Define "LiVinG MattER" , wats Dead and wats Alive?

V

Viking

Adept
HMMMn, got a serious topic here guys, please help me out, as for endless days,

i have been trin to figure this out>>>

Well, what is that u define as living,and what is that we define as dead,

For living>>>

1)A living matter sud always die.(but again here its a circular logic as what is dead then ,even dead matter deteriorates more, so it also dies??? , so is dead living? & even there are biological viruses which never die just remain dormant till they find a suitable host so are they always dead)

2)A matter which propogates is considered to be living(well even computer programs do propogate so cud they be also classified as living ?)

3)and living is something which grows (well so when somebody stops growing r they considered dead, )

4)i am really confused as to any more classifications but a proper shape will evolve as we keep on discussing on this topic,,,

so get ready to be resurrected or are we really dead !!!!

So wat is really living and way is dead???????????
 
Here r my openions:

1.Virii don't live forever by being dormant.atleast not infinitely they do have a life span

The fully differentiated neutrophil dies within a day," says Gail Sullivan, assistant research professor of medicine at the University of Virginia Health Science Center. Neutrophils are white blood cells that find, engulf, and destroy foreign microbes.

Red blood cells, on the other hand, last longer--120 days for humans. They cannot, however, reproduce themselves. That's the price these cells pay for specialization. They must rely on another kind of cell (undifferentiated stem cells) to replace dead red blood cells.

And that brings us to an example of a long-living cell: stem cells last a lifetime maintaining a lifelong supply of both red and white blood cells for an individual.

Even longer lived are bacteria spore, which can live much longer lives than the parent bacteria. If a bacteria senses bad times (for example, a drought), says Sullivan, it forms spores to suspend animation and wait out the life-threatening conditions.

Spore found recently in New Mexico may have waited 250 million years for the right conditions reports John Fleck in the Albuquerque Journal and others in national news. Pennsylvania biologists William Rosenzweig and Russell Vreeland and New Mexico biologist Dennis Powers announce an amazing feat. Two thousand feet under the ground at Carlsbad, New Mexico, they found spore in tiny water bubbles contained in 250-million-year-old rock salt from a vanished inland sea. They brought the spore back to life and grew bacteria from them!

Rosenzweig tested the genetic material and discovered the bacteria are related to modern Dead Sea bacteria. The team took such pains in preventing contamination that R. John Parkes of the University of Bristol in Britain praised their effort in Nature.

Such findings make us wonder about the life spans of cells. Are dormant bacteria essentially immortal?
Source: http://www.wonderquest.com/CellsLifeSpan.htm
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2.Lets take a counter arguement...by the same logic,a 'thing' which doesn't propogate is dead...so are all the trees,algae,fungi etc dead?

Even Electro magnetic waves propogate in fact they r the most propogative things in the universe FASTER THAN ANY THING ELSE IN THE UNIVERSE.So they must be the most 'living' things rather than the lowly humans who only can travel at mach 25 (space shuttle at re-entry)

3.Who says living beings should grow?Unicellular organisms remain just that-unicellular their whole life(if u concider growing up as cell multiplication)
 
so in that manner wat will u define or differntiate between a dead and a living thing,

even computer programs do fit in the bill!!!!

and even they considered as living though...

@kumar--thats the thing, is that what we really call as dead is just flawed by our parochial thinking or dictionary from which we derive our premise or base logic ????????????
 
Anything organic that shows basic charactaristics of life is alive.

1.Growth

2.Reproduction

3.Interaction

4.Adoption

Any organic matter that shows any one of the above symptoms is alive ;)
 
hmmn what wud define a organic matter as then?

dont tell me carbon bodies@@@

and why limit urself to organic,,,??

if the same pattern is seen even in inorganic stuff

aint ur premise faulty?????

even carbon matter which is dead shows 1 of above four characteristics

like crystallization of carbon by nucleation

and adaptation and interaction, plzz specify???????
 
Well the only thing that seperates living beings with non-living things biologically is the ability to reproduce.

Biologically the only reason for u to be alive and the first duty of each and evry living thing is to reproduce and increase the members of our own kind.

IMHO the best answer for this is given in wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life
 
Viking thats exactly why i said organic matter.

type this is google "define: Organic" ) remove space after :

And no carbon crystal shown none of the above properties by itself.

It cannot interact, it cannot reproduce, it cannot grow on its own without anything else affecting it.

