PC Peripherals A sensible decision ?

[thetoxicmind]

With a rig that barely manages to handle my display, daily computing and other design related tasks (by today's standards) , I am ready to give it a much needed upgrade (a small boost). Not really aware of the current hardware scene but I aware of the basics. :detect2:
So here I am, requesting the best folks around, to help me make a sensible decision.

Current rig :

AMD X2 3600+ , MSI K9AGM2-L , Kingston 1GB Ram 66Mhz , CM 460 , Dell E228WFP

Willing to spend :

6-7K? :S

Options I'm considering :

Upgrade the CPU? Upgrade the RAM? Get a GFX card (still haven't got one :ashamed ?

Notes :

*For the GFX card, think 512mb DDR3 should do
*RAM, I'd like 800Mhz ones
* using WinXP, so not looking at 4gb of ram
*CPU, should be fully compatible with my mobo.
*a config that won't bottleneck the performance.
* I don't OC.

Usage :

Movies , Mod-Avg Gaming , Photoshop & rel.tools , Internet Surfing

The Bottom line :

I hardly upgrade my PC, instead try to make do with what I have.
Would be great if it could provide decent performance and last for a min. of 2yrs without being a bother.

I will be making the purchases in Chennai, also open to ordering online, given the circumstances.
Not open to second hand purchases though.

Over to you.

TIA.

 

[Anubis]

Processor: AMD AthlonII X2-240 - 3k

Motherboard: Biostar A785GE - 3.3k(HD 4200 is a very good IGP. Plays HD with eaze and directX 10.1 complaint)

RAM: Transcend 2GB DDR2 800MHz - 2.1k

Total - 8.4k

The onboard IGP ATI HD 4200 will suffice your needs for now

Can't get any cheaper than this for the performance boost that you want.

 

[Gautham]

EDIT: Anubis got this better than I ever can

[old]I'm no expert with these things, but I think you should go for some RAM. I feel the processor could also do with an upgrade, but that just might be me. A dual-core 1.9GHz should be enough for your purposes (except some intensive gaming maybe). Doesn't your mobo have an on-board graphics module? If so, then you're rig is fine, just get better RAM. (the recent 800MHz RAM modules).

Again, I'm no expert, just giving my 2 cents [/old]

 

[pr0ing]

Spend according to this order of priority

RAM>GFX card>Proccesor

Increasing the RAM to 2GB will give you the best visible performance difference.
If you are able to sell the single 1GB stick and get 2x1GB 800MHz you can also take advantage of the dual channel support of the motherboard.
The differences in MHz and DDR rates show up prominently in benchmarks but in real-world performance, you can choose to ignore them if the 800MHz sticks are too costly.
If your budget permits increase the RAM to 3 or 4GB instead of 2GB and dont care about DDR or frequency.

Spending on the GFX card is totally depending on your usage. If you are not much into gaming you can easily manage with buying a passive cooled ATI 4650 which will support you monitor for HD video viewing and basic gaming. If you need more performance, you can opt for an ATI 4670/nVidia 9600 GT/ATI 4850 depending on how much you spent on the RAM.

Choosing a processor depends solely on how much money you have left after spending on the above two. Since you won't be needing the current processor, check what you can get by selling it in the market and if you can buy a better one the get it.

I'd suggest spending all the amount on RAM (4GB) and GFX card(depending on usage) and using the current processor. If you are not happy with the performance you can get a new processor in a couple months. If you are willing to buy 2nd hand processor keep checking the market threads, lots of good deals.

current prices from deltapage
1GB DDR2 800MHz - 1050Rs
2GB DDR2 800MHz - 1975Rs

from itwares.com (these might not be the latest)
Palit 9600GT 512MB DDR3 256Bit - 4700

Sapphire HD 4650 512MB DDR2 128Bit - 3250

Sapphire HD 4670 512MB DDR3 4600
Sapphire HD 4670 1GB DDR3 4875

Sapphire HD 4850 512MB DDR3 HDMI 6900

you can also check prices from Amarbir here
ATi ? Lynx-The Electronics & Computer Superstore

 

[Anubis]

Spend according to this order of priority

RAM>GFX card>Proccesor

Increasing the RAM to 2GB will give you the best visible performance difference.
If you are able to sell the single 1GB stick and get 2x1GB 800MHz you can also take advantage of the dual channel support of the motherboard.
The differences in MHz and DDR rates show up prominently in benchmarks but in real-world performance, you can choose to ignore them if the 800MHz sticks are too costly.
If your budget permits increase the RAM to 3 or 4GB instead of 2GB and dont care about DDR or frequency.

