How to clean the inside of a washing machine and keep it that way

Common/Very useful topic but way too lengthy..
We use a Samsung top loading washing machine 6.5 kg (as suggested by a member on this forum).
We clean it once a month with default machine parameters with liquid dish cleaner (entire process takes 2 hours, water is filled upto top most level = 5)

I hope if there is something more to do ?

I have documented the steps of the wash cycle here in case you are interested


My take away from this thread is : for Samsung Top Load Washing Machines
  • Start Tub Clean cycle
  • Wait for water to fill in
  • Add about 200ml lyzol for cleaning
  • Add 100gm Citric Acid for descaling
  • optional : Switch off washing machine for 30min


@blr_p Please correct if I made a error.
 
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We clean it once a month with default machine parameters with liquid dish cleaner (entire process takes 2 hours, water is filled upto top most level = 5)

I hope if there is something more to do ?
Can you link to the product you use?
I normally add 1 cup of Dettol liquid (original one) when washing my laundry to sanitise them. I do it regularly.
Won't be as effective as using a disinfectant like the Dettol one linked earlier or the laundry sanitiser by Savlon. Switch to either and use in the last rinse by putting it in the softener tray. But you need dwell time for it to remove germs. The standard rinse is too short. This is where the rinse hold feature comes in handy as it halts the machine before spin begins and I leave it to soak for at least twenty minutes. Ten minutes to soak is a minimum but the last rinse cycle is done in just 5 minutes usually. I think that is too short to complete disinfection.

Antiseptics are applied to living organisms, not inanimate objects. If Dettol is truly an antiseptic, then its concentration of biocide will be low, and possibly ineffective once it is diluted in the cleaning bucket.

A disinfectant is designed to kill bacteria on inanimate objects. If the Lysol contains cleaning agents as well as a biocide, then your floor will be clean and disinfected. I recommend rinsing the floor afterwards.
Liked her explanation
 
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My take away from this thread is : for Samsung Top Load Washing Machines
  • Start Tub Clean cycle
  • Wait for water to fill in
  • Add about 200ml lyzol for cleaning
  • Add 100gm Citric Acid for descaling
  • optional : Switch off washing machine for 30min


@blr_p Please correct if I made a error.
Correct. Since it's a top loader if you can use hot water out of the geezer it will help for tub cleaning. With a front loader, the water temperature for the tub clean cycle is default 60 degrees. Remember to fill to the top as fungus and other microbes grow more towards the top since very little water goes there. Two rinses after is mandatory, you can use tap water filled to the top.

You could also alternate with about 200gm Vanish powder alone to switch things around. I think switching off the machine with Vanish works better. You will not be able to use citric acid with Vanish together though and have to do that separately in a second tub clean or you could skip it for the next tub clean if your water is not too hard.
Cannot locate bill, was bought offline, but here are some pics
I meant the dish cleaner
 
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I think one should use benzalkonium chloride sparingly it can cause some serious skin infection like granular parakeratosis although in small number of individuals.

https://www.dermatologyrepublic.com.au/skin-warning-on-laundry-sanitisers/1159

For laundry sanitisers, I would only use it if I detected a smell in wet clothes. After one use the smell is usually gone. So once a month if that is all I need with bath towels which tend to harbour smelly bacteria that regular detergent alone cannot tackle. Whereas in your links I assume people were using the sanitiser with every wash. The sanitiser is used in the last rinse so it will leave a residue in clothes.

Also in a top loader, there aren't many options to sanitise clothes besides using a laundry sanitiser or Vanish as wash temperatures aren't high enough. And with some clothes, you can't use a high temperature.

But laundry sanitisers were unnecessary, “and certainly not necessary for getting rid of covid”, Professor Nixon said.
Correct, just laundry detergent was good enough. But you do need them to handle bacteria & fungus.

Companies saw an opportunity to make a fast buck and confused the picture by saying their product fights covid.

Professor Nixon said people who were particularly concerned about germs may use higher quantities of sanitisers in the belief it would be more effective.
Follow the instructions on the bottle and don't overdose in the case of laundry sanitisers. The trick with laundry sanitisers or disinfectants isn't to use more but allow adequate dwell time. Give it enough time to disinfect. The last rinse in a front loader isn't long enough to sanitise clothes. That's why I pause the machine and give it a good twenty minutes to soak.

