BABA power

[Arun1]

The fact that the baba lost weight during the 30 day experiment should have clearly put an end to this debate.

The sole purpose of fat stored is to help our body at times like this when food is unavailable.Why did the fat which wasn't needed by him for the 70 years he was fasting suddenly disappear when he was put just 30 days under supervision.

The answer is right in front of you only you chose to ignore it and look in vain for a more supernatural explanation.This guy won't last 3 months without food,less than 3 weeks if it weren't for his daily "gargling" ritual,let alone 70 years.

 

[tarey_g]

The fact that the baba lost weight during the 30 day experiment should have clearly put an end to this debate.

Yes because he was put in to observation, without doing that and rejecting any possibilities of such phenomenon would have only helped in spreading false rumors. That's why, scientific study is essential no matter how much a phenomenon disapproves scientific laws.
That's the reason why websites like PopSci also published this article.

 

[johnie1]

tarey_g,

the question is simple.do you believe that a human being aka baba can survive for 70 years without food and water.yes or no?

I cannot get into my head how a man can live for 70 years without food and water.I simply cannot.

I do not think that mankind has even scratched 1 percent of the unknown stuff.But to think that a man can live without food it is just out of my comprehension.

And the sad thing is that you are the one who is talking like someone from religious community who is not ready to accept that there are possibilities other than what they were educated about.

Education has taught me to think.Not regurgitate the facts which i have learnt.The supposition that what the baba says is true goes against everything that i know of and can think of.I am not rigid in my beliefs but there are certain fundamental things i believe.One of them is man needs food to survive.If he does not need food then the whole life we are living is a lie.Man needs air to breathe.If he cannot breathe he dies.As descartes said I exist therfore I am .I know I eat food to survive and live.Its the same with others.

What you say and how you put it fails the definition of science enthusiasts who are eager to know more other than keeping the mindset confined to previous findings/laws.

bro this is not science.Its hoax/fraud/false claim.

but still if you want to believe its up to you.

cheers.

 

[Lord Nemesis]

No one believes in the stuff here until its proven, but we believe in miracles of science, his so called BABA power can have a scientific reason unfolded. I don't want to be confined within the existing laws of science prohibiting me to hope for even better explanation of things.

Exactly what I am trying to convey and that is called open minded thinking as compared to closed minded thinking which confines people to what they currently know/believe and they think that anything they can't explain is improbable/impossible. Considering something beyond the limits of known science does not equate to superstition by any standard.

In this present case I have never ruled out the possibility that this particular baba is a fraud as I mentioned that in my initial posts itself, but at the same time I would not rule out the possibility of a man (be he a baba or not) surviving without conventional food. Ultimately what a human being or any other organism needs in the end is energy. Each species in existence has gradually evolved with various means of gathering energy. Even humans have evolved from other life forms. So why it so hard to consider a possibility that a certain human specimen mutated/evolved and obtained the ability to obtain energy in some alternate form?

johnie1 keeps pushing the law of conservation of energy as evidence to refute this possibility, but in contract it only strengthens it. We have mass and energy in various forms all around us and in fact even within us. So why does the mass have to be in the form of roti, rice and vegetables etc. Provided with the right mechanism, an organism should be able to gather energy from alternate means as well. A human already has many complex organs that are hard to replicate and not even fully understood. So why is it so hard to consider the possibility that a certain specimen evolved beyond current limitations. There are many anomalies/mysteries in life that scientists have found to be true, but cannot explain. For example can any one explain the reasons for spontaneous human combustion. There are considerable number of well documented cases and scientists have even proposed various theories to explain it, but a lot is still unknown.

Another question, can there be life on planet like Pluto? A closed minded thinker like Mr Johnie1 here would quickly refute the theory saying that its impossible. He would state reasons like no oxygen, no atmosphere, extreme climate etc while I say why not? Closed minded people limit themselves to whats known to science today like carbon based life forms and dependence on oxygen or atmosphere. I say why can't there be sustaining life around other elements even ones we do not find on earth and hence do not know anything about.

the question is simple.do you believe that a human being aka baba can survive for 70 years without food and water.yes or no?

