"BarkhaGate" Scandal

[RS4]

blr_p:The consensus as i expected was she did not act as a go between, a lobbyist or take part in any corruption. Course the editor of Open magazine will not agree but to those that do not have an interest...

can you give any links to substantiate your claim on the general consensus?

 

[blr_p]

No one countered the TOI editor at the show when he made the statement that she wasnt colluding, fixing or lobbying.

 

[kippu]

^ you have made up your mind even before the tapes were heard that she is innocent and these tapes are not important at all , and not that you will want to change your opinion on it now , and since the general "consensus" here in this forum and in the interwebs agrees with my belief , i am glad ...

 

[RS4]

blr_p:No one countered the TOI editor at the show when he made the statement that she wasnt colluding, fixing or lobbying.

^^thats what the TOI editor said, its not the general consensus.If you can spend some time on google then you will know whats the general consensus on this topic.

A Too-Argumentative Barkha Dutt Squanders Chance to Quell Criticism on Radia Tapes - India Real Time - WSJ
Barkha Dutt on the Radia tapes
Poll: Barkha Dutt’s Radia Tapes Show - India Real Time - WSJ

 

[blr_p]

^^thats what the TOI editor said, its not the general consensus.'

But its very signficant given who said it. It was obvious to me right from the start and my earlier posts reflect that, but me saying it does not carry the same weight

And he said that after she explained how things went down.

If you can spend some time on google then you will know whats the general consensus on this topic.

The only reason i asked was so ppl supporting their view can provide more links to read. Not too much to ask is it.

So far shourie's interview here is the best critique i've seen, its very detailed thx to Karan. I'll get into it later when i have more time

A Too-Argumentative Barkha Dutt Squanders Chance to Quell Criticism on Radia Tapes - India Real Time - WSJ

This was posted earlier, I think she was defending herself there. Argumentative to a point, she gave as good as she got and did it coming out sincere. I was amazed how she kept her composure in what must have been quite a trying situation with the heavyweights playing j'accuse.

Barkha Dutt on the Radia tapes

Man U vs Barca :lol:

No real answer was provided to Manu Joseph’s key question: Why couldn’t Barkha recognise what even a cub reporter could – That a telecom companies’ PR person lobbying on behalf of a party for the post of telecom minister was probably the ‘biggest story of the decade’ and should have been reported? If not in 2009, then at least in 2010?

Good and an important point. Now had manu put it across in this manner she would have been less defensive but he was too aggressive and its a real pity we did not get her answer. Notice how cool swapan was when he asked his question. Big smile and all, that is the way manu should have behaved

In the circumstances, a simple mea culpa would have said it better than all these lame defenses.

There was this feeling but i cant help thinking if she said that things would have got worse for her.

Poll: Barkha Dutt’s Radia Tapes Show - India Real Time - WSJ

i feel more convinced she did not contravene journal ethics - 8.9% (154 votes)
i feel less convinced she did not contravene journal ethics - 63.8% (1104 votes)
the show has not changed my opinion one way or the other - 27.3% (473 votes)

Very good

 

[RS4]

@blr_p: read the poll lines again

 

[kippu]

There was this feeling but i cant help thinking if she said that things would have got worse for her.

but since you are convinced that she has not done wrong , why would she have to say mea culpa?

 

[blr_p]

First off, i've not convinced myself of anything, i've taken a view that tries to see both sides of the story.

Quite simply because its not been proven she was actually doing it. This case is a bit unique in the sense it creates a stink, there is definitely the indication something improper has taken place but its much harder given the selective info that it indeed has taken place. When listening to the tapes one gets this impression. Barka's comment that she did not know Radia was also influencing telecom companies i feel isn't strong enough. Common sense would say given how relaxed the tone of the conversation is that there must be sufficient intimacy with Radia. Whether that means she automatically should know all her clients isn't so straightforward.

Therefore for her to admit any wrongdoing is defacto confessing to having committed it.

--- Updated Post - Automerged ---

@blr_p: read the poll lines again

Why ? the figures haven't changed.

What those numbers tell me is that if I were to discuss this topic IRL, there is a ~2:1 chance that ppl will agree that she did something wrong than not. That is taking the third option 'does not change opinion' as neutrals or 'don't know'.

I'm not sure how else to interpret that third option otherwise :huh:

 

[Arjun]

Experts debate Radia tapes' impact: India : India Today - Latest Breaking News from India, World, Business, Cricket, Sports, Bollywood.

