HDTV Buying Advice Sought

[kidrow]

Hi all,

So my 25 inch BPL CRT is acting up lately & while I'm sure it can be fixed, folks are divided over whether it's time for a new TV. Frankly, I'm pretty happy with CRTs for SD viewing but if you want to buy a new TV, there's not much choice besides the HDTVs.

I'm not sure about what screen size I'm looking for yet. From what I've read, at 8 feet or so, the minimum recommended is ~50in. Now of course that's the THX standard. Not sure how it applies to viewing TV content. In either case, my budget will allow a maximum of 40in.

Also not concerned about 1080p. Seemingly it's a waste at that distance & screen size even with perfect vision. & if it's 720p, I can hook up my PC to play games, lol. But is it necessary for future-proofing?

So the bottom line is that I'm looking for the cheapest VFM TV for regular SD TV content. I'm not a videophile & no one else in my family is. I'm not too sure if any of us can make out whether the blacks are deep enough. (Is it obvious enough for a regular joe to notice or are the gurus just splitting hairs?)

However, I'm also not too sure about how many channels are available in HD, packages, requirements, cost etc. So I don't know if it makes sense to switch to HD content, rather than look for a TV which can do a decent job of upscaling, given my limited budget.

With regard to the screen size, I presume the 32in will be about the same as my 25in CRT when adjusted for the different aspect ratios. So if I want something bigger, it has to be around 40in?
I also have a feeling that the 32in panels nowadays are smaller than ones found few years back. I'm basing this on the fact that my friend's 32in Sony seems much bigger than what can be seen in stores today.

Most usage will be at night with a regular tube light on for about 3-4 hours. Only Sundays will see usage of about 7-8 hours.

On to the template-

1. Budget. - If it's a 32incher, anywhere from 16k to 25k; If a 42incher, between 30k to 40k

2. Viewing distance. - About 8 feet

3. Sources/inputs such as HD DTH/consoles/stand-alone media players etc. - SD Videocon dth

4. Preference for plasma TV/LCD TV/LED-LCD TV. - None. Cheapest preferable but with power savings, if any, factored in. Also whatever is best suited for usual SD viewing (serials, news etc.) in room lit by a tube light.

5. Preference for brands. - None. Though one which has longer warranty periods would get preference. Having said that, open to AOC, Vu & such if considerably cheaper.

6. Willing to purchase it from the grey market? - No. In fact, will be purchasing on EMI. So even online stores are out. Plus I'm apprehensive of reliability/durability.

7. Ambient lighting conditions of the room. - Fairly dark. Most of the viewing is at night though with a regular tube light always on.

8. Any other feature you are looking for such as 3D support on the HDTV, DLNA capabilities etc. - No.

Thanks for your time & patience. Can totally understand if people say, "Dude, just stick with the CRT". Frankly, I feel that way since I'm on a tight budget. Nonetheless, would appreciate some guidance & suggestions.

Cheers. Have a nice day!

Edit: Quick online perusal throws up the following 39-42 inchers -
1. LG 42PN4500 at ~35k
2. Philips 40PFL4758 at ~35k
3. Panasonic 39B6D at ~40k

Source - http://www.snapdeal.com/products/el...2 inches&FID=button_Size : 39-42 inches#phtl|

So any ideas?

 

[kidrow]

Anyone?!

 

[kidrow]

Bump!

 

[gcbeldar]

Waiting for Xmas Offer Panasonic 39B6D Extended 2 years warranty.

 

[Superbad]

do you intend to upgrade your DTH to HD anytime sooner?

do you intend to watch movies or HD content via the pendrive/HDD or you prefer to watch using HDMI/dedicated media player?

have you done a demo of your shortlisted TV in the showrooms?

if no i recommend you to do a initial analysis of the points raised and depending on your answers tag in the user "adder" for more specific help.

 

[kidrow]

Waiting for Xmas Offer Panasonic 39B6D Extended 2 years warranty.

Didn't quite get you mate. Have you decided on the Pana or ar you recommending it to me?

do you intend to upgrade your DTH to HD anytime sooner?

do you intend to watch movies or HD content via the pendrive/HDD or you prefer to watch using HDMI/dedicated media player?

have you done a demo of your shortlisted TV in the showrooms?

if no i recommend you to do a initial analysis of the points raised and depending on your answers tag in the user "adder" for more specific help.

1. Probably not. From what I see, regional Marathi, Bengali channels aren't offered in HD. & that's gonna be the staple diet for the most part.
2. Would be great if it can be handled via USB. If not, I'm prepared to buy a separate media player later. But frankly not a concern while making the purchase. Movies will generally be an occasional affair.
3. Will hopefully do a recce this weekend. I haven't shortlisted any models, just mentioned the ones that seem to fall in my budget. Will surely get back after I do that.