His being a baba has nothing to do it. If the question is whether a human can survive without food and water, then yes I for one wouldn't find it improbable. And no it has nothing to do with religion or blind faith. There can any number of perfectly scientific reasons for that as I stated twice already.

I cannot get into my head how a man can live for 70 years without food and water.I simply cannot. I do not think that mankind has even scratched 1 percent of the unknown stuff.But to think that a man can live without food it is just out of my comprehension.

That is because you cannot think beyond the limitations of what you know today as science. Simply put, you have blind faith in the current state of science and believe it religiously. This kind of thinking is not limited to you either. I see it around me all the time even at office. Asks questions like Can you come up with an alternative approach/algorithm/design/solution for this? Can you find ways to optimize this? and most people would respond no, that is impossible and state a long list of restrictions that come from their own knowledge while a few open minded people think beyond those limitations and out of the box and come up alternative theories, solutions. In fact the difference in thinking is what separate the great scientific minds we know from the typical guy who read his science textbooks thoroughly. Both have considerable knowledge, but one thinks only within the limitations of his knowledge while the other thinks of possibilities beyond those limitations.

 

[blr_p]

Science is never exact or accurate. What you know as the absolute truth today many get deprecated by a new theory and proof tomorrow.

I'm not sure what to make of this statement. How to characterise a body of knowledge as exact or accurate :huh:

Maybe it would be clearer to say that science is ever evolving. It never stands still, so its neither fixed or rigid. Theories can be overturned with better knowledge or means of measurement.

There is also another source of confusion when we talk about words in science that have a general accepted meaning in english. A hypothesis in science is what we refer to as a theory in english and a theory in science is as close as you can get to a fact in english.

A theory in science is not the same as a theory in english.

Science is more about being able to test for a theory and more importantly being able to reproduce it. Once that's done to a suffcient extent we have a reproducible phenomenon. Then ppl will try to come up with ideas to try and explain that phenomenon. Then that hypothesis will be tested and verified for whether it can make predictions in differing environments but with a certain similarity to the hypothesis. If it achieves that then the hypothesis becomes a 'working' hypothesis. There's still a way to go before it becomes a theory, more experiements research that build a body of knowledge as well as supporting evidence. In the end its the evidence in favour of the theory that makes it or breaks it.

So, what's required here for this to be called science is that similar tests be conducted on this individual in several reputed institutions and then maybe we have something interesting.

One result in one place means nothing and as kippu pointed out its not even certain who & where these tests were conducted in the first place.

This is tabloid news after all

It won't surprise me that a human being can go without food for several weeks but years! No thank you.
Orwell had rightly said Omission is the greatest form of lie.
The last time he did this,the kept him without food for 30 days,what many of the "fanboy" news articles failed to mention was that he was provided with water.Even in this article they make a passing mention that he was provided water for bathing and gargling,yeah right.

Right, there is this simple rule of thumb, its about the number 3

3 seconds without air
3 days without water
3 weeks without food

You could exceed them but you'd be beating averages.

 

[johnie1]

Lord Nemesis,

thanks for the insight.

now my question is this.is it possible for a human being to survive without food and water for 70 years.simple question.yes or no?.

Second question.Is it even in the realm of possiblity that man can survive without food and water for the above mentioned period of 70 years?.yes or no?

by food i mean a means of converting mass into energy for survival.Is there any alternate source.Please do.Any space age theory will also do fine.

if you answer yes to the second question would like to know how?.