Spending on the GFX card is totally depending on your usage. If you are not much into gaming you can easily manage with buying a passive cooled ATI 4650 which will support you monitor for HD video viewing and basic gaming. If you need more performance, you can opt for an ATI 4670/nVidia 9600 GT/ATI 4850 depending on how much you spent on the RAM.

Choosing a processor depends solely on how much money you have left after spending on the above two. Since you won't be needing the current processor, check what you can get by selling it in the market and if you can buy a better one the get it.

I'd suggest spending all the amount on RAM (4GB) and GFX card(depending on usage) and using the current processor. If you are not happy with the performance you can get a new processor in a couple months. If you are willing to buy 2nd hand processor keep checking the market threads, lots of good deals.

current prices from deltapage
1GB DDR2 800MHz - 1050Rs
2GB DDR2 800MHz - 1975Rs

from itwares.com (these might not be the latest)
Palit 9600GT 512MB DDR3 256Bit - 4700

Sapphire HD 4650 512MB DDR2 128Bit - 3250

Sapphire HD 4670 512MB DDR3 4600
Sapphire HD 4670 1GB DDR3 4875

Sapphire HD 4850 512MB DDR3 HDMI 6900

you can also check prices from Amarbir here
ATi ? Lynx-The Electronics & Computer Superstore

Dual channel 2x1gb and 2gb stick offers same performance

 

[thetoxicmind]

First off, appreciate your inputs.

Now for some replies :

8k fixed or can extend to 10k ?

U'll keep this for 2-3 years i assume.

So for a DDR3 rig, u need to up the stakes a little ?

1. Yes, atleast 2 years or close.
2. Not considering DDR3 for now.
3. 8K or LESS is the idea.

Processor: AMD AthlonII X2-240 - 3k
Motherboard: Biostar A785GE - 3.3k(HD 4200 is a very good IGP. Plays HD with eaze and directX 10.1 complaint)
RAM: Transcend 2GB DDR2 800MHz - 2.1k
Total - 8.4k

The onboard IGP ATI HD 4200 will suffice your needs for now

Can't get any cheaper than this for the performance boost that you want.

That seems like a nice config but
1. It exceeds my budget
2. wasn't planning to change mobo

EDIT: Anubis got this better than I ever can

[old]I'm no expert with these things, but I think you should go for some RAM. I feel the processor could also do with an upgrade, but that just might be me. A dual-core 1.9GHz should be enough for your purposes (except some intensive gaming maybe). Doesn't your mobo have an on-board graphics module? If so, then you're rig is fine, just get better RAM. (the recent 800MHz RAM modules).

Again, I'm no expert, just giving my 2 cents [/old]

I'm actually squeezing performance out of the onboard x1200 chipset, for the 22" monitor. Not to mention, it eating away 256-384mb of my RAM.

 

[Anubis]

First off, appreciate your inputs.

Now for some replies :

1. Yes, atleast 2 years or close.

2. Not considering DDR3 for now.

3. 8K or LESS is the idea.

That seems like a nice config but

1. It exceeds my budget

2. wasn't planning to change mobo

I'm actually squeezing performance out of the onboard x1200 chipset, for the 22" monitor. Not to mention, it eating away 256-384mb of my RAM.

You won't need to buy gfx now.

The onboard IGP ATI HD 4200 will suffice your needs for now

HD 4200 is a very good IGP. Plays HD with eaze and directX 10.1 complaint

So for just 1k more you are getting an upgrade from your old onboard igp.

It really can't get any cheaper than this for the performance boost ( in CPU, RAM and GPU ) that you want.

CPU ( New ) + Mobo ( New ) + GFX ( New igp from onboard card by spending just 1k more )

Think it in this way that you won't have to buy a gfx immediately .

Why don't you sell you old rig ? You'll get 1k - 3k for it

 

[thetoxicmind]

Spending on the GFX card is totally depending on your usage. If you are not much into gaming you can easily manage with buying a passive cooled ATI 4650 which will support you monitor for HD video viewing and basic gaming. If you need more performance, you can opt for an ATI 4670/nVidia 9600 GT/ATI 4850 depending on how much you spent on the RAM.

Thought the 4670 was THE standard, never considered a lower option

So considering my usage, will the 4650 be good enough?

Choosing a processor depends solely on how much money you have left after spending on the above two. Since you won't be needing the current processor, check what you can get by selling it in the market and if you can buy a better one the get it.

That's acceptable.

I'd suggest spending all the amount on RAM (4GB) and GFX card(depending on usage) and using the current processor. If you are not happy with the performance you can get a new processor in a couple months. If you are willing to buy 2nd hand processor keep checking the market threads, lots of good deals.

