Employee exploitation: Salary negotiation [Shameful]

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ashish

ashish

Forerunner
Need to ask few questions on salary negotiation part both for the employed and unemployed.

While seeking a job, a candidate is offered the mentioned salary hike criteria depending on co. or market standards. Now what are company standards and what is "as per market" exactly?

Then what about those who get away with as much as 50%, 100% and 120% hikes? Where does the so called Co. or market standards go then? Whats so special about such candidates?

Here is a case:

One of my ex-colleague is jobless since a year due to some personal and family affairs which made him threw himself out of gear to resolve those issues, having little room for himself. And now he is looking for job again as everything is resolved on personal front.

He was always in touch with his technologies regularly and also upgraded himself at a certain level.
He is 7 yrs exp guy with no issues cracking rounds etc.

But the main point comes once he reaches the venue and faces the HR before start of any interview rounds & then during the salary negotiation part after clearing all rounds.

He is disappointed being seen as some Criminal right from the beginning of the rounds. Just for the fact he has a Gap.
He is only offered either the last CTC or just for Name sake given just 3-5k odd hike on last ctc. just as alms or beggary.

The reason: GAP!

Why is the Gap material hyped so much? Why the discrimination and exploitation?

Why cant one see that the person available immediately for joining, he is afresh, he got those abilities and technicalities with his vast experience.

How they play the game?
Before shortlisting, co. agrees on the Expected ctc part, then comes the exploitation part after shortlisting & thereafter clearing all rounds. Then where do the company standards go?

Do cos. have different set of standards for Gap employees?
Does cos. got the rights to Manipulate their own standards just to exploit such poor but deserving candidates?

They know pretty well how to exploit such poor guys based on the job urgency need, financial needs, fear of gap increase etc. where they actually dominate and make say Yes to agree on so and so package.
Its like the HR Personally putting herself to exploit stating the gap, and you have to accept whatever comes to your plate and you cannot say NO to this job if you get selected?

Why the hell such a shameful non-sense of pure exploitation on such needy employees?
 
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Because its a business.

Nobody shames an employee when he / she rejects a joining on last day when he/ she gets a better offer.

The same story would be different if he gets a second offer and is better and he rejects the company

Hypocrites
 
Mind the GAP !

A friend of mine is going through the same shit. For a goddamn BPO voice calling executive level job. CC collections mostly. Never mind the fact that he's better at the actual job than 80% of the brain-dead parrots applying. Now he's trying commission based insurance sales. Excuses given to him are gap, lack of relevant experience(?), age (he's over 35)...
 
I really never tend to get the logic behind a gap. Just as op said, cos. overlook people with gaps as if they are terrorists. And they do exploit. Its very much true.

In my last organization we had few openings and the hiring went for almost two months and after screening/interviewing 150+ idiots we selected two GAPers among the five hired employees and and they got awarded for their performances etc.
They were true deserving knowledgeable people.
They were compensated as per co. standards and not exploited even though HR tried to bargain based on the obvious Gap shit, our managers acted fair.
Now it depends from co. as well if the manager plays any negotiation role or if it is purely in the hands of HR team.
I think manager should be given few rights in this regards.

Here is the HRs tedious funda. If an HR is given a job for hiring a specific candidate and when she find one and keeps exploiting him on certain silly points, ignore and continue till your selection. Once you are selected through all the rounds, then play the games. The HR will get literally pissed off and has to either bow down or move on.

So keep giving interviews and have multiple offers in hand. Then in turn jumble all the HRs with highest ctc figures as you have already won the battle. Show off your egos and attitudes then & they will surely cum licking at you. As they know their job is done as hey found the right candidate and the ball is in your court. Make the best off it!

Once my friend faked fake offer letter stating 50% hike after being through harassment from the HRs in another mnc during his interview rounds. He kept quite as he was highly confident of his selection. The guy passed 7 rounds and when it came to HR he asked for 75% raise. They denied and he shown her the offer letter. She was shocked and then he started his tongue battle, humiliated both the HRs with what not professional words and left them stranded. He also had a word the hiring manager stating "your HR failed to match my expectations and didnt impress me even after showing them a valid offer from another co. etc. Sorry to say but you lost a valuable candidate but I'm glad not being a part of such management"
That was awesome!

So even we can humiliate such idiots.
HR harass us in terms of policies and salaries, Manager harass us and make us to quit due to mental work torture.

Remember we have our own standards and respect so never fall off your dignity in toughest situations as well.
Quitting is not a defeat, it means you live up to your dignity and value yourself.
 
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delhiboy1 said:
Try marketing the gap as a 'Sabbatical" and accept the first offer. Make the switch quickly to be happy .

Most important at this stage would be to get back on the right bus and not wait forever.
Click to expand...
Sure everyone says so but here too most of them exploit you stating give us a long term guarantee for at least 2 years or sign a bond.
If you resign or leave within few months we wont process your balance salary and not give you any relieving documents.
 
