0-20k 24x7 - Low Power Consumption Internet Connected PC

[MysteryMan]

24x7 - Low Power Consumption – Internet Download Machine

I want to build a System that has LOW POWER Consumption.

Use:

Mostly Downloading Stuffs , Might Host Own Cloud too , Email Clients , IRC Clients , Other Internet Connected Apps



I was thinking of a Kabini System

Athlon 5350 (25 W TDP) & Some AM1 Mother Board

Again I was thinking about the Intel G3258 Anniversary edition processor (But it has Much Larger TDP)

It should be A Windows 7 Machine . Not Linux or other what nots !

But I am Here for some Advice. I already told you my requirements.

Advise me - What should I do ?



I only want to buy

Processor + Motherboard + RAM

&

SMPS (PSU) + HDD

I have the rest

 

[MysteryMan]

As for the Template : Here it is .

1. What is your budget?
   • ~10k to 15k (Lower the Better)
2. What is your existing hardware configuration (component name - component brand and model)
   • Monitor - OLD Hp Monitor
3. Which hardware will you be keeping (component name - component brand and model)
   • Monitor - OLD Hp Monitor
4. Which hardware component are you looking to buy (component name). If you have already decided on a configuration then please mention the (component brand and model) as well, this will help us in fine tuning your requirement.
   • CPU (Most Important Decision Factor !)
   • Motherboard
   • RAM - (Minimum 4GB)
   • PSU
   • HDD
5. Is this going to be your final configuration or you would be adding/upgrading a component in near future. If yes then please mention when and which component
   • Yes, will upgrade the following within 2 years - Parts : as Needed
6. Where will you buy this hardware? (Online/City/TE Dealer)
   • Kolkata
   • Open to online purchase
7. Would you consider buying a second hand hardware from the TE market
   • No
8. What is your intended use for this PC/hardware
   • Download rig, 24x7 operation (MAIN Operation)
   • LOW POWER CONSUMPTION is Very Important .
   • Email Clients , IRC Clients
   • Browsing
   • HTPC (Might)
   • Watching movies (Might Do It)
9. Do you have any brand preference or dislike? Please name them and the reason for your preference/dislike.
   • No
10. If you will be playing games then which type of games will you be playing?
    • No Gaming
11. What is your preferred monitor resolution for gaming and normal usage
    1. 
       No Monitor
12. Are you looking to overclock?
    • Yes/No
13. Which operating system do you intend to use with this configuration?
    • Windows 7 64 bit / 32 Bit

 

[Crazy_Eddy]

Stick to the Kabini platform, since the socket gives you a bit more flexibility vs the soldered in bay trail chips like the J1900.

The other option is getting the G3258 or G3220 and underclocking + undervolting it. Underclocking it to say 2.4GHz at 0.8V will bring their TDP to 25W as well. Of course, you will need to run enough stability tests to verify that its stable at those voltages.
But, all this might not even be necessary, since Haswell is pretty aggressive with power saving states and stuff like downloading will mostly have the CPU idling, and it turns out it can idle at power levels lower than the Kabini (link 1, link 2). There's the other concept that if the CPU is more powerful, it can finish a task quicker and idle quicker too, so your average power consumption might still be lower - this is sort of illustrated in the SPCR review link above, where playing Flash or H264 videos on the Pentium has a lower power consumption that the Athlon 5350. Plus, the 55W TDP for the Intel Pentiums is exaggerated, in reality its lower.

 

[Revolution]

Intel G3258 may be overprices but Intel G3220 is better choice then.

 

[MysteryMan]

@Crazy_Eddy - Presently i am running a i7 4770k system , So are you saying my i7 consumes less than what it says ?
If you are not stating this then , suggest a intel / intel haswell model that consumes low power as you described
I read the whole tech spot Review ,
And i want 'Low Power Consumption' to be my first preferrence
Also I dont think Between two processors (in the discussion) Average Power Consumption is much different.

@Revolution - Hmmm What is the Real world Power Consumption of that Processor ?
Which Socket it uses ?

