Court names Talwars as accused

nehaladsul said:
That is where we need a slightly analytical approach...

True, that there is not sufficient direct evidence to prove the Talwars guilty but the law is not dependent only on the direct evidence. The circumstantial evidence acts as indirect evidence in such cases.

And I must mention that there is quiet a lot of circumstantial evidence in this case that cannot be ignored in the interest of justice.
Yes, but if they are found guilty it has to be done in the proper manner, this is not a kangaroo court, we are not a banana republic.

I think if there isn't sufficient direct evidence then there is no case. The defense is defnitely going to make a very strong case about that.

Now, if on examining further the indirect evidence more is uncovered to make the case then it is ok.

Otherwise we set ourself a nasty precedent in charging this family :(

As i see it they will be scot free with the govts blessing.
 
^^ That is precisely the reason why I advise people to settle matters out of courts... :p

Sadly, this is only possible for Civil matters. :(

I cannot predict the outcome of the case but if this case goes in the direction the Jessica Lass case went, expect the Talwars to be behind bars solely upon circumstantial evidence!

BTW, the Jessica Lall case also involved murder and (attempts at) destruction of evidence just like the Arushi Talwar case.
 
seriously saying someone as guilty with circumstantial evidence is very sad !

and i hope you guy read the tehelka /open magazine for the other side of the story other than what you think
 
blr_p said:
BOTTOMLINE : If they cannot solve a simple murder case such as this that to for well off individuals what chance does somebody less rich have.

Murder cases in UP do not have a good record, this is why ppl from that state are the most ardent advocates to arm themselves.
Why single out a specific state's failure when it comes to delivering justice? I am sure there are many examples in other states as well. The whole system needs to be over thrown. Rather than singling out a state, shouldn't the ruling ineffective "elected" party shoulder the blame. The existing administration has so many skeletons stashed in the cupboard that sometimes a few of these just topple out (various scams,kasab,afzal guru,corruption,etc). the very fact that the ruling party has been using the CBI to its own advantage to conduct investigations pertaining to cases targeting their opposition.
 
nehaladsul said:
but if this case goes in the direction the Jessica Lass case went, expect the Talwars to be behind bars solely upon circumstantial evidence!

BTW, the Jessica Lall case also involved murder and (attempts at) destruction of evidence just like the Arushi Talwar case.
Are you really sure the Lall case was done just on circumstantial evidence ?

See this

Does not appear to me that way.

This will be end up in the supreme court i feel.

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kippu said:
seriously saying someone as guilty with circumstantial evidence is very sad !
Agree

kippu said:
and i hope you guy read the tehelka /open magazine for the other side of the story other than what you think
A link would be good.

Feel free to rebut my assertion as much as you want.

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sunny27 said:
Why single out a specific state's failure when it comes to delivering justice? I am sure there are many examples in other states as well. The whole system needs to be over thrown.
Well this is a contemporary case and well known. When others come up elsewhere I would treat them the same.

But the fact that the crime scene was botched does not excuse those responsible.
 
The joke here is if the court charges them it goes to the Supreme court who might overtun it.

CBI owned, Supreme court owned.

Its win-win for the Talwars here.

Forensics !

Get that right and we see less circus like this.
 
blr_p said:
[quote name='SharekhaN']You think that is not going to happen already?
Don't follow ?
[/QUOTE]

What I mean is, their names are already tainted. They will never been seen in the same light before the incident, unless they emigrate out of India.
 
My observations on the case as an independent observer:

The murders might have taken place due to two very different scenarios.

Case 1: Motive was robbery and the girl and servant were victims.

Case 2: Parents killed their daughter and tried to make it look like the servant killed her. But accidentally killed him too in the process when things went wrong.

Theory for case 1:

Lets say robbery was motive. The servants friends had planned to rob the house that night. So when the servant allowed them inside the house, they must have had some whiskey first and then locked the door of the parents room while the servant was drunk. While locking the girls room she might have accidentally opened it and was stabbed or killed to keep her from waking up her parents.