There are two sides to it.

If you are not aware there are tons of people who fake their resumes and experience to get jobs. And whether it is right or wrong depends on the circumstances. Some of these guys are actually very smart and hardworking people - who actually start their career in some small time jobs like - building security, cashier etc. But there are others who pay up to 1.5 lakhs to get a "safe" IT job and unable to manage even a single thing.

The other side of things is what your friend is experiencing right now.

Now, how do you rectify this? Well, one way is to find a company which respects its employees. A good example of this is Morgan Stanely. My previous manager quit his job due to fight with upper management and did not work for 2 months. During the interview he never asked for a hike but MS was gracious enough to pay up 20% hike. Mind you I am talking about 35+ in salary.

Second and probably the best, take this in stride. Just take the job, get the career jump started. Sure 2 yr bond stings but is it worth to not get any salary for sometime? I also know someone who completed his PGDBM from IIM-B, got a high flying job in startup, the startup closed down. Then after spending some time in sabbatical he tried getting a job. He got some lowball offers which he rejected only to see no job for last 2 yrs.

Here's how your friend can improve his chances - First, negotiate hard on his salary. And negotiate really hard. When things come to an edge, say yes to the offer but tell them that not having bond is non-negotiable. And mind you, never sound desperate or in need. Be confident and good things will follow.
 
ashish said:
While seeking a job, a candidate is offered the mentioned salary hike criteria depending on co. or market standards. Now what are company standards and what is "as per market" exactly?

Then what about those who get away with as much as 50%, 100% and 120% hikes? Where does the so called Co. or market standards go then? Whats so special about such candidates?
Click to expand...

Compensation is an independent contract with the employee. Your compensation has nothing to do with the compensation of others. Pay scale slabs within the company and outside market levels are only for reference.

It does not mean that somebody with certain experience needs to be paid the same salary as somebody else with the same number of years of experience. Experience is subjective. During interviews, I have seen candidates with 10-12 years in the industry, but nothing to show for it and are on par with freshers.

Experience means wisdom and maturity and so, a person may just pass away years doing barely enough to retain a job and gain neither. So, logically speaking, If I want to be fair, I have to offer them the same designation and pay as the fresher even if they have been 10 years in the field.

Conversely, it also means that between two people with same years in the work, I can offer one 100 or 120% more than the other based on how I value their experience. If a company is paying 50%, 100% or 120% hikes, it means that the company is valuing their skills or experience enough to do that. But again, the flexibility changes from company to company.

ashish said:
One of my ex-colleague is jobless since a year due to some personal and family affairs which made him threw himself out of gear to resolve those issues, having little room for himself. And now he is looking for job again as everything is resolved on personal front.

He was always in touch with his technologies regularly and also upgraded himself at a certain level.
He is 7 yrs exp guy with no issues cracking rounds etc.

But the main point comes once he reaches the venue and faces the HR before start of any interview rounds & then during the salary negotiation part after clearing all rounds.

He is disappointed being seen as some Criminal right from the beginning of the rounds. Just for the fact he has a Gap.
Click to expand...

He is not being seen as some criminal, but just as someone with a gap in career. Most companies don't bother about gaps except when they see some other pattern like job hopping. Worst that could happen even in such a case is either that a offer is not made at all just out of caution or that candidate may have a longer probation period specified in the contract. Most companies don't discriminate on pay either if they see that the candidate is a good hire for the targeted role.

So when does low balling happen? Usually in IT services companies when they are just looking for more "heads" than people who can add value to the company. When you are being hired for just being another "head" in the head count, believe me, it is literally the HR's job to get the heads at the lowest cost they can and negotiating the lowest cost is a headline that will go into their own appraisal for them to earn their performance bonus. There is nothing wrong about this and it is not exploitation either. They frankly have no reason to hire the candidate at all. there are plenty of other heads. They hire 5000 to 10000 people in a campaign. They have no no targeted place for you to add value. They more than likely don't even have an immediate project to assign you into. They don't want you for your unique skills. They don't need you immediately. They don't need you any more than the next candidate they have lined up. When you are putting yourself in such a position, that is what you will get.

But even in such companies, there will be people that they will value for their skills or even just because of domain knowledge. I know many such people. I had a friend who was used to be in HCL Technologies and was offered a salary match with Intel amounting to a 125% hike when he wanted to resign. My own sister was offered a 40% increase by Wipro when she moved there from Satyam in the midst of its scandal. They offered even higher pay when she resigned 6 months later. All simply because the client who move from Satyam to Wipro made a voluntary recommendation.

