PC Peripherals Fried PSU, second one in 15 days

blufox

blufox

Adept
So as title suggests, today morning my just RMA'ed HX650 emitted smoke(ala Jeriko blast smoke).
The smoke bomb was triggered when my computer was switched off, alike in last case of HX620.
My last HX620 fried in similar fashion.

Funny? Yes and No.

another PSU fried within 2 weeks is a dangerous sign which I cannot ignore.

So I started looking at what can be wrong here.

Here is how my computer is powered right now.

A 4 m long extension cord is connected to a power outlet. A surge protector from some joker company called CONA is connected to this extension.
My LCD power , PSU power and modem power is connected to this surge protector.

One thing I notice is that, a day before my HX620 died, my Altec Lansing VS4210 stopped turning on.
Then my HX620 fried while computer was powered off. Then a new HX650 fried when power was turned off.

Did anyone ever face this issue?
What could be wrong here?

Another RMA on cards, that too in 15 days is appalling .

Thanks,
 
The 4 m cable from the socket shouldn't be the culprit. I have a similar setup in place and have a 3 m long cable from a 15 A socket. The power supply can handle slight fluctuations in the line. Going low isnt a problem since power supplies are designed with a universal voltage input and can acccept 110-230 V, but if it keeps exceeding the higher threshold value frequently, it may give up! Overloading a power supply and drawing too much power can also blow the PSU but that isn't the case here either.

I am assuming you do not have a UPS in place. Get a good surge protector from MX or Belkin.

Do you have proper earthing in place? I recall an instance when insufficient earthing damaged the logic board of a friend's MBP and the main board of another friends HP laptop!
 
.....my HX620 fried while computer was powered off. Then a new HX650 fried when power was turned off
Click to expand...

PSUs died when the PC was already shutdown? or

when the shutdown process had just completed? or

when you switched off the power from main switch where the extension cord is connected? or

when you switched off the power from the switch on the surge protector if there is any?

I am not sure about the problem, just trying to isolate the exact condition.

@ALPHA17

no UPS is mentioned. I am assuming he doesn't have one.
 
ALPHA17 said:
^^ Then the first thing OP needs is a decent UPS, he is killing his system.
Click to expand...

This might be true,but another thing to consider is "EARTHING".Whats the power supply power cord looks like?Does it have earthing pin,or just two pins?

And did you test the wall socket earthing?
 
^ i guess its a 3-pin socket with a EARTH pin. @OP, check your earthing and get a better UPS, also use a different power cord, just to be on the safe side.
 
To clear things up -

1. I do not have UPS, never had. UPS is to give you sufficient time to save and shutdown. I do not need any of this, so I rely on my PSU.

2. Corsair PSUs have 3 pin input, so earthing is fine for it.

3. Switched off means, it was not powered on. It was shutdown for last 12 hours or so.

4. I think this gharelu desi surge protector is the culprit.

5. How does not having a UPS kills my system? Assuming I have a very good surge protector? Please explain? All PC components are designed to withstand abrupt power disconnections. Would like to know more on this.

6. Earthing? I wonder why didn't anything else fry in my home, fridge, TV, laptops all work fine. Only 2 PSUs and one Altec Lansing VS4216 are dead.

7. How can earthing fry a PSU when it is not in use?

Let me know if you have any other doubts.

And thanks all for answers.
 
Most probable cause was a gradual voltage increase leading to high over-voltage. It should've gone over 300V. So please check your mains. Also check the wall sockets, sometimes the polarities are reversed :S !!!.

1. You need to add a Pure-SineUPS rated ~ 1000VA, for voltage regulation or a good Pure-Sine Stabilizer with a load capacity ~ 750W. Pure Sine is required since your SMPS is active PFC.

2. Use the original cable supplied with the Corsair Power Supply, you wont need any Surge Protector(break fuse) in that case.

3. Make sure that your connections are tight and secure, use wire ties and nails to make sure that your power cables dont move freely around the connection points.