The drunk servant on seeing the girl being stabbed/ killed must have tried to protect her and was done away too in the process. With two bodies lying around them one am put the girl in her bed and then the men both dragged the servant to the terrace and locked it supposing the key was already in the lock.

In all this they forgot to rob the place or decided not to rob the place and instead make a run to safety.

This story explain the following doubts I had -

1. Why were the parents rooms locked from outside?

2. Why was the servant killed in the house and then dragged to the terrace?

3. Why was the terrace locked from inside and who has the key to the lock since the police had to break the door to get to the body?

What it does not answer is:

1. Didn't the parents hear noises and wake up when their daughter and the servant were being killed?

2. Was anything reported missing from their house?

3. Why didn't the neighbors smell the decomposing body and alert the police? During this time the parents had gone to the Ganges as reported by their lawyer in the "Worse than a daughter" link. So they have an alibi.

4. Why did it take 2 full days for the servants body to be discovered? Didn't any of the neighbor's see the servants body lying on the terrace (from their terrace supposing the houses nearby have a view to the other houses terrace) in these two days?

Theory for case 2:

The parents together with a third person wanted to kill their daughter for reasons best known to them and make it so that the nepali got the blame. Why three people and not husband and wife

alone? Because see the doubts in case 1. Their door was locked from outside.

1. Obviously if they were inside the locked room, then a third accomplice must have locked it from outside after the murders took place and then made his way back to his house after shutting the

front door.

2. It would be impossible for the husband and wife to overpower the nepali guy while slitting his throat by themselves.

3. It then explains why his body was dumped on the terrace. Since their motive was to make it look like the servant killed their daughter, hiding the servants body was important so that the police could go on a wild goose chase while they indirectly got an alibi by going to the Ganges.

This answers the doubts in case 1. It does not answer the following doubts how ever:

1 - Motive for the killing.

I cannot in any way believe it to be a honor killing. No one would make plans to kill their 14 year daughter in advance. Unless there was a very big argument and the kid was killed by mistake and the servant was killed in the confusion too. Then the third person was called to make it look like a robbery/ assault case.

2. If they had pre planned the murder, who is the 3rd person involved?

This is the biggest puzzle. Who is this 3rd person who has managed to evade the police and media till now. Why are the parents (if they are involved) not disclosing this persons name and sheltering him?

End of theory. All this can go for a toss based on actual evidences of the scene of crime. All in all a very intriguing case.
 
I am sort of out of sync but last time I remember, weren't some scoop in certain news channels that CBI accussed Noida police of destroying potential evidences "by mistake" or something like that by contaminating the crime scene?
 
^^

They apparently let the media run hay wire before all evidence/forensics could be gathered. Usual carelessness, and announced a reward for the missing house help.
 
^^

Be it honor or what ever. No one would do that to their own child. Both parents loosing it at the same time....doubt that.
 
asingh said:
^^

Be it honor or what ever. No one would do that to their own child. Both parents loosing it at the same time....doubt that.
This fact is the only thing which makes me rethink and doubt their involvement, but many of the facts from the closure report make it seem otherwise

What could possibly be a motive for an outsider to do such a thing?
 
From what I've read so far, Arushi's parents should be given the benefit of doubt due to the the fact that a clear motive cannot be established and there is the probability that they are innocent the whole time as they are the parents of the victim (not some 3rd party who had no business being there at the crime scene) and in all probability, the ones who care for her the most.

It could be a robbery/assault attempt or it could be something else but the CBI report comes too late and looks like cover up for their botched investigation.
 
kippu said:
parents room was not locked, kindly read up more
my apologies. still they couldn't have locked the door from outside without the help of a 3rd person.

also case 1 will still hold true if the two outsiders had gagged the victims mouth while killing them.

I'm sure the murder was done by outsiders. They dumped the servant on the terrace so that he would be suspected of the girls murder, giving them time to get away.
 
Seriously folks need to read the open magazine article.

Provides brilliant perspective which has been sadly missing from much of the mainstream coverage.
The case can never get truly settled. A judgment on the basis of circumstantial evidence will only muddle things up for cases that might crop up in the future. I do agree that they should have just dropped the ball on 'not enough evidence' to charge.
 
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