 

[Crazy_Eddy]

Also I dont think Between two processors (in the discussion) Average Power Consumption is much different.

Aren't there 3 types of processors under discussion here?
1. Intel Bay Trail chips (J1800/J1900) - no socket/soldered-in
2. AMD Kabini chips (Athlon 5350) - Socket AM1
3. The Intel Haswell chips (G3258/G3220) - Socket 1150

If absolute lowest power consumption is your goal, the Intel Bay Trail seems to have an edge. But boards for this platform are very few, and if your board dies, you need to throw the whole thing away including the soldered in chip.

Presently i am running a i7 4770k system , So are you saying my i7 consumes less than what it says ?

What I'm saying is :
1. The TDP ratings are not entirely accurate for various reasons. Read this thread for some discussion on the same : https://www.techenclave.com/community/threads/haswell-pentium-i3-availability.153231/#post-1898052 . I myself benched a regular 65W G620 on that thread and it reported a power consumption of 23W at 100% load (processor only, not inclusive of rest of system + PSU conversion losses). Technically it could be labeled a 25W TDP processor. There's a reason Intel doesn't sell it so - because they have a separate line of T and S processors that are specially tested to stay within those power envelopes, and are priced higher for these cherry picked procs.

2. The TDP rating is at full load. 25W TDP is at 100% CPU load. 65W TDP is at 100% CPU load. If your rig is doing something light like downloading, your CPU will be running at something like 2% load. TDP is a peak value, actual power consumption varies based on the load. Get Coretemp and check it out yourself. It becomes more complex when you realise a powerful chip can run at a lower CPU load for the same task than an 'efficient' chip which needs to run at full speed - so is it really efficient? That point was benchmarked on the SPCR review when they ran Flash/H264 video :

I agree there's a slight advantage because the Gigabyte H77 board is a mini itx low power board, but even if you factor that in, the Intel still look like it would be atleast on par with the AM1 setup.

 

[MysteryMan]

Aren't there 3 types of processors under discussion here?
1. Intel Bay Trail chips (J1800/J1900) - no socket/soldered-in
2. AMD Kabini chips (Athlon 5350) - Socket AM1
3. The Intel Haswell chips (G3258/G3220) - Socket 1150

If absolute lowest power consumption is your goal, the Intel Bay Trail seems to have an edge. But boards for this platform are very few, and if your board dies, you need to throw the whole thing away including the soldered in chip.

Sorry Forgot about the Haswell Chips!

What I'm saying is :
1. The TDP ratings are not entirely accurate for various reasons. Read this thread for some discussion on the same : https://www.techenclave.com/community/threads/haswell-pentium-i3-availability.153231/#post-1898052 . I myself benched a regular 65W G620 on that thread and it reported a power consumption of 23W at 100% load (processor only, not inclusive of rest of system + PSU conversion losses). Technically it could be labeled a 25W TDP processor. There's a reason Intel doesn't sell it so - because they have a separate line of T and S processors that are specially tested to stay within those power envelopes, and are priced higher for these cherry picked procs.

2. The TDP rating is at full load. 25W TDP is at 100% CPU load. 65W TDP is at 100% CPU load. If your rig is doing something light like downloading, your CPU will be running at something like 2% load. TDP is a peak value, actual power consumption varies based on the load. Get Coretemp and check it out yourself. It becomes more complex when you realise a powerful chip can run at a lower CPU load for the same task than an 'efficient' chip which needs to run at full speed - so is it really efficient? That point was benchmarked on the SPCR review when they ran Flash/H264 video :

I agree there's a slight advantage because the Gigabyte H77 board is a mini itx low power board, but even if you factor that in, the Intel still look like it would be atleast on par with the AM1 setup.

Seeing this - my understanding just - ROCKED !

Please give me the direct link to this review/comparison - i would like to know more about it!