 

[broadway]

Arun Shourie discusses the real meaning of the Radia tapes with Rediff.com's Sheela Bhatt

Arun Shourie is a former newspaper editor, twice a member of the Rajya Sabha, a former Union minister, right-wing thinker and author of 25 books.

He is currently working on this 26th book at the Lavasa complex near Pune, an attempt to understand human suffering through various religions.

Despite the spiritual thrust of his latest book, Shourie, 69, keeps a sharp eye on New Delhi [ Images ].

Here he takes readers through the minefields of the 2G spectrum scam and the Niira Radia tapes and explains how the political milieu in New Delhi has reached the tipping point.

The first of a two-part conversation:

How can we make sense of what is happening in New Delhi after the expose of the 2G spectrum scandal and the release of the Niira Radia tapes?

What's the bigger message that comes out of Radia's conversations?

This shows the extent of corporate penetration into government, into the media and into details of policy making.

The main point that emerges from the tapes is the level of corporate penetration. These tapes have shown that everybody is now linked to everybody else.

Democracy survives on counter-rallying power. It survives when there are alternate sources of authority. But now those have joined hands. There is, what my friend (Union Urban Development Minister S) Jaipal Reddy has once called, an invisible government of India [ Images ] which is completely stable.

The visible Government of India keeps changing, but that invisible government of India remains completely stable.

That is the real danger because now the Opposition is no different from the ruling party, whichever is the ruling party. The influence of those puppeteers behind the scene works on both sides. As a result, no issue is pursued to conclusion.

Is the 2G issue a new one? No. It is two years old. I know how I have taken documents to editors, to senior people in government. How can it be that only one reporter in one newspaper The Pioneer was following it? He was not withholding information, but not one newspaper or television channel touched it.

Today also the reportage is about what (former telecom minister) A Raja says, what Arun Shourie says. Is that the end of the story? I hardly read newspapers now. I just don't watch television. There is nothing to be learnt.

Why are journalists going for sound bytes? Why don't they take the documents home, study it and come to their own conclusions? I can't understand.

I feel completely distanced from this profession (journalism) and, of course, politicians. They are in bed with each other and with everybody.

Don't you think the BJP (Bharatiya Janata Party [ Images ]) also has a lot to answer for in the current situation?

I don't see the difference between the two. I feel they (the BJP and the Congress) are one party. They are jointly ruling. It is a dinner party. They meet at dinners. They meet socially. They decide on what has to be done about issues.

It is all very cooperative behaviour. They (the BJP) are shouting (for a Joint Parliamentary Committee). They know that it will kill the investigation.

A JPC will raise side issues and that is what both sides want. Because the corporates behind both sides are the same. They don't want the 2G spectrum investigation to proceed.

If you see the bigger picture of 2G spectrum, it is a battle between the old operators and the new operators in telecom...

But that's the separate issue...

It was during the NDA (National Democratic Alliance) government led by the BJP that (then Union minister) Ananth Kumar introduced Niira Radia to the New Delhi set-up.

Yes, that's one point. I remember there was a report in that regard in the Indian Express which had an eight column front-page story just below the masthead. The story was about Ananth Kumar and Niira Radia's association with each other. I don't recollect if Annath Kumar was then the civil aviation or tourism minister.

I was astonished to read that such person has been named in the report. I was told by a very senior official about the observations made by some agency. He was in a position to know about the minister. He told me that the report about Ananth Kumar and Radia's association is correct and that is why no action was taken against the published report.

See, issues are not taken up in New Delhi by anybody. The political parties and corporates have complete liaison with the media. Its not just Barkha Dutt and Vir Sanghvi, it is the whole lot involved with each other.

That's why political parties are not taking up the issue of the Radia tapes. The cpi-m (Communist Party of India-Marxist) shouted about the tapes, but the next day the story came that West Bengal [ Images ] Chief Minister Buddhadeb Bhattacharya [ Images ] was dealing with Radia for the West Bengal Industrial Development Corporation.

Now can the CPI-M [ Images ] shout 'crony capitalism' in the same way?

The problem is the homogenisation of India's political parties. All are becoming clones of each other. That means there is no counter-wheeling power any longer in the country.

Do you accept the argument of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's [ Images ] supporters and Congress leaders that there are limitations to a coalition government?

Also, a Congress leader claimed that you can't ask the government to abdicate the duty to govern by taking action under pressure.

Why have they taken action now? Has the coalition fallen? No. These arguments are not right.

The prime minister of India has unlimited power. Our system is so structured that the PM knows everything.