Thanks for your reply.

 

[kidrow]

Just to update, I had a look at a few yesterday. Here are my impressions -

1. 32 inchers just seem too small. I'm not sure if they are even as big as my 25 in. CRT. I almost felt like I'm watching my computer monitor. Is that fairly accurate after making the adjustment for screen size vs distance? Am I exaggerating? Maybe. But it definitely doesn't feel like an upgrade.

2. 39-42 inchers might be too big for regular TV. Not so much as to go OMG though. So I think we'll adjust after a bit once we get used to it.
I think ~36 in. would have been ideal.

3. Switching to regular SD content (Zee Marathi) makes images look not so sharp (kinda "blurry"), but it's not smooth overall. I mean it's not the same as blurring an image in photoshop where you'll say that an image is not as sharp as any other but it's still pleasant. This is different in the sense that there are some sort of artifacts but I'm not able to pinpoint the exact cause. Either way, it was disturbing for me.

SD viewing reminds me of youtube. If you watch 360p in the windowed player, it's fine. But that switch to 144p immediately is noticeable.

Now on the 32 inchers, SD is tolerable but ~40 in. & it becomes worse. There were some differences between sets but whether they were due to actual differences in the chips or the tv settings, I'm not sure. (& I only compared models within the same lower end price range)

So when it comes to SD broadcasts,
a) is it always going to be a downgrade? Or is something like the Panasonic E6d which is generally reviewed to have good sd performance going to be as good as CRT (for the average joe, not the videophile)?
b) are showroom tv settings or the signal getting divided amongst many sets to blame?
c) Is any technology inherently better for SD viewing? So is a Plasma closer to CRT than say LED?
d) How does no. of pixels relate? So say a 720p TV vs 1080p being better an processing OR displaying an SD signal?
e) Is it possible to have a windowed mode (as opposed to pillar box) on every TV so there is a 1:1 relation?

4. Between Plasma & LED, the latter were burning like a torch while the former were more soothing (in fact, comparatively dim). Now while I tried to get the attendants to change the modes on the TV, they were reluctant though & I couldn't get any of them to do it. So I wasn't able to see what the sets look like when toned down (for LED) or up (for Plasma).

Overall, I couldn't really see any major differences between any of the brands/models within the budget & within the technology. It all seemed to be differences in settings & nothing else.
One thing I did notice though was that the sharpness seemed to vary wildly. Taken 2 was on in HD. I was comparing Panasonic 39b60d LED & LG Plasma 4500. I could have sworn it was not HD. But looking at the Sony & Samsung, I could make out Liam Neeson's stubble. I'm putting this down to the settings because even on the 2 budget computers I own the images are as sharp. Also I don't think it's the resolution difference since the Pana is a 1080 unit.

I can see why people say Plasma is reflective. Comparatively, it is. However, I'd say it's as reflective as CRT & therefore a non-issue for me since I'm used to it.

5. I could also make out a weird kind of a stutter during fight scenes. Is this the limitation people speak of with regard to LEDs? How do I not notice any such thing on computer monitors - Larger vs smaller screen size?

Current mindset - So what am I thinking at the moment? I don't think I could watch SD broadcast on any of these but it's my folks who have to take a call since the majority of tv viewing is done by them. As for HD movies, I didn't see any major differences. But Plasma is easier on the eyes. Now whether it has to do with settings or otherwise I know not. The only LEDs which I thought were pleasing was a 40 inch Toshiba (can't recollect the model ) for 40k, & an AOC 40 inch for 31k (again no model no.) Probably it's best to buy the cheapest with the most warranty & call it a day?

Will update the thread after further developments of course. Until then any help/thoughts is much appreciated.
@adder : If you have the time, please help with your thoughts.

 

[rdst_1]

SD will never be as good as on a CRT. though after some time you will get used to it. Also even though 40 inches might seem too big, but again you will get used to it within a week. We got used to the 51" I bought and now even 40 inches seems small.
The problem you saw with the fight scene is not visible on your computer monitor because you are playing a video file on your computer whereas it is a signal being played on your TV. The difference is in the FPS. The TV signal is at 50FPS generally whereas the video file is at 23.96FPS.

 

[Superbad]

SD will always look bad from what it was available on CRT. takes some time getting used to.
40 inches should be ok. if by anychance , you felt the need to watch HD content , then 40 inches makes you feel better in watching.32 or 36 inches might feel , you are watching it on a PC monitor.

if for purely SD content , the 720p tv might provide better quality.(lesser pexellation since the SD content is not magnified to 1080p compared to 720p for 576p.
also look for some toshiba LED tvs. had seen one in a hotel recently and the SD content looked better on it. might have been an 720p tv but you never know

 

[adder]

An LCD/LED can just be just as dim as plasma with the right setting.I am sure 100% of the showrooms keep the backlight up to max or they are in showroom/demo mode.
You cannot go wrong with any of samsung series 5 LEDs or any of the Sony.W series.

