Inception Discussion thread - SPOILER ZONE !!!!!!!!!!!

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psyph3r

psyph3r

Juggernaut
So there are a few things i wanted to ask but the spoiler tags dont seem to work so heres the thread.

well a lot of us may or may not have doubts so lets help each other out.

When Leonardo and Mal age in their 50 yr dream, why are they shown to be young when they are on the tracks to return to reality even though they were shown to be an old couple in one scene.

Also getting killed in limbo does not return you to a previous state since the sedative used is too powerful, so how does Cobb and Saito return back without the kick, they are shown with a pistol on the table so i assume they killed themselves to wake up but then isn't it a contradiction of the above rule ? Even if they were stuck in limbo for decades they behave so normally after returning back to the airplane sequence.

Also a few people perceive this movie to be entirely Cobb's dream sequence, since Saito asks Cobb to take a leap of faith which is the same words mentioned by Mal in one sequence.

They say it is just cobb's subconscious trying to get out of limbo with creating new characters and ways to get him back to reality

Post your opinions and doubts here
 
1. Cobb has been in limbo in the past and he has learned to navigate through his subconscious and realises the difference between what's real and what's a dream. Mel, his wife was lost in the limbo and she began to believe that it was real. Which is why Cobb had to use inception i.e. to plant an idea into her thoughts that what she and he were doing wasn't reality. That they were stuck in a dream world. That's why they need to kill themselves in the dream world and to come back to reality.

2. About Mel and Cobb growing old together and living their entire 50-60 odd years of life in a dream (which all must have happened in one night in reality), it's not that unbelievable that they were young again. You forget, it's a dream, and that dreams don't run parallel to reality. I've had dreams where I start out at my present age, then suddenly I'm 7 all over again, and back to 27, etc. Dreams are the purest and most unrestricted forms of thought. Learned principles such as logic, ethics, morals don't always make their way into dreams. Not for me at least :P

3. Regarding this point of yours:

Also getting killed in limbo does not return you to a previous state since the sedative used is too powerful, so how does Cobb and Saito return back without the kick, they are shown with a pistol on the table so i assume they killed themselves to wake up but then isn't it a contradiction of the above rule?
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See, Cobb and Ariadne knowingly entered Cobb's limbo because Cobb had been there before. Both Saito and Fischer were killed and absorbed into Cobb's limbo/subconscious. Saito and Fischer would never be able to find their way out because, like Mel, they "awoke" in the limbo state and would have presumed their actual lives and former dream states to be all one big dream. It's like what happened to Cobb's wife, Mel. It's very easy to wander off in the limbo state and forget what's real from dreams. Ariadne managed to save Fischer before time ran out, but it wasn't so the Saito, who got permanently lost in Cobb's subscious, and probably lost his grasp on what was real and what was not. That's why in the end of the film, when Cobb manages to find him, Cobb needs to use inception to plant the idea in Saito's mind that he's living in a dream world and he must return to reality.

Phew, hope I was clear :)
 
Point 1 didnt need explanation

Point 2 - well thats just the type of confusing stuff made by Nolan but its still tolerable for a movie based on dreams :D.

but still returning from limbo was shown to be easier than explained.

I'm just glad the ending was not as abrupt and open to viewer perception as Lost
 
For me, how the story explains itself is that Cobb, who for all the while has been in a dream state and all the characters of the movie are projections of himself.
Presuming that shared dreaming and levels of dreaming is possible, here is my explanation,

Cobb along with his wife are in some x level of shared dreaming ( cobb's the main dreamer here) where his wife realizes that she is not in reality over time. (most possibly using her totem for her exit from level x. Note that cobb gets her back to x level using inception but here has failed to realize that level x is also not a reality) She exits the dream through the free fall, while cobb is still in that x level ( the reason I use X because I feel that is not the reality. Why X level, is becuase if were within one or two levels, you would have her wife coming back in an attempt to get cobb back. Since you go through the entire movie without this situation, I would say it is in an extended level since the real world impact of her wife getting back to reality and then back in to the level where cobb is, will mean significant time lapse in dream world.

