Forum Feedback Hello Xello

[Renegade]

In continuation to this post here

You only need to be a forum longtimer to see that the current rate of decay is going to consume the forums as we know it. A longtimer would also know that change is an abomination. After all, we do not want to rock our houseboat of a forum.

The most logical next step then, is to side step and look at things with a fresh set of eyes.

Presenting Project Xello

Building a community experience from ground up. Which overcomes the challenges of traditional forum software. Eliminates the feature bloat which is definitely not relevant today. Builds on features which mirror our current consumption pattern. Allowing us to focus on what is more important to us as a community and as an individual user.

All this without changing anything on TechEnclave, it will continue to exist as it has before.

Now this won't be possible without community participation. So calling all fellow forum members to contribute in whichever way you can. Make feature suggestions. Take screenshots of what you liked elsewhere and post those here as inspirations. Brainstorm and dump in ideas. Vote on suggestions, ideas, inspirations by liking the posts by others. The popular concepts get picked up first. Be a part of alpha and beta testing when it happens to help iron out all issues and smooth out the rough edges.

Feel free to start as many new threads as needed in this Project Xello forum.

Also fill out this short form to register your interest in the project. The alpha and beta stages will be closed group and limited to 100 participants.
https://forms.gle/g36Wxq5Q1C8ASNg46

So where do we go from here. Well I am targeting the following roadmap for the project. Bear in mind its an extremely large undertaking and a continuous process of improvement.

• July - Decide feature set for first release (Minimum Viable Product). Create Visual Designs.
• August - Frontend Development (Android and iOS)
• September - Backend Development
• October - Closed group alpha testing and development
• November - Invite only beta testing and development
• December - Release and post release issue fixing
• January onwards - ongoing enhancements and web interface development

I know a web interface is very important for the desktop users and convenient for long posts and serious discussions. Once the project starts taking shape, building a web interface would not take as much time. I may be able to take it up earlier than planned.

With this I leave you with the initial set of visual design screens to give a context to this post.

. . .

So what do you think? Which features are the absolute must have that you cannot live without? Which features have you seen on other community platforms which you think would be a good addition to our new platform?

 

[puns]

Why the name 'Xello' which is a cool word.
Look forward and good luck

 

[rdst_1]

I am going to say this again, ever since I started using Tapatalk, I haven't looked back. So for me, a navigation interface like Tapatalk would definitely be a desirable feature. I think almost all forums have same navigation currently, but somehow, at least in TBHP, the New Posts, Unread sections showed different threads than the app. I don't think that problem exists with TE.
I think I won't have much inputs that might help as I belong to the group which doesn't want much to change and am pretty happy with the current setup.

 

[Renegade]

Why the name 'Xello' which is a cool word.
Look forward and good luck

Well I have this domain xello.in since 2014. It was supposed to be for a different purpose but that didn't pan out. It's short, it's catchy, it sounds like a twist on hello. And I feel it's a good name to give to this project. I am open to using any other domain or name for this project but if a better name doesn't come across before launch then xello.in it is.

Post automatically merged: Jul 4, 2020

I am going to say this again, ever since I started using Tapatalk, I haven't looked back. So for me, a navigation interface like Tapatalk would definitely be a desirable feature. I think almost all forums have same navigation currently, but somehow, at least in TBHP, the New Posts, Unread sections showed different threads than the app. I don't think that problem exists with TE.
I think I won't have much inputs that might help as I belong to the group which doesn't want much to change and am pretty happy with the current setup.

Thanks for your inputs. Yes your reply in the earlier thread was at the back of my head. I haven't used Tapatalk in a long time but would definitely go through it to get some ideas. And no, nothing will change on TE.