 

[kidrow]

SD will never be as good as on a CRT.

What's the reason for this? The mismatch between the signal & the screen res. or something inherent to the technology?

The problem you saw with the fight scene is not visible on your computer monitor because you are playing a video file on your computer whereas it is a signal being played on your TV. The difference is in the FPS. The TV signal is at 50FPS generally whereas the video file is at 23.96FPS.

OK, so I guess we just need to give in to the fact that it is a given. Any workarounds?

SD will always look bad from what it was available on CRT. takes some time getting used to.
40 inches should be ok. if by anychance , you felt the need to watch HD content , then 40 inches makes you feel better in watching.32 or 36 inches might feel , you are watching it on a PC monitor.

Agree with both you & rdst that 40+ is the screen size to aim for.

if for purely SD content , the 720p tv might provide better quality.(lesser pexellation since the SD content is not magnified to 1080p compared to 720p for 576p.

But pixellation should not matter at the distance of ~8 feet for a 40 inch TV, right? I think more than the pixellation I think what would help would be how clean the TV can make an image look with a given input signal. I'm having a difficult timing explaining the "artifacts". It's not like the blocks you see from poor compression of a bad DVD rip. It is closer to what people describe as haloing around the edges when oversharpened combined with a soft picture due to the signal & tv resolution mismatch.

also look for some toshiba LED tvs. had seen one in a hotel recently and the SD content looked better on it. might have been an 720p tv but you never know

Yes, I did feel like one particular Toshiba 40 in. LED looked acceptable with SD content. Maybe it's the PU200 which seems to be quite popular judging by Flipkart reviews, IDK. The plus with Toshiba is the 3 year warranty. So at least I got my rear covered for 3 years,

You cannot go wrong with any of samsung series 5 LEDs or any of the Sony.W series.

Is that with regard to the quality of SD processing? Or in terms of other aspects? I just checked online & both of those are way beyond the budget. I just came across a Samsung UA39EH5003R at Croma for 43k . Is that a Series 5? Is it any good? Of course I'll have to confirm availability. One can't rely on the online status alone. Any idea how the Samsung Plasma 43f4900 at 44k is? How does it compare to the LED I linked or the LG 42PN4500?
Can totally understand if you have no clue as all these are budget entry-level models.

Again, thanks for all the help guys. Much appreciated.

 

[Kilroyquasar]

your budget is restrictive, otherwise panasonic 32e6d would've been an apt tv for you!
the 39b6d is good as well.

P.S. - saw your thread on one other forum too. the 43F4900 seems to be the better one suitable for your requirements as of now.

 

[adder]

Is that with regard to the quality of SD processing? Or in terms of other aspects? I just checked online & both of those are way beyond the budget. I just came across a Samsung UA39EH5003R at Croma for 43k . Is that a Series 5? Is it any good? Of course I'll have to confirm availability. One can't rely on the online status alone. Any idea how the Samsung Plasma 43f4900 at 44k is? How does it compare to the LED I linked or the LG 42PN4500?
Can totally understand if you have no clue as all these are budget entry-level models.
.

The overall image processing in these two brands are better.The 39" model won't come with a SPVA panel but it may come with a AMVA or SMVA panel.Despite that they will still have a contrast edge over LG.
As far as the plasma well the low end models really don't stand a chance ,since they have really poor perceived contrast and poor brightness and they washout when light hits the screen.
I know you said you where fine with your CRT with regard to reflection/glare but going by that logic why would you then want the best tv in that budget.

 

[kidrow]

First off, thanks to everyone for their time & patience.

P.S. - saw your thread on one other forum too. the 43F4900 seems to be the better one suitable for your requirements as of now.

Yeah the current thread wasn't getting much love earlier & I need all the help I can get! Major con with Plasma for me is future support since the technology has been phased out except for LG & Samsung IINM. Samsung doesn't even offer extended warranty on Plasmas judging by their site.

The overall image processing in these two brands are better.The 39" model won't come with a SPVA panel but it may come with a AMVA or SMVA panel.Despite that they will still have a contrast edge over LG.

You lost me there, . But that's ok. I haven't reached that stage where I should begin researching panel technologies. I haven't yet crossed the SD hurdle which is the priority for me.

As far as the plasma well the low end models really don't stand a chance ,since they have really poor perceived contrast and poor brightness and they washout when light hits the screen.

So low end Plasma vs low end LED = LED win?

I know you said you where fine with your CRT with regard to reflection/glare but going by that logic why would you then want the best tv in that budget.

