CFA : Should I do or not ?

[vyral_143]

Hello,

Currently I m on horizon of completing first year of my MBA program from one of the top college in Mumbai University. I m going to opt for Finance as a specialization. Final placement season would be in Dec-13/Jan-14. Giving me around 7/7.5 months of time. In this time I want to make my CV/resume stronger.

I had missed first class in graduation (B.E. - Electronics - Mumbai University) by a percentage and I feel it hurt me a lot while getting shortlisted for summer internship interviews. I m 2010 pass-out and post that I have work exp of 2 years as a Manual Tester in an Indian MNC (neither TCS nor Infy ).

I m thinking to appear for NCFM modules offered by NSE and complete FLIP certification. However this are pretty common across my batch. So I thought of any better certification & I could found from many, its CFA. However I m not sure of in which all profiles it would help me in my final placements and confused over it whether i should do it or not.

My area of interest lies in somewhere around Macro-Economics, Business Analyst (as I from IT domain already) and Corporate/Project Finance. I m not keen to work in Banks but it will be ohk to work in banks as a researcher or something like that. I m not interested making career in Capital Market or Stock Market at all.

Anyone who had prior exp or is aware about CFA and its end-results kindly help me out. Alternatively suggest any other certification which I should do for my area of interest.

 

[TheBroker]

I've done two levels, flunked level 3. It's good if you're going to be in a related field like equity research, wealth management or portfolio management.
Do not consider it as a primary degree, its a top up. A more detailed study of finance.
I'll update this post at night, going to office right now. Give me a PM if you want for further doubts.

 

[vyral_143]

I've done two levels, flunked level 3. It's good if you're going to be in a related field like equity research, wealth management or portfolio management.
Do not consider it as a primary degree, its a top up. A more detailed study of finance.
I'll update this post at night, going to office right now. Give me a PM if you want for further doubts.

Thanks buddy for a quick reply. I will wait till night so as you can update the post. Also if I needed will PM u.

 

[TheBroker]

Firstly, let me take a bit of liberty with the topic here. What's your area of interest post MBA for a job? What kind of companies do you expect at campus. Not all recruiters will value the CFA on the resume.

And if you've got to do the ncfm modules, some topics are deep and tough - option strategies and another on debt markets. That might add something to the resume, but what's the outcome of having that on the profile, I wouldn't know.

Try to align CFA with your future career and you might be able to answer the question yourself

Sorry, I've answered your questions with more questions but I think this is essential.

 

[windhawk91]

I have completed CFA-1 so I will give you my honest opinion.

The CFA is a good certification to have if you plan to work in wealth management or a hedge fund or anywhere where you manage funds. So unless you plan to work in these fields, I'd say don't go for it especially considering you already have an MBA. If you were just a B.Tech graduate who didn't want to leave your job but still wanted to pursue a qualification then I think a CFA would make sense as opposed to a full-time MBA. But, then again the CFA Institute estimates that it takes a total of 300 hrs of preparation for each level. So, that's a total of 900 hrs which you can spend networking, investing in the stock market, learning w.e you like etc. Further, consider the fact that Indian firms wouldn't value the CFA certification as much since it is a US Certification. MNCs value it more.

You're probably wondering why did I do the CFA in the first place then. So, the reason I did it is because I am final year engineering student with lot of free time on my hands. I have time to do the CFA+Network+Study for engg+play sports+go for vacations+watch TV. Over and above that with the help of my father I invest in the Indian stock market. So, the CFA was a good introduction for an engineering student like me into the world of portfolio mgmt. Its a good base on which I can build. That is why I have only completed the CFA-1. I do not plan on giving the CFA-2 and 3.

Take a look at these articles:
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/cfa-investment-banking/
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/cfa-vs-mba/

I always wonder why employers want so many qualifications. Haven't you proved that you can handle it by going through a 4 year engg. course. Why do people have to have an MBA (Master Bullshit Artist) to progress in their career? Why can't they be promoted solely based on the work they do/business they bring? It almost seems as if the primary goal of education is no more to learn but rather (like a cow in a barn) to get a stamp on your butt! Oh well...!

 

[letmein]

Doing CFA seems to have become a fad in India, like engineering and MBA was earlier.

 

[Sei]

I have completed CFA-1 so I will give you my honest opinion.

