Aero & Defense, but their inhouse R&D capabilities are not anything more than a university R&D.
Sarkari R&D organizations like ISRO, DRDO has to fight to get projects from defense establishments because our fauji generals/admirals/marshals have their relatives running foreign OEM channel/dealer companies. Then each of these R&D organization comes with its own bureaucratic hurdles. Sometimes govt installs puppets at helm of R&D programs who stall the projects so that it can later be awarded to rishtedaar dealers.
radiantoceans
Contributor
Well people gravitate towards whatever pays better both literally and figuratively. As you said yourself the payoff if any in R&D is uncertain and may not be worth it.
ISRO has had a number of successes under its belt over the past few years, moon landing, mars probe, commercial satellite launches etc.
DRDO appears to have done well in missile development. So its not that government organizations cannot do R&D.
Maybe facing issues moving up the production chain.
Wouldn't be surprised if MRFA tender ends in a toss up between Eurofighter vs Rafale like it was last time.
ISRO has had a number of successes under its belt over the past few years, moon landing, mars probe, commercial satellite launches etc.
DRDO appears to have done well in missile development. So its not that government organizations cannot do R&D.
Maybe facing issues moving up the production chain.
Wouldn't be surprised if MRFA tender ends in a toss up between Eurofighter vs Rafale like it was last time.
bssunilreddy
Keymaster
India Allocates Record Rs 6.81 Lakh Cr For Defence In FY25-26
According to the official figures, the largest share of the budget—45.76 per cent or Rs 3.11 lakh crore—has been allocated for revenue expenditure to meet the operational requirements of the armed forcesAccording to the official figures released by the Ministry of Defence, the largest share of the budget—45.76 per cent or Rs 3.11 lakh crore—has been allocated for revenue expenditure to meet the operational requirements of the armed forces. Capital outlay, which funds the acquisition of new equipment, weapons, and infrastructure development, stands at Rs 1.8 lakh crore, constituting 26.43 per cent of the total allocation.
Defence pensions account for Rs 1.6 lakh crore (23.60 per cent), ensuring financial security for retired military personnel. Meanwhile, Rs 28,682.97 crore (4.21 per cent) has been earmarked for civil organisations operating under the Ministry of Defence.
DRDO Budget Increased By 12.41 Per Cent
The government has also increased the budget allocation for the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) for the financial year 2025-26, underscoring a renewed emphasis on indigenous military research and innovation.
According to official figures, DRDO has been allocated Rs 26,816.82 crore for FY 2025-26, marking a 12.41 per cent increase from the Rs 23,855.61 crore allotted in the previous financial year. This increase highlights India's commitment to strengthening its defence technology base and promoting self-reliance under the Atmanirbhar Bharat initiative.
A major portion of this budget—Rs 14,923.82 crore—has been earmarked for capital expenditure, which will support cutting-edge research and development projects, procurement of advanced defence technologies, and the modernisation of DRDO facilities.
The enhanced allocation is expected to boost ongoing and future defence projects, including missile systems, fighter aircraft, AI-driven warfare capabilities, and next-generation military platforms. This move aligns with India's broader strategy to reduce dependence on foreign defence imports and enhance indigenous capabilities in critical defence technologies.
Source:https://www.businessworld.in/articl...-rs-681-lakh-cr-for-defence-in-fy25-26-546968