PC Peripherals Choosing SMPS: calling all Gurus

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sTALKEr said:
I think a lil clarification is needed on the comments flowing about teh VIP PSU's here.

How can anyone here discuss the efficiency of a product which is not provided by a manufacturer/review?? Nowhere has there been a mention of the effeciency of the VIP 400/500watt offerings. so please refrain from using that as a point of reference.

OEM - The VIP 500watt Silver and teh VIP PSU 500watt with a Blue coloured body are the ONLY FSP OEM models rebranded as VIP's(As has been confirmed by members of this and other forums). At the bottom of the scale, the VIP 500watt silver for around 1500/- makes a LOT more sense than a CM PSU for 2.4k. the CM460 at launch was 1.9k which made it great value, but imho at 2.4k, it doesn't make a much sense.
Click to expand...

i already mentioned abt the vip 500w silver FSP oem in some posts above:|

and as far as efficiency part is concerned we aint jus posting blindly:cool2: atleast not me.

SMPS Series :: VIP Computer Cabinets & SMPS :: KPPL

here you go the site mentions >~70% efficiency

VIP is dealt by kunhar peripherals.

luster said:
there is nothing like less efficiency is more than enough.i efficiency is less u r paying money for the power which u are not using.so better get smps with high efficiency rating, of course if it is available for ur requirement
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think practical dude...70% to 80% efficiency on a system tht consumes 100w-150w and used only couple of hrs a day makes makes a unit every 5day say 5rs/unit. Now considering tht does a 70% and >80% efficiency matter ??

...spending 1-1.5k more just for >80% efficiency who uses the pc ideally for 2-3hrs max a day wont bother of the bills.

now considering tht part exceptions are there. download rigs make sense and accordingly ppl can opt for the psu as well.

p.s. sometimes i feel reputed members here jus wanna pawn others.:no:
 
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Simple guide to buying a PSU

Price of comp=PSU

<25k=vip400

25-35=corsair450

35-50=corsair600

50-70=cosair750

70+=tagan1000
 
@morgoth

i need some clarifications buddy.....from wht i have read from ur posts wht i can conclude is that

cm 460w can give 460w of output but it will suck 600w odd power from ac socket...please clarify
 
taher said:
@morgoth

i need some clarifications buddy.....from wht i have read from ur posts wht i can conclude is that

cm 460w can give 460w of output but it will suck 600w odd power from ac socket...please clarify
Click to expand...

Yes, thats the way it works :) Rated output means the PSU is rated to provide that much output power to your PC. The efficiency actually decides how much it ll pull from the wall socket to provide that output :)

@stalker/bikey: This is the exact point ultimabasher is confused about too :rofl:

Ultimabasher:

This is to prove someone wrong

Question : What does rated wattage mean. Eg If smps is 400w then what does it mean?

Answer : It means that the smps is meant to provide that much watts of output by taking more input from the mains. That is the smps of 400w will provide 400w out by taking 500w in if its 80% efficient

True or False.
Click to expand...

True. An SMPS rated at 400W CAN povide 400W at output (ideally of course, lets leave generic n ow quality PSUs out of this :P)

I am the guy he wants to prove wrong :bleh: Let me know if anyone thinks this is wrong :D
 
taher said:
@morgoth

i need some clarifications buddy.....from wht i have read from ur posts wht i can conclude is that

cm 460w can give 460w of output but it will suck 600w odd power from ac socket...please clarify
Click to expand...

yea like that.....its simple concept. bt cm460w shudnt draw 600w for delivering 460w dc. then efficiency wudb

a 100% efficient psu will convert whole ac power from wall socket to dc power which isnt possible practically.

so for 460w, 70% efficient psu wud draw 460w + 138w(compensating the loss) of ac power = 600w and convert to dc power 460w. 138w being lost as heat etc.:).
 
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taher said:
@morgoth

i need some clarifications buddy.....from wht i have read from ur posts wht i can conclude is that

cm 460w can give 460w of output but it will suck 600w odd power from ac socket...please clarify
Click to expand...

Yes, at full load this will be the scenario

But remember that only very high-end rigs draw around 450W power. basic systems without a gfx card can even manage for around 150 Watts.

We go for higher-end PSUs because:

1- It is not advisable to run PSUs at full load for prolong periods. Around 60-70% capacity is the ideal one.

2- Good PSUs normally provide what they claim unlike no name PSUs

3- Good PSUs not only provide power but also provide it as cleanly as possible along with protection against power surge, short circuit etc.
 
UB- please do not double post.
Use "multiquote"- that small button next to quote- and it will select and allow you to reply to 5 posts at a time.
Also edit your previous post to add anything you missed out on, especially if no one replied after your post. :)
ultimabasher said:
Okies I already know that bikey. Thanks for the elaboration
This is to prove someone wrong
Question : What does rated wattage mean. Eg If smps is 400w then what does it mean?
Answer : It means that the smps is meant to provide that much watts of output by taking more input from the mains. That is the smps of 400w will provide 400w out by taking 500w in if its 80% efficient
True or False.
Click to expand...
ultimabasher said:
I simply meant that the PSU that gives more watts out is better in most cases.
Some cases say otherwise where you primary requirements are better efficiency.
Click to expand...
There is only one, sole, solo, uno,... primary cause- clean, stable power at as high efficiency as possible. :happy:
What usually sells for less is sub-standard/seconds/stock clearance. :cool2:

And apart from that confirmation from techie_007 sir, morgoth sir on a psu rated for xyz watts being able to provide the full xyz watts irrespective of the efficiency, there's a lot more to psus than just efficiency.