Yashwant Sinha [ Images ], when he was finance minister, told me an incident. He got a message from a leader of the state that s/he wanted to see him. He asked Prime Minister (Atal Bihari) Vajpayee if he could can meet that person. Vajpayee said he could meet her/him.

When Sinha went to the state he met the particular leader without anyone knowing about it. He had lunch and talked about all sorts of things. At the end of it, the leader gave him an envelope. He kept it in his pocket. He came to New Delhi and only then opened it.

It was a legal brief on why cases against that leader should not be pursued by the Enforcement Directorate. He put the envelope in his drawer and did nothing about it. He forgot the case.

Several days later he met Vajpayee and spoke about his meeting with the state leader. Vajpayee listened quietly and kept looking at him. At the end of the meeting he asked Sinha, 'Aur woh lifafa (what about the envelope)?'

Sinha was astonished since he had told no one about the meeting and he did not act on what was requested.

Unless the prime minister deliberately shuts his eyes there is no difficulty in knowing everything. It would be incredible that the prime minister would not know. The system is so structured.

Second, all the telecom dealings were done in public. The Prime Minister's Office would certainly read the newspapers. There was so much commotion in Sanchar Bhuvan that people were beaten up the day the allotment of 2G spectrum was announced.

The point is that the prime minister himself wrote a letter and as politely as possible gave instructions that please examine the issue of auctioning of spectrum and determining its price in a fair and transparent manner.

And his minister disregards that.

Do you think that the PM would not know that?

It was the letter signed by him that was ignored.

Coalition dharma doesn't mean that I will become protector of the corrupt.

I feel the prime minister must have known about the 2G issue. That's evident from all sorts of facts.

Second, coalition compulsions do not give you the licence to abdicate your duty.

If your minister is doing something wrong, as captain of the team, the prime minister owes the responsibility to the country to stop the minister.

If the PM had confronted (Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam [ Images ] chief M) Karunanidhi with all the evidence, I don't imagine he would have told the PM, 'Don't take action against Raja'.

It is possible that the Congress party must have prevailed over the PMO in that matter.

I don't know. I have heard the opposite. Six months ago, the Congress party had told the prime minister that you remove Raja and it is your responsibility to explain this matter to Karunanidhi. That is what senior leaders of the party have been saying.

I don't know the inner party politics of the Congress. But your point of view or mine is immaterial.

The material fact is that nothing was done. People are asking, 'Raja ke khilaf karwai kyon nahi ki? (Why was action not taken against Raja?)'

--- Updated Post - Automerged ---

Arun shourie : Part II

One of the issues revealed in one of the Radia tapes is that you were not given a chance to speak on a Budget-related issue in Parliament.

In her conversation with N K Singh, a former bureaucrat and now a Janata Dal-United MP, she says she didn't want you to be given a chance to speak by the BJP (Bharatiya Janata Party).

Did you discover the alleged pressure on your party from the tapes or did you know about it before?

Do you think corporate people can influence the BJP?

Why don't you listen to the tape? I was astonished when I reached Parliament that day. But what can you do? I didn't know that such pressure had worked.

I don't blame the corporates as much as the political process and then these lies are being put out (in defence by the BJP).

And my friend N K Singh says this was a social chat. Arre, look at your tone. You are talking for nine minutes to Radia. Out of that for five minutes he speaks on how he was successful in subverting the BJP's speakers in the debate on the Budget.

N K Singh now says he rejected the proposal that favoured Mukesh Ambani's Reliance when he was revenue secretary.

How interesting! Then what about the tape? This concession (to Reliance's gas project) was made by (Union Finance Minister) Pranab Mukherjee.

A revenue secretary, who has written some clarification, overruled this concession. (N K Singh says on the tape) 'We have to get it restored, otherwise we are nowhere. The initiative they have taken will go nowhere.'

Therefore, Arun Shourie who has taken the difficult position in the BJP's party meeting, has to be managed, he says. He then says, we have got Venkaiah Naidu to speak first.

Somebody has analysed Venkaiah Naidu's speech, in which the sentence is there (supporting Reliance) that all these tax concessions must be continued and given for the gas infrastructure. Where is the doubt?

That's why you are saying that the BJP and Congress are the same.

From all sorts of circumstances. Why is the investigation into the IPL (Indian Premier League) not being pursued? Because you find the same group (the Congress and the BJP) is everywhere.

It is now only the pretence of the government and the Opposition. Actually, they are the same.

Unless, the people of India wake up these things will go on. No issue will reach its conclusion. This is cancer. This is not a scandal.