The CFA is a good certification to have if you plan to work in wealth management or a hedge fund or anywhere where you manage funds. So unless you plan to work in these fields, I'd say don't go for it especially considering you already have an MBA. If you were just a B.Tech graduate who didn't want to leave your job but still wanted to pursue a qualification then I think a CFA would make sense as opposed to a full-time MBA. But, then again the CFA Institute estimates that it takes a total of 300 hrs of preparation for each level. So, that's a total of 900 hrs which you can spend networking, investing in the stock market, learning w.e you like etc. Further, consider the fact that Indian firms wouldn't value the CFA certification as much since it is a US Certification. MNCs value it more.

You're probably wondering why did I do the CFA in the first place then. So, the reason I did it is because I am final year engineering student with lot of free time on my hands. I have time to do the CFA+Network+Study for engg+play sports+go for vacations+watch TV. Over and above that with the help of my father I invest in the Indian stock market. So, the CFA was a good introduction for an engineering student like me into the world of portfolio mgmt. Its a good base on which I can build. That is why I have only completed the CFA-1. I do not plan on giving the CFA-2 and 3.

Take a look at these articles:
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/cfa-investment-banking/
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/cfa-vs-mba/

I always wonder why employers want so many qualifications. Haven't you proved that you can handle it by going through a 4 year engg. course. Why do people have to have an MBA (Master Bullshit Artist) to progress in their career? Why can't they be promoted solely based on the work they do/business they bring? It almost seems as if the primary goal of education is no more to learn but rather (like a cow in a barn) to get a stamp on your butt! Oh well...!

This is mainly followed in India; you won't see this degree accumulation madness abroad. Even the foreign MNCs that come to India value work-experience more. In my company (U.S. Healthcare I.T. firm with 7500+ employees), there are many managers (and senior managers) who are simply graduates - and most of them not even in I.T. i.e. B.Sc and B.Com passouts too.

Of course, for the top jobs it is sort of a requirement since there is so much competition there. But here in India, jobs which can be handled by a BBA grad have requirements stating a MBA degree.

 

[imkaush]

I am also a 2010 pass out EXTC Mumbai University victim
I have almost the same experience as OP(2+ years in MNC) but in Embedded Systems and am currently working...
Recently, I too was considering doing CFA but a college friend who is in 2nd year MBA suggested me otherwise saying it will be difficult for me to switch to finance and will have to start from scratch (entry-level salary, etc.)

AFAIK, doing a CFA during/after MBA will help only if you plan to work/currently work in the particular domain areas as suggested by the experts above...

 

[vyral_143]

What's your area of interest post MBA for a job?

My area of interest does NOT include Stock Market/Capital Market, Mutual Funds. I would like to go in profiles like Research work of a sector (Research Analyst kinda with view of Economic situations), Project/Corp Finance and Business Analyst/Financial Consulting kinda.

I have completed CFA-1 so I will give you my honest opinion.

The CFA is a good certification to have if you plan to work in wealth management or a hedge fund or anywhere where you manage funds. So unless you plan to work in these fields, I'd say don't go for it especially considering you already have an MBA.

I always wonder why employers want so many qualifications. Haven't you proved that you can handle it by going through a 4 year engg. course. Why do people have to have an MBA (Master Bullshit Artist) to progress in their career? Why can't they be promoted solely based on the work they do/business they bring? It almost seems as if the primary goal of education is no more to learn but rather (like a cow in a barn) to get a stamp on your butt! Oh well...!

Not interested wealth Management or managing funds.
Latter part of your post is true. People are not promoted based on their work/performance to managerial positions (Ass. Manger). My decision to go for post-grad has this as one of reason. I m from IT domain and structure here is Software Engineer -> Senior Software Engineer -> Team Lead -> Project Manager -> Delivery manager or Asso. Vice-President and so on. Now to climb this ladder it does takes good 10-12 years and vacancies available are few with too many candidates. Also now since I have studied bit of HR for a year, there is little care for your career from an organization. Till you are satisfied with your job and stay in company for long you are NOT promoted for soon. Its strange but it comes directly from our HR prof who has over 37 years of exp in industry from era of mills in 80's. Well that's a debatable topic and somewhat OT here, so leaving discussion on that front here.

I am also a 2010 pass out EXTC Mumbai University victim
I have almost the same experience as OP(2+ years in MNC) but in Embedded Systems and am currently working...
Recently, I too was considering doing CFA but a college friend who is in 2nd year MBA suggested me otherwise saying it will be difficult for me to switch to finance and will have to start from scratch (entry-level salary, etc.)