In this case a NUC is the Best case scenario .
http://www.ebay.in/itm/like/intel-n...ll-3yrs-warty-/331285007891?pt=in_desktop_pcs

But in this case First time Investment is Much Large than AM1 / Pentium Baytrail / Haswell
But on the Bright Side This Comes Totally Packed - just Plug and Play !

I have a question to any NUC Users Here & you .

If i run this NUC the whole day - every day i.e. 24x7x365 will it become very hot and break ??
Generally this is a common occurrence in kolkata - my previous P4 Build got so hot that it Damaged the Motherboard Socket Rendering the whole system nu-operable. Will the same thing happen to the NUC too ?

And Back to the Non NUC Topic

So If you were me , which combination would you choose , now that Kabini Suddenly Consumes More Electricity

#Another Questions are -
Q1.Is it good to leave some headroom for the PC ?
Q2.Can i do a custom build using the Processor and Mother board of the Intel NUC ?
Q3.It was my General View in the Past that in general AMD processors consume more Power than Intel Ones ?

 

[Crazy_Eddy]

Please give me the direct link to this review/comparison - i would like to know more about it!

Posted earlier, here it is once again : http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1390-page4.html

The NUC is quite expensive mainly because of the i5 4250U chip which costs 315$. It is plug and play, but you still need to add in your own SODIMM DDR3 sticks and an mSATA drive.
In the real world you might not notice a few watts difference in terms of 24x7 electricity costs (you would probably see only 200 bucks worth of electricity difference over the whole year), so the Pentium option still looks like the most value. There is one advantage with the NUC - a much more efficient low capacity power supply. With regular PC builds, its hard to get a low wattage but good quality PSU unless you get one of those DC-DC Pico PSUs.

Q1.Is it good to leave some headroom for the PC ?

Do you mean headroom in terms of performance? Then yes.

Q2.Can i do a custom build using the Processor and Mother board of the Intel NUC ?

No. The i5 4250U in that particular NUC is a BGA chipset, i.e. soldered to the board. And I don't think the NUC form factor is available from third party motherboard manufacturers.
You can however get mini ITX boards and 'S' variant processors for a custom build, although both are quite hard to find here in India.

Q3.It was my General View in the Past that in general AMD processors consume more Power than Intel Ones ?

Yes and no. The P4 era was when AMD was a lot more efficient than Intel which also explains why your P4 build got hot and damaged the socket. However, since the P4 fiasco, Intel has kept the advantage in manufacturing process.

 

[MysteryMan]

I read the Article and also tried to find some reviews of
G2120
In Most of them There is not much Power Consumption Info
In Some of them , There is .

Here is one Such
(Intel Pentium G2120 | Power Consumption)
http://www.servethehome.com/intel-pentium-g2120-review-benchmarks/

The reviews show Around 24 to 26 W (minimum) Power Consumption [or more according to some other reviews]
As it says Minimum - i think it is safe to assume idle state

Another such review is
http://techonbudget.com/desktops/intel-pentium-g2120-review

So the confusion i am in is who's Review is to be believed.

I am fairly certain that SilentPCReview's Review has some Problems , because it is the only review i came across that shows the power consumption about 13w in idle state.

If you find any other Reviews that matches SilentPCReviews' Numbers , Please Post here

A few things about G2120 (that i gathered)
Its a "Ivy Bridge" -
Pentium G2140 has the same price as G2120
(acc. to Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Pentium_microprocessors

Also there is a Low Power Edition of this Processor

Pentium G2120T
TDP - 35W

Now are you talking about the

Pentium G2120T or Pentium G2120 ???

Pentium G2120
http://ark.intel.com/products/65527

Pentium G2120T
http://ark.intel.com/products/71097

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AMD:

AM1 Platform is Upgradable Right ?
I mean the next time AMD Brings out the Updated Processor , i dont have to change the Motherboard.
But I have to in case of Intel ... So thats a thing to look out for.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
{You Said -
If absolute lowest power consumption is your goal, the Intel Bay Trail seems to have an edge. But boards for this platform are very few, and if your board dies, you need to throw the whole thing away including the soldered in chip.
}

Upto This Point - What is the Feedback for Baytrails from End Users ?
Are they Reliable , And Capable of Running 24x7.
Because if the Motherboard & Processor are Soldered then - it must be Cheap , so that i can replace Without any hefty cost

So if i am to consider Baytrails - Which Model Do you Prefer ?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Out of Topic Question:

I am using a i7 4770k now ,
Should i sell it and get a i7 4790k ?