But if I need to change the proccy later, the mobo and ram have to change accordingly. that would make more sense in the future right?

For the RAM, 2GB*1 800Mhz is on my mind.

Palit 9600GT 512MB DDR3 256Bit - 4700

Sapphire HD 4650 512MB DDR2 128Bit - 3250

Sapphire HD 4670 512MB DDR3 4600

Sapphire HD 4670 1GB DDR3 4875

Sapphire HD 4850 512MB DDR3 HDMI 6900

Going by the above recommendations, is there a 256-bit, DDR3 based, 512MB 4650 ?

You won't need to buy gfx now.

The onboard IGP ATI HD 4200 will suffice your needs for now

HD 4200 is a very good IGP. Plays HD with eaze and directX 10.1 complaint

So for just 1k more you are getting an upgrade from your old onboard igp.

It really can't get any cheaper than this for the performance boost ( in CPU, RAM and GPU ) that you want.

CPU ( New ) + Mobo ( New ) + GFX ( New igp from onboard card by spending just 1k more )

Think it in this way that you won't have to buy a gfx immediately .

I've been on onboard graphics right from the start and it's only now I feel the frustration. So was hoping to switch to a discrete GFX card.

Your suggestion is a viable option though.

 

[Gautham]

But if I need to change the proccy later, the mobo and ram have to change accordingly.

AFAIK, not really. Go for the best RAM your mobo can support, and even your newer mobos will support them. And 2GB 800MHz is a good choice. If you have more RAM (like 4GB), you can allocate a lot to your graphics module,still leaving you with plenty. I have 2 of those 2GB RAMs, making 4 GB. Of course, my 32-bit windows or my 32-bit Ubuntu only detect about 3GB, but hey, future-proofing ftw! RAM is a cheap and appreciable way of increasing performance.

 

[Darshan]

U have a decent enough proccy man... It will be enough for your usage ---> "Movies , Mod-Avg Gaming , Photoshop & rel.tools , Internet Surfing"

I suggest you to just upgrade ur GFX Card and add some more RAM. Since u will be using Win XP, add another 2GB stick. That will make it 3GB. Decent enough to last you another 2 years...

 

[thetoxicmind]

AFAIK, not really. Go for the best RAM your mobo can support, and even your newer mobos will support them. And 2GB 800MHz is a good choice. If you have more RAM (like 4GB), you can allocate a lot to your graphics module,still leaving you with plenty. I have 2 of those 2GB RAMs, making 4 GB. Of course, my 32-bit windows or my 32-bit Ubuntu only detect about 3GB, but hey, future-proofing ftw! RAM is a cheap and appreciable way of increasing performance.

1. Best RAM is DDR 800Mhz (1.8v)

2. Being a little nit-picky here, with vista to loathe and Win7 to anticipate(mean full driver support and compatibility), I'm left with good old XP 32-bit. It not supporting 4GB of ram is a deterrent for me choosing the same.

Future-proof, well , later I can always update the rig altogether.

U have a decent enough proccy man... It will be enough for your usage ---> "Movies , Mod-Avg Gaming , Photoshop & rel.tools , Internet Surfing"

I suggest you to just upgrade ur GFX Card and add some more RAM. Since u will be using Win XP, add another 2GB stick. That will make it 3GB. Decent enough to last you another 2 years...

With proccys these days, clocking 4ghz and the likes, thought 1.9ghz was a bummer, esp. for cpu intensive apps of today.

Adding a 2gb stick is an option but that will have to be a 2GB 667Mhz stick, which in turn brings up the question of "3GB 667Mhz Vs. 2GB 800Mhz Dual Channel" ??

 

[DarkAngel]

Sell your RAM. You will surely make some 500 bucks. Add that to the budget.
Get a 2GB DDRII 800MHz Stick - 2k
For daily use there is no notable performance difference btw a single channel and a dual channel.
Then add a 1GB DDRIII HD4670 ~ 4.5k. Has that extra VRAM. Also good for VRAM intensive games like GTAIV.
Total: 6.5k and you are done for 2 more years. I think you wont be needing more for the apps that you use.
Still not satisfied. You have 2k left. Sell you proccy for ~1-1.5k. Get a new Athlon 5200+/5400+/5600+. Chk this review. They still pack a punch
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/value-cpu-roundup.html

 

[madnav]

considering that you are upgrading to serve your purpose for 2yrs and not just to spend the cash, it would be advicable to keep the board you have.

it already supports DDR2 800MHz and has a pci-e x16 slot.

all you need to get is HD4670 and a 2GB 800MHz stick for now if you consider gaming.