Have you seen a detailed debate on Indian defence, on the dangers that India is facing from China?

When I was writing on it three years, five years and even ten years ago about China they would say 'paranoia'! I wrote on Islamic terrorism, about Pakistan.

Have you seen anybody taking up these issues in New Delhi? Television will debate the issue to find out who is responsible.

Someone says Nehru, some will say Indira Gandhi, some will blame (P V) Narasimha Rao or Manmohan Singh. The debate is over and now let's go and see Shilpa Shetty!

That's the problem! Just drama that is going on and on. Inside Parliament, it is arranged drama.

You have heard the 100 plus Radia tapes uploaded on the Outlook Web site. It gives us an insight into India 2010.

It's a very important insight. That's why I am urging people please, please listen to it. I am urging people to please publish verbatim.

Please bring out books. Please bring out CDs and reproduce it. So, that people would know how things are managed in government, in the Opposition and in the media.

How polices are being made, how personnel are being fixed. It's a wonderful glimpse. We owe a great degree of thanks to Niira Radia, and, to the persons who recorded these calls and to the person who leaked it.

And, a very important point: These tapes also show the power of the Internet.

Apart from Open and Outlook, the whole print media blacked it out, but Internet users had perseverance. The Hindu has taken it up now. Individual journalists like Girish Nikam and others are pursuing it. Now, the tapes have got some focus.

What has surprised you in Radia's conversations?
Nothing has surprised me. This is what I have been saying since long is the state of affairs. That is now confirmed by these tapes.

This is not the state of affairs of India. The Radia tapes reveal the state of affairs in New Delhi.

When you were a journalist and a top editor, you shifted to politics.

In those years when you were moving from media to politics, obviously, even your phone call would suggest that you crossed that red line. Don't you think so?

I don't think so. You can tap my phone, anytime. What red lines? I consider myself a writer.

When I was in government everybody said I am not a politician. That's true. I am not a politician. I don't think my behaviour with my contact would be different than my writing.

If you ask me today, 'Do you know Radia?' Yes, I met her once. What is there to hide?

Did you ever think that Radia would be so powerful?

I thought she was an articulate lady. I never thought that she knows everybody -- very effective in her job. We can't blame her.

What's the solution for the Indian media?

First, the media should write about itself. It is extremely short-sighted about the media to black out these things. The Mitrokhin Archives (external link) revealed how (the then Soviet intelligence agency) the KGB boasted that they were able to plant 400 stories in such and such Indian newspapers.

The Indian media blacked it out. Then, privatetreaties.com (external link) of The Times of India that other people have now adopted has been completely blacked out.

Only two, three journalists are exposing it on the Internet. Again, on the issue of paid news, only P Sainath of The Hindu wrote about it.

When the Press Council of India was forced to appoint a committee to look into the allegations about 'paid news', the Press Council itself suppressed the report.

These Radia tapes should be a gold mine for Indian media to show how things work in New Delhi. The whole issue has come down to Vir Sanghvi and Barkha Dutt. That is not the whole issue.

The arguments forwarded by many media outlets is that the source of the Radia tapes is not known and nobody is sure if they are doctored or not.

That's just the dammed rationalisation. Has any single person disputed the voices on the Radia tapes? No. Has anybody been able to prove that tapes have been edited? No.

Barkha Dutt has written to that effect.

She has written, but what else did you talk about? Is that not clear enough? We can't go by the rationalisation that has been offered.

Another issue that has cropped up relates to privacy.

How many private things in Indian journalism has not been disclosed? Every second day the Indian media is disclosing people's private matters. Only in this matter are they sanctimonious about the Right to Privacy.

Do you think Ratan Tata is right when he says that?

It's a separate matter. The distinction has to be there between private talk and the matter that has impact on public policy that is not covered by the Right to Privacy law. I don't think even Ratan Tata has asked to that effect.

He only says that his private conversation with Radia that relates to personal things should not be leaked. There are personal things like what kind of food he likes etc. But, why should the tapes of his conversations, which are in the public domain, not be heard?

Take the case of WikiLeaks. Is the Indian media reporting or not?

Are they verifying the authenticity of the source? Are they contacting the persons concerned? Are they checking if these cables are edited or not? No.

Yet, they are carrying it. These are arguments manufactured for shutting your eyes.

Do you think the (EM>United Progressive Alliance UPA-2 is increasingly losing its sheen?

The cancer is now in the fourth stage in our governance structure.

It has reached what (writer Malcolm) Gladwell has called the tipping point.