(Using Asus Z87 Pro - Motherboard - Supports the Later with a BIOS update)

 

[Crazy_Eddy]

So the confusion i am in is who's Review is to be believed.

They are all correct. There are other power overheads in addition to the 25W CPU like motherboard chipsets, fans, HDD/SSD, and more importantly PSU conversion losses.
If you look over the components of the test setups being measured, you might understand why the SPCR setup's numbers are low and why some other review's numbers are high. For example, this is how AM1 power consumption looks like when used in an inefficient platform : http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/athlon-5350-am1-platform-review,3801-9.html , idling at 31W and going all the way to ~50W. The SPCR platform was a lot more efficient, even for the AM1 setup. Which is why...

If you find any other Reviews that matches SilentPCReviews' Numbers , Please Post here

.. it's a better option if you find reviews directly comparing the AM1 with any Pentium while performing the same computing task eg. playing back a video.

AM1 Platform is Upgradable Right ?
I mean the next time AMD Brings out the Updated Processor , i dont have to change the Motherboard.

You will get Beema based APUs, but beyond that is doubtful. This is the timeline of AMD's APU sockets :- Socket FM1 (2011) -> Socket FM2 (2012) -> Socket FM2+ (2013) -> Socket AM1 (2014).

Upto This Point - What is the Feedback for Baytrails from End Users ?
Are they Reliable , And Capable of Running 24x7.

@vivek.krishnan reported that his baytrail setup had to be RMAd, so maybe he can comment.

Because if the Motherboard & Processor are Soldered then - it must be Cheap , so that i can replace Without any hefty cost

They are quite cheap. I think 4~5k for the cpu + mobo combo. However if you plan to extend its capabilities as a HTPC, I don't think it would handle it.

P.s.: Why not save your time/effort and get more efficient electrical appliances instead? As I said this is far too much effort for a mere 100~200 rupees in electricity savings per year.

 

[vivek.krishnan]

Actually, mine is a Ivy Bridge chip - C1037U. I bought these because of the dual GbE LAN ports - GA 1037UN. However, my board started smokin shit. Gigabyte refused warranty - then a month later said its fixed. Its been 2 months, I have not had the time to pick up the board.

The original purpose was to use these to run pfSense - an awesome firewall. The board is good, but then we have had a LAN port issue and an unidentified issue, thus, I am no longer going with these boards for the time being - planning to stick with ASUS.

We have bought a Gigabyte (no ASUS options were available in north) J1800 board for testing purpose too - this is Bay Trail. So far, it has issues with Linux. However, for 4K, its an awesome piece of mobo, accepts SO DIMMs, has USB3. Lack of PCI is a downer.

If you are planning to run them 24x7, I would suggest to please not run anything critical - my 1037 was a testing rig for new pfsense builds.

 

[MysteryMan]

.. it's a better option if you find reviews directly comparing the AM1 with any Pentium while performing the same computing task eg. playing back a video.

OK , Checking them

@vivek.krishnan reported that his baytrail setup had to be RMAd, so maybe he can comment.

Contacting !

P.s.: Why not save your time/effort and get more efficient electrical appliances instead? As I said this is far too much effort for a mere 100~200 rupees in electricity savings per year.

So you are Saying
Running i7 4770k system
vs
Running a G2120/AM1 Setup

Saves only 100 to 200 Rupees ?


P.S. - The Real Reason i am looking towards reducing PC Power Consumption is Rising Bills , 4 Years Back our Monthly bill was 1/3rd of what it is now , and PC Usage (no. of hours) have not changed much Neither is the Usage of Other Electrical Appliance
only thing that is changed is a few extra mobiles came into the family.
And Another reason is using a i7 machine for a downloading rig and running it 24x7 is not really a good idea

Thanks for all the information & wisdom you gave me till now .

