letmein
Herald
67 Years Old India. Your thoughts?
- Thread starter iPwnz
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67 years... Still caste and religion rules Indians.
I always blame Indians rather than India. We make it the shit hole. Otherwise its a very beautiful country. We think it belongs to our "baap", so that I can do whatever I want whenever I feel.
But truth to be told, we are in a better situation. But still people need to stop thinking in terms of caste, religion or even state. Even in "defense" forums the amount of bad mouthing other state is just pathetic. I mean is one better than the other? Each have their asshole natives. Whats so great about that?
Again, Hope is there. We should feel more patriotic. Should be more nationalistic. Believe in what we are and what me make. Its not that we are not capable to. It just that we don't feel like.
I always blame Indians rather than India. We make it the shit hole. Otherwise its a very beautiful country. We think it belongs to our "baap", so that I can do whatever I want whenever I feel.
But truth to be told, we are in a better situation. But still people need to stop thinking in terms of caste, religion or even state. Even in "defense" forums the amount of bad mouthing other state is just pathetic. I mean is one better than the other? Each have their asshole natives. Whats so great about that?
Again, Hope is there. We should feel more patriotic. Should be more nationalistic. Believe in what we are and what me make. Its not that we are not capable to. It just that we don't feel like.
Well to play the spoilsport on this thread:
If you look around outside India: which countries are indeed "good" by your measure? The ones that have had centuries of peaceful existence. Centuries of development. Centuries of independence from outside agencies.
Which countries are really rotten? The ones that were especially colonies of these "good" nations. Recently gained independence. Not much developed, corrupt to the bones. I think all this is natural human tendencies when they come together as a group. Give India some 100-200 years from independence and I am confident we will equal the developed nations (if there is no natural or manmade calamity that forces us back to "might is right" ages).
Think of it, most of the "development" that we speak of is a result of Selfishness & Greed. The only difference between Developed/Good nations and Developing/Corrupt nations is that common man doesn't suffer because of the selfishness and greed.
If you look around outside India: which countries are indeed "good" by your measure? The ones that have had centuries of peaceful existence. Centuries of development. Centuries of independence from outside agencies.
Which countries are really rotten? The ones that were especially colonies of these "good" nations. Recently gained independence. Not much developed, corrupt to the bones. I think all this is natural human tendencies when they come together as a group. Give India some 100-200 years from independence and I am confident we will equal the developed nations (if there is no natural or manmade calamity that forces us back to "might is right" ages).
Think of it, most of the "development" that we speak of is a result of Selfishness & Greed. The only difference between Developed/Good nations and Developing/Corrupt nations is that common man doesn't suffer because of the selfishness and greed.
letmein
Herald
Please read up a bit on European history. There were constant wars on the continent.
^^ India is not far away from China.
LOL, I think you need to read history yourself. Indian civilizations are one of the oldest civilizations around. India had trade routes to Egypt and some other countries long before the British and French and rest of modern European nations have ceased being mere barbarians roaming around. India had invented/discovered every practice that is considered evil in current day be it racism, objectification of women and more. Everything that people like to call evils of the west have been here long before the west had them.
The region that we know as India today was never even a unified nation. It was a bunch of kingdoms with greedy people and greedy kings who were constantly in strife and warring with one another. Anybody who had power went about on bloody campaigns to conquer whatever he could. This is reason why the Europeans were able to so easily bring all of the region under their control.
Europeans had a relatively short history of development, but it was also filled with constant strife contrary to what you seem to think. There is no such thing as a "good" nation. Their life style is a result of their own attitudes and their governance styles.
Similarly, ours is result of attitude of the people here and the governance styles. Our nation is corrupt because the people are corrupted and greedy beyond imagination. Our country is miserable because the people have made it so. Our country is not the way it is because it was ruled by British. In fact blaming somebody or the other for our own misery is also one other aspect of the attitude of the people here that resulted in us being where we are.
How can a country lay claim to any semblance of development when it has so many social evils have no place in pre-historic times leave alone now. Do you seriously think the extent of female foeticide and dowry deaths is because of the British rule till 67 years back? Why are there so many rapes in the country. Why is there so many discrimination based crimes?
67 years is a long time, But the question to ask is whether our country any better before the British took over for us to blame them. Why do we still have so many social evils and why do we still have many people who support them.
