Badly disappointed with dSLRs - Canon Rebel XT

[superczar]

I recently got hold of a Canon Rebel XT with the default Canon 18-55 mm f3.5-5.6 lens

Disclaimer: Even though I am not a very capable photographer, I have been playing around with Cams for the past several years, and know enough about f stop, shutter speed and ISO settings to get optimal photographs under a given set of circumstances (a lot of credit for this goes to tracerbullet)

So when we are heading out for a trip to Coorg recently, I picked up the Rebel XT, my old trusted warhorse Sony H1 (big zoom point & shoot type,..roughly the same as a Canon S2/S3) and a ultracompact Canon SD870 (IXUS 860) borrowed from Dad

I took tonnes of shots , quite a few of the same subject at the same time...

Some points worth mentioning:

- I never used a tripod

- Most of the shots were taken in Program mode which is not full manual, but not manually automated either (the camera determines the f stop/shutter speeds while the user determines the weighting/focus/ISO/White Balance)

After returning and viewig them in full screen mode (where the image gets resized to your screen size), this is what I noticed:

- Daylight pics were consistently and equally good on all cams

- Poor light shots on the H1 were the best followed by the SD870 and then the Rebel XT(very subjective..I'll not get into technical aspects like noise/barrel distortion/vignetting..let me just say the pics looked better)

- Night shots on the SD870/H1 had more noise but much less shake than the Rebel XT

In short, if i had to discard 1 of these cams on my next rip, I'd willing drop the Rebel XT

WTF at the much touted and expensive dSLR breed...if only this is something I knew earlier

And before someone flames me that my observation is attributable to user error,

I know that given enough time to frame a shot properly and adjust the settings accordingly, the Rebel would have returned better results than the other two...But unless I am a professional photographer doing it for a living..or a g33k more interested in the technical aspects of shooting pics rather than the actual pics, when would I ever have the time to do that while taking photographs?

 

[NinByChoice]

How about some sample pics? Im trying to decide between 3 cameras similar to what you have.

Raghu.

 

[superczar]

My home server seems to be down for some reason...will post back from home tonight

 

[Brendon]

You should try Shutter Priority mode. Best mode to use if you don't want the cam to choose a ridiculously low speed of like 1 sec or so.

 

[superczar]

You should try Shutter Priority mode.

--------------->

I know that given enough time to frame a shot properly and adjust the settings accordingly, the Rebel would have returned better results than the other two...But unless I am a professional photographer doing it for a living..or a g33k more interested in the technical aspects of shooting pics rather than the actual pics, when would I ever have the time to do that while taking photographs?

 

[Kumar]

Well this does demonstrate that a point and shoot is just that-point and shoot.
Thats why you use a PoS for holidays and a D-SLR for photoshoots where you have all the time in your hands to setup the camera correctly and relatively far better shooting conditions.

 

[Chaos]

LOL who said using a DSLR is as easy as a point and shoot :rofl:. If you shoot in full auto or P, especially with the shitty kit lens, all you'll get is rubbish . If you use such a slow lens for shooting at night, all you'll get is blur.

PS: Also I hope you applied a bit of unsharp masking on the images before comparing. SLRs have a low pass filter at the sensor which basically means that out of the box, they'll be way less sharper than a conventional point and shoot.

 

[superczar]

Well this does demonstrate that a point and shoot is just that-point and shoot.

Thats why you use a PoS for holidays and a D-SLR for photoshoots where you have all the time in your hands to setup the camera correctly and relatively far better shooting conditions.

Exactly my point...When do I have the time or the inclination to indulge myself in a photoshoot??? (unless there are some hot chicks willing to pose for a shoot on the beaches of Chehnnnaiiii :rofl: )

So why shouldn't a regular buyer (which means pretty much all of us) simply pick a sub 20K top of the line P&S with IS , good optics and a great sensor?