If gaming is not important and all you need is a display with Full HD capability then settle for Athlon2 240 X2 + Biostar TA790GXBE + 2GB DDR2 800MHz after selling current combo.

read about people not being happy with Full HD playback on 785G chipset on TE thus suggesting 790GX

OR if you want a cost effective yet scalable solution along with a gpu under 10k then look for

E5200/5300 + Gigabyte G31 + 2GB DDR2 800MHz + HD4670

(because this cpu+board can OC to considerable amount without having to spend more initially..that is if you require it 1-2yrs down the road)

should come close to 10k after selling your current cpu board and memory.

 

[sabby]

Adding a 2gb stick is an option but that will have to be a 2GB 667Mhz stick, which in turn brings up the question of "3GB 667Mhz Vs. 2GB 800Mhz Dual Channel" ??

Frankly, from my personal experience, 667MHz doesn't lag behind the 800MHz in regular experience or gaming, not that you can notice at least.

You can choose anyone from the following options :

1. Sell your CPU+Mobo -> should fetch you some ~ 2.5k and makes your budget 10.5k.

a) Get a decent AM2+ mobo like Gigabyte / Asus (nVidia 8100/AMD 740G) for ~2.2k. Then get Athlon II X2 240 + 4670 1GB for around 7.5k. Get an used/new 1GB 667MHz stick.

b) Get the popular E5300+Gigabyte-G31+ 1GB 4670 + 1GB 667MHz RAM

2. I heard a lot about CPU being not the cause of bottleneck for higher resolution. Although my friend got like 5fps boost in CRYSIS while OCing his E6300 (old C2D) from 1.66GHz to 2.2Ghz. Unfortunately the reviews show that your mobo is not good for OCing and even you mentioned that you won't OC. So I'd suggest you to ask the graphic experts like Shripad/Harshal etc. to confirm the bottle-necking of a 1.9Ghz CPU for a 22" monitor. If the said fact is r8 (i.e. 1.9GHz is no prob for 22"), you can freely opt for 4850 + 1GB RAM.

Notes: 2GB RAM should be enough for your requirements I think. I myself using 2GB and play all games at ultra settings. No problem at all. Same is the experience of my other 2 friends.

 

[sato1986]

Here's my input.

My friend has got a Athlon x2 3200+ and has used it with a 8800GT without any much bottleneck issues. he ran GRID and got 60+ fps on ultra settings when running at 1024x768. Also to note, he has only 1GB ram. He runs XP (obvious OS for mid-low end configs)

And AFAIK and also suggested by others, CPU does not matter when you increase the resolution. GPU does.

So im pretty confident that no1 can beat the performance of the following configuration in the same price:

Zotac 9800GT 512MB DDR3 : Rs. 5200 (For 22", big video memory is NOT worth at all, benchmarks can prove it) -> gaming gains HUGE advantage here, with movies and internet surfing totally offloaded from CPU. Leaves good room for coming years of high visuals / games.

Transcend DDR2 667Mhz/800Mhz RAM 2GB stick: Rs. 2000 (Speed does NOT matter, quantity does, as thats the rule for PS) -> Total 3GB ram will give PS a good boost.

Usage in mind:

HD16GB or more Movies , Mod-Avg Gaming at native resolution for next 2 years , Photoshop & rel.tools , Internet Surfing

Total cost:

Rs. 7200 (3GB config) / Rs. 6700 (2GB single stick config)

Reason for chosen config:

Higher RAM than suggested wont be efficiently used by CPU or OS.

Higher GPU than suggested wont be supported by PSU or maybe CPU.

Higher CPU than suggested will steal the budget for high-end GPU without valuable improvement.

 

[thetoxicmind]

@Karthik007 , sabby , madnav , sato1986

Appreciate your inputs !

So, after giving your posts a read, here are my thoughts :

1. Although the prospect of changing the system exists, I'm not up for it. My current config was the result of trying to change the config on a budget meant for simply updating it.So, I've decided to simply update my existing hardware.

2. About my mobo, yes its pretty decent and no it doesn't support OC'n(don't need it). That said, in addition to the previous statement, I'd like to keep it.

3. Sato's example of the proccy not being a bottleneck is a relief but having read quite a few reviews on the 4670 and similar cards, suggest otherwise. If someone can give me a solid verdict(the gfx experts?) on the same, I'd be happy to stick to my proccy else I should consider upgrading.

Something I didn't mention earlier, I do a lot of multi-tasking !

4. Alright, so no noticeable difference between 667mhz and 800mhz sticks. In that case, I'll consider getting an additional 2GB 667Mhz stick.

