Demonetisation and its Aftermath

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Lord Nemesis said:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...es-under-I-T-scanner/articleshow/55444570.cms

Not sure where this will go or if it will ultimately get suppressed like the Adani case.

The invitations he sent out for the wedding apparently cost 1.5~2 lac each and he supposedly gave away 1 crore as gift to every one who attended. This is while common people were standing in lines for days tying to withdraw their own money from banks and ATM's.
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I am sure his wealth was all hard-earned white cash.
 
The only thing that felt really off for me was that the Hindi and English text for Reserve Bank of India aren't aligned. tbh, I don't care about how a note looks aesthetically as long as it serves its purpose but that will probably make someone with OCD go crazy.
 
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The amount of times 2000 has been written on the note make it seem like the person was forgetting what note he was working on. Each and every corner has a 2000 near it. Same with the 500 note.

What's getting me more irked or worked up is news papers and channels still calling it demonetization or note ban of higher currency when - new higher currency notes are being circulated and even used for bribing now. I feel like sending letters to newspapers and tv channels asking them to stop misusing the word.[DOUBLEPOST=1479398906][/DOUBLEPOST]


I wonder how many people are running out of petty cash to buy food now. Modi says wait for 50 days. I wonder how many people will die due to hunger in these 50 days? Whoever gave him the idea to remove the notes from circulation should be fired asap. What a moron!

This govt will lose elections because of this bad move. Guaranteed.
 
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http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...workers-into-begging/articleshow/55445354.cms

Many daily wage workers forced into begging after losing livelihood due to non availability of cash.

I wonder if any legal proceedings can be done against the PM and FM for gross negligence in handling their duties that's resulting in so much suffering. I know its wishful thinking to expect that corrupt govt's drunk on power can ever be taken to task in this country and they ensure immunity for themselves to boot, but I would like to see these politicians get their due. Even a doctor is not immune to consequences when its clear that a patient is harmed because of gross negligence.

Not only are people dying waiting in lines, but now there are cases of overworked and stressed out bank staff collapsing or dying.

While the people are suffering to get their own money from banks, Several BJP leaders were enjoying themselves on the grand festivities thrown by G. Jhanardhan Reddy for his daughters wedding using his ill gotten wealth. How was he not even affected by the ban which happened before the wedding. Surely, it cannot be coincidence that he has everything ready by that time. Many of the media sources seem to be terribly understating the expenditure incurred for that wedding. The saree that his daughter wore was apparently worth 17 crore. The menu for the wedding feast comprised of over 1000 different items. This is supposedly the costliest wedding in India and it was done at a time when the people were being forced to wait in line for days to get Rs 500 of their own money. Now, I am hearing that some people close to BJP not only had prior knowledge about the ban, but also had access to the new currencies (Rs 2000)

Its been two weeks now and I still have no luck getting any money from ATM's. Most of the ATM's are not even getting refilled and indefinitely closed. Most of my colleagues at work are in same position. Even those with access to online shopping, banking and cards cannot manage everything with those instruments. How do people pay a domestic help her wages through online banking.
 
Lord Nemesis said:
Why not when its such a very important factor when dealing with village folk. Even otherwise, village folk can be very very nasty and cruel towards others while city folk usually just tend to be indifferent and selfish.Granted that there are people with close knit relationships , but when you try to say that village folk are all more humanitarian, its a rather over optimistic and rosy picture you are painting. Maybe you should take a look at one of the villages (one of many) where a girl and her family were boycotted by entire village because she didn't commit suicide as per directions of the village elders after she got raped.



No, I was (and still I am) pretty sure that BJP is no different than congress about corruption and that its laughable that there are people who believe their fairy tales of stopping corruption and its proven to be pretty much right. Any thing they would do will be to line up their own pockets or hit back at their opponents. The audacity of introducing a Rs 2000 note while talking about stopping corruption pretty much shows that. A govt which is even distantly interested in putting an end to corruption will not introduce a new currency note which serves no purpose other than to help hoarders. In fact, any govt which is interested in ending corruption would first attack the political/religious donations which is one of the biggest loop holes in the system for black money. And that wouldn't even require lashing out at the people who have nothing to do with black money. People are delusional if they really think that this govt has any interest in getting rid of corruption.

Some of the things they do might be indirectly beneficial by coincidence while they go about their own personal agenda, but that's about it. Just look at what happened to the Adani investigations and to the people who put so much energy in taking them to task for the corruption. All because they are pretty tight with Modi.




