Double standards for Bhopal gas tragedy victims ?

[MAGNeT]

As we all know how shameful it has been

After 26 years just 2 years prison..whereas it should had been the converse in 2 years 26 years prison...

But what is so shameful to see is we know we cant expect anything from the politicians but the judiciary(the supreme court itself) pave the path to such result

Around 1994-1996 the supreme court judge absolved charges of culpable homicide on the accuse to charges whose outcome u see now

And yesterday the same judge on the channel says "We all own cars. If my driver is involved in a fatal accident I don’t become liable under Section 304 (Part II) (culpable homicide not amounting to murder)"

Was the life of 25000 people who died and lakhs who still suffer is so cheap(that a logic argument decide faith of this people )

Also another side The us instead of talking about extradition says after the outcome of this judgment they expect no further litigation or stuff on it...And when talk about extradition we dont comment onsuch issues on channel plus extraditing a 90 year person is never on their cards..But in past they were not even ready to accept the accuse stays in their country

For BP oil spill the obama administration wants money to save every dolphin and in billions but no talk about the 20000+ plus people who died in the country and were given paltry 300-500$ and some still havent received any

Dow says we bought the company excluding its liability so no chat regarding the topic should be done(how can such stuff be possible..and Indian court now says Union carbide india is separate than union carbide US...It itself pave the path or created for all of them to go scot free)

Even citizens in US have been trying hard to bring anderson back to the country but the shameful point is our own country is not interested in same and never send any documents regarding same

On contrary the liability bill of nuclear also works on same path..If their is any fault in the boilers and other us stuff the countries arent liable and our own country will pay peanuts for nuclear disaster and we know if that happen it will be a bigger case than bhopal ...500 crore to 10 lakh victim..U people do the calculation

God save us from such leaders,officials and even from our country and US whose double standards is well known

 

[m-jeri]

what else can be done?.

This is India.

If one or two top political honchos also die then we see something

 

[matrixvipin]

So sad and now there will be huge pressure for kangress to make changes in nuke liability bill also.

 

[6pack]

Fill in the blanks:

__________ in abundance has no value.

1. life

2. money

3. anything

 

[MAGNeT]

what else can be done?.

This is India.

If one or two top political honchos also die then we see something

Atleast they shouldnt have given the judgement if they had to give such stuff at first place...If the judgement had come after anderson dead it too would had done...But it has shown the true face of USA who on one side tries to be big brother but when it comes under liability for its wrong coming its not ready to help

The only thing now is atleast their should be atleast more than 10000 crore liability payment stuff(per incident) in nuclear liability bill..with each of them holding responsibility of any accident(govt and the service provider)

Or in future we will be the victim same as the bhopal tragedy

 

[matrixvipin]

^ yes and after tragedy US and wolrd will provide new reactors with new safe guards with more bills and small liability.

 

[saumilsingh]

As unsatisfying as it may be, in this case punishment was more about deterrence (liability, make them pay!) than any real justice.
There was no justice to be had here since there was no crime so to say (no motive or intention).

What's sad is that it took this long to even deliver a sentence.

 

[mahistuffs]

US always has double standards, when it comes to US citizens vs Others. Indian citizen's life has no value when compared to US citizens and they do everything and force everyone to act when a US citzen's life is threatened.

Few recent news I can think about.

1. US shoots and kills a 14year old boy who threw stones at an US officer in Mexico border...just imagine what would have happened if its the Mexico police

2. US has recently announced it would launch an attack against Pakistan terror camps if any terrorist bombing in US is traced to Pakistan. And even if we prove it time and time again...we still cant and should not act against the terror camps.

3. The BP oil spill has limit on its liability, but US has mentioned and BP has agreed it will not stick to the limit and I believe the current spending's are more than the limit documented.

4. last year or the year before, US bombed a building in some African nation and it was later found to be a school and killed scores of children...

...the list could go on...

 

[blr_p]

As we all know how shameful it has been

Was the law followed or not ?

After 26 years just 2 years prison..whereas it should had been the converse in 2 years 26 years prison...

Public sentiment, not law

But what is so shameful to see is we know we cant expect anything from the politicians but the judiciary(the supreme court itself) pave the path to such result

Politicans should NOT interfere in the process of the law.

Around 1994-1996 the supreme court judge absolved charges of culpable homicide on the accuse to charges whose outcome u see now

Thats because there is no scope for vicarious responsibility in criminal law. See this

Why was his ruling not challenged at the time ? Could it be that there were no grounds to do it with

And yesterday the same judge on the channel says "We all own cars. If my driver is involved in a fatal accident I don’t become liable under Section 304 (Part II) (culpable homicide not amounting to murder)".