 

[sydras]

I always say the same thing. DSLR is not for a normal user. My dad had a regular SLR. Many times, during photographing, the pictures did not come at all because of some setting problem. But when it would work, photos were quite good.

Image stabilization(IS) and wide angle are what a home user should look for(zoom also is not important). When you compare with a DSLR, portability is another thing that you gain with a point and shoot.

 

[tracerbullet]

I know that given enough time to frame a shot properly and adjust the settings accordingly, the Rebel would have returned better results than the other two...But unless I am a professional photographer doing it for a living..or a g33k more interested in the technical aspects of shooting pics rather than the actual pics, when would I ever have the time to do that while taking photographs?

Exactly my argument to all those g33k$ who go Z0MG D5LR fu11 fr4m3 5EN$3R d00d!1!!11one

PS: Also I hope you applied a bit of unsharp masking on the images before comparing. SLRs have a low pass filter at the sensor which basically means that out of the box, they'll be way less sharper than a conventional point and shoot.

I always make it a point to either turn of sharpening or set it to the lowest level when I'm shooting.

Anyway, of course SLRs will kick the butt of all consumer/prosumer cameras when used correctly with good lenses. However, their bulk and tediousness of use, are the main reasons why I wouldn't want to carry one along on my treks and here-there expeditions. Whenever there's a house party at my place, I end up using my phonecam or friend's digicam even though my sister's Big Freakin' Camera (Canon EOS 1D Mark II) is lying around trembling, writhing, and moaning to be used. Okay that might have been an overstatement, but you get the point.

 

[superczar]

Canon EOS 1D Mark II

:O

dSLRs have the capability to reward a patient user with amazing results....

but from what I have seen so far (take a look at the photography thread on TE), there are very few users around here who can manage to do that

Tracers' sis excluded from the consideration set, I would guess 99% + of the folks on TE would end up getting better results with a high grade P&S than a dSLR

If you shoot in full auto or P, especially with the shitty kit lens, all you'll get is rubbish . If you use such a slow lens for shooting at night, all you'll get is blur.

Technically, that shitty kit lens is supposed to be of better grade than the lenses on the SD870/H1..isnt it?

Instead of spending more dosh on a IS USM lens and get rewarded with more bulk, I'll rather trust the SD870/H1 for subsequent trips...Unless I spend minutes framing a shot (not possible), I really think hi grade P&S will return bettter results even if I get better lenses..

So until the day the babes come calling for a photoshoot, the dSLR shall stay confined to the cupboard

 

[greenhorn]

I know that given enough time to frame a shot properly and adjust the settings accordingly, the Rebel would have returned better results than the other two...But unless I am a professional photographer doing it for a living..or a g33k more interested in the technical aspects of shooting pics rather than the actual pics, when would I ever have the time to do that while taking photographs?

That arguement works for idiot proof basic cams as well. on a recent trip, two of my friends bought their cams, Both Sony- One was a small, slim but otherwise basic on features model, and the other was an H2

Given that i had only a few minutes to start clicking , i went with the smaller one. Obviously the H2 would have taken better pics, but i wouldnt want to spend my entire road trip reading the manual / exploring the menus, would i

 

[superczar]

Actually the H2 is also a P&S that allows for manual edits

If you set it to Auto or Program mode, it would have performed as well or most prolly better than the chotu one

dSLRs are a different beast altogether though

 

[greenhorn]

think of it from the ordinary users POV. Im sure it wont be that different from the way you feel about dSLR's now

 

[superczar]

Nahi re greeny...

Seriously...the H2 just needs to be switched on, pointed at the subject, press shutter-lock-click

(as long as it is in auto/Program mode)

The H2 mechanism is exactly the same as what a basic no frills digicam would have...