An alternative is to add some Vanish powder to detergent powder when washing clothes. It's an effective microbicide. Don't use Vanish liquid as it contains no oxygen bleach and cannot act as a microbicide.

Finally, you could opt to wash at 60 degrees which will use heat to sanitise. But some clothes might not be able to handle it. As a rule, I wash bedsheets towels and undergarments at 60 anyway,

With tub cleaning and Lizol, you aren't washing clothes but the machine. The Lizol gets used in the main wash, not like laundry sanitiser in the last rinse. Then there are a couple of rinses, so the risk is even lower here. Once every 40 washes isn't all that often either.

The general rule is if you don't feel well after then stop using the product. So far I've been fine.


dettol washing machine cleaner.jpg

Very interesting. So Lizol substitutes Dettol's washing machine cleaner at a much lower cost. See how expensive Dettol's cleaner is. It's a targeted product so a higher price is to be expected and you're supposed to use the full bottle in one go.

At Rs.500 a pop, who is going to use this product often as is required to clean machines? that's why this thread exists :)

In our series, all patients reported use of a laundry rinse containing BAC prior to development of the rash.
ok, just laundry sanitisers and not tub cleaners

the EPA limits BAC content to 3% in hair products and 0.1% in other cosmetics, such as hand-sanitisers.
Let's work out the concentration or recommended dose for a tub clean. We don't use these products neat. They are diluted with water.

60ml of 2.4584% BAC in Lizol in 5 litres of water for a Cottons 65 or 180ml in 15 litres of water for LG's tub clean works out to 0.03% BAC final concentration in the wash cycle.

60ml of 4% BAC in Dettol disinfectant in 5 litres of water for a Cottons 65 or 180ml in 15 litres of water for LG's tub clean works out to 0.05% BAC final concentration in the wash cycle.

Lizol is one-third and Dettol disinfectant is half that in hand sanitisers that you apply directly to your skin. You will use hand sanitisers more often than once in three months, yes?

In a top loader, the final BAC concentration is lower still

250ml of 2.4584% BAC in Lizol in 50 litres of water works out to 0.012% BAC final concentration in the wash cycle.

250ml of 4% BAC in Dettol disinfectant in 50 litres of water works out to 0.02% BAC final concentration in the wash cycle.

Or half what we got in the front loader.

A mouldy machine is more likely to cause allergies in susceptible people than a clean machine. What do you choose?

People often blame detergents or other additives for causing these allergies but I bet a dirty machine is at the root of it. A washing machine is the dirtiest appliance you will ever own.
 
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I think one should use benzalkonium chloride sparingly it can cause some serious skin infection like granular parakeratosis although in small number of individuals.
I decided to look for reviews on Amazon UK for people complaining about Dettol's laundry sanitiser as I could not find any for Dettol's tub cleaner. The amazon listing has reviews for both the Dettol Laundry sanitiser as well as the tub cleaner

Searched for terms reaction, rash, allerg individually.

Out of 1,234 reviews for Dettol's laundry sanitiser which is a decent sample size. There don't seem to be many complaints. We're talking about a really small number of individuals here.

Those with sensitive skin or other skin-related conditions that have no problem
Reassuringly clean and fresh laundry
It REALLY works!

No, it doesn’t smell like Dettol disinfectant!
Reassuring Disinfection At Lower Temperature Washing
Great for regular use
Good for delicate skin
:oops:

Those who complained of an allergic reaction
Watch out for allergic reaction
Bad idea
Caused allergic reaction out of nowhere!!
Buyer Beware Spring Fresh contains Irritant ~ Not suitable for those with allergies! (just the smell of it in the laundry room when used was enough to set off persistent coughing)
Three Stars
Apparently I'm allergic to this. It makes me cough ...

A couple of possibilities to reduce exposure would be to reverse the order in which the laundry sanitiser is used. Instead of using it in the last rinse, use it as a presoak. Then wash as normal after. It will have had time to work on any accumulated bacteria as mentioned in this review. With sportswear, this may be the only way to keep it smell-free as the tight weave makes deeper cleaning with detergent impossible. Or if you like pets and whatever bedding they use.

The other possibility is to run a second wash say the quick/express wash after your main wash is complete with the sanitiser in the main wash compartment (where you put detergent) instead of the softener. If the wash cycle is twenty minutes at least then you are good.