You disagree ?

Was the life of 25000 people who died and lakhs who still suffer is so cheap(that a logic argument decide faith of this people )

All depends on how much the law protects or not.

Also another side The us instead of talking about extradition says after the outcome of this judgment they expect no further litigation or stuff on it...And when talk about extradition we dont comment onsuch issues on channel plus extraditing a 90 year person is never on their cards..But in past they were not even ready to accept the accuse stays in their country

We've not charged this guy with anything yet have we so why are we talking about what the US will or won't do ?

For BP oil spill the obama administration wants money to save every dolphin and in billions but no talk about the 20000+ plus people who died in the country and were given paltry 300-500$ and some still havent received any

He might want it, does it mean he will get it ?

Forget what the politico's say, what is the legal liabilty that's the only thing that counts.

Dow says we bought the company excluding its liability so no chat regarding the topic should be done(how can such stuff be possible..and Indian court now says Union carbide india is separate than union carbide US...It itself pave the path or created for all of them to go scot free)

Even citizens in US have been trying hard to bring anderson back to the country but the shameful point is our own country is not interested in same and never send any documents regarding same

Its unfortunate this has been the outcome

On contrary the liability bill of nuclear also works on same path..If their is any fault in the boilers and other us stuff the countries arent liable and our own country will pay peanuts for nuclear disaster and we know if that happen it will be a bigger case than bhopal ...500 crore to 10 lakh victim..U people do the calculation

God save us from such leaders,officials and even from our country and US whose double standards is well known

Then now is the time to push for stronger protections in that bill. Bear in mind if it's too strong no company will setup shop here so risk has to be balanced with addressing electricity supply if we are to continue to grow.

Tamils & Gujju's have nuclear power, no leaks yet and I bet they have half the amount of power cuts my state faces based on its stand towards these issues :|

 

[m-jeri]

@MAgnet

u think i support the current ruling?. I was just stating the current state of affairs. What will happen if some folks post something online.

Nothing.

 

[Lord Nemesis]

US always has double standards, when it comes to US citizens vs Others. Indian citizen's life has no value when compared to US citizens and they do everything and force everyone to act when a US citzen's life is threatened.

Don't you think that's a tonne better than India where we have double standards wrt how two fellow countrymen are treated ? Do Indians poor/powerless/lower caste's/and whatever other distinction you can make ever get justice in our country? Maybe when we can destroy double standards in our country, we can start talking about double standards in other countries. What I see in you post is typical Indian mentality of how our people complain about someone else's house being dirty while ignoring that our own is filled with shit.

 

[asingh]

Was it because of US double standards or our shortcomings, that it took so long for a sentence to be delivered. Quite pathetic. There is justice in our country, but the path to reach it is much more painful, then actually the severity of the sentence. The seeker is hurt more than who should be bought to justice. It is quite shameful. A sentence like this should not even have been announced. It will give the world more of a chance to laugh at our country+system when they do the basic calculation:

Year of sentence - Year of incident.

 

[mahistuffs]

Don't you think that's a tonne better than India where we have double standards wrt how two fellow countrymen are treated ? Do Indians poor/powerless/lower caste's/and whatever other distinction you can make ever get justice in our country? Maybe when we can destroy double standards in our country, we can start talking about double standards in other countries. What I see in you post is typical Indian mentality of how our people complain about someone else's house being dirty while ignoring that our own is filled with shit.

I would have to agree with you. In India Money and Power play an important role...

 

[MAGNeT]

I would have to agree with you. In India Money and Power play an important role...

But is that so powerful that 15000 lives at one side and u still cant touch the person.......I never knew our constitution to be so weak

Now coming to nuclear liability bill..Its 500 crore on service provider with overall liability upto 2087 crore...

When asked why its pity Government says same..We are the one who needs it and if we keep it high no one will set shop...

But if u see in other part of world...Its 45000 crore in USA and 12000 crore in germany...Even country like finland has kept liability in the range of 10000 crore...Where does our liability claim stand?

ANd to add salt....All the nuclear service provider cant be bring to justice in civil court under any case of mishap.....Do u think such conditions should be accepted..Its the same way bhopal tragedy accused got scot free...Saying if my merc car is banged by my driver u cant sue the company merc for the mishap......But what didnot came on the table was in 1982 a detail report about such mishap to take place was put forward for both union carbide USA and INDIa plant....They took necessary action for US plants but not for INDIA.....Thats of-course negligence leading to culpable homicide rather than pure negligence

 

[blr_p]

Now coming to nuclear liability bill..Its 500 crore on service provider with overall liability upto 2087 crore...