If somebody says that its necessary for them to hurt/kill the victims and bystanders just so they can get the criminals, that simply shows how incapable, useless, ignorant and lazy they are. Even more pea-brained are the people who think that sort of approach is perfect. What next? What next? Maybe we should get Pak, China or US to nuke our country? After all, that would not only get rid of thousands of black money hoarders for good, but also solve our population problem. After all, you were saying that collateral damage is acceptable.

Even a 10 year old would have a better grip on fundamentals of justice and may be even come up with a better strategy.
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You're conveniently forgetting the horrible rape and murder in the center of the capital, such instances will be there on either side, but villages would fair better in interdependency in such circumstances.

Amount of corruption in a political party will be proportional to number of years they're in power. By those numbers alone, BJP will be 5 times less corrupt than Congress even if you don't count the number of scams in each of their tenures. It is a routine practice from Congress to paint every other political party as equally corrupt (just to duck from their responsibilities) , which is far from truth. Again I'm not telling BJP isn't corrupt, it's lesser of the evils.

You're thereotically correct (but that's where it ends) when you say that , when such a move is carried out common man should not be troubled. But practically it is never so, if such a move was to be carried out any day with any amount of planning the inconvenience wasn't avoidable. Had it been pretty well informed, it'd have lost its relevance. Had not every one required to do their bit to legitimize their own money, they'd have helped the hoarders.

Do you think that, Our so called common man doesn't have any role in black money economy? We as a people support black money economy when a product is offered at a lesser price without bill, we people take money for voting someone, where do you think the money will come from? Rs 500 is the average charge for converting Rs 4000 currently , who is helping the hoarders? The same common man. We're paying for our willful ignorance on aiding black money economy for smaller monitory gains.

http://www.newscrunch.in/2016/08/vi...-counted-payment-–-where-he-really-video.html

Government gave enough options for people to change their modes of dealing ; free bank accounts for everyone, free insurance to those bank accounts, cap on max cash transactions, real estate transactions, did the people mend their ways? No, so Somewhere someone has to take a bold step. When CNG was made mandatory for public transportation in Delhi it was huge chaos. But that change ensured improved quality of life for years, so its short inconvenience which will bring long term benefits. Govt will not fuel violence but the hoarders will, they'll use every possible way to reduce their losses, after all they're not just tax evaders but could be criminals etc.

So thereotically you're right, but thereotically if you remember correctly, Trump shouldn't have won even Republican primary candidature , practically he's a president elect now. So thereotically even a 10yr old can come up with a seemingly fool proof plan but practically he cannot even give a legally valid consent and cannot be held responsible for his actions.

By mentioning Adani, you've given very good suggestion which needs to be acknowledged. The next thing this govt should do is to bring the political parties under the framework of RTI and transparency in political donations in the country. The whole opposition isn't providing any constructive solution to the problem, they've just lost the track and ineffective. Congress is not with AAP & TMC, Kejri is making baseless allegations, Gulam Nabi is comparing it with Uri attacks.

BTW the best side effect of Demonetisation that , stone pelting in Kashmir has stopped, probably the same people are Qing to convert their Masters money!

http://m.deccanherald.com/articles..../581113/kashmir-sees-sharp-decline-stone.html

I'm not saying this will be the final fight on corruption and black money economy but a definitive start has been made, it's a welcome decision.
Its A short term inconvenience with long term implications for cleaning up this filth. That's the reason most of the neutral observers like foreign media, Anna hazare & even political adversaries like Nitish Kumar have hailed this move.
 
^^LOL another "short inconvenience"/"kuch acche ke liye kuch bura" guy. I guarantee you this, if these guys had to queue up in front of banks everyday to use their own money the phrase "short inconvenience"/"kuch acche ke liye kuch bura" etc would disappear from any known language. You have your PayTM, your CC and when short on grocery you will order in from Pizza Hut. Anyone else suffering is due to his own fault. The callousness in some people is staggering. This lack of empathy for your fellow countrymen hurts this country far worse than any Black Money ever could.

Saw this on twitter earlier.

CxcmW22UQAAnLcM.jpg

The incompetence is really boggling my mind. If I, as an employee of the private sector did something like this on a tiny, tiny scale that only affected my company I would be fired so fast I wouldnt have time to clean my desk drawer. Only in government and politics can not only this level of incompetence not only tolerated but even defended.
 
http://www.hindustantimes.com/india...d-misuse-fm/story-5ZKXp34TAC39qWLSRX23BK.html

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...pushkar-fair-no-money-demonetisation-4379462/

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/money-and-banking/ncr-india/article9354128.ece

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india...rupee-notes/story-7QLUSRJCsCjtcmKCP5ex8I.html

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...-currency-ban-no-salaries-tamil-nadu-4379443/

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com...ash-rush-at-banks-continue/article9332547.ece

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...on-arun-jaitley-currency-black-money-4380591/

http://www.hindustantimes.com/busin...black-money/story-vlTbd6oixy6M4DnH65dWxI.html

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...tisation-delhi-atm-rush-500-1000-ban-4379642/

http://www.hindustantimes.com/analy...ve-the-news/story-ZoCRmeRgC8WTrRlKvs5wYI.html

Now, let us go back to talking about black money, greater good, terrorism etc. Jai Hind! Jai Modi!