What I meant was that given the lighting conditions in my room at night (viz. a regular ole tube light) & changing the location to where the new TV will be placed, the current CRT doesn't have any visible reflections. When I checked the Plasma in the showroom & saw what people meant by the Plasma having glare, I came to the conclusion that the level of reflectivity is the same as CRT, not more. Hence I concluded that the reflection/glare is not an issue for my situation. Does this logic actually hold true, IDK. But atm I'm still open to a plasma.

So after Round 1, my current shortlist is - (not in any particular order)
1. Samsung 39eh5003 (if available)/ 43f4900 Plasma
2. LG 42PN4500 Plasma
3. Panasonic 39b6d/39b60d
4. Toshiba ~40 in. LED
5. AOC ~40 in. LED
So on my next trip I'm taking my mom along to see whether Marathi serials look OK to her. If they do then depending on which sets she feels are better I'll start being a bit more critical (or try to anyway). I have a feeling this is gonna take quite a few trips!

Again, thanks to everyone for all the help. This HDTV business is really confusing. Cheers!

 

[kidrow]

If a Plasma set is used in pillar box mode every day for 3-4 hours, does it necessarily mean image retention will occur? Can it be prevented by running some patterns daily? Doesn't something like the orbiter mode tackle IR due to black bars? Thanks.

 

[kidrow]

Yep, took my mom to have a look at the TVs the other day. She can't seem to get over the mismatch between the input & output aspect ratios (i.e. stretching) for SD content. She is oblivious to the blur & loss of sharpness though. I asked the attendant to run the set in Pillarbox mode & while my mom was happy with the correction in aspect ratio, it does reduce the viewable screen real estate by quite a bit.

On this occasion, we went to another store & I found the images were cleaner in SD than what I'd seen in other stores. So either a) I've reduced my expecations knowing what to expect (thus in a sense getting used to it) or b) the input signal is better at this store than at previous ones. I took the Panasonic 39b6d as reference since that seems to be the one available across most stores.

Either way, I compared the Toshiba 39P2305 & the Panasonic 39b6d & found no difference in SD. I also had a look at a Samsung series 5 led. While it looked comparatively sharper for SD, I'm thinking it's down to the settings.

So atm, it's between -
1. LG 42 PN4500 : +ve: Cheap & 42"; -ve: Plasma related issues, 1 year warranty
2. Samsung 43F4900 : +ve: 43" & 3d & good service & good (probable) buyback; -ve: Plasma related issues, 1 year warranty, costlier
3. Panasonic 39b6d : +ve: Brand name; -ve: 1 year warranty, comparatively costly
4. Toshiba 39P2305 or 40PU200 or etc. : +ve: Cheap & 3 year warranty*; -ve : Brand name
Have skipped AOC because I read their warranty policy & it is not a comprehensive 3 year policy. So makes no sense.

Fresh questions:
1. So it is highly likely that my mom will be watching the TV in pillarbox 4:3 mode. So is Plasma out then? Based on what I've read, I'd say it's not a strict no-no. However I can't simply set it & forget it. I will need to take care.

2. & yet, of the sets I've come across within my budget, it is only the Plasmas which are 42/43 in. Since pillarbox reduces the actual viewable area, I figured I need to go with the biggest possible screen size. So should a 2-3 inch difference between the Plasmas & Leds (say between 39" & 42") be a factor? Or is that too small a difference to matter?

3. *As for Toshiba warranty, their site does not mention 3 years anywhere. All they have under their TV policy is this explanation of what constitutes dead pixels as per warranty.
a) So is this (viz. the no. of pixels thingy) standard for the industry?
b) In the store, the attendant mentioned Toshiba has a 1+2 year warranty. The 1st year is comprehensive while the next 2 cover only the panel. Is that good enough? A panel failure is what constitutes the greatest after-sales expense, right?
I'm harping on the warranty simply because that is a major differentiating factor for me.

4. In this video here of the Toshiba P2305, the panel seems to be quite reflective. So does it mean that even Leds can be as reflective & prone to glare as Plasma? Or am I missing something here? Is it the same as choosing between laptop screens where certain screens are glossy & others are matte? So in the end, it isn't a given that the Leds won't be reflective?

Again, thanks for your time & patience. Cheers & have a nice day!

 

[kidrow]

Another trip & have narrowed it down to the Toshiba 39p2305 & the LG 42pn4500, with the Tosh having the upper hand. I want to compare their warranty policies. If Toshiba indeed has a comprehensive 3 year policy, we have a winner!

PS: Is the Panasonic ev6d the same as e6d?[DOUBLEPOST=1386007243][/DOUBLEPOST]Update: Checked a couple of local "smaller" retailers. While I didn't find any new models to check, one store owner told me that even Toshiba doesn't have a 3 year warranty anymore. It was only until 15th of November apparently. So I don't know what to believe anymore. Really need to get a hold of the warranty policy in black & white before I pull the trigger.