Victim,. Well switching depends on area of interest. For me Maths-Stats and analytic-s on that and technical work are two areas of jobs which i love to do.

I would thank everyone for their feedback and i replied bit late in the thread as sem 2 exams are going on . Its more or less clear that CFA is helpful in profiles like Wealth/Fund/Portfolio Management, which I m not interested hence I should avoid doing it atleast for now. However based on my area of interested which I have mentioned what suggestions you would give to improve my resume.

 

[TheBroker]

Maybe you should take a look at the CFA books to help you analyse better. Nothing beats work experience, but if you're ambitious and want to go abroad ahead in a few years, an international certification surely helps. And the CFA is a tough exam to crack.

As for the roles you mentioned you're interested , I hope you get some companies in that field at your college or you know someone working in such a field to help you with a job.

Do keep an eye on the recruitment profile of your college. It's a tricky job market, speaking from personal experience, things don't always go according to plan

PS - on a side note, I hope you've honed your skills at MS Excel. Very essential, very useful for a finance job.

 

[vyral_143]

Maybe you should take a look at the CFA books to help you analyse better. Nothing beats work experience, but if you're ambitious and want to go abroad ahead in a few years, an international certification surely helps. And the CFA is a tough exam to crack.

As for the roles you mentioned you're interested , I hope you get some companies in that field at your college or you know someone working in such a field to help you with a job.

Do keep an eye on the recruitment profile of your college. It's a tricky job market, speaking from personal experience, things don't always go according to plan

PS - on a side note, I hope you've honed your skills at MS Excel. Very essential, very useful for a finance job.

CFA being tough and costly affair I wanted to confirm its worthiness for me. At present, I dunn intend to go abroad.

Yup, i agree completely about job market part. Many of us can't get why they are shortlisted for one company and not for other during summer internship selection. I m yet to be placed for summers .

For MS Excel our college is organizing one workshop and I have nominated for same. Hoping that should suffice.

Are their any good books to read/study or any certifications/diploma courses from IGNOU which can help in picking up my resume in more companies which visit our institute ?

 

[windhawk91]

CFA is a useful qualification to get your foot in the door for a person like me. After I get a chance at an interview, they are going to accept or reject me solely based on the interview.

For a person like you who has an MBA, you can already get your foot in the door. Why the CFA? In that sense, you can keep accumulating certifications and qualifications, no doubt. If you are one of those then after CFA-3, people will suggest to you to go for a PhD. But, the marginal benefit of each qualification greatly reduces with increasing number of qualifications. And, that is something that I feel you should take into account.

 

[aipess]

I don't want to sound like an a*****e(but I'll be before this ends! ), but I'll go out on a limb and say this:
Op, you are certainly one of those people who have no idea why the hell are they doing, whatever they are doing.
Like everyone else lets just do Engineering and follow it up with an MBA. That typical 'bhed-chal' attitude. That guy got 'x' lacs after engineering+mba; cool, we will do an mba too. Why? To earn money ofc. But have you ever thought if your personality and beliefs are suited for an mba? Adding and piling up degrees one after the other wont help you.

I met an auto-rickshaw driver yesterday, he said he was an mba too.(You will get my point if you are smart enough).

So, to answer your question: do what you like and not what your neighbour is doing. Analyse your strengths and weaknesses, nobody else can do it for you. But as you have already completed half of your course, the best advice that I can give you is dont mess up your masters degree like you did with your be/btech. Try to get a respectable gpa in order to improve your cv instead of hoarding fancy degrees(with sub-standard performance) of which you have no idea why you got them!

Begging your pardon for being so harsh, thanks for forgiving me fellow 'sheep'

@windhawk91 You are completely oblivious of the world around you. Employers solely pick people from the rest of crowd based on the set of skills you have and the set of skills they desire. I can quote many examples but the best would be the guy from an Nit(not even an iit) who as offered some $150k, mind you he was just in is penultimate year of engineering. I can't think of many degrees a student in pre-final year of his bachelor's degree can have. Can you? Do lemme know! I can fill pages of this thread with examples like this but that would be a waste if you get my point by just 1.
And yeah, I too am in the third year of my 4-year course(and already got a call from one of the more reputed companies with a decent offer. Please, I'm not trying to brag anything but if you are proficient and skilled, you dont need to pile up degrees and certifications to hide off your inefficiency) and know a hell lot of 4th years who arent getting any worthwhile jobs and some them aren't getting any. That is because they aren't proficient enough in what they are expected to be masters of. Not because they don't have an MBA tattoed on their butt-cheeks.