4. If you're pulling around 450W from the mains consistently, please get a decent spike-guard/surge-protector{Belkin,MX} that doesn't heat up. They can protect from ONLY SUDDEN SURGE, but cannot guard against the gradual voltage increases that usually occur during the night or if your living near(same grid) Industrial area. For such purpose you need a good Pure-Sine UPS.
 
Ameet148 said:
OP you think UPS is just a backup device :facepalm:
Click to expand...

Well yes, don't skip the ques with a facepalm :lol:.

What do you think UPS actually does with your system, which a surge protector armed with a good PSU cannot do?
 
^^ A good UPS first and foremost cleanses the power you get, removes jarring spikes and troughs in the voltage, next it makes sure the voltage is at the right level, on low voltage if your PC is rigged to a UPS, it'll not start up.

Next if the earthing is poor the UPS makes sure that the most damaging event that your PC suffers is an abrupt restart, if you're not having a UPS a spike can always get transmitted to your SMPS [frying it mind you] then to your electrical components [damaging them to various states]. That is why local SMPS manage to screw around with the integrity of DATA on a hard drive in certain cases [bad current -- electromagnetic fields -- not a good place to keep your hard disc in a metal enclosure].

For more on UPS's -- Uninterruptible power supply - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

This is not a laughing matter bruv, go buy a UPS. It is like saying the kettle heats up when water boils in it but I'll have my tongue stuck to its surface till I get burnt to realize it gets hot.
 
I've answered almost all of your questions. In my previous post. Still since you require some more explanation :

Earthing is usually fine in a PSU, the problem usually lies with your mains. Since you've mentioned you lost a VS4216 which comes without an earthing point, it means that you're getting really low voltages or really high voltages. Hence you need an Automatic-Voltage-Regulator.

If you lost your PSU when the switch was in OFF it means that there's something very-very wrong with your house mains(polarities may be reversed). Please get it checked. Get your house mains checked by an electrician. Measure the voltage reading round the clock. Anything above 250V or below 220V suggest that you need to register a complaint with your electricity board.

Surges ka jamana gaya bhidu. Nowadays these SUDDEN surges only occur during lightning strikes!!! (at least in Mumbai). The protection you need is most probably over-voltage protection that can only be supplied with an AVR(pure sine for active PFC PSU).

"surge Protector is a culprit"!!! Look for burn marks inside and outside the surge protector that may show sign of sparking. Also see if the spike guard's hot when under operation. If not then it's not the culprit.

blufox said:
To clear things up -

1. I do not have UPS, never had. UPS is to give you sufficient time to save and shutdown. I do not need any of this, so I rely on my PSU.

2. Corsair PSUs have 3 pin input, so earthing is fine for it.

3. Switched off means, it was not powered on. It was shutdown for last 12 hours or so.

4. I think this gharelu desi surge protector is the culprit.

5. How does not having a UPS kills my system? Assuming I have a very good surge protector? Please explain? All PC components are designed to withstand abrupt power disconnections. Would like to know more on this.

6. Earthing? I wonder why didn't anything else fry in my home, fridge, TV, laptops all work fine. Only 2 PSUs and one Altec Lansing VS4216 are dead.

7. How can earthing fry a PSU when it is not in use?

Let me know if you have any other doubts.

And thanks all for answers.
Click to expand...
 
Some of you are confusing UPS with Voltage-stabilizer.

A UPS is just a backup device but these days they do come with little voltage stabilizers.

Saying "get a UPS cause you are having irregular voltage" is just like saying "get an IGP if you want to play games (instead of a dedicated GPU)". IMO a dedicated voltage stabilizer is anyday better than a UPS. My experience with UPS has been rather bad, and with voltage-stabilizers rather awesome. In past, my 2-3 UPS were culprit for burning 3 motherboards, but the issue rectified when I replaced it with a stabilizer. Haven't ever used a UPS again. Nor do I need them.