I have already told you that energy cannot be created nor destroyed.Can you disprove this.Please do because then you will definitely win a nobel prize and i can say with pride that i argued with lord nemesis.Any other possibilty is also fine.Please I beg of you disprove it.You can solve all the worlds problem energy problems,make the earth a greener place,eradicate poverty man the list is endless.

really not interested in pluto or neptune or aliens.really am not.I live on this earth and if something can be proven,i can accept it even if i am wrong.I do not hold all the answers and will never have all the answers but am eager to learn.

saw ur addendum.since you say it is possible i am happy to accept that I am closed minded and you do think out of the box.There is a lot of difference between fantasy and reality.

anyways each to his own.I truly hope that you will put your fantasies to work and make this earth our small blue planet a better place.millions go without food/clean drinking water.I hope your solutions will make them happy and indeed it will make me happy.

no further comments.

cheers

 

[Gannu]

LOL I'm amazed to see some of the replies in the thread. David Blaine has numerous endurance feats under his name. Just like the Houdini of the olden days. Why wouldn't someone want to take up their names here?

 

[blr_p]

Going 2 weeks without fluids means you die.

And no, Blaine has not managed to pull that particular feat off yet but our yogi here seems to have done so.

When ppl go on hunger strikes they dont take food but usually have water. They wont last several weeks otherwise.

 

[Lord Nemesis]

I have already told you that energy cannot be created nor destroyed.Can you disprove this.

First things first, I don't think you clearly understand Law of conservation of energy and and how it was changed by Einsteins theory of relativity.

I would suggest you read it up at

Conservation of energy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It simply states that energy cannot be created nor destroyed, but only its state can change. Einstein theory further stated that mass and energy are the same and change forms. So energy can be converted to mass and mass converted to energy, but when you combine everything in a closed system into mass or energy units, it will remain the same.

So I don't see any particular reason why this theory does not told true with the case we are talking about. Ok a guy is not taking food or water, true, so you are assuming that there is no intake of mass to be converted to energy, but have you considered the amount of gases and other matter a human inhales and exhales after just absorbing a bit of oxygen. What if an human develops an organ that converts those extra gases into energy instead of exhaling most of it? Then there also other forms of abundant energy like the sun light and all the forms of radiation hitting the earth. A human body already handles something as complicated as converting energy to mass and vice versa, so is it so improbable for it to absorb raw energy in alternate forms. lastly the amount of energy required by an organism is proportional to the amount he spends. So when you consume mass, its converted to energy required by the body. If there is excess energy its again converted back to mass and preserved by the body. If a human is low on activity his energy requirement is also low. If he has the ability to get that energy from alternate means other than food, he will still survive and he gets more than what he needs, he may even put on mass. If the body can convert that burger into energy and fat, can't it evolve into a form that can combine Hydrogen and oxygen to form water. The sun is proof of how much energy can be derived from a simple gas such as hydrogen. The only hurdle I see is the mechanism to convert/absorb alternative forms of mass and energy, but then that is what evolution is for. Of course its not an accurate theory and there are loop holes, but its at least a theory that can explain such a phenomena without going into the realms of the divine.

saw ur addendum.since you say it is possible i am happy to accept that I am closed minded and you do think out of the box

I did not mean it in an offensive way as you seen to have taken it. Its the ground truth that there is a difference in our ways of thinking. Would it make you happy if I said that a majority of people are like that only and they like to operate only with in the limits of their knowledge.

There is a lot of difference between fantasy and reality.

bah.. If that is how you want to put it, don't forget that when it comes to science, technology and evolution, yesterdays fantasy is today reality and today's fantasy is tomorrows reality. We wouldn't have a fraction of the innovations and discoveries we have today if the the great minds responsible for them had put a full stop to their fantasies and out of the way thinking.

 

[blr_p]

I'd think the lack of fluid intake would be a much more immediate problem than any conversion of energy in this case. Fact that a supposed neurologist mentions energy, makes me wonder why a neuroligist would ever say such a thing.

Body's got reserves it can burn off but fluid is needed to keep cells in working order.

Why do you think dehydration can be so lethal.