 

[puns]

I like the name

 

[Rezep]

I hope that those visual design screens that you sent is not the core idea you have in mind because it really just looks like reddit tbh. And that upvote/downvote button is not something which i believe represents every thread/post as it's own independent equal to any other one.There's a reason why i enjoy being on techenclave browsing my hours away rather than on reddit because quite frankly reddit is just a popularity contest. Actual meaningful conversation hardly occurs there with replies to comment diverging into a completely different topic or just users doing bs. Even if there is a serious topic once in a while, continuation doesn't exist. A person posts about "insert current affairs" on reddit, updoots to the left, gold medals thrown around, muricans talk about how bad it is etc etc 48 hours go by and that post is already dead, then another person posts another thing about "insert current affairs" rinse and repeat.The difference can be seen on forums though, with threads even going back more than 5 years and continuously getting bumped to this day. There are however drawbacks too with some threads being so long (political posts, current issues) that it's kinda hard to get into the conversation or even understand without some context.So xello is basically a completely different platform that you're experimenting with i see, in that case then what does xello provide differently that reddit or forums don't provide. Why would a person prefer xello over reddit or see it as an alternative to forum communities. I just want you to take the last few questions as thoughts you should keep when creating xello, and please do read this as feedback , i'm not at all criticizing you but hoping for the absolute best man, although i am no oldtimer i have enjoyed my time here and hope to do so for even more.

 

[Renegade]

I hope that those visual design screens that you sent is not the core idea you have in mind because it really just looks like reddit tbh. And that upvote/downvote button is not something which i believe represents every thread/post as it's own independent equal to any other one.There's a reason why i enjoy being on techenclave browsing my hours away rather than on reddit because quite frankly reddit is just a popularity contest. Actual meaningful conversation hardly occurs there with replies to comment diverging into a completely different topic or just users doing bs. Even if there is a serious topic once in a while, continuation doesn't exist. A person posts about "insert current affairs" on reddit, updoots to the left, gold medals thrown around, muricans talk about how bad it is etc etc 48 hours go by and that post is already dead, then another person posts another thing about "insert current affairs" rinse and repeat.The difference can be seen on forums though, with threads even going back more than 5 years and continuously getting bumped to this day. There are however drawbacks too with some threads being so long (political posts, current issues) that it's kinda hard to get into the conversation or even understand without some context.So xello is basically a completely different platform that you're experimenting with i see, in that case then what does xello provide differently that reddit or forums don't provide. Why would a person prefer xello over reddit or see it as an alternative to forum communities. I just want you to take the last few questions as thoughts you should keep when creating xello, and please do read this as feedback , i'm not at all criticizing you but hoping for the absolute best man, although i am no oldtimer i have enjoyed my time here and hope to do so for even more.

Your points are fair and most welcome. Even if it were criticism, it is feedback. I will keep your questions in mind.

Whether you have a voting system, reputation system, likes system, they all work the same way. They should also allow the users to discover popular posts, which get buried deep in a forum thread.

At the end of the day it will depend on what you allow to happen on your community. StackOverflow seems to be doing fairly well with a voting system. We and all xenforo forums are functioning well with the likes (reactions now) system. At the end of the day it is important that the moderators and admins steer the community with rules. TBHP has strict rules and reddit looks like the other end of the spectrum. When I am seeking feedback, I also want us to think about the rules and guidelines which should be implemented to ensure that the platform does not devolve into another reddit. So thanks for bringing this point up.

PS: You don't need to be an oldtimer to add value. What matters is what you are doing right now.

 

[6pack]

I like the frontpage system in Reddit where we get to see all the new/popular posts of the subs we are subscribed to. I don't mind this looking like Reddit or any other social forum if it works well. It will be easier to browse the forum if we are used to the interface before hand.

Is there a gallery view for DIY pics? I'm on mobile do can't see that huge pic with composite images in it.

I'm not bothered by votes or awards etc so no comments on that.

 

[nRiTeCh]

I'm in...

Post automatically merged: Jul 5, 2020

We can very well refer popular platforms like reddit, quora and other forums but what we should focus is on having our own unique design which the end user has never experienced.
And our very own app like the good old Te which sadly never saw the update for new Android platforms thanks to Tapatalk which is again a clutter of so many forums clubbed into one.

We shall look forward to offer altogether a different experience in terms of content and UI experience.
Tough I'm not a coder, I can certainly contribute towards defining Xello in terms of UI ideas, content categorizations, user feel, features and so on...

Will help with images or features from other similar apps/forums and how we can implement them into Xello in an improvised manner.

 

[mach9]

I like the initiative guys! Keep going! TE for life [emoji2938]

 

[Renegade]

Tough I'm not a coder, I can certainly contribute towards defining Xello in terms of UI ideas, content categorizations, user feel, features and so on...

Will help with images or features from other similar apps/forums and how we can implement them into Xello in an improvised manner.