Similarly OP doesn't want a backup device and is using a surge protector to safeguard the PSU(which also comes with a rather tiny inbuilt voltage stabilzer) from voltage spikes. It is supposed to kill voltages crossing 260V and hence it is known as the "surge"-protector. But clearly here, the cheap CONA product is rather leading to surges instead of preventing them! IMO, it is the only culprit in OP's case.

Recommended solution:

Step 1. Get a new surge protector (from Belkin or similar brand)

Step 2. Move your system to a 13A or 16A wall socket instead of a 6A type. (When a "power"-hungry product isn't supplied with sufficient amps, it tries to satisfy it's hunger with extra volts) This fact could be silently harming your PSU when you are using the PC.

If required, Step 3. Get a good copper-based voltage stabilizer rated at 1KVA.

Passing thought: OCed GTX280, OCed AMD, OCed Ram, can be slightly calmed down to reduce the load on the modular (not as good as non-modular) PSU.
 
Avoid a surge protector, it would not really help, what you are facing is over voltage - 285 V+, you need a simple stabilizer available commonly for approx 1k. best you get your voltage levels checked, as if it keeps going high, you will face issues with your other electrical appliances also very soon - tv/ fridge etc.
 
Thanks to all.

I learnt a lesson today.

@sato, Voltage stablizers? Okay, where do I get them? which brand? Also, I do not run all this. I run onboard GFX and unlocked AMD 550BE with loose timings on RAM, with no OC. All this because ASUS refused to provide me warranty for one year old GTX280 haha.

@aman, appreciate the answers. Much thanks.

@axeman, how do I get voltage levels checked?

Shall get a basic APC UPS.Hope it will be fine?
 
I have never used an UPS in my entire computerized life, 8 years+, none of my components went bad for this issue. Yah, one day, my pc got lighning struck and my mobo and psu went bad, nothing else had happened still now, bad earthing used to have current flowing thoruhg my cabinet, my electrician fixed the issue permanently.

But what you guyz are saying, I think I need an ups fast. Do you think it is really necessary because my inverter provides me with the extra back up.

:)

BTW, I do have a special 16A line designed for the pc only, nowadays, I use a switch board with chinese plug converter to power up the pc.
In OPs case, I really think there is something quite wrong in the main power connection. OP, do get your main line chekced by a good electrician otherwise your another electronic devices can be next in line.
 
The 'smoke bomb' occurred when the PC was switched off which means the PSU was not drawing any power.

Even if the mains switch was 'On', the fluctuations should not have affected the PSU in such a way. I would have blamed the bad power if this had happened while the system was ON but something doesn't seem right here.

If a voltage stabilizer solves the OP's problem then just switching off power from the mains would also work as the PSU was handling spikes well when the system was on.
 
blufox said:
Thanks to all.

I learnt a lesson today.

@sato, Voltage stablizers? Okay, where do I get them? which brand? Also, I do not run all this. I run onboard GFX and unlocked AMD 550BE with loose timings on RAM, with no OC. All this because ASUS refused to provide me warranty for one year old GTX280 haha.

@aman, appreciate the answers. Much thanks.

@axeman, how do I get voltage levels checked?

Shall get a basic APC UPS.Hope it will be fine?
Click to expand...

Go to any nearby electrical store. Ask for a V-Guard voltage stabilizer or equivalent brand. Btw, you must be using voltage stabilizers with your TV and AC I suppose.

http://bangalore.justdial.com/voltage-stabilizer-v-guard_Bangalore.html

Regarding the basic APC UPS, don't even try that. Cause this refers to the 500VA non-sine UPS, and fails all the required fields as follows:

1. 500VA UPS is insufficient to handle a loaded HX650. One needs 850VA-1KVA UPS for this PSU.

2. Basic UPS are not sine-wave. This causes the notorious humming issue in the Corsair PSUs as the power supplied to PSU isn't clean.

3. No point spending extra for a UPS when a good copper-based-voltage-stabilizer costs much less. (Provided you don't need the backup feature)
 
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