Forum Feedback Enough is Enough - STOP ConDeals on TE

[TheITWares]

@ Renegade - Yes its ok if u do that but why are you complicating the process by appointing Volunteers for every city.

Instead y not TE just open 1 Bank A/c for this and make a Mail id for the same and give access to all the mods and staff the access to the Mail id.

You people take payments from us anyways as Dealer Fees so take Payments for this too you can earn 1% also if u like on every deal.

 

[greenhorn]

support stuff has enough work as it is, and they do this on a volunteer basis. this would require full time work, and may possibly involve red tape

 

[TheITWares]

We are trying towards securing the Deals between members here where 2nd Hand parts are involved. That has nothing to do with my sales here.

Rahul, If I were you, I wouldnt bother. After all, As a dealer , you would stand to benefit from all the con deals indirectly, as people would rather buy from a regd dealer who can be trusted, and is known for their professional service, as opposed to some random guy.

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support stuff has enough work as it is, and they do this on a volunteer basis. this would require full time work, and may possibly involve red tape

Give the authority to check mails to every Mod and staff here someone at least 1 will be free at any given point of time.

 

[Renegade]

You people take payments from us anyways as Dealer Fees so take Payments for this too you can earn 1% also if u like on every deal.

You dont come back to us and raise a dispute. You are just 6-7 of you. The payment is taken once in 3 months. The people who manage this are already sick of it so we will be increasing the minimum payment period to 6 months soon. Now compare that to the number of deals that happen on TE.

Besides we are not even sure of the legal ramifications that this can carry in case of a dispute.

 

[DigitalDude]

You dont come back to us and raise a dispute. You are just 6-7 of you. The payment is taken once in 3 months. The people who manage this are already sick of it so we will be increasing the minimum payment period to 6 months soon. Now compare that to the number of deals that happen on TE.

Besides we are not even sure of the legal ramifications that this can carry in case of a dispute.

there.. this is THE problem for an escrow type of system.
_

 

[Khimera]

Actually, the more i think about it, i think TE should be less involved in Market Deals or any money oriented deals.TE has given a platform to exchange/buy goods which is good enough. And beyond ip banning and banning the member, Rest everything should be left on users conscience and caution. If as a community the members want to help by themselves, then they can, rather than getting TE involved. Not many ppl like responsibility, Not many ppl have time for this. So it all boils down to the members on how and how much they can help if they want to help. Beyond this, the user/seller should realize, if they want 100% proper deal, then go to the local stores and buy the goods. If you are buying from online forums, then be prepared to go through something like this if necessary.

 

[Safin]

We are trying towards securing the Deals between members here where 2nd Hand parts are involved. That has nothing to do with my sales here.



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Give the authority to check mails to every Mod and staff here someone at least 1 will be free at any given point of time.

For starters the account will have to be current account.

Second here is a possibility. Yes most days there are people here 24X7. But some days there aren't. Someone pays a huge amount. And its not processed. I am sure you will be the first guy ringing our bell (whose bell is another problem. There is no single central contact.)

Think about it and you will realize somethings don't work out on volunteer basis.

 

[major9]

Middlemen will be another problem soon. What I would say is increase the no. of posts required to Sell stuffs in Market. If we can keep something like 500 then there won't be this kind of cheating.

As for Paypal, Dollar conversion is not much of an issue. We'll be having some sort of window for disputes unlike our Netbanking systems. The Seller can charge something extra for the conversion loss.