Sure, that would be great. Looking forward to it.

I like the frontpage system in Reddit where we get to see all the new/popular posts of the subs we are subscribed to. I don't mind this looking like Reddit or any other social forum if it works well. It will be easier to browse the forum if we are used to the interface before hand.

Is there a gallery view for DIY pics? I'm on mobile do can't see that huge pic with composite images in it.

That image is just an indicator to show that, all this is a lot of work and will take time. It is intentionally blurred.

Yeah all the discussion systems have similar UI elements and it is natural to draw inspiration from each other.

 

[letmein]

Regular Reddit user, and I guess a regular TE user as well.

Good luck to you and TE. While I cannot give dedicated time to the project, I understand the need for it.

I just want to give my 2 cents as to why I think forums are dying (as of today). While I don't have any concrete suggestions on how to revive them, maybe my thoughts will help you to understand the user's perspective. Please don't be offended by my post, I just wanted to let you guys know why I prefer reddit over (most) forums.

The main benefit with reddit is that it offers a place to discuss nearly everything under the sun with one user ID. To me, this is the single most important factor as to why I've stopped using (and registering on) forums. I can get faster responses to my tech/ PC/ mobile queries on their dedicated subreddits. Since IMDb closed their message boards, I usually rely on dedicated subs to discuss movies (and by extension TV shows, music and Youtube content creators). I can post a simple question on 'how do I do "X" and get a quick response - and this X could vary from 'where to I invest my money' to 'how do I screw in a lightbulb'. I can post some Bollywood gossip and talk to people who are interested. There are dedicated subreddits for games and electronic deals, that I rely on, simply because of the sheer number of users that visit the subs and post threads. With all due respect, whenever a 'deal' is posted on TE, I'm usually too late to grab it.

The upvote/ downvote style is cancerous though. And as with TE, I steer away from any threads/ subs that have to do with politics and religion. And I don't think it's right to sort new threads by how 'hot' they are - this is why I have selected the default subreddit view as 'new'. If you are thinking of something on the lines of reddit, I would suggest you think long and hard about the up/downvote and the default sorting criterion.

Having said that, there are a few exceptions to the forums I frequent. I still visit TE (because of nostalgia and of the 'desi' feel) and WatchUSeek forums (mainly because of the historical content).

Good luck.

 

[Renegade]

The main benefit with reddit is that it offers a place to discuss nearly everything under the sun with one user ID. To me, this is the single most important factor as to why I've stopped using (and registering on) forums. I can get faster responses to my tech/ PC/ mobile queries on their dedicated subreddits. Since IMDb closed their message boards, I usually rely on dedicated subs to discuss movies (and by extension TV shows, music and Youtube content creators). I can post a simple question on 'how do I do "X" and get a quick response - and this X could vary from 'where to I invest my money' to 'how do I screw in a lightbulb'. I can post some Bollywood gossip and talk to people who are interested. There are dedicated subreddits for games and electronic deals, that I rely on, simply because of the sheer number of users that visit the subs and post threads. With all due respect, whenever a 'deal' is posted on TE, I'm usually too late to grab it.

The upvote/ downvote style is cancerous though. And as with TE, I steer away from any threads/ subs that have to do with politics and religion. And I don't think it's right to sort new threads by how 'hot' they are - this is why I have selected the default subreddit view as 'new'. If you are thinking of something on the lines of reddit, I would suggest you think long and hard about the up/downvote and the default sorting criterion.

I want that to be the main benefit of Xello as well. You have almost completely summed up my observations and thoughts.

One place for everything
Add to that the fact that here on TE as well there are members who feel we should have XYZ forum. But the way the forums are structured, the bandwidth that we have and the interest that the community has in a new forum, we are not able to take up that request. So with Xello, I was thinking of setting up a handful of basic communities initially by us and then allow any member to start a community. Anyone who is interested in a topic which they feel is not adequately getting addressed can start a community, assign moderators, promote it and run the way they like.

But I do not want to see everything
Now how do we handle the sprawl of unwanted posts that this will create. Here on TE we are already fighting with the problem that the Market threads take up a lot of unwanted space for members who are not interested in that forum. Xello should have a subscriber view so that you can view the posts only from forums you are interested in viewing. But if you still want to see everything under the sun, you should be able to do that as well. This should satisfy users from both the camps.