What is alive and dead concept is clean in even 4th standard child to that matter ;)
 
kumar said:
Well the only thing that seperates living beings with non-living things biologically is the ability to reproduce.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life
Click to expand...

but this reproduction happens from the inorganic substances that we interact with or consume or energy in any form is required for it,and ability to reproduce or cloning is seen in various inorganic forms too, take for example computer viruses or algorithms.
funkymonkey said:
Viking thats exactly why i said organic matter.

type this is google "define: Organic" ) remove space after :

And no carbon crystal shown none of the above properties by itself.

It cannot interact, it cannot reproduce, it cannot grow on its own without anything else affecting it.

What is alive and dead concept is clean in even 4th standard child to that matter ;)
Click to expand...

well funky self nucleation is shown in graphite crystals and it is proven if right conditions are maintained,

and when u say interaction and adaptation there are various "livinG matter" which are now extinct due to non adaptation

and non interaction with nature,

well afaik the evolution of life started out , from inorganic and both organic mix,

well there might be hydrocarbons percentage far more on mother earth, but that does not mean any inorganic thing if shows the same characteristics is not alive.

And why do u think that we are unable to findout any living organisms on other heavenly bodies except earth, bcoz it might

just be that they have adapted to inorganic life form due to its ambience, Why dont we adapt ourselves to boling acid

and water , if someone cannot reproduce then , as per ur definition is he DEAD.

so is infertility the sign of DEATH, and is non adaption or non interaction with surounding fauna a sign of nonliving organism,

Then my friend, u will classify most of the brain dead people and mentally retardede and infertile people as dead.

funkymonkey said:
It cannot interact, it cannot reproduce, it cannot grow on its own without anything else affecting it.

What is alive and dead concept is clean in even 4th standard child to that matter ;)
Click to expand...

please explain that"It cannot interact, it cannot reproduce, it cannot grow on its own without anything else affecting it."

And well on ur 4th standard quote above, this is the same pat answer i used to receive from my teachers then in 4th grade

as "dont ask such stupid questions its not going to asked in your exams"

and that is why , i feel we only think what has been taught us to think, we only know wat has been told us to know,

we only see what is shown to us,

And beyond it we never traverse as we dont have enough gumption to do so, or we are still "MATRIXED"( pardon for this

but i am huge fan of the philosophy behind matrix)
 
lolz me a believer of matrix in a different way!
I believe this whole world is nothing but a game of sims in which the player is god.

It may also be remembered that a virus or any program is not a "Thing" but a pirticular string of instructions to make the computer work.So in itself a program is not a entity.
 
funkymonkey said:
Anything organic that shows basic charactaristics of life is alive.
1.Growth
2.Reproduction
3.Interaction
4.Adoption
Any organic matter that shows any one of the above symptoms is alive ;)
Click to expand...

Would you consider a Star to have a life?
A star is 'born'
It sustains itself
it 'dies'

It even agrees with the premise that life brings forth life. How do you think we're here? There's be no life on Earth if it weren't for the Sun.

Another interesting point to moot on is the fact that both, things considered living and things considered dead, are made of the same matter. If you zoom right down to the micro-level, you'll wouldn't be able to notice the difference. So, does life NOT exist at the micro level? Does it only exist at the macro level?
Or, is life everpresent at the micro-level (atoms interact, reproduce, grow etc.) and selectively present at the macro-level?
Or finally (now comes the big question) is life omnipresent but appears otherwise only because of our limited ability to comprehend it?

not that I'm a religious person or anything, but all religions, all philosophies mention that God (akin to Life) is omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient, and again it's a failure on our part to fully understand it.
 
I came across a very interesting read, after going through this discussion.

Building Life From Star-Stuff

How this star-stuff came together to form life is still a mystery, but scientists know that certain atomic combinations were necessary. Water - two hydrogen atoms linked to one oxygen atom -was vital to the development of life on Earth, and so NASA missions now search for water on other worlds in the hopes of finding life elsewhere. Organic molecules built mostly of carbon atoms are also thought to be important, since all life on Earth is carbon-based.

The most popular theories of the origin of life say the necessary chemistry occurred at hydrothermal vents on the ocean floor or in some sunlit shallow pool. However, discoveries in the past few years have shown that many of the basic materials for life form in the cold depths of space, where life as we know it is not possible.
Click to expand...

the rest is continued at Physorg.com
 
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