 

[madnav]

all middleman system, TE's account etc will only increase legal liabilities for concerned people.

moreover it would rather be a charity work and thus there would not be any implication to act on time. Delay will always be there which would directly result into people dealing directly.

all the agents will have to have current accounts in bank, minimum balance limit, fees etc which makes it a nono for most of us who are not always free for handling that.

only if people can be more cautious about dealing while trying to avoid the initial euphoria before purchase then there would be less scams..

for example, over various occasions, people have asked for bank details for market listing right away. a little discussion with the seller about the product can let the buyer know intentions etc of the buyer.

once you ask the bank details right away, you are making it easier for the crook to manipulate you.

and as long as possible, try to deal via friends who are available in those area.

requesting for help from already reputed members in that city may not work out each and every time (as people can be busy) but you can still try and see if that can be of help. (or in that case, a cheater will try to avoid dealing that way)

 

[Mephistopheles]

all middleman system, TE's account etc will only increase legal liabilities for concerned people.
moreover it would rather be a charity work and thus there would not be any implication to act on time. Delay will always be there which would directly result into people dealing directly.
all the agents will have to have current accounts in bank, minimum balance limit, fees etc which makes it a nono for most of us who are not always free for handling that.

only if people can be more cautious about dealing while trying to avoid the initial euphoria before purchase then there would be less scams..

for example, over various occasions, people have asked for bank details for market listing right away. a little discussion with the seller about the product can let the buyer know intentions etc of the buyer.
once you ask the bank details right away, you are making it easier for the crook to manipulate you.

and as long as possible, try to deal via friends who are available in those area.
requesting for help from already reputed members in that city may not work out each and every time (as people can be busy) but you can still try and see if that can be of help. (or in that case, a cheater will try to avoid dealing that way)

I think these points should be taken into consideration rather than making things more complicated :

There should be a disclaimer to newer members with points and suggestions on how to not get conned.
The minimum post count should be increased from 5 to say 200 to sell something here.
One must have atleast 5 rep points to sell something here.

 

[agupta02]

Actually, the more i think about it, i think TE should be less involved in Market Deals or any money oriented deals.TE has given a platform to exchange/buy goods which is good enough. And beyond ip banning and banning the member, Rest everything should be left on users conscience and caution. If as a community the members want to help by themselves, then they can, rather than getting TE involved. Not many ppl like responsibility, Not many ppl have time for this. So it all boils down to the members on how and how much they can help if they want to help. Beyond this, the user/seller should realize, if they want 100% proper deal, then go to the local stores and buy the goods. If you are buying from online forums, then be prepared to go through something like this if necessary.

I for one completely agree with this approach. People have to understand that its an online forum and when dealing with an online forum, there are inherent risks. The reward for taking that risk is that you sometimes find very good deals on stuff at prices which would be near impossible to find elsewhere. As they say You can't have your cake and eat it too. The mods are doing a phenomenal job of keeping things running smoothly for us, the least we could do is be a little more careful when shopping in the marketplace.

only if people can be more cautious about dealing while trying to avoid the initial euphoria before purchase then there would be less scams..



for example, over various occasions, people have asked for bank details for market listing right away. a little discussion with the seller about the product can let the buyer know intentions etc of the buyer. once you ask the bank details right away, you are making it easier for the crook to manipulate you.

Exactly. We are very quick to blame the greed of the seller when a deal goes bad but what about our own greed? I have seen countless cases in the market place where potential buyers literally swamp the seller with offers to pay immediately for a popular item such as a console or a game without even asking a question, trying to undercut the competition and corner that coveted piece of tech candy like a druggie looking for a quick fix.

The latest case with ironman aka redcross is a perfect example. Ironman aka Redcross played Lethal against Kniwor and ended up getting money from him as well as kniwor. Kniwor was the original buyer but Lethal tried to shove him out of the deal by paying first. Why? Had he dropped kniwor a PM before handing over the money to ironman, maybe he would not have been in this predicament now and maybe even Kniwor could have been spared the anguish if he would have come to know in advance that ironman was trying to double deal.

You can't clap with one hand. A rogues seller needs a gullible/greedy/careless buyer to con. Greed, and that too more on the buyer's end rather than the seller end, is the reason for all cons IMO. The rush of getting something at an awesome price is quite difficult to resist I presume.

 

[TheITWares]

@ Safin - Current account is not a problem.