Any of the medics here will confirm that.

 

[johnie1]

Lord Nemesis,

ok let me respond to this.

So energy can be converted to mass and mass converted to energy, but when you combine everything in a closed system into mass or energy units, it will remain the same.

do you understand what a closed system is?.

It means where the mass and energy are constant and there is no leakage of energy and therefore no loss in mass.

Tell me how can a human being be a closed system?.

According to you let us say human being does not eat/drink.Does he not breathe air?.Is that not expunging energy.If energy is expunged then is not mass proportionally decreased?.If mass is decreased then can a human being survive?.Mass has to be built up.How do you propose to build up mass.Through gas?.Through sunlight?.

Without mass he cannot create energy and he will die.So your theory does not hold true.

How can this be possible Mr out of the box thinking Lord Nemesis?

Look at the human body.Does it not have a mouth to eat food.Does it not have nose to breathe air.What are you thinking of.Creating a new body without mouth and nose.

Human body is made up of atleast of 70 percent water.Just making your tongue wet drains some of that water into your body to be passed out as urine.How do you propose to replenish this?

No water,No food and you say a human being is able to live for 70 years.

The question is not what if?.A million years from now humans might have mutated into machines and what not.We are talking of the present.A present where humans breathe air and eat food/drink water to survive.Right now at present what that baba claims is false and beyond the realms of possibilty.

It is not out of the box thinking and closed minds here.It is the wisdom to see what is possible and what is not possible.

 

[janitha]

Even more known is the case of Hira Ratan Manek, also living on sun rays, who if I am not wrong resides at Kozhikode in Kerala but originally from Gujarat. Had read in newspapers long back.
Hira Ratan Manek - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BTW, I have always been an agnostic.

 

[blr_p]

That wiki link debunks much of the claims.

 

[Lord Nemesis]

A human body is not a closed system, and that is why I am saying that proving or disproving Law of conversation of energy has nothing to do with this case even if you are applying those energy to mass conversion rules here.

Since its not a closed system, as long as the body intakes more energy than it exerts, it should survive. Theoretically mass can be generated as long as the energy is in excess. We already know that a human who eats and drinks can consume an amount of mass that converts into more energy than he exerts and consequently that energy gets converted into mass again. So the question is whether the alternate sources of mass/energy converts into more energy than the body exerts. Considering its an open system, why is it not theoretically possible.

The main problem I see is the requirement of fluids by the body which is again a current human limitation that can only be overcome though evolution and I was never talking about a typical unmutated human being able to do that feat.

I understand that there are serious limitations, but I don't see why its theoretically impossible.

.A present where humans breathe air and eat food/drink water to survive.Right now at present what that baba claims is false and beyond the realms of possibilty.

It is not out of the box thinking and closed minds here.It is the wisdom to see what is possible and what is not possible.

See the difference between you and me is that if someone comes and says that he can survive without food and water, I would rather see it proved either day and in case he does, I would accept it even if its against everything that existing science tells me or at the very least think of ways of how it can be possible, while you would rather slam it down as falsehood without even a hint of a doubt based on your so called wisdom centered around a specific frame of an ever evolving science (Just like people who proposed alternate theories where ridiculed/punished by wise men whose knowledge and wisdom told them that earth is flat or that its the center of the universe)

We are two different people with different ways of looking at things and my way of thinking has been very beneficial for me, and you seem to be pretty satisfied with yours. So just leave it at that.

 

[kippu]

theoretically if we flap our hands fast and hard enough , we can even fly ..

 

[johnie1]

theoretically if we flap our hands fast and hard enough , we can even fly ..

That really cracked me up kippu.

btwn Lord Nemesis I have found a youtube link.He claims he can convert sunlight into energy and was shown to me by janitha.Maybe if you can collaborate with him this theory can be put into practice.

This is the link.