 

[aipess]

@letmein Totally agreed!
And this is because people don't think with their minds but with their eyes and ears. Like I said above, everybody wants to do an engg+mba because that guy did it and he is earning 'omfgbbq' lacs. Do what you like and you will be far happier than that idiot mba auto-richshaw wallah.

I'm in no way rying to say that mba is bad or anything or trying to downgrade people who are pursuing an mba. I have no prejudice whatsovever. If you know what are you doing, its all well and good .

 

[windhawk91]

@windhawk91 You are completely oblivious of the world around you. Employers solely pick people from the rest of crowd based on the set of skills you have and the set of skills they desire. I can quote many examples but the best would be the guy from an Nit(not even an iit) who as offered some $150k, mind you he was just in is penultimate year of engineering. I can't think of many degrees a student in pre-final year of his bachelor's degree can have. Can you? Do lemme know! I can fill pages of this thread with examples like this but that would be a waste if you get my point by just 1.
And yeah, I too am in the third year of my 4-year course(and already got a call from one of the more reputed companies with a decent offer. Please, I'm not trying to brag anything but if you are proficient and skilled, you dont need to pile up degrees and certifications to hide off your inefficiency) and know a hell lot of 4th years who arent getting any worthwhile jobs and some them aren't getting any. That is because they aren't proficient enough in what they are expected to be masters of. Not because they don't have an MBA tattoed on their butt-cheeks.

Agreed. Employers solely pick people based on the set of skills. The authenticity of the skills mentioned on your resume is determined in the interview. And, in fact I am currently studying in the rank 2 engineering college in Mumbai so I do know a few people who were offered 120-140k$ in the final year of engg. But these students are exceptions to the rule. And, these students did not acquire their skills through the degree program and classes. They acquired these skills by learning themselves. But yet, I am quite sure that even if they had the exact same set of skills, they wouldn't even have been considered if they weren't pursuing engineering in the given college.

Don't tell me you haven't seen those job ads where the 'minimum qualification required' is an MBA. And, this is what I can't understand because what they teach in most Indian colleges even the so called premiere ones is a JOKE. But yet, you have to go through the grind if you want to be considered for that position. This is why people in India are so degree crazy.

 

[aipess]

But yet, you have to go through the grind if you want to be considered for that position. This is why people in India are so degree crazy.

First, the minimum qualification for a job requiring an MBA is not limited to just India. Not everyone around the world go for an MBA like they do in India. It is a custom to follow up engineering with an MBA here. People in India are not degree crazy, they are just crazy because every one of them follows up engineering with an MBA, not because that particular job requires an MBA but because MBA is like a holy ritual. Because it will fetch 'xyz' lacs. There's a difference it seems.

Let me explain it to you: OP wants to work as a research analyst(System Analyst, Business Analyst, Financial Analyst or whatever). That is possible with just a degree in CSE. Why go for an MBA in the first place if you want to analyse things instead of managing things?
So, what am I trying to prove here? That know what you want to do instead of going for an MBA blindfolded with all the 'bheds'.

You are pursuing engineering too. Tell me truly, would you not go for MBA after you complete you engineering?

But yet, I am quite sure that even if they had the exact same set of skills, they wouldn't even have been considered if they weren't pursuing engineering in the given college.

You completely missed my point. If you are able enough, it doesn't really matter. And there are no exceptions, they were skilled and they got what they deserve.

Don't judge the education system because you are a part of it. Either make an effort to change it or accept it.

P.S. In case you assumed, I should clarify that I'm not an engineer!

This is going way off-topic lol.

 

[windhawk91]

First, the minimum qualification for a job requiring an MBA is not limited to just India. Not everyone around the world go for an MBA like they do in India. It is a custom to follow up engineering with an MBA here. People in India are not degree crazy, they are just crazy because every one of them follows up engineering with an MBA, not because that particular job requires an MBA but because MBA is like a holy ritual. Because it will fetch 'xyz' lacs. There's a difference it seems.

Let me explain it to you: OP wants to work as a research analyst(System Analyst, Business Analyst, Financial Analyst or whatever). That is possible with just a degree in CSE. Why go for an MBA in the first place if you want to analyse things instead of managing things?
So, what am I trying to prove here? That know what you want to do instead of going for an MBA blindfolded with all the 'bheds'.