Had it not been the 400 years of British rule, I would hardly think we would even have decent coverage of train lines or telephone lines to this day. We would probably been be just like the warring tribes of Afghanistan to this day and we aren't doing any better either, its just that we have some semblance of modern day conveniences, but at the root of it, we are still fighting among one another and trying to keep clinging to the evils that we had 1000 years ago.
LOL, I think you need to read history yourself. Indian civilizations are one of the oldest civilizations around. India had trade routes to Egypt and some other countries long before the British and French and rest of modern European nations have ceased being mere barbarians roaming around. India had invented/discovered every practice that is considered evil in current day be it racism, objectification of women and more. Everything that people like to call evils of the west have been here long before the west had them.
The region that we know as India today was never even a unified nation. It was a bunch of kingdoms with greedy people and greedy kings who were constantly in strife and warring with one another. Anybody who had power went about on bloody campaigns to conquer whatever he could. This is reason why the Europeans were able to so easily bring all of the region under their control.
Europeans had a relatively short history of development, but it was also filled with constant strife contrary to what you seem to think. There is no such thing as a "good" nation. Their life style is a result of their own attitudes and their governance styles.
Similarly, ours is result of attitude of the people here and the governance styles. Our nation is corrupt because the people are corrupted and greedy beyond imagination. Our country is miserable because the people have made it so. Our country is not the way it is because it was ruled by British. In fact blaming somebody or the other for our own misery is also one other aspect of the attitude of the people here that resulted in us being where we are.
How can a country lay claim to any semblance of development when it has so many social evils have no place in pre-historic times leave alone now. Do you seriously think the extent of female foeticide and dowry deaths is because of the British rule till 67 years back? Why are there so many rapes in the country. Why is there so many discrimination based crimes?
67 years is a long time, But the question to ask is whether our country any better before the British took over for us to blame them. Why do we still have so many social evils and why do we still have many people who support them.
Had it not been the 400 years of British rule, I would hardly think we would even have decent coverage of train lines or telephone lines to this day. We would probably been be just like the warring tribes of Afghanistan to this day and we aren't doing any better either, its just that we have some semblance of modern day conveniences, but at the root of it, we are still fighting among one another and trying to keep clinging to the evils that we had 1000 years ago.
edge111hussain
Forerunner
To be honest, whenever i go abroad, the so called pheri walas are either africans or indians/pakistanis. Most bangladeshi's too either work in store or are self employed there.
I mean seriously, what is it with us indians and are poor mentality. Here the beggars harras you, there people selling cheap items constantly harras you. And guess what, they are all indians or pakis.
On my recent trip to europe, an Australian remarked when he saw some Indian pheriwalas selling souvenirs behind some teenagers, "these filthy's are everywhere, they just wont leave us alone".
It's our mentality that needs changing or India will never change, and it's about time.
I mean seriously, what is it with us indians and are poor mentality. Here the beggars harras you, there people selling cheap items constantly harras you. And guess what, they are all indians or pakis.
On my recent trip to europe, an Australian remarked when he saw some Indian pheriwalas selling souvenirs behind some teenagers, "these filthy's are everywhere, they just wont leave us alone".
It's our mentality that needs changing or India will never change, and it's about time.
Sasuke_Itachi
Discoverer
I agree with you. Caste is nothing special that existed only in India. Every old great civilization had one or other(Ex: Japanese Samurais could kill the first guy they saw after getting a new sword to test it),even the short lived European system had one albeit named differently: Royals,Clergy,commn etc. And compared to the blacks and whites in US, it sounds better to me.
Ultimately a country is the reflection of a group of peoples thoughts.Everyone blames and fights against corruption but don't mind paying some money for admission or to get a job. That's the basic reason of where we are today.
67 years of independence, and this is what we have. 
( everybody want to escape from it. 
)
IMO, the main problems - over population and illiteracy, and corruption and worst of all the "chalta hai" attitute.
The historical mistakes, (post independence)
1. Caste based reservations.
2. No intiative to control population.
3. Lack of proper planning to eradicate illiteracy completely.
4. License Raj - discouranging industries/investments.
( everybody want to escape from it. )IMO, the main problems - over population and illiteracy, and corruption and worst of all the "chalta hai" attitute.