If your ex-colleague has skills that can add value, he should target a company that can value those skills. If he just wants to be another head, there is no reason for them to hire one head over another except for cost and that is what they will do.


ashish said:
He is only offered either the last CTC or just for Name sake given just 3-5k odd hike on last ctc. just as alms or beggary.

The reason: GAP!

Why is the Gap material hyped so much? Why the discrimination and exploitation?

Why cant one see that the person available immediately for joining, he is afresh, he got those abilities and technicalities with his vast experience.
Click to expand...

I don't see what is wrong with being offered same CTC if the company thinks that is what you are worth to them. There are plenty of people who get offered same salary even without any gap and there are plenty who accept it too simply because they want to change jobs or because they want to move to another city etc. Heck, one of my former colleagues was made a offer by TCS that is 15% less than existing salary despite them knowing that he has another offer that is 32% more than existing. The HR even tried to convince him that TCS has "brand value"

In case of another colleague who was laid off, Accenture offered 50% of his previous salary. It was not unfair or exploitation either because for their own averages, that itself was pretty high.

The bottom line is that the company will offer you based on what they think you are worth to them. You accept that or reject and look for another company.

ashish said:
Do cos. have different set of standards for Gap employees?
Does cos. got the rights to Manipulate their own standards just to exploit such poor but deserving candidates?
Click to expand...

Again, there are no hard and fast standards to manipulate whether it is for initial salary or for subsequent hikes.

ashish said:
They know pretty well how to exploit such poor guys based on the job urgency need, financial needs, fear of gap increase etc. where they actually dominate and make say Yes to agree on so and so package.
Its like the HR Personally putting herself to exploit stating the gap, and you have to accept whatever comes to your plate and you cannot say NO to this job if you get selected?

Why the hell such a shameful non-sense of pure exploitation on such needy employees?
Click to expand...

Again it is the candidates need, not theirs. When they are looking for heads to hire all with the same every day skills, the only thing that differentiates one candidate form the next is who is willing to get hired for less. People with gaps may be ready to sign up for less, but again that is the candidates problem. Its not like they put a gun to the candidates head to make them sign the contract. You accept or move on. People don't deserve to get a job just because they need it when they have the same skills as every other guy in the room.

There are plenty of people that I know who got laid off or had to take gaps and it didn't stop them from scoring good job offers. One of my former managers had 3 gaps amounting to 2+ years over the course his career.
 
Last edited:
nRiTeCh said:
I really never tend to get the logic behind a gap. Just as op said, cos. overlook people with gaps as if they are terrorists. And they do exploit. Its very much true.

In my last organization we had few openings and the hiring went for almost two months and after screening/interviewing 150+ idiots we selected two GAPers among the five hired employees and and they got awarded for their performances etc.
They were true deserving knowledgeable people.
They were compensated as per co. standards and not exploited even though HR tried to bargain based on the obvious Gap shit, our managers acted fair.
Now it depends from co. as well if the manager plays any negotiation role or if it is purely in the hands of HR team.
I think manager should be given few rights in this regards.

Here is the HRs tedious funda. If an HR is given a job for hiring a specific candidate and when she find one and keeps exploiting him on certain silly points, ignore and continue till your selection. Once you are selected through all the rounds, then play the games. The HR will get literally pissed off and has to either bow down or move on.

So keep giving interviews and have multiple offers in hand. Then in turn jumble all the HRs with highest ctc figures as you have already won the battle. Show off your egos and attitudes then & they will surely cum licking at you. As they know their job is done as hey found the right candidate and the ball is in your court. Make the best off it!

Once my friend faked fake offer letter stating 50% hike after being through harassment from the HRs in another mnc during his interview rounds. He kept quite as he was highly confident of his selection. The guy passed 7 rounds and when it came to HR he asked for 75% raise. They denied and he shown her the offer letter. She was shocked and then he started his tongue battle, humiliated both the HRs with what not professional words and left them stranded. He also had a word the hiring manager stating "your HR failed to match my expectations and didnt impress me even after showing them a valid offer from another co. etc. Sorry to say but you lost a valuable candidate but I'm glad not being a part of such management"
That was awesome!

So even we can humiliate such idiots.
HR harass us in terms of policies and salaries, Manager harass us and make us to quit due to mental work torture.

Remember we have our own standards and respect so never fall off your dignity in toughest situations as well.
Quitting is not a defeat, it means you live up to your dignity and value yourself.
Click to expand...

So quitting after a certain period is best to counter work harassment from boss?
 
Honestly this depends on a case to case basis and how needy you are. My wife quit her previous job as both the company and the work environment was horrible. She finally found the right fit after around 6 months and when it came to salary negotiation, I told her to play hardball and not bother to even talk if they don't give her the number she wanted(~50% increase). Its not like she absolutely needed the job so if the need be she could have just as well chilled at home a little bit longer. She didn't have to negotiate at all - they straightaway offered her what she asked for.
 
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