Limitations with Forum Software
Now these are precisely one of the important reasons I want to ditch forums softwares altogether. We had to rely on broken third party plugin to enable the functionality to ignore forums from the whats new feed. To us it is a very basic and necessary feature but to XenForo it is not important at all. Not even important enough to create a supported and managed plugin.

Religion and Politics
Personally I like 'no religion and politics' rule but increasingly it is hard to separate these. A dedicated forum for just these types of topics is a way to go. You only get to see those posts, if you want to. Even with user owned communities with local rules, the global rules will supersede those. The first rule of community 'no personal attacks' can be implemented strictly.

Rules Implementation
We have had recent discussions on how moderators can be unfair to members, so when there is a free hand to create communities and assign moderators, this becomes all the more concerning. To handle this we can have a system of cool off period, where a moderator can at max block a member from posting anything for a day. If a member accumulates 5 of such cool off periods on his profile, the member will get put on an audit list and a super moderator can review the past incidents and take action whether to permanently ban the member or whether it is the moderator abusing their power.


These discussions help shape the direction we will take with Xello, so I urge everyone to post as much as needed.

On another note, how do we retain that desi and close community feel that we have on TE in a Xello kind of a setup.

 

[ninjenstein]

Umm just to be on the same page, what we're doing here is planning to make a brand new forum, right? Owing to the shortcomings that users of TE face, as pointed out by you?

I'm not a dev, but I'm getting into the stuff... From what little I know, WordPress seems to be a good option. Just my $0.02...

Post automatically merged: Jul 12, 2020

• July - Decide feature set for first release (Minimum Viable Product). Create Visual Designs.
• August - Frontend Development (Android and iOS)
• September - Backend Development
• October - Closed group alpha testing and development
• November - Invite only beta testing and development
• December - Release and post release issue fixing
• January onwards - ongoing enhancements and web interface development

Seems like too ambitious of a roadmap

 

[Renegade]

Umm just to be on the same page, what we're doing here is planning to make a brand new forum, right? Owing to the shortcomings that users of TE face, as pointed out by you?

I'm not a dev, but I'm getting into the stuff... From what little I know, WordPress seems to be a good option. Just my $0.02...

Seems like too ambitious of a roadmap

Wordpress is even more of a step back than where we are right now. Yes, it is an extremely ambitious roadmap, but no harm in setting high goals.

 

[rudiv]

Limitations with Forum Software
Now these are precisely one of the important reasons I want to ditch forums softwares altogether. We had to rely on broken third party plugin to enable the functionality to ignore forums from the whats new feed. To us it is a very basic and necessary feature but to XenForo it is not important at all. Not even important enough to create a supported and managed plugin.

Just my 2 paisa, but I have heard good things about Discourse, at least in terms of being the best open-source option for forums right now (not in reference to the particular feature you mentioned, but more in reference to ditching forum software).

I understand the current software used (XenForo) is built in PHP and MySQL. Again, I preface this by saying I'm no expert developer and I only have 5-6 years of experience with PHP, but in my experience outside of Symfony (and maybe Laravel for some things) based solutions I have found it very difficult to add additional functionality to PHP projects, especially long running projects that have essentially built their own framework in bits and pieces over time (e.g. a lot of PHP eCommerce frameworks). From what I have heard (don't work with Ruby myself) Ruby on Rails based software is a lot more easily extensible, or at least there isn't so much of a difference between extending something built recently vs something that had been going for a long time, as long as it has been kept up to date with the core framework (Ruby on Rails).

Again, just my thoughts, I may have a wrong impression, and I definitely have no experience with XenForo so I am not an authority on whether or not it's comparable in extensibility with Symfony or Discourse for that matter.

 

[Renegade]

If you followed the database thread then you would know why there is no progress on Xello even after such a long time. Just thought I would drop in an update to put pressure on myself. I am expecting the first alpha with basic features (minimum viable product) on iOS and android to be out by end of January. Will definitely post a video of the progress as on date in the last week of December. Have not started work on the web version yet so not sure when that is happening.

Meanwhile following is the video of the first prototype that I was testing to decide between Flutter and other framework. I stopped work on it last year itself. You will notice another app Icon next to Xello. That is the current app in development with updated design and features which I will be showcasing next month.