If you want i can open one but yes maintaining Minimum Balance there, Replying to Mails etc will take my time and money but sellers here can pay me 1% of the deals done and i can keep the buyers money safe till the deal goes through.

If anyone doesn't wants to do the escrow then they can go ahead and do the deal between them if they feel safe dealing with each other.

I will be taking money 1% so will be liable to answer to queries mails etc. and give time towards it.

But all in all what this will do is there won't be anymore Cons here or anywhere else online this is the only way so solve this in a major way.

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@agupta02 - Regarding the inherent Risks that you are talking about while dealing online - We all know the risks already plus we know sometimes we get phenomenal deals etc etc that's not what this is about, This is about securing the Buyers Money and shoo away the ConMans who target communities like us.

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@ People talking about increasing the post count / iTrader Rating etc - We are talking about a Full proof mechanism the things that some people here are saying like Min 500 Post count etc these all will just make Spamming increment on this site and nothing else all these things have loopholes in it.

The only way a Buyer will feel secure when he will have money in escrow and nothing else.

 

[Ritvik]

Rahul its really nice of you to help out, kudos to you. What happens in a situation where you encounter a rotten buyer? Say I sell a phone or a watch and the buyer receives it in working order, drops it on the first day and has a non functioning display, cracked glass, a hand fallen off etc etc..... in such a case it would be hard for you or a mod to decide what to do if he claims that it was shipped to him in a non-working state. While pictures can to a certain extent determine what shape the goods were in prior to shipment they really can't be clear enough or sufficient to settle all such cases.

Now, something like this shouldn't be a reason to give up on what sounds like a potentially good system. It will however put you in a tough spot from time to time. Questions will arise on how refunds and disputes are settled leading to people passing judgement on you and this could effect how they see you as a seller as well as have a negative impact on your sales. I know its all very hypothetical but it just something to look at so your reputation doesn't get tarnished.

I hope you don't think I'm discouraging you, just trying to point out something that might have been an oversight.

 

[agupta02]

@ Safin - Current account is not a problem.

If you want i can open one but yes maintaining Minimum Balance there, Replying to Mails etc will take my time and money but sellers here can pay me 1% of the deals done and i can keep the buyers money safe till the deal goes through.

If anyone doesn't wants to do the escrow then they can go ahead and do the deal between them if they feel safe dealing with each other.

I will be taking money 1% so will be liable to answer to queries mails etc. and give time towards it.

But all in all what this will do is there won't be anymore Cons here or anywhere else online this is the only way so solve this in a major way.

Thank you for volunteering to be an alternative payment channel for buyers and sellers on TE but I think its the buyers who should be asked to pay the 1% fee as they are the ones looking for additional security and not the seller (unless your idea is made mandatory in which case I would rather go on Ebay as more buyer base).

@agupta02 - Regarding the inherent Risks that you are talking about while dealing online - We all know the risks already plus we know sometimes we get phenomenal deals etc etc that's not what this is about, This is about securing the Buyers Money and shoo away the ConMans who target communities like us.

Well my point was to accept those risks when dealing with a community like TE and not make an issue about the inefficiencies of the Marketplace and start a witch hunt every time a deal gets sour. Our energies would be better spent in trying to resolve the issue at hand as a COMMUNITY. It also means that there is no sure shot way of securing the buyer in a community unless you are prepared to digress from being a community and move towards becoming an online shopping portal.

The only way a Buyer will feel secure when he will have money in escrow and nothing else.

No the only way for the buyer to feel secure is to either buy from the same city and inspect the goods personally or if he has a good friend in the sellers' city, have him inspect the goods beforehand and take delivery from the seller or buy new from a local store. Even the escrow service could fail not to mention the legal and ethical ramifications. How are you gonna protect the seller from buyer's remorse? What if the buyer himself damages the product and then claims the seller sent him a damaged product? I think you need to think this through. Being a Dealer, your thinking process should ideally be working on these situations naturally as you are a seller yourself.