The historical mistakes, (post independence)
1. Caste based reservations.
2. No intiative to control population.
3. Lack of proper planning to eradicate illiteracy completely.
4. License Raj - discouranging industries/investments.
your examples of other countries could be right but this notion about Afghanistan is wrong. Afghanistan too had a rich history and was once quite modern.
^^ That is exactly why I compared to Afghanistan. This entire region comprising of current day India, Pakistan and Afghanistan not only had a rich history (whether good or bad) but was also rich in other ways like natural resources and these regions had a lot of potential to grow and fast. There would have much these nations could have achieved in a span of even 20 years. Instead they chose to b1tch about their past, present and one another rather pool their resources, look towards the future and develop their nations.
If anybody seriously thinks that 67 years too short for any sort of development, let me remind you that Japan is a small island nation with limited resources that still managed to become an industrial and military super power, was devastated from the second world war, took two atom bombs, but still in the same period that we had since independence, look much they have developed.
This entire region comprising of current day India, Pakistan and Afghanistan not only had a rich history (whether good or bad) but was also rich in other ways like natural resources and these regions had a lot of potential to grow and fast. There would have much these nations could have achieved in a span of even 20 years. Instead they chose to b1tch about their past, present and one another rather pool their resources, look towards the future and develop their nations. If anybody seriously thinks that 67 years too short for any sort of development, let me remind you that Japan is a small island nation with limited resources that still managed to become an industrial and military super power, was devastated from the second world war, took two atom bombs, but still in the same period that we had since independence, look much they have developed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meiji_Restoration^^ That is exactly why I compared to Afghanistan.
If anybody seriously thinks that 67 years too short for any sort of development, let me remind you that Japan is a small island nation with limited resources that still managed to become an industrial and military super power, was devastated from the second world war, took two atom bombs, but still in the same period that we had since independence, look much they have developed.
Japan was very much a global super power (much like any other industrialized European nation) in the 19th century.
So it is not like they started development after the WW2 when nukes were dropped on them.
Sasuke_Itachi
Discoverer
^^ That is exactly why I compared to Afghanistan.
If anybody seriously thinks that 67 years too short for any sort of development, let me remind you that Japan is a small island nation with limited resources that still managed to become an industrial and military super power, was devastated from the second world war, took two atom bombs, but still in the same period that we had since independence, look much they have developed.
Japan as a country may be developed if you go by numbers:Crime rate,life expectancy etc. But it is a country without life. And people kill themselves out of frustration and depression like Nordic countries. And have you seen the crowd in trains,it's as bad as the Mumbai trains.Not to mention the exorbitant costs of everything. Life wise it's not a great country,you have to work an average for 70hours a day,then obligatory drinking party etc etc.These are things one learns from first hand experience,not the media who glorify the industrialization and economy.So I don't think for what we do India is bad.
The uniformed guys are there to push people inside the train.
viva1986
Explorer
how many of us here give bribe to traffic police and in government office's for your work to be done ASAP?
for me yes i give bribe to traffic police and wherever i think i can make my work ASAP by giving small amount of money "sometimes it is very necessary to bribe because besides it there is no path for my requirements to be fulfilled".
So if your answer is yes than you are also the part of CORRUPT peoples and dont tell that you dont like the corruption here and dont like to be here.
I like my country very much, even after so much negativeness little bit positiveness gives me happiness to be here. Remember this-:
सारे जहाँ से अच्छा हिन्दोसिताँ हमारा
हम बुलबुलें हैं इसकी यह गुलसिताँ हमारा
ग़ुर्बत में हों अगर हम, रहता है दिल वतन में
समझो वहीं हमें भी दिल हो जहाँ हमारा
परबत वह सबसे ऊँचा, हम्साया आसमाँ का
वह संतरी हमारा, वह पासबाँ हमारा
गोदी में खेलती हैं इसकी हज़ारों नदियाँ
गुल्शन है जिनके दम से रश्क-ए-जनाँ हमारा
ऐ आब-ए-रूद-ए-गंगा! वह दिन हैं याद तुझको?