So UB- you are again wrong in saying a psu that gives more power at lower efficiency maybe better than a psu that has lower watts available at higher efficiency.
And now i am really wondering if you know much on psus. :ashamed:

Its like saying 2 plates of Dal+rice+papad+salad at Rs.xyz makes a better deal to serve at a special occassion than biryani at Rs (xyz+10) bucks. :ashamed:
If one needs more watts, buy higher rated psu with higher efficiency but that will obviously cost more. :lol:
There is no free meal ever and the compromise always hurts in the long run, be it the required power or the quality of the power.

And if you say people have lower budgets, that's usually coz even quite educated people do not attach importance to psus but know the entire architecture of teh latest gpu and want to own one.
Haven't we heard of queries like "will my new 1950pro run on my old single rail powersafe 500W", etc even from seemingly well-informed people.
No issues with the n00bs who might really be ignorant on Colorsit, zebby, intex, mercury, etc 500 watter, there is alwasy a first time and never too late to correct oneself. :P

A lot many psus struggle to keep the power flow steady and clean and that is also one major point to consider while comparing 2 products.

I guess Jonnyguru 'explains/presents facts on' these things best and maybe that article at hardware secrets too, etc etc. :)

nukeu666 said:
Simple guide to buying a PSU

Price of comp=PSU
<25k=vip400
25-35=corsair450
35-50=corsair600
50-70=cosair750
70+=tagan1000
Click to expand...
Simple rule i follow for me and my friends.
Spending less than 10% of full rig price is too less to be spending on something that powers 100% of your precious stuff. :cool2:
If one don't afford decent psu, don't buy decent PC. :P
 
WingZero said:
i already mentioned abt the vip 500w silver FSP oem in some posts above:|

and as far as efficiency part is concerned we aint jus posting blindly:cool2: atleast not me.

SMPS Series :: VIP Computer Cabinets & SMPS :: KPPL

here you go the site mentions >~70% efficiency

VIP is dealt by kunhar peripherals.
Click to expand...

The VIP PSU's being referred to are not mentioned on that site(Gold & Silver series). If someone could provide data on atleast 'claimed' efficiency, it would be very useful. :cool2:

Also, my post referring to the OEM of VIP psu's was primarily to point out that the GOLD series is NOT as good as it might appear to be. Despite being rated as GOLD and demanding the extra premium over the SILVER, it still comes from a lower rung OEM manufacturer. :no:

WingZero said:
think practical dude...70% to 80% efficiency on a system tht consumes 100w-150w and used only couple of hrs a day makes makes a unit every 5day say 5rs/unit. Now considering tht does a 70% and >80% efficiency matter ??

...spending 1-1.5k more just for >80% efficiency who uses the pc ideally for 2-3hrs max a day wont bother of the bills.

now considering tht part exceptions are there. download rigs make sense and accordingly ppl can opt for the psu as well.
Click to expand...

what you mentioned here is something very valid :hap2:. The recent Anandtech article on PC power consumption discusses this issue in detail and is a very good read. But, i feel that one can safely assume that a 80% rated PSU is anyday going to be much better than a 70% rated PSU NOT ONLY from the effeciency point of view, but the more important point of supplying clean power.:ohyeah:

WingZero said:
p.s. sometimes i feel reputed members here jus wanna pawn others.:no:
Click to expand...

Since when did correcting the drivel that some ppl were posting on this thread become a desire to '0wn' others?:ashamed:

PSU effeciency is a topic which has been done to death here on TE. If a new member were to come forward and exhibits ignorance on a particular subject, it becomes the duty of those who might have slightly better knowledge on said subject to share whatever information they have :cool2:.

When said member in question, is NOT a noobie AND is not ready accept his ignoranc, (due to whatever reason) one is forced to use harsher words so that anyone else reading said members posts does not get mislead. :no:

a little information is much worse than no information. :cool2:
 
@wingZero: It's not only about efficiency. It's also about quality control (longer life even if the PSU is stressed sometimes), protection against power surge, clean power, warranty and after sales service.

A friend of mine recently lost a hard drive just because of a poor PSU. It's an important component in a PC as it regulates the power. A bad/average can kill your system. Spending 1K or 1.5K more for slightly better reliability and stable power, is perfectly justifiable.

VIP could be good, but in absence of quality control, lack of reviews and clear specifications, IMHO any PSU from VIP or Zebronics is a lottery.

I am not a hardware engineer and can't really break open each PSU to check for quality before buying it. So, I rely more on the hardware sites which review these products and hope that the opinion that majority of them holds is right. I don't find VIP reviewed anywhere, so I don't buy it.

Cheers!
 