 

[TheITWares]

@ Ritvik & agupta02 - Thanks a lot for your inputs

The 1% charge is something that will be deducted when the Buyer Pays me so the seller can include that amount in his sale if he wants to it's just like EBAY instead of 6% i am charging 1% tatz the only diffrent

See you need to understand here Buyer's 99.9% are not Rotten, if that would have been the case people like me, other online Dealers in India, Newegg, Amazon all would have been out of business. The Buyer can check the stuff when the courier arrives at his doorstep and then sign the courier copy. if its in a Bad state he can reject it but as i said earlier the times something like this will ever happen will be very less. It will be 1 in 1000 Buyers Case and that case too will not be solved my me, we will have a discussion on TE for the same have a Vote May be a Community Court like EBAY has we can have that too TE Community Court whoever wins the money goes to him.

See this will also help the Buyers in a way such that a Seller will then me much more conscious while Sending stuff he'l Pack it well as he knows that he hasn't got the money yet so he will do everything right.

 

[Sandy]

IF a new member is listing something on TE then the buyer could ask some older member in the same city to go have a look at the product and make sure its in working order before its shipped?

This is not much but this will help a bit.

 

[Gannu]

^The deals would take time IMO but it should help nevertheless - or at least for the newer members and with considerably less dealings by far. But we can never rule out a possibility wherein the 2 members jointly wishes to co-operate in a fraud.

But, this is one heck of a fraud - one of a kind!

 

[logistopath]

Rahul, I am also concerned about the legal implications of TE opening an escrow account. Once an escrow account is opened, TE should play a role in dispute redressal and decide what is right or wrong. Along with that come the legal responsibilities, 'coz one of the concerned parties can pull TE to the courts on some issue. I am not sure if a disclaimer would work in this case.

My suggestions:
1. Buyer and seller interact more before and during and after the deal. Do not make hasty decisions.
2. Deal personally as far as possible. Or have someone pick up an item and check for you before buying something.
3. Buyer and seller can mutually decide upon an escrow system (not as a compulsory step though..). In that case, volunteers can act as escrow agents, but with absolutely no role to play other than transferring funds. If at all one party is not satisfied by the deal in this method, a dispute will be opened in market feedback thread with a limit of 5 to 7 days, within which period either party should mutually come to a decision. Else the deal would be called off... or something along those lines.. (Needs more fine tuning regarding the details..)

 

[kippu]

i think it was better when the minimum number of posts was at some high number , yes it led to spamming but atleast you can cut down the people who came in just to trade , better yet , keep the posts to a number of 100 and the number of moderated newbie posts also to around 25 to cut down spam , will cut most of them who want to jump in and start selling
all this escrow fund and stuff is over complicating the simple purpose of this forum ,to discuss computer and gadgetery

 

[TheITWares]

Why won't a disclaimer work we can put a Disclaimer saying that TE Community Court decision will be final.

And where is TE opening any accounts here its providing a Platform for Buying and Selling stuff and resoving Disputes tatz it.

I can also get a Service Tax No. for providing a Service for this. Everything is legal

Rahul, I am also concerned about the legal implications of TE opening an escrow account. Once an escrow account is opened, TE should play a role in dispute redressal and decide what is right or wrong. Along with that come the legal responsibilities, 'coz one of the concerned parties can pull TE to the courts on some issue. I am not sure if a disclaimer would work in this case.

My suggestions:

1. Buyer and seller interact more before and during and after the deal. Do not make hasty decisions.

2. Deal personally as far as possible. Or have someone pick up an item and check for you before buying something.

3. Buyer and seller can mutually decide upon an escrow system (not as a compulsory step though..). In that case, volunteers can act as escrow agents, but with absolutely no role to play other than transferring funds. If at all one party is not satisfied by the deal in this method, a dispute will be opened in market feedback thread with a limit of 5 to 7 days, within which period either party should mutually come to a decision. Else the deal would be called off... or something along those lines.. (Needs more fine tuning regarding the details..)