In the meanwhile, cobb has sewn himself a web of reality in that x level where his projections make up the whole inception heist.

However,

Since the all of the characters we see here are projections and we also establish the fact that cobb can skip levels on his own as well (shared dream between that girl and cobb where she discovers his memories) where cobb has initated the dream, we can also presume that fact that all of the movie is just 1 or first level of dream as this particular fact means that all of the events could be self induced/imagined where the technology also is a imaginative aspect.
 
I read that. But I think its important for us as well to come to certain conclusions and theories.

For example- a Cinemablends theory shows how the spinning top will fall and it is the ultimate reality. I disagree. Why: if where Cobb is finally ( with his children) in reality, then why does the camera ( ie (Nolan's direction) show the spinning top? If it was actual reality, wouldnt it be implied by not showing the top? The spinning top at the end serves the ultimate purpose of explaining this. ( obviously they cannot show a spinning top forever, hence the screen goes to credits, but people still want to belive the top falls).

They have some stream of thoughts but even then, those are just a few musings from other people like us. Hard facts can only be drawn if Christopher Nolan explains himself of what and how of the movie.
 
I'm going to go see it again tonight, this time to notice if the kids in the end wear the exact same clothes from his memory, and if their actions before turning around also match those from his memories exactly.

If Leo is in his own head, the totem doesn't mean anything, iirc, it only proves if you're in somebody elses head or not. In your own head, the totem test could only show what you want it to show you - though I could be wrong here. I'm also thinking when the kids turned around to face him, Leo walked away from the totem, at this point I think he stopped caring if the world he's in is real or not.
 
^ Well Nolan wouldn't have messed with our minds with spinning top in the end then, eh? He's not gonna come up with explanations for the story he too 8 years to write, he's going to sit sipping a nice glass of margarita and enjoy reading interwebs going crazy trying to decipher it. :P
 
Nolan did say in an interview the movie has a clear plot with an ending. He left it for open interpretation but its not a neverending hole that would go round and round :P
 
^ Well it is as he said, but that's for most of the viewers, who like to watch good movie.

But as it goes with thinkers, try digging deeper in the story and you'll know how deep the rabbit-hole goes. :)
 
I saw the movie yesterday and was a little confused. Thought of going through this thread to clear things a little, and guess what i still have no clue what the hell happened :bleh:
 
Some theories of my own ( to answer the questions put forward by my friends) to add to the confusion :P

1. In limbo Saito is old and Cobb is not

--> Saito doesn't know he's in Limbo and Leo does.

2. Cobb and Mal are shown to be old and then young again when lying on the track

--> Cobb mentioned that they were trying to understand the concept of "dream within a dream" and that they kept going deeper and deeper. As you go deeper, the time starts going faster. This way, they could have been trapped for 50 odd years and now Mal refused to believe that she was dreaming.

The only thing that I'm not clear about is limbo.

Everywhere people are saying that limbo is a shared space. No one owns ( that dream state ) it and anyone who goes deep enough gets stuck in it. But Cobb says that this is my and Mal's limbo.

Earlier Cobb somehow realizes it and kills himself and Mal to get out. Now, they do a lot of construction while they are there and build from their memories. So, everyone who ends up in Limbo should see all those buildings etc. But when Cobb washes up on the shore and is picked up by Saito's men, we cannot see any trace of the buildings. I'm confused over this.

Go over this: Inception Ending Explained (and Discussion) - Screen Rant

Pretty detailed!
 
Why is the "totem" (or what rule in the movie/plot makes it) a reliable way of determining if you're dreaming or not? I mean, what if the totem (like Leo's) stops spinning and drops off in his dream/conscious as well? OMG I shudder at the thought.

--- Updated Post - Automerged ---

Nice idea/theory? -> http://www.techenclave.com/general-talk/rate-the-last-movie-you-saw-63501-511.html#post1549371

Ellen Page created 5th level for DiCaprio to enjoy with his kids.
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That would be a really nice spoiler/plot/intro for Inception Part Deux :D
 
There's a glaring mistake in the movie.. Initially when they want to enter Level 1 with Fischer, they drug him to sleep and then wire all of them up to sedate themselves and dream together. Now all of them have been dreaming and when they wake up there are no wires. How is this possible?
 