YouTube - Paula Gloria & Hira Ratan Manek "Nourished by Sun Not Food"

cheers and all the best.

addendum to your last addition.

I am in no way ridiculing you.You are great out of the box thinker who wants to prove that it is possible that you can survive without food and water.I am a closed mind type who relies on school books and college texts.But atleast I want to help you.The great Hira Ratan Manek says he is not eating food and creating energy from the sun from some technology called sun gazing.Since I am of closed mind I simply cannot believe another fraud.But since you are out of the box thinker maybe you can use it and create this world a better place.Imagine driving your car/bike without petrol/diesel.Only sun.man that would make life easier.India's debt would go down dramatically.No pollution.No wars like iraq war in which to grab the hydrocarbon resources.No poverty.A world which is greener,peaceful and happy.That is the reason I have given you the link above.Please use it.

cheers

 

[Lord Nemesis]

theoretically if we flap our hands fast and hard enough , we can even fly ..

Why not.. As long as you can build enough thrust and have the means to navigate, If you cannot all you need are the requisite modifications either naturally evolved or artificial. That's how airplanes came by when someone realized that humans are not going to evolve the necessary equipment anytime soon and they tried copying creatures in nature that can. Had they just kept arguing about how flight was impossible for humans instead of trying things out and finding alternative solutions, we wouldn't have airplanes today.

I am in no way ridiculing you.You are great out of the box thinker who wants to prove that it is possible that you can survive without food and water.I am a closed mind type who relies on school books and college texts.But atleast I want to help you.The great Hira Ratan Manek says he is not eating food and creating energy from the sun from some technology called sun gazing.Since I am of closed mind I simply cannot believe another fraud.

Why bother reiterating what I already said. You happy with your way of thinking and I am happy with mine.

Imagine driving your car/bike without petrol/diesel.Only sun.man that would make life easier.

I do believe a lot of research is going in that direction and there have been working prototypes as well. Maybe your science and technology firmware is outdated. Upgrade it to cover the last 10~15 years, otherwise you may end up embarrassing your self by refuting something that today's science knows to be true.

btwn Lord Nemesis I have found a youtube link.He claims he can convert sunlight into energy and was shown to me by janitha.Maybe if you can collaborate with him this theory can be put into practice.

This is the link.

YouTube - Paula Gloria & Hira Ratan Manek "Nourished by Sun Not Food"

Sorry, but did I mention anything about my interest in working on such projects. I only mentioned that I would rather see things proved or disproved and keep myself open to either possibility till that time rather than jumping to conclusions. I already have interesting projects in my own stream and don't worry, open minded thinking helps a lot there.

 

[saumilsingh]

Eh, everything is nourished by the Sun anyway.

And no, I don't believe we would ever stop fighting even if we manage to perfect harvesting the Sun's energy. If anything, everyone would just start shedding blood for equatorial territories in order to maximize exposure.

 

[blr_p]

Why ? --just buy or lease tracts of land to generate electricity.

The problem is how do you ship that energy back to the home state

 

[johnie1]

@lord nemesis,

I do believe a lot of research is going in that direction and there have been working prototypes as well. Maybe your science and technology firmware is outdated. Upgrade it to cover the last 10~15 years, otherwise you may end up embarrassing your self by refuting something that today's science knows to be true.

What i meant was not using solar panels or say electric batteries powered by the sun.What I meant was using the sun directly releated to your mass-energy equation in a closed system.well the meaning got lost.My mistake and I heartily apologise.

Yes I agree my science and technology firmware is outdated.Why only firmware even the software is outdated.Hopefully not the hardware though.Thanks will try to update it.anyways man I am just a seeker of truth.nothing else.I indeed have vast amounts to learn.I am not here to disprove your theory.Like i said each to his own.What you believe I cannot change it.If I am wrong i will try to change.That is how I approach things.Anyways thats neither here nor there.It was a nice discussion.

peace man.

as the jedi knights would say"May the force be with you"

cheers