I feel the prime minister has lost complete control of the government. Sonia Gandhi has lost control over the political processes and of the Congress party.

Nobody fears her. Till now, she was the supreme court. The way Congressman feared her, they don't fear her now.

That is why you see how she took time to take action in Andhra, Maharashtra and corruption in the Commonwealth Games. They kept saying the government is not doing anything on the CWG.

There was an sms doing the rounds where someone asked why the government did not act when the country was getting such a bad name? The answer was that nobody told the prime minister that the Games are going on!

Similar is the case of Sonia Gandhi. She has unlimited authority within the Congress, and therefore in the government.

When the country's name was jeopardised, if not the prime minister, she should have acted. Both have lost authority in their respective space.

In May 2009 everything was looking so hopeful and good for the Congress party. Why this transformation?

Because of the tipping point. Things go wrong inside the body and we don't realise.

Second, I have seen during Rajiv Gandhi's time that the prime minister and rulers are often misled by the fact that they control the situation within Parliament. But they don't realise that the situation outside Parliament is going out of their hands.

This is what happened to Rajiv Gandhi. He had three-quarters majority in the House. He thought he controlled everything. He was in control, but things outside Parliament slipped out of his hands. The same things are repeating today.

They must be thinking that we have won. We have managed other smaller parties. The Opposition party is our pocket borough! We have managed them. They were confident of them. Call them for dinner and praise them a little bit in public.

People can be driven by flattery; you don't even need to give them money.

Some small fry could be praised in public. They became instruments in the hands of the government. The government felt cosy in that position. Suddenly things went out of hand.

Do you agree with the BJP's demand for a JPC (Joint Parliamentary Committee to probe the 2G spectrum scam?

The JPC will derail the investigation. The government will get a perfect alibi for two years that the probe would go on.

There were JPCs on Harshad Mehta, Ketan Parekh, insecticides. What happened to them?

If a JPC is formed, then the issue of 2G spectrum will be killed. The CBI (Central Bureau of Investigation is now doing the job.

A Raja is out and there are many indications that they are pursuing the matter. I know from personal knowledge that the CBI has got details of the transactions involving many, many telecom players and Raja.

The best way is for the CBI's investigation to be monitored by the Supreme Court.

There is the petition to that effect by advocate Prashant Bhushan. He says it should be monitored by independent people. I think it should be monitored by Chief Justice S H Kapadia in whom we have faith.

The CBI itself has said the investigation will be over by March. We should wait till then.

 

[blr_p]

Democracy survives on counter-rallying power. It survives when there are alternate sources of authority. But now those have joined hands. There is, what my friend (Union Urban Development Minister S) Jaipal Reddy has once called, an invisible government of India [ Images ] which is completely stable.

Theo roosevelt beat Jaipal reddy by a hundred years cos he's the one that actually said it. Too bad TR lost the election to woodrow wilson so we never did get to find out exactly how you take down an 'invisble govt'. I don't think Jaipal reddy will suceed either

I hardly read newspapers now. I just don't watch television. There is nothing to be learnt.

Riiight, but a few lines up Shourie said...

How can it be that only one reporter in one newspaper The Pioneer was following it? He was not withholding information, but not one newspaper or television channel touched it.

So he does read some newspapers then.

Whenever i hear ppl tell me they dont read anything i ask them how they get their news but never receive an answer. Why is that If you're Arun Shourie maybe you can get your news from your social network otherwise you're just going to remain dumb.

It is all very cooperative behaviour. They (the BJP) are shouting (for a Joint Parliamentary Committee). They know that it will kill the investigation.

A JPC will raise side issues and that is what both sides want. Because the corporates behind both sides are the same. They don't want the 2G spectrum investigation to proceed.

Govt has not agreed to a JPC yet. The way Shourie frames this one gets the impression the opposition parties are even more guilty of the 2G scam than the incumbent.

The problem is the homogenisation of India's political parties. All are becoming clones of each other. That means there is no counter-wheeling power any longer in the country.

Opposition is supposed to the counter-wheeling power, i guess they just sold out

Why have they taken action now? Has the coalition fallen? No. These arguments are not right.

Because of what Jaya said. Karuna no longer has MMS by the balls, or does Shourie not know this ? Maybe if he read more newspapers and watched more tv he would.

Coalition dharma doesn't mean that I will become protector of the corrupt.

Well maybe Jaya should have made her offer earlier then.

Dunno bout you but this artice with Shourie does not impress me very much !