^ Seriously?? :O

The last one to wake up was Cobbs and Saito and since he was in limbo, there is no way others would wake him up. So before he woke up, everyone else was up and packed up. Cobbs and Saito's waking up was outside the sedative's effect wearing off or removing the wires. So others could remove the wires and pack it up and simply wait for them to escape from limbo and wake up.
 
psyph3r said:
Also getting killed in limbo does not return you to a previous state since the sedative used is too powerful, so how does Cobb and Saito return back without the kick, they are shown with a pistol on the table so i assume they killed themselves to wake up but then isn't it a contradiction of the above rule ? Even if they were stuck in limbo for decades they behave so normally after returning back to the airplane sequence.
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Getting killed in limbo is the only way to get out of the dream, its getting killed in levels which takes you to limbo because sedatives are powerful and ur mind has nowhere else to go, :P...

Also from my POV, Saito is old in limbo because Saito died much earlier, and remember minutes can mean decades in limbo, Cobb is young because he died later and not because he knew he was in limbo, remember he was confused when brought to Saito's place, only after looking at the spinning totem does he realises/remember why he is there......
 
Anish said:
There's a glaring mistake in the movie.. Initially when they want to enter Level 1 with Fischer, they drug him to sleep and then wire all of them up to sedate themselves and dream together. Now all of them have been dreaming and when they wake up there are no wires. How is this possible?
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Yep, no wires, thus the conclusion that Page built that level for Leo - oh yes.

So, anyone want to take a stab at the totem rule thing?

--- Updated Post - Automerged ---
vishalrao said:
Why is the "totem" (or what rule in the movie/plot makes it) a reliable way of determining if you're dreaming or not? I mean, what if the totem (like Leo's) stops spinning and drops off in his dream/conscious as well?
Click to expand...
.............

--- Updated Post - Automerged ---

Cobb's wife Mal locked the totem up in a safe - this means it wasn't really Inception - just a state of denial. The movie should be re-titled. If it were real Inception then the totem would stop spinning even in their (her) dream world. Q.E.D. / Q.F.T. / W.T.F. whatever
 
Anish said:
There's a glaring mistake in the movie.. Initially when they want to enter Level 1 with Fischer, they drug him to sleep and then wire all of them up to sedate themselves and dream together. Now all of them have been dreaming and when they wake up there are no wires. How is this possible?
Click to expand...

Firstly, the last part of the movie has purposely left vague. The genius of Nolan. But this part is pretty clear. On the airplane, they were in Rao's ( Indian chap :P ) dream. We only see the plane when Cobb and Saito return. It is evident by the looks on other people's faces that Cobb and Saito have woken up much later than other. Might only be an hour for others who had woken up but decades for Saito and Cobb. I don't think that there is any confusion there.

vishalrao said:
Why is the "totem" (or what rule in the movie/plot makes it) a reliable way of determining if you're dreaming or not? I mean, what if the totem (like Leo's) stops spinning and drops off in his dream/conscious as well? OMG I shudder at the thought.
Click to expand...

Mal and Cobb must have most probably shared their totem. Because even earlier there was no indication that Cobb ever had a separate one. The totem only showed them if they were present in someone else's dream. That is why a person never allowed anyone else to touch his totem. If the dreamer didn't know how the totem worked, he cannot project its behavior for the totem owner. I don't think that it could help you if your dreaming your own dream since your subconscious already knows the behavior of the totem and can replicate it.

Anyone wants to share the thoughts on the limbo state? I'm confused regarding that part.
 
No I meant that Eams/Fischer/Arthur/Ariadne woke up at the same time and if Fischer had seen the wires the plan would've failed.

Anyway, the most logical explanation is that the airhostess took off the wires just before they got up since she is the one that connected them also.
 
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