@morgoth....meesa neva said its only abt efficiency:ashamed: ...was only referring with previous posts and pertaining to tht i posted.;)

@stalker....dunno but tht site does mention something like 'Special gold-finish casings' in specs....now the pic says totally different story and the actual specs may differ. Though this thing isnt considered tobe something noteworthy if they had to give what they claim.:). but i guess newer psu doesnt come with tht L n C label.(not sure abt this, i used 2 powersafe psu's 400w and 500w both gold models one was L n C and other was jus with palin powersafe labelled.)
 
Stalker-
You need to correct yourself over one point i feel. :ashamed:

The golden L&C is labelled Powersafe by Kunhar and the silver ones are labelled VIP.

Not all VIP Silver 400/500 are or have to be FSP oem.
The stocks in VIP silver since late mid/late 2006 till early/mid 2008 "happened" to be FSP oems.
The silver ones were twice as heavy as the gold ones then. :ohyeah:
But with shorter and maybe thinner cables and a couple of connectors less. :P

But we gave preference to the Silver one with the UL no. sticker over the gold for reasons known to us.
It is not mandatory.
Also, they had a 20-pin main connector, the Gold L&C one had 24-pin.
But that didn't seem to hamper any functionality for budget users- fortunately. :)

The new silver ones are single rail again (iirc), featherweight and more like Zebronics generic ones. :(
And if so is the case, the Powersafe 'L&C oem' gold one (& dual rail iirc) will be better than the VIP silver. :ashamed:

Just as it was in 2005 and early 2006, when single rail powersafes were available and the L&C gold was considered a fairly reliable psu to use.

As of now, i still consider the Powersafe L&C 400W gold as the cheapest, seemingly reliable psu one may use and shouldn't compromise any further. :cool2:
 
U know he thinks that by buying a high rated PSU like Cm600W even with low effeciency we are still better off with a lower rated psu like vx450w... assuming CM600 is darn cheaper than the vx lol... :rofl: thats such a "pehalwaani" thinking....;)
BIKeINSTEIN said:
UB- please do not double post.
Use "multiquote"- that small button next to quote- and it will select and allow you to reply to 5 posts at a time.
Also edit your previous post to add anything you missed out on, especially if no one replied after your post. :)
There is only one, sole, solo, uno,... primary cause- clean, stable power at as high efficiency as possible. :happy:
What usually sells for less is sub-standard/seconds/stock clearance. :cool2:

And apart from that confirmation from techie_007 sir, morgoth sir on a psu rated for xyz watts being able to provide the full xyz watts irrespective of the efficiency, there's a lot more to psus than just efficiency.

So UB- you are again wrong in saying a psu that gives more power at lower efficiency maybe better than a psu that has lower watts available at higher efficiency.
And now i am really wondering if you know much on psus. :ashamed:

Its like saying 2 plates of Dal+rice+papad+salad at Rs.xyz makes a better deal to serve at a special occassion than biryani at Rs (xyz+10) bucks. :ashamed:
If one needs more watts, buy higher rated psu with higher efficiency but that will obviously cost more. :lol:
There is no free meal ever and the compromise always hurts in the long run, be it the required power or the quality of the power.

And if you say people have lower budgets, that's usually coz even quite educated people do not attach importance to psus but know the entire architecture of teh latest gpu and want to own one.
Haven't we heard of queries like "will my new 1950pro run on my old single rail powersafe 500W", etc even from seemingly well-informed people.
No issues with the n00bs who might really be ignorant on Colorsit, zebby, intex, mercury, etc 500 watter, there is alwasy a first time and never too late to correct oneself. :P

A lot many psus struggle to keep the power flow steady and clean and that is also one major point to consider while comparing 2 products.

I guess Jonnyguru 'explains/presents facts on' these things best and maybe that article at hardware secrets too, etc etc. :)
Simple rule i follow for me and my friends.
Spending less than 10% of full rig price is too less to be spending on something that powers 100% of your precious stuff. :cool2:
If one don't afford decent psu, don't buy decent PC. :P
Click to expand...
 
abhi said:
Are you serious than its worth buying ?
Click to expand...

On second thought, let me rephrase that to - 'almost as good', but with a cheaper price tag. ;)

Performance wise, it should match it. Has a slightly lower capacity on the 12V rail at 45A vs the Corsair's 52A (though looking at the Corsair's power split-up, I don't think you could actually pull out the entire 52A).

The Antec has plain jane looks too - regular grey casing and not all cables are sleeved.

The other issue is whether you feel comfortable with Antec warranty in India. But hopefully, a unit like this should not go bust easily.

Did not notice the recent price cuts on the EA650 in the US. Till a while back it was still selling at 99$ on Newegg, which made the local price quite competitive actually.
 
@ Bikey: Your post clearly underlines why I would avoid VIP or Powersafe. Yes, there could be some good PSU's in their range but there is no guarantee that you will get the better ones and not duds.

Of course, if you can identify the good ones from bad ones, they are quite VMF.

Antec 650 EarthWatts may not be as good as TX650, but it is a very good product at its price. A better buy than TX650 any day.
 
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