#SoProd
 
While I still support the demonetization move, am deeply disappointed at the introduction of new 500 and 2000 rs. notes. No longer feel 100% convinced about the whole thing. I wholeheartedly agree this has been managed absolutely terribly. The government's actions are reactionary rather than anticipatory.
 
drkrack said:
I'm not saying this will be the final fight on corruption and black money economy but a definitive start has been made, it's a welcome decision.
Its A short term inconvenience with long term implications for cleaning up this filth. That's the reason most of the neutral observers like foreign media, Anna hazare & even political adversaries like Nitish Kumar have hailed this move.
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The point is that none of the black money hoarders are suffering or at least anywhere close to as much as the people who are not. In fact, new black money businesses are cropping up and parallel economies are getting created just because of this. So, what is the point left in this? If this were indeed meticulously planned, it could have been executed with extreme precision without having to compromise confidentiality or on the other hand inflicting collateral damage.

I don't buy the argument that so much collateral damage is mandatory for fighting corruption. It directly reflects on the poor capability of the people handling the decision making. Imagine a situation where 100 people were taken hostage by 5 terrorists and the squad that is called in to neutralize the situation rushes in without proper preparation or plan resulting in 90 people dying, would it be called a successful operation? What if all those people got killed from he bullets of the SWAT team rather than because of the terrorists? They have simply defeating the purpose of the operation. That is what the present situation is like.

What's even worse is that it looks like this never was about stopping corruption (at any level) in the first place and more of a means to get gain some advantages for the elections. Otherwise there was absolutely no reason to rush it. If the Rs 2000 note is not enough indicator of the fact, there are now some news doing the rounds that BJP close aides may have had access to not just info about the ban, but to the new currency itself.

At a top level, black money can be loosely broken down into two categories. Most of the small scale hoarding is by doctors, lawyers or business men who do earn their money, but just don't want to pay the taxes on it. The big wig politicians however do not even earn their money through hard work. They get it by stealing or as bribes and things of those sort. It is easy money for them. These are the kind of people who would casually throw away crores of rupees in cash every year in the temples or even the gutters just because they do not have enough storage space or because they currently don't have the means to move it outside the country or possibly make it white. 99% of their black money will be moving around in the market or sitting in foreign currencies. They don't give a damn about losing easy money (in cash) because they can earn more of it later.

There isn't a single politician out there who is affected by demonetization. Look at how every politician is busy trying to score some brownie points than being concerned about losing money. The only way being deprived of black money cash reserves hurts politicians is during elections. Its open knowledge that every one of these parties (BJP, Congress, AAP and the local parties) rely on "cash for vote" for which black money in cash is required. By doing demonetization, the black money reserves of these opponents will be eliminated giving an advantage to those with access to black money in valid currencies.

I agree that 99% of the people in our country are corrupted and that is the curse of our country, but you should also understand that in a democracy, the govt is just a bunch of servants hired by the people to help them get various facilities and services for their benefit and for which they pay the taxes. The govt is therefore answerable to the tax payers. The govt is not some high and mighty organization that is above and beyond the people or obligated to get taxes just because. The sole reason for fighting black money is because it is an injustice to the people paying the taxes if somebody else is looting that money or even enjoying the facilities without paying for it. The moment a govt hurts even a single honest tax payer, they have defeated the purpose for their existence. It doesn't matter what their intentions are or how many willing masochistic followers they have.
 
The KeyboardBhakts have infiltrated every last bastion :p. I've never felt so "poor" ever. Think twice before spending those "hard earned" hunners. On the other hand the credit card bill is going crazy, so much so that my bank decided to increase my credit limit!
 