Instead of illuminating its obfuscating and cannot imagine why someone of Shourie's stature would resort to.

 

[RS4]

Another issue that has cropped up relates to privacy.

How many private things in Indian journalism has not been disclosed? Every second day the Indian media is disclosing people's private matters. Only in this matter are they sanctimonious about the Right to Privacy.

Barkha was furious on that ndtv show that they published the tapes without consulting her, Do NDTV people care about privacy of people other than their group editor

 

[blr_p]

I don't buy the privacy argument, had they consulted her she would have blocked them by taking out some injunction.

I disagree that Open magazine & outlook did anything wrong in publishing the tapes.

 

[broadway]

Riiight, but a few lines up Shourie said...

So he does read some newspapers then.

He didn't say he doesn't read them at all. He said he "hardly" reads them. But then only you understand the importance of this argument.

Whenever i hear ppl tell me they dont read anything i ask them how they get their news but never receive an answer. Why is that If you're Arun Shourie maybe you can get your news from your social network otherwise you're just going to remain dumb.

Even i can say that i hardly read newspapers. I get RSS feeds. I simply look through the headlines or the titles and click those that interest me. I get RSS feeds for expressbuzz. But for some reason, i hardly remember clicking a title from that particular feed. So i can say, i know what expressbuzz has been reporting about, but i hardly read it.

Govt has not agreed to a JPC yet. The way Shourie frames this one gets the impression the opposition parties are even more guilty of the 2G scam than the incumbent.

Both parties seem to be a client this PR lobbyist, radia. There is a tape between nk singh and radia.

Opposition is supposed to the counter-wheeling power, i guess they just sold out

That is not the right word. I think the two national parties cooperate behind the scenes. I guess this system began taking shape after vajpayee left the scene. Probably, it is the reason why shourie has distanced himself from bjp and treated it as yet another clone of congress. I think he made a final attempt to fix things by appearing in public and asking the RSS to intervene. But it never happened.

Because of what Jaya said. Karuna no longer has MMS by the balls, or does Shourie not know this ? Maybe if he read more newspapers and watched more tv he would.

I think he said that the indian system is such that the PM eventually gets to know everything. So when a scuffle broke out in the central registry, the PM sent a letter full of instructions to raja and he disregards that too. Arun says that the PM knew. The PMO knew why raja was changing the cut-off date and the basis of allotments. Why did the centre not take action against him back then? The same plot(jaya extending a hand to congress) would have played out then.

Shourie is right when he questions the PM on why he didn't do the right thing:
Do you think that the PM would not know that?
It was the letter signed by him that was ignored.
Coalition dharma doesn't mean that I will become protector of the corrupt.
I feel the prime minister must have known about the 2G issue. That's evident from all sorts of facts.
Second, coalition compulsions do not give you the licence to abdicate your duty.
If your minister is doing something wrong, as captain of the team, the prime minister owes the responsibility to the country to stop the minister.
If the PM had confronted (Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam [ Images ] chief M) Karunanidhi with all the evidence, I don't imagine he would have told the PM, 'Don't take action against Raja'.

Dunno bout you but this artice with Shourie does not impress me very much !

Cause you have already made up your mind wrt congress and wrt bjp

Instead of illuminating its obfuscating and cannot imagine why someone of Shourie's stature would resort to.

You know things are bad when someone like shourie comes on devils advocate and explains the importance of the media in a democracy. It's been reduced to mere platitudes.

--- Updated Post - Automerged ---

The arguments forwarded by many media outlets is that the source of the Radia tapes is not known and nobody is sure if they are doctored or not.

Barkha Dutt has written to that effect.

It's funny that she has to ask that question. I got a similar feel from karan thapar. Its like they knew that this happened in the scenes. Its like jim carrey in the truman show. The part where he starts feeling suspicious and all the characters in the plot start asking him questions to substantiate his suspicion. No matter how hard he tries, the characters just keep up with their pretence.

I think shourie has found himself in a similar plot here. I guess the majority of the media houses were connected to this radia women. If one network spills the beans on the relationship details between NDTV and radia then NDTV might do the same on other networks.

Truman was the main character in the plot. Around whom the entire cast performed the pretence. He broke the plot by disappearing. The cast could no longer keep up their pretence in the absence of the main character.

 

[blr_p]

He didn't say he doesn't read them at all. He said he "hardly" reads them. But then only you understand the importance of this argument.

Why does he say this in the first place is my point. Maybe things have degraded since he was in charge of the express in the early 90s but even that is very simplistic to say because the options today are much more. I just don't feel this is a helpful statement to say at all. He should be encouraging ppl to read and debate more.