Where did you get this figure from ?

My source says the 500 crore may be adjusted upward but there is no limit mentioned.

But if u see in other part of world...Its 45000 crore in USA and 12000 crore in germany...Even country like finland has kept liability in the range of 10000 crore...Where does our liability claim stand?

To be noted that the US liability is four times higher than in Europe. Our liability figures are lower.

All the nuclear service provider cant be bring to justice in civil court under any case of mishap.....Do u think such conditions should be accepted..

The article says that there will be no private companies involved except public ones.

At the meeting, Banerjee also assured the standing committee that the government had no intention of opening the atomic energy sector to the private sector. Now, the sector and all the plants are under the public sector.

 

[MAGNeT]

Where did you get this figure from ?

says the 500 crore may be adjusted upward but there is no limit mentioned.

http://epaper.dnaindia.com/epaperpdf\09062010\8main edition-pg18-0.pdf

To be noted that the US liability is four times higher than in Europe. Our liability figures are lower.

I gave the figures even country like finland about whom we know none has 10000 croroe limit...where does 500 croroe stand

The article says that there will be no private companies involved except public ones.

Thats just to make them have agreement here first once done ull see the picture

I invest in share market and have a tab on biggies Though at start BHEL (listed) and NPCIL(not listed) will be the beneficiary....But later products which even them cant manufactured companies like Areva t&d,siemens (german company) and L & t will become the main beneficiary as they themselves are provider of part in other countries...On contrary if the deal had happen siemens would had taken areva t&d as once the bill was passed in congress siemens gave news they trying to take hostile bid on the company as they will be the biggest beneficiary as they are the main producer of boilers of nuclear plant

 

[blr_p]

http://epaper.dnaindia.com/epaperpdf\09062010\8main edition-pg18-0.pdf

I was curious where the foreign figures came from and found..

Civil Liability for Nuclear Damage

It matches the figures for the various countries mentioned in your article but it also includes many more countries. Of note is how much was paid out in Japan in '99, the figure works out to about 3000 cr.

As i read through it i could not find any cap mentioned for other countries but the operators have to take a minimum insurance.

I gave the figures even country like finland about whom we know none has 10000 croroe limit...where does 500 croroe stand

So if 500 cr is too low for India then what kind of figure do you think is appropriate ?

 

[matrixvipin]

500cr is a joke. Even single IPL team is rich than this.:ermm:

 

[uziel]

Its no use focussing on outcome of one issue. The basic problem at grassroot level is that people mentality is this way. We are discussing 26 yrs old stuff and criticizing it but the reality is just now as you read post, same thing is happening somewhere and after another 20-30 years we will be discussing this again. Actually nothing changes, no one learns, the reality is that I n you when in similar situation will majorly follow what this and similar cases pattern is. What is important to think is when we talk to some one every one says this is bad and says wrong should not happen, then who is corrupt, why all this happens if every one is clean? The sad part is the wrong doers are always some one between us, some one related to us, some one known to us coz this world is a small place

 

[blr_p]

Actually, its no use discussing the Bhopal issue not for the fatalistic reasons you mentioned but simply as a question of law that there was no legal route possible to extract more otherwise you bet your life those wronged would have taken it. Ppl have to realise companies have lawyers that look into all these risk aspects and are covered in the worst case or if they had any brains at all they would not operate in the first place.

However what is certainly worth discussing is the future and thats to do with this liabilities bill.

As i read that document on civil liability elsewhere, realised that there is a minimum insurance cap which indicates what the company is liable for. There is a minimum specified by law in those countries but it does not mention a maximum. It comes out of whatever insurance company they take the policy out with. The company pays its preimums which it passes on to its customers.

So who picks up the gap once the insurers reach their cap, its the host govt, ie its taxpayers money. That's who picks up the remainder. Tho it says it works in a way that taxpayers don't get penalised in such a manner it did not go into much details. I'm guesssing setting the bar high enough goes some way towards protecting against this. So i guess, this is yet another very good reason to demand a higher cap

The other point about wanting larger penalties in these cases is that we do not have large payouts in this country for other kinds of wrongs, would setting the bar high in this instance change how much ppl could sue for in other unrelated civil lawsuits ?