If Modi was really looking to end hoarding of black money in India, he should have made this move permanent.
Like someone pointed it out earlier, this isn't demonetization unless the higher currency notes are removed permanently.
The major impact of this move was supposed to be that we start using other forms of money than cash. This would mean that more and more small transactions would come under tax scanner and also a lot of money that doesn't get charged as VAT etc. because people pay cash and don't take receipts or get bills made for lower amount won't be able to do so.
In return we need to strengthen our consumer laws so that people who have paid so much indirect taxes find that taking a proper bill helps them a lot in case of any misdemeanor by the seller.
However, since everyone knows that the new money will be available soon, not even one of these small time shopkeepers have changed their ways. Like I have said earlier that they are ready to lend stuff and even if their current black money deposits might have been rendered useless, they are ready to start building again.
So, for me, this is just another half measure meant to garner votes. Hopefully other people can also see this for the farce it is.
 
this govt has got many things right, few things wrong since they came to power but this move is a humongous blunder. will cost the economy & the poor more than any blackwallas and very well might cost bjp the elections

till now people were just in shock or didnt know what to make of it. the anger and frustration is only going to worsen now
 
drkrack said:
Government gave enough options for people to change their modes of dealing ; free bank accounts for everyone, free insurance to those bank accounts, cap on max cash transactions,
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A lot of people seem to raise this some what invalid argument. There are reasons why even a country like USA that is labeled as a developed country and with all the banking options, digital wallets and payment modes still is not cashless and still has paper and coin currency. There are people without bank accounts even there. If becoming cashless is still a pipe dream there, what are you expecting from India.

In fact, the present situation is a very good example of why a lot of people with low wages and small savings don't want to rely on banks because they will be at the mercy of whims and wishes of their govt's and the banks and will not have access to their own money when they need it. It is a pipe dream to think that the country can suddenly go cashless because everybody has been forced to get a bank account. Ever tried ordering Rs 50 worth of groceries on big basket or paying for the same at a super market with a cheque?

Furthermore, a bank is not obligated to return your money when you need it. If they have a crunch for what ever reason including poor business decisions or giving out loans which could not be recovered, they can deny you access to your own account. Whether you have 2 Lac or 10 Lac or 50 Lac in your account, by RBI directives, Rs 1 Lac (used to be 50k earlier) is the max guarantee that a bank gives and it still does not ensure that you will have access to it when you need it. This is exactly why it is recommended that you do not keep all your money in a single account. There was a time several years back when ICICI ran into a crunch due to a chain of events and froze all cash withdrawals and later even transfers from the customer accounts. In addition a govt can also seize the funds held by the people in bank accounts if the govt wants it. Normally they don't go that route outside of extraordinary circumstances like an economic recession, but most govt's in the world hold that authority.

Even under normal circumstances, countless times, I have seen people being denied access at post offices and banks where they saved their money, particularly at nationalized banks like SBI. So I can perfectly understand why people who have to rely on petty cash for everyday needs and small scale transactions are reluctant to rely on banks. I myself faced problems with SBI numerous times.

The biggest irony is that while the govt touted this as a move to attack hoarders. The people who are in the most comfortable position presently are hoarders who accumulated loads of cash in Rs 100 denominations while all the people who kept their money in banks are suffering.
 
^^ Another thing to add is that if they were so against corruption then they should have started by announcing that BJP won't accept any donations via cash and they would have posted all the data about the money they spent on the election.
 
Lord Nemesis said:
Its been two weeks now and I still have no luck getting any money from ATM's. Most of the ATM's are not even getting refilled and indefinitely closed. Most of my colleagues at work are in same position. Even those with access to online shopping, banking and cards cannot manage everything with those instruments. How do people pay a domestic help her wages through online banking.
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Even if we pay someone through mobile or online payment, what will that person do if he or she cannot go to the bank and withdraw the money? Online banking is just as useless now for last mile payment.

Even I'm in the same situation like you. Just have Rs 200 and some odd rupees left and need to buy rice, sugar and dal. Tried all online grocery apps, shops etc and none of them ship to my address. None of the shops have credit card facilities. Nearest mall is around 3Km away and costs Rs 60 for one way by auto. If I spend on auto I wont have any money to spend on anything else. I'll have to stay at home till i get cash from the ATM. There are 4-5 ATM's near my place and no need to guess about them. Even in normal days those atm's used to have a line of people or used to go out of service suddenly. What use is being a good tax paying citizen if the govt kicks us like this when we are struggling?

I read this in Mid-Day yesterday. Even worse than me are poor people in Palghar area who are living on half a plate of boiled rice every day. No money to buy vegetables or any baby food. Even their infants are fed boiled rice.
I won't vote for BJP or Congress in the coming election. I'll just put the rubber stamp in all fields and invalidate the vote. I hate this govt now.
 
^ same. Have 300 bucks in card and 1k in purse. all the money is in dads' account and he's in another state and dont have netbanking enabled. My friends bailed me out. But all others might not be so lucky.
 
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