Even i can say that i hardly read newspapers. I get RSS feeds. I simply look through the headlines or the titles and click those that interest me. I get RSS feeds for expressbuzz. But for some reason, i hardly remember clicking a title from that particular feed. So i can say, i know what expressbuzz has been reporting about, but i hardly read it.

Shourie's not talking about RSS feeds is he. Given how few ppl can actually discuss these issues with pertinent facts other than emotionally reacting is indicative of the general state of awareness ppl have.

Both parties seem to be a client this PR lobbyist, radia. There is a tape between nk singh and radia.

So why does he imply that the oppositoin does not want the 2g scam addressed further. For the last two weeks i've heard numerous opposition spokesppl make the case for it, several times on Karan's show they've even debated whether this would be appropriate and the experts talking have agreed despite what Tiwari has been saying.

That is not the right word. I think the two national parties cooperate behind the scenes. I guess this system began taking shape after vajpayee left the scene. Probably, it is the reason why shourie has distanced himself from bjp and treated it as yet another clone of congress. I think he made a final attempt to fix things by appearing in public and asking the RSS to intervene. But it never happened.

Nitish coming to power would imply Vajpayee's style of govt is coming back into fashion. Emphasis on inclusive rather than exclusive which for me has always been very obvious. Its not possible to polarise ppl on just one issue for long in this country, eventually they will lose their focus.

I think he said that the indian system is such that the PM eventually gets to know everything. So when a scuffle broke out in the central registry, the PM sent a letter full of instructions to raja and he disregards that too. Arun says that the PM knew. The PMO knew why raja was changing the cut-off date and the basis of allotments. Why did the centre not take action against him back then? The same plot(jaya extending a hand to congress) would have played out then.

Shourie is right when he questions the PM on why he didn't do the right thing:
Do you think that the PM would not know that?
It was the letter signed by him that was ignored.
Coalition dharma doesn't mean that I will become protector of the corrupt.
I feel the prime minister must have known about the 2G issue. That's evident from all sorts of facts.
Second, coalition compulsions do not give you the licence to abdicate your duty.
If your minister is doing something wrong, as captain of the team, the prime minister owes the responsibility to the country to stop the minister.
If the PM had confronted (Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam [ Images ] chief M) Karunanidhi with all the evidence, I don't imagine he would have told the PM, 'Don't take action against Raja'.

bottomline : should the PM step down ?

Cause you have already made up your mind wrt congress and wrt bjp

No, because i learnt nothing from this article. What did you learn from it ?

You know things are bad when someone like shourie comes on devils advocate and explains the importance of the media in a democracy. It's been reduced to mere platitudes.

I'm not referring to the DA interview here at all just the rediff one. I'll go into the DA one later.

 

[kippu]

they really bringing up doctoring part now ? after months of tape existence , lol ... pathetic , why dont they just admit it and apologize and take a break

blrp you should really get into politics , i really cannot understand what you stand for ,

are you saying these journalists are wrong

or they were just talking to radia as a source ,

 

[Emil]

If the PM had confronted (Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam [ Images ] chief M) Karunanidhi with all the evidence, I don't imagine he would have told the PM, 'Don't take action against Raja'.[/i]

I remember reading at one point in time that Karunanidhi had actually stated that getting rid of Raja would alienate the backward castes. Now if that isn't a threat not to take action what is?

 

[broadway]

Why does he say this in the first place is my point. Maybe things have degraded since he was in charge of the express in the early 90s but even that is very simplistic to say because the options today are much more. I just don't feel this is a helpful statement to say at all. He should be encouraging ppl to read and debate more.

You must have stopped continuing to read... This is why:
a) Why are journalists going for sound bytes? Why don't they take the documents home, study it and come to their own conclusions? I can't understand.
b) I feel completely distanced from this profession (journalism) and, of course, politicians. They are in bed with each other and with everybody.

Shourie's not talking about RSS feeds is he. Given how few ppl can actually discuss these issues with pertinent facts other than emotionally reacting is indicative of the general state of awareness ppl have.

What emotional reactions? He accused today's journalists of being "lazy". He says that the media, the politicians and the corporate world honour each others interests. Those are serious accusations.

So why does he imply that the oppositoin does not want the 2g scam addressed further. For the last two weeks i've heard numerous opposition spokesppl make the case for it, several times on Karan's show they've even debated whether this would be appropriate and the experts talking have agreed despite what Tiwari has been saying.