 

[greenhorn]

hmm, well i was overwhelmed by it anyway :ashamed: given a day with the H2's manual, I'd have chosen it for sure

 

[Striker10]

I think I had a Canon Rebel SLR about 10-12 years back . I had fun shooting photos in manual focus.. it was quite good.



edit: Canon Rebel X

 

[greenhorn]

hmm, well i was overwhelmed by it anyway :ashamed: given a day with the H2's manual, I'd have chosen it for sure

 

[-D.Payne-]

Ok to begin this post, I understand that you know enough about dSLRs and that you're in your own way not a newbie to anything about photography. But I also say at the same time, that it is one thing knowing and another thing applying. To know and yet to expect different things is a crime in my opinion.

Before you read the rest of this post, also know that I own a Sony H2 from which I end up taking decently good shots 80% of the time, the rest 20% I'm limited by the camera. And my initial thoughts about a dSLR was that I'd rather go with a H2 but it was not because I dint want a learning curve but because it was just too big.

Now.

- Poor light shots on the H1 were the best followed by the SD870 and then the Rebel XT(very subjective..I'll not get into technical aspects like noise/barrel distortion/vignetting..let me just say the pics looked better)

1. Please do not get into subjective judgements here, because then a shaken blurry shot can be art to a few while fart to many others. What was wrong with the shot? - Was it blurred? - Was it too dark? - Was it in a 3:2 aspect ratio? - Was it non-focussed?

2. Noise if fine about low-light shots, but barrel distortion/vignetting have nothing to do with lighting. So uhh..shooting terms doesn't help.

- Night shots on the SD870/H1 had more noise but much less shake than the Rebel XT

1. Obviously. Since the H1/SD870 both have IS. The H1 can take beautifully stable shots at up to 1/3rd of a second with stable hands or 1/10th of a second mostly. The SD870 has IS as well. I do not know about your grip of a camera but a dSLR is tough to hand-hold for some and thus tougher to keep stable also. Some prefer smaller cams, some larger.

2. The H1/SD870 will get noisy at anything above ISO200 (even that will be grainy) but the dSLR will be smooth as hell even at ISO800 and you can jack it up to ISO1600 with hardly a worry. If you know so much about ISO et al, why dint you just bump up the ISO? Even in P mode, its possible in ANY camera to bump it up.

Example: Shutter 1/5, F2.8 @ISO200 in H1 will equal 1/20, F4.0 @ISO1600 in the dSLR.

----------------------------

Net net, I see you having only an issue with the dSLR with low-light shots. Which it shines at and wipes the floor away from the H1/SD870 even with the slow kit lens.

1. Change ISO.

2. Relook your grip.

3. Do not blame the camera at all times. Its not only about composition, technique etc...its also a lot about patience and understanding the tool in your hands. Because even if you buy the best pro-sumer out there - say a Sony R1, or a Canon S5 IS, or a Fuji F100 - you'll end up blaming it instead. All of these are simply tools.

4. Stick an IS lens onto that dSLR and see the results. The H1's and the SD870's lenses are technically wayyyy better than the F3.5-5.6 lens on the dSLR. I say technically because they have faster f-stops and are image stabilized as well and perfectly suited to the torture you are putting your cam in.

I have been playing around with Cams for the past several years, and know enough about f stop, shutter speed and ISO settings to get optimal photographs under a given set of circumstances (a lot of credit for this goes to tracerbullet)

Am sure you do, my friend. But am afraid you are using to find faults. If you are ready to change settings on chottu cams, I don't see why you can't on a big cam.

In short, if i had to discard 1 of these cams on my next rip, I'd willing drop the Rebel XT

In short, I'd recommend you use or apply your existing knowledge on cameras instead of blaming the camera for not doing the work for you.

If you can't do that. Then don't use one as you decided. And limiting yourself to a simple digicam.

Payne

PS: All the new Olympus and Pentax dSLR should be to your liking.
PPS: I dont mind you giving that dSLR to me.
PPPS: FYI I hate a dSLR's viewfinder.

EDIT: I love the H2. Because of its manual control!

 

[greenhorn]

hmm, well i was overwhelmed by it anyway :ashamed: given a day with the H2's manual, I'd have chosen it for sure