You are pursuing engineering too. Tell me truly, would you not go for MBA after you complete you engineering?

You completely missed my point. If you are able enough, it doesn't really matter. And there are no exceptions, they were skilled and they got what they deserve.

Don't judge the education system because you are a part of it. Either make an effort to change it or accept it.

P.S. In case you assumed, I should clarify that I'm not an engineer!

This is going way off-topic lol.

I was going to counter argue but then I read your post and clearly there appears to be some misunderstanding. I am exactly trying to say the same thing that you are. Don't just follow the herd, think for yourself. Know what you want, and see if MBA/CFA is the best way to get there or not.

With regards to your question, when I went into engineering I was thinking the same thing that I will do engg+MBA, work at a big company and enjoy life. But, at the time I was too young to think for myself and just followed the herd. But with time, my mentality changed and now actually I do not want to get an MBA and neither do I want to work for a big company. In fact I can't wait to be done with engineering. Want to start my own biz n use the money to travel the world

And, yep if you are skilled it wont matter. Eventually someone is going to spot you and your going to get an awesome job. But going through an engineering or MBA course, just makes it easier for others to notice you.

Yes, that guy from NIT was skilled and that is why he got a job which pays 150k$. But, who knows when he would have landed that job if he wasn't in NIT? Who knows how long it would have taken employers to notice him? Degrees just add credibility. It is proof to employers that you can go through a rigorous program/coursework. And, you want at least some credibility in your life.

And to end my post a quote from Tim Ferriss' book 'The Four Hour Workweek': "It is possible to know all there is to know about a subject— medicine, for example—but if you don't have M.D. at the end of your name, few will listen."

 

[vyral_143]

Warning: Long post . No offence to anyone

Op, you are certainly one of those people who have no idea why the hell are they doing, whatever they are doing.

do what you like and not what your neighbour is doing.

Do what you like and you will be far happier than that idiot mba auto-richshaw wallah. If you know what are you doing, its all well and good .

Exactly my point of doing MBA. I know why I m doing MBA and what it has in it for one who is doing it. Again as said earlier, "For me Maths-Stats and analytic-s on that and technical work are two areas of jobs which i love to do. " So no worries on that front. If I dint like technical stuff, may be I would have not pursued engineering, but I liked, I did and I enjoyed.

Employers solely pick people from the rest of crowd based on the set of skills you have and the set of skills they desire.

if you are proficient and skilled, you dont need to pile up degrees and certifications to hide off your inefficiency

Agreed employers pick people that way and if skilled no need of piling degrees/certifications. But what is time frame of one getting promoted to managerial level in job to use that skills, which was my previous job in IT ? Leave my maths affection apart, when I have already proved about my logical/analytic-al ability, hence decision making based on it, it means skills are present but when they will be noticed ? Why not do a MBA and get noticed on much wider scope?

If you are able enough, it doesn't really matter. And there are no exceptions, they were skilled and they got what they deserve.

Sorry but I do not agree, its not always. Why ? Well its already here told by

And, yep if you are skilled it wont matter. Eventually someone is going to spot you and your going to get an awesome job. But going through an engineering or MBA course, just makes it easier for others to notice you.

Yes, that guy from NIT was skilled and that is why he got a job which pays 150k$. But, who knows when he would have landed that job if he wasn't in NIT? Who knows how long it would have taken employers to notice him? Degrees just add credibility. It is proof to employers that you can go through a rigorous program/coursework. And, you want at least some credibility in your life.

this is what I can't understand because what they teach in most Indian colleges even the so called premiere ones is a JOKE. But yet, you have to go through the grind if you want to be considered for that position.

Another aspect is rather than just getting knowledge, the process is such that it molds one in a good way. Almost all engineers will agree with me that if engineering have not taught them anything but successfully doing things on last moment.

Know what you want, and see if MBA/CFA is the best way to get there or not.

That why the thread was started I want to work in bla bla areas of Finance, will CFA help? that's it.

Also @all where there was point of earning money by doing MBA after engineering, yeah I do want to earn good money but not blindly. Even today I m firm, to have my life balanced, I m hoping for jobs in firms where work week is of 5 days though they pay a lac lesser. When I am earning good money, I also definitely want my time to enjoy and have peace of mind. It might not connect directly but well that's my view.