Quick Q, given that my mobo supports upto 800mhz(FSB), do my 667mhz sticks actually run at that frequency or lesser?

5. Suggesting more options for the GFX card isn't really helping as I'm having a tough time picking the right 4670 card.

So if I can get a majority ruling on a particular kind and brand? a brand that has a proven track record??

Your inputs please...

 

[madnav]

what is your rated cpu speed?

it's listed 1.9GHz at AMD

it must be in 200 x 9.5 config.

for 667MHz, 1900/667 = 2.8... = 3(higher integral value)

so actual mem speed for 667 at cpu=1900MHz will be

1900/3 = 633.33MHz

more details about the calculations Here

for HD4670, its a decent card.

games like call of duty, even mw2... codemasters grid, are maxed @ fullHD on my friends machine having E2180 clocked 2.5GHz, HD4670 and 3GB memory.

if you are buying 2GB stick, buy 800MHz one, it will downclock to 667 (or whatever in relation with your cpu speed) plus your will still have a faster stick when you wish to sell it or even upgrade the existing 1GB stick.

The cpu at 1.9Ghz would be a bottleneck imo, and if you are concerned about multti taskin then do consider a tricore or a quadcore from athlon series.

 

[thetoxicmind]

what is your rated cpu speed?
it's listed 1.9GHz at AMD

it must be in 200 x 9.5 config.
for 667MHz, 1900/667 = 2.8... = 3(higher integral value)
so actual mem speed for 667 at cpu=1900MHz will be
1900/3 = 633.33MHz
more details about the calculations Here
for HD4670, its a decent card.
games like call of duty, even mw2... codemasters grid, are maxed @ fullHD on my friends machine having E2180 clocked 2.5GHz, HD4670 and 3GB memory.

if you are buying 2GB stick, buy 800MHz one, it will downclock to 667 (or whatever in relation with your cpu speed) plus your will still have a faster stick when you wish to sell it or even upgrade the existing 1GB stick.

The cpu at 1.9Ghz would be a bottleneck imo, and if you are concerned about multti taskin then do consider a tricore or a quadcore from athlon series.

Yeah, proccy rated at 1.9Ghz.
Would it still be a bottleneck, if I were to consider a 667Mhz 2GB stick and a HD 4650? :ashamed:

I can probably upgrade the CPU to something compatible with the existing mobo.

 

[madnav]

still will be bottlenecked unless you plan to OC to 2.4-2.5GHz or something. mobo maynot have options to change FSB as you mentioned but there are other means to tweak from within windows, you can always give it a try before changing cpu.

i would really put emphasis on buying 800MHz 2GB stick since both 800MHz and 667MHz cost the same and you would loose nothing. (the 800MHz ones come with JDEC profiles for 667MHz too)

your board can practically support am2+ and am3 processors, although the NB and HT frequencies will be limited to 1GHz (2000MT/s)

so in any case if you would be buying HD4670 and 2GB stick then just buy those for now, see how you machine fairs with it, maybe a little OC on cu to extract the appropriate amount of juice, and if still not satisfied then change cpu/cpu+board as per your convenience

provided your current cpu board would fetch around 2.5k, overall upgrate will be worth it imo.

PS: i do not know of any 4650 with GDDR3 in market. provided you have a full HD display, it wont be justice to your overall setup.

 

[thetoxicmind]

still will be bottlenecked unless you plan to OC to 2.4-2.5GHz or something. mobo maynot have options to change FSB as you mentioned but there are other means to tweak from within windows, you can always give it a try before changing cpu.

i would really put emphasis on buying 800MHz 2GB stick since both 800MHz and 667MHz cost the same and you would loose nothing. (the 800MHz ones come with JDEC profiles for 667MHz too)

your board can practically support am2+ and am3 processors, although the NB and HT frequencies will be limited to 1GHz (2000MT/s)

so in any case if you would be buying HD4670 and 2GB stick then just buy those for now, see how you machine fairs with it, maybe a little OC on cu to extract the appropriate amount of juice, and if still not satisfied then change cpu/cpu+board as per your convenience

provided your current cpu board would fetch around 2.5k, overall upgrate will be worth it imo.

PS: i do not know of any 4650 with GDDR3 in market. provided you have a full HD display, it wont be justice to your overall setup.

1. Sorry, neither do I want to overclock nor does my mobo support it.

2. Ordered a Kingston 2GB DDR2 800Mhz stick.

3. If required, the best suited proccy from the below link: MSI Global ? Computer, Laptop, Notebook, Desktop, Mainboard, Graphics and more ?

4. For the gfx card : SAPPHIRE HD 4670 512MB GDDR3 PCI-E , good deal?

TIA.