उतरा तिरे किनारे जब कारवाँ हमारा
मज़्हब नहीं सिखाता आपस में बैर रखना
हिन्दी हैं हम, वतन है हिन्दोसिताँ हमारा
यूनान-व-मिस्र-व-रूमा सब मिट गए जहाँ से
अब तक मगर है बाक़ी नाम-व-निशाँ हमारा
कुछ बात है कि हस्ती मिटती नहीं हमारी
सदियों रहा है दुश्मन दौर-ए-ज़माँ हमारा
इक़्बाल! कोई महरम अपना नहीं जहाँ में
मालूम क्या किसी को दर्द-ए-निहाँ हमारा!
Important-:
"
मज़्हब नहीं सिखाता आपस में बैर रखना
हिन्दी हैं हम, वतन है हिन्दोसिताँ हमारा"
this is we who always fight for our religion but religion never told us to for it. and no religion is best all are same.
for me yes i give bribe to traffic police and wherever i think i can make my work ASAP by giving small amount of money "sometimes it is very necessary to bribe because besides it there is no path for my requirements to be fulfilled".
So if your answer is yes than you are also the part of CORRUPT peoples and dont tell that you dont like the corruption here and dont like to be here.
I like my country very much, even after so much negativeness little bit positiveness gives me happiness to be here. Remember this-:
सारे जहाँ से अच्छा हिन्दोसिताँ हमारा
हम बुलबुलें हैं इसकी यह गुलसिताँ हमारा
ग़ुर्बत में हों अगर हम, रहता है दिल वतन में
समझो वहीं हमें भी दिल हो जहाँ हमारा
परबत वह सबसे ऊँचा, हम्साया आसमाँ का
वह संतरी हमारा, वह पासबाँ हमारा
गोदी में खेलती हैं इसकी हज़ारों नदियाँ
गुल्शन है जिनके दम से रश्क-ए-जनाँ हमारा
ऐ आब-ए-रूद-ए-गंगा! वह दिन हैं याद तुझको?
उतरा तिरे किनारे जब कारवाँ हमारा
मज़्हब नहीं सिखाता आपस में बैर रखना
हिन्दी हैं हम, वतन है हिन्दोसिताँ हमारा
यूनान-व-मिस्र-व-रूमा सब मिट गए जहाँ से
अब तक मगर है बाक़ी नाम-व-निशाँ हमारा
कुछ बात है कि हस्ती मिटती नहीं हमारी
सदियों रहा है दुश्मन दौर-ए-ज़माँ हमारा
इक़्बाल! कोई महरम अपना नहीं जहाँ में
मालूम क्या किसी को दर्द-ए-निहाँ हमारा!
Important-:
"
मज़्हब नहीं सिखाता आपस में बैर रखना
हिन्दी हैं हम, वतन है हिन्दोसिताँ हमारा"
this is we who always fight for our religion but religion never told us to for it. and no religion is best all are same.
Exactly it is the Indian mindset. Happy with being filthy, and ready to scrounge, rip/off anyone for an extra penny. The basic Indian mentality template is sickening and vile. There is no honesty and word - of - mouth. This has aggravated manifold with the advent of mobiles and e-systems. Where one can BS much more. India lives and runs on BS.
I do not see this happening in Japan anymore. The black discrimination is over in America. Yes, they were Jim Crowed for a while after the bill was passed, but they are free citizens now. Royalty is over in Europe. Is the caste system over here...? It is in fact getting worse...! It is a polarization metric for elections...!
We are going backwards at a similar rate.
What you saying. They had to restart after the bomb.
viva1986
Explorer
I surely have heard of the word conscience, but the way you are bringing it here, seems to be like it really works but in actual it doesn't. Atleast not now a days. See talking about honest people, we both know that there is scarcity of honest people in our country. Theoretically you are right about "getting eaten at conscience" but practically it is not the truth. Either the Honest people give up their life for the cause or they just move on with the society leaving all the conscience behind. People today do not live with burden in their hearts, they live a free life and even if not free but without any tensions regarding corruption.
I say I am corrupt, I say our country is corrupt but even after this I feel like this is the best place I got to live. These are the best people I have with me. And if also I will see my country changing I will go hand in hand, I change myself for good.
blr_p
Oracle
How long would you say this has been the case ?
In UP this time, yes. That's how things work there and if you want to win this seems to be the way to go.
But in other areas less so, this time.
Relative to what. Last year, ten years ago, a century back ?
Was there ever a time when there was a utopia in India and we have regressed since.
if not then can you describe this utopia or ideal that we should be aiming for.
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