On a side note, Clorox makes a sanitiser that specifies the rinse cycle should be at least 16 minutes long. This is what dwell time means. I've not seen these instructions on other brands and it's a glaring omission.
 

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Ok so i don't know if I did something wrong or what. I bought vanish months back and today I tried to use it to clean the machine. Kept something around 20gm(not sure) in the powder holder of the machine. Added 3 normal sized bathroom towels and ran the machine in tub clean. Surprisingly there was little to no foam. Then I tried to do the fizz the test and vanish did not fixed that much.
Not sure what went wrong @blr_p
 
During one summer dry period, my front load washing machine was not in use for continuous two days. It was really so dry day. In one hour one soaked towel may get dried if kept hanging outside .
When after two days I used washing machine, there was a bit of continuous cracking sound and somewhere around 200gms of calcium scales was filled in wastage pipe.. I think drum got completely cleaned
 
Ok so i don't know if I did something wrong or what. I bought vanish months back and today I tried to use it to clean the machine. Kept something around 20gm(not sure) in the powder holder of the machine. Added 3 normal sized bathroom towels and ran the machine in tub clean. Surprisingly there was little to no foam.
Try with just one towel. 3 is too many at which point you're washing the towels instead of cleaning the machine. It should be a clean towel as well. Thing with a big item is it can lead to imbalance. If it's a thick towel then it acts like a sponge and causes foam which you are trying to counter. So something light like a kerela towel.

I use about 3 - 5 light mops just to keep the foam down. Smaller and separate items won't cause imbalance. I keep these separate in a bag just for tub cleans.

Also 20gm of Vanish is too little. Use a full scoop or 50gm. There should be one in the packet, which is either 30gm or 50gm depending on the size packet of Vanish you get. Post a photo of the scoop.

Which wash program did you use? You should be using the tub clean cycle as that uses 15 litres of water

Then I tried to do the fizz the test and vanish did not fixed that much.
I don't understand what you mean. There was no fizz with a teaspoon (5gm) of Vanish in a flask with boiling water? If the Vanish is fine it won't just fizz but foam will overflow out the flask by the time it's half full. Try again and confirm.

If not then your vanish has been exposed to moisture and has expired. Vanish must be kept airtight otherwise it reacts with moisture or humidity and goes flat. I use the 400 gm packets that come with a zip lock. I press the air out of the bag when closing the zip lock and make sure it really closes. You'll know when it does as it takes some effort to open the bag up again.
 
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Try with just one towel. 3 is too many at which point you're washing the towels instead of cleaning the machine. It should be a clean towel as well. Thing with a big item is it can lead to imbalance. If it's a thick towel then it acts like a sponge and causes foam which you are trying to counter. So something light like a kerela towel.

I use about 3 - 5 light mops just to keep the foam down. Smaller and separate items won't cause imbalance.
Ok, got it. so i'll use only one towel. Will try next week.
Also 20gm of Vanish is too little. Use a full scoop or 50gm. There should be one in the packet, which is either 30gm or 50gm depending on the size packet of Vanish you get. Post a photo of the scoop.

Which wash program did you use? You should be using the tub clean cycle as that uses 15 litres of water
Your first post said 20-30 gm so I did the same. The scoop I got is the 60 gm one. So I used less than half of the scoop.
Also, I used the Tub clean program.

I don't understand what you mean. There was no fizz with a teaspoon (5gm) of Vanish in a flask with boiling water? If the Vanish is fine it won't just fizz but foam will overflow out the flask by the time it's half full. Try again and confirm.

If not then your vanish has been exposed to moisture and has expired. Vanish must be kept airtight otherwise it reacts with moisture or humidity and goes flat. I use the 400 gm packets that come with a zip lock. I press the air out of the bag when closing the zip lock and make sure it really closes. You'll know when it does as it takes some effort to open the bag up again.
Ok, so this i did differently. I took one tablespoon of vanish in a cup and added boiling water on it. May be cos of that little foam only created.
Pack was brand new and opened today only.
So to confirm I should take a flask add vanish to it and then add boiling water right?
 
Your first post said 20-30 gm so I did the same. The scoop I got is the 60 gm one. So I used less than half of the scoop.
Also, I used the Tub clean program.
I recommended less so first time users get an idea of the foam levels. If people forget to add any fabric the whole machine will be full in ten minutes even with that little amount. I wanted to avoid this situation because it's discouraging and was the stumbling block for me when I tried years back.