Besides making the right noises, i don't know what the opposition wants. What i know is that the congress will never put a well known leader like a. raja behind bars because that would jeopardize the congress-DMK relations. The congress always keeps the path(wrt regional parties) open so that they could continue being in the centre. Jaya extending her support is a good example. If push comes to shove, they'll erect another committee to look after the 2G scam but no one is going to jail.

bottomline : should the PM step down ?

Will the PM stepping down solve things? Does he run things?

I do not understand your line of thinking. Shourie points to the entire system. He has been making statements on indias democracy in most of his recent interviews. They are mere platitudes but they are very serious and very much real.

No, because i learnt nothing from this article. What did you learn from it ?

That there is an unknown degree of homogenisation between the two political parties. And the media. And the corporate world.

That the fourth pillar of democracy - the media - is itself in cahoots with them.

--- Updated Post - Automerged ---

An article in ridingtheelephant on the indian print and visual media

 

[blr_p]

You must have stopped continuing to read... This is why:
a) Why are journalists going for sound bytes? Why don't they take the documents home, study it and come to their own conclusions? I can't understand.
b) I feel completely distanced from this profession (journalism) and, of course, politicians. They are in bed with each other and with everybody.

The solution to that is to search for better writers or be selective, not give up. Its one of those broad sweeping statements that tarnishes every journalist.

What emotional reactions? He accused today's journalists of being "lazy". He says that the media, the politicians and the corporate world honour each others interests. Those are serious accusations.

Watch tonight's 'The Last Word'. They say its not the journalists but the editors per se that direct what can and cannot be said. There is an agenda and no journalist can ignore it. They then say that the ad-budgets are so high that they can pay several newspapers to get the stories they want. This means the smaller publications or lesser circulated ones are likely to be more objective. The problem in a nutshell is we do not get objective news.

The other point brought up was that it should be stipulated by law WHO pays more than 10% of a media's budget as well editors and leading journalists having to declare their assets. This declaration of assets is because they are public figures despite the fact they work for private corps. And finally that they ought to be a readers ombudsman for each publication. They menitoned that the Hindu is the only newspaper that currently has such an ombudsman.

So more transparency will hopefully lead to better objectivity

Besides making the right noises, i don't know what the opposition wants.

Embarass the incumbent and get the ppl to vote for them in the next elections. party comes before nation.

What i know is that the congress will never put a well known leader like a. raja behind bars because that would jeopardize the congress-DMK relations. The congress always keeps the path(wrt regional parties) open so that they could continue being in the centre. Jaya extending her support is a good example. If push comes to shove, they'll erect another committee to look after the 2G scam but no one is going to jail.

Which makes me wonder about the timing of Jaya's offer.

Could it be that enough time had passed that the instigators had disposed off their illegaly gotten gains at a hefty profit so that nobody could be prosecuted ?

Jaya's offer in that light does not amount to much. Karuna's made his money and knows nothing more will come of it. He would withdraw support earlier had those profits been endangered.

Will the PM stepping down solve things? Does he run things?

Well, shourie has said everything but asking for his resignantion hasn't he. Otherwise what else is he getting at ?

I do not understand your line of thinking. Shourie points to the entire system. He has been making statements on indias democracy in most of his recent interviews. They are mere platitudes but they are very serious and very much real.

Only knocking his views in this rediff article, not other interviews. I'm used to a higher level of critique from him. When it comes to understanding bias i find karan better at explaing this over the few shows he's had on the subject.

That there is an unknown degree of homogenisation between the two political parties. And the media. And the corporate world.

This homogenisation is another way of saying the BJP has lost its way. The left is out of the running. Time was Congress was BJP's B team, looks like the roles have switched.

That the fourth pillar of democracy - the media - is itself in cahoots with them.

In this tapes affair, that can be said to a certain extent. Cannot prove it but its impossible to ignore.

An article in ridingtheelephant on the indian print and visual media

Another editor claimed the cabinet-fixing story was the biggest for a decade, which was just silly. He was using that argument to pillory Barkha Dutt, a leading NDTV anchor, whose excitable nature energises her chat shows and reporting, but sometimes interferes with her judgements.

Exactly, and Shourie agrees with this in the DA interveiew. Manu blew his chance.

The most interesting question to ask, when a politician’s or businessman’s alleged misdeeds are exposed, is not whether the allegations are correct but who fed and encouraged the journalist or editor to write and run the story.

ok

 

[Arjun]

Editors Guild discusses Radia Tapes - Videos - Politics - Politics News - IBNLive