Actually, mine is a Ivy Bridge chip - C1037U. I bought these because of the dual GbE LAN ports - GA 1037UN. However, my board started smokin shit. Gigabyte refused warranty - then a month later said its fixed. Its been 2 months, I have not had the time to pick up the board.

The original purpose was to use these to run pfSense - an awesome firewall. The board is good, but then we have had a LAN port issue and an unidentified issue, thus, I am no longer going with these boards for the time being - planning to stick with ASUS.

We have bought a Gigabyte (no ASUS options were available in north) J1800 board for testing purpose too - this is Bay Trail. So far, it has issues with Linux. However, for 4K, its an awesome piece of mobo, accepts SO DIMMs, has USB3. Lack of PCI is a downer.

you guys actually Implemented pfSense ! - sweet , i tried it on a VM once , Could not get it work properly -- Tell me more , and if you can Give me a Full Tutorial on how to do it

If you are planning to run them 24x7, I would suggest to please not run anything critical - my 1037 was a testing rig for new pfsense builds.

I plan to run utorrent , IDM/FDM , Thunderbird , Mirc , Browsers , Small Network Utilities . etc
And System Softwares - like CCleaner or similar to keep it clean
No Gaming .
My Priority is
1.Low Per Usage
2.Decent Performance to perform the things i want to do.
3.Reliable Enough to run 24x7
4.Windows - OS

BTW Seeing my usage
What Setup do You Prefer ? (For Me)

 

[vivek.krishnan]

I would agree with @Crazy_Eddy - its either run at low power for longer periods, or run at higher power, get the job done quickly. The thing you should look at is idle power. And

I dont think Bay Trail will cut it out. You are better off with a Haswell chip, IMO.

pfsense is not without its quirks - it refused to install on a old Lenovo C2D system. Was not showing the attached HDDs.

 

[Crazy_Eddy]

So you are Saying
Running i7 4770k system
vs
Running a G2120/AM1 Setup

Saves only 100 to 200 Rupees ?

No I meant among the 3 types of low power systems under consideration, a few watts here and there isn't going to vary by more than 100 bucks in electricity, so don't sweat it, especially since there are other overheads apart from the CPU.
I do not know what the rest of your i7 4770k system is like, or whether it's overclocked, etc. so cannot comment. But I find it very odd that 66% of your electricity bill is only being used by the PC - unless you're folding or bitcoin mining.

Personally though, I always find low power platforms eventually running out of breath, so I would like to have the additional headroom if and when my needs grow. Browsing is actually a lot more intensive than we expect with the type of content heavy websites out there these days. The techreport review actually summarised the Celeron/Pentium the same way I did, saying the extra power consumption scales with the extra performance, i.e. only if you use the extra performance does it use extra power.

 

[Arjun]

Actually, mine is a Ivy Bridge chip - C1037U. I bought these because of the dual GbE LAN ports - GA 1037UN. However, my board started smokin shit. Gigabyte refused warranty - then a month later said its fixed. Its been 2 months, I have not had the time to pick up the board.

The original purpose was to use these to run pfSense - an awesome firewall. The board is good, but then we have had a LAN port issue and an unidentified issue, thus, I am no longer going with these boards for the time being - planning to stick with ASUS.

We have bought a Gigabyte (no ASUS options were available in north) J1800 board for testing purpose too - this is Bay Trail. So far, it has issues with Linux. However, for 4K, its an awesome piece of mobo, accepts SO DIMMs, has USB3. Lack of PCI is a downer.

If you are planning to run them 24x7, I would suggest to please not run anything critical - my 1037 was a testing rig for new pfsense builds.

Is this the board you are using? Gigabyte GA-J1800N-D2H ,

Does it require 1.35v ram or 1.5v also works ?

 

[vivek.krishnan]

It needs 1.35V RAM. Tried with older 1.5V chips, did not work.