To be an effective cleaner you need oxygen bleach but then how to control the foam? It wasn't until much later I hit on the practical idea of adding fabric to control the foam that I finally understood Vanish powder was a viable and affordable solution.

How much foam is acceptable? Too much or higher than half way up the drum is bad because then it gets to the bearing seals. So you want the foam below half way with the tub clean program. Or for Samsung users with the cottons 65 program.

How much fabric to use? If too little foam then use less fabric. If too much use more fabric.

Check every five minutes to get a feel of how high the foam gets. About half an hour in you will know how high it will get.

Around 50gm or a full scoop is what to use. See how the foam is below half way up in the photo of 50 gm Vanish added to the detergent drawer in the fifth post.

Ok, so this i did differently. I took one tablespoon of vanish in a cup and added boiling water on it. May be cos of that little foam only created.
OK, a dry cup with a teaspoon of Vanish powder in it. With cup in the sink, slowly added boiling water to the cup until half full and waited a few seconds. Slowly the foam started and on its own rose. As I continued to slowly add water the foam reached the top and overflowed the cup.

With a tablespoon like you used much more foam would have been generated. Fill the cup halfway and wait a minute and see how high the foam gets.

The water should be boiling when you add it. Heat up some water on the stove and when it bubbles a lot then add it. Just hot water like from the geezer will react slower and produce less foam so you want it boiling.

To understand the difference, try the same experiment with your washing detergent powder. Surf matic. Fill the cup halfway and wait a minute and see how high the foam gets. Surf or any other washing detergent powder for that matter won't foam up much at all. That's how you know they don't contain any oxygen bleach.

Incidentally similar happens with a dishwasher tablet sample. Almost no foam generated with very little fizz heard. But there should be if oxygen is released. So dishwasher tabs are less effective at cleaning washing machines as they contains less oxygen bleach than Vanish. Yet people keep touting dishwasher tablets on the internet to clean the machine. In countries where Vanish isn't available dishwasher tabs might be the only solution.

Pack was brand new and opened today only.
Should be fresh then and remain so if you reseal the bag properly. Testing from a new packet will give you a baseline to compare.
So to confirm I should take a flask add vanish to it and then add boiling water right?
A flask is preferable to a cup as its more narrow so the overflow happens faster. Also easier to hear any fizz if not much foam is generated as the flask acts like an echo chamber. Thoroughly wash the flask after.
 
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Good documentary on detergents from Singapore.


In the end they conclude with a machine wash because clean machines clean clothes better. She used a Japanese tub cleaner which comes in a 250gm packet and is just like Vanish. Works out to Rs.300 packet.


^The Nichigo people don't think a front loader full of foam is an issue with using their product. I think it's best that not happen. The idea of stopping the machine and letting it soak is good if you have not cleaned the machine in a long time. Though for a front loader I'd advise stopping the machine a half hour after and then letting it sit for a couple of hours. Reason is the water will have completed heating up by then and soaking will be more effective.

Cheaper is a Korean tub cleaner which is the same but is 450gm instead of 250gm.

Top load tub clean instructions.jpeg

^Follow these instructions when using Vanish with a top loader. Use 200gm of Vanish if it's the first time cleaning. You can use 100gm after.

Grabbed this video from one of the reviews as when my machine was dirty I too noticed these flecks on the glass. With a torch I saw them in the foam.

 
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Also Vanish powder has 2 options - Pink and White - Which one to get?
Vanish Crystal White or the regular pink Vanish?

The pink one is cheaper than the white and checking the data sheets from their Emirates website indicates no difference in oxygen bleach content between the pink 'oxi action' powder and the white oxi action 'crystal white' powder. They both share the same data sheet. Meaning both contain similar amounts of oxygen bleach and for the purpose of tub cleaning are equivalent.

Which to get? I'd go with the pink as that is more multi purpose. Can be used with coloured clothes.

Crystal white contains more optical brightners and is more suitable for white clothes and not necessary for tub cleaning.

Now if ever in the future they release a local 'Gold' variant for Vanish I'd go with that as the data sheets shows it contains 10% more oxygen bleach. Presently the gold variant or 'Oxi Advance' is an import and costs much more.
 
9 year old Samsung spider.jpg

This is a drum spider from a 9 yr old Samsung that was opened up to change the bearings. What is striking is the spider has no corrosion at all and looks almost new :oops:

Had this been a Bosch or Siemens the machine would have had to be replaced. But because Samsung's tub isn't sealed another 6-8 years more can be had out of it from a mechanical pov. So if you care for the machine then 10-14 years or even longer is feasible assuming you don't lose the control board.

What a difference from the usual posts that show corroded spiders within 7 years or less with the usual brand bashing about quality and design defects bla bla. Those posts all have one thing in common. The machines are all gunked up and filthy and have not been maintained. Whether the spider lasts is 100% down to use and care or lack thereof. Period!

What is the secret?

An Eco Drum Clean (75) cycle with a dishwashing tablet at 75 C once a month. I suppose nine years ago Sammys drum clean behaved like other drum clean cycles. Allowing the use of chemical cleaners unlike these days where their eco drum clean cycle dumps out the whole wash within five minutes. The only way to do a tub clean with chemicals on recent Samsungs is to run a cottons 65 or 95 cycle.

Wash cycles used were Cottons 40C and Daily Wash 40C. So no cold washes.

Detergent used was liquid non-bio detergent and then laundry sanitizer for rinse (no fabric conditioner ever). So this machine never saw any FS. Don't know how long for or how often laundry sanitizer was used but we know laundry sanitiser contains quats and even periodic use would have kept microbial colonies down.

Because the user lives in an area with very hard water he would now and again run the machine with lactic acid descaling liquid left over from use on the kettles.

So in summary he did monthly drum cleans with dishwasher tablets. Was either a regular or periodic user of laundry sanitizer. And finally descaled the machine on a regular basis.

Oxygen bleach, quats and descaler. The holy trinity :cool:

The clean drum is due to the liquid detergent but the main point is this machine had regular maintenance from day 1 and shows no signs of corrosion unlike the IFB drum I posted earlier .
 
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Tide in the US believes washing in cold water is just as effective as washing in warm and advocates people do so to save the planet :rolleyes:


Tide came out with a cold wash variant back in 2005. This used enzymes that work at cooler temperatures than regular enzymes.

Recommended to read the attached pdf article from the American Chemical Society on this topic by people in the know.

Because Tide Coldwater has “about 20% more active ingredients” than Tide Regular, it costs more to use, says Wiedemann. Comparing bottles of equal volume and price, a consumer who follows the prescribed amount can do six more loads with Tide Regular than with Coldwater. It works out to a few more pennies per load.

Cold-water washing can have two problems, says S. Kay Obendorf, a professor of textiles and apparel at Cornell University. First, she says, in reality, cold water is whatever temperature runs from the tap. Where she lives in upstate New York, that temperature can hover near 32 °F during the winter. Second, clothes washed in cold water can come out of a wash “dirtier” than when they went in because live microbes can redeposit on the clothing. Even if cold-water formulations address these issues, she recommends washing heavily soiled items, such as diapers, in hot water with bleach.
Ian Hardin, a professor of textile sciences at the University of Georgia, also worries about cold-water washing. “If you want better cleaning, higher temperature is always better,” he says. For example, he recommends hot-water washing and thorough drying if transferring a bacterial or a viral illness through a household is a concern. “In creating a product like this, [detergent makers] are responding to the fact that they know there are a lot of people out there who want to do [a] cold-water wash.” In certain cases, it might work. “Compared to a generation ago or maybe two generations ago, most of us don’t get clothes nearly as dirty as we used to,” he says, so “if someone wants to cold-water wash [lightly soiled clothes], I’m sure these products will be just fine.”

I guess when the patent runs out we might see such a detergent in India but until such time stick to warm water because no detergent sold here has those custom enzymes that work with colder temperatures.

Plus cold water slowly ruins the machine over time and causes a lot of scum and residue to build up in the machine where you can’t see it and eventually it will have a smelly odor after.

You have been warned..
 

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Is it possible to destroy a Miele in 6 years. Sure.


€1,500 it cost. Look at how much wider ie. stronger the spider is compared to the Samsung but even that won't save it from user neglect.

The typical format of these videos is to place full responsibility on the manufacturer while accepting none as the user. For a first time user of a front loader unaware of the importance of maintenence this is how it appears.