India’s ‘Make in India’ Faces Collateral Damage

[Renegade]

All the talk about Make in India, shifting manufacturing over from China, banning Chinese Apps and Investments, while you cannot lift a finger without them.

China has restricted exports of key materials like gallium, germanium, antimony, and lithium tech—crucial for solar panels, electronics, and EV batteries, which are central to India’s ‘Make in India’ program.

These curbs, aimed at the US, indirectly disrupt Indian industries dependent on Chinese imports. Sectors like solar power, electronics, and EVs face delays and supply chain issues. India’s imports from China rose to $101.73 billion in 2023-24, showing its reliance.

Experts warn these restrictions could worsen geopolitical tensions. Ajay Srivastava from GTRI noted that while India suffers now, China’s actions might hurt its own interests due to strained ties with New Delhi. Post-Galwan clashes in 2020, India tightened Chinese investments over security concerns.

In short, China’s export controls are stalling India’s growth in critical industries while highlighting the risks of over-dependence on one nation for essential inputs.

 

[blr_p]

All the talk about Make in India, shifting manufacturing over from China, banning Chinese Apps and Investments, while you cannot lift a finger without them.

Not true. Chinese investments were phased out successively after Galwan. Bigbasket is a good example.

China has restricted exports of key materials like gallium, germanium, antimony, and lithium tech—crucial for solar panels, electronics, and EV batteries, which are central to India’s ‘Make in India’ program.

Rare earths are not that rare. What is lacking is refining capabilities. The more China restricts exports, the more capacity will be built around the world. India btw isn't lacking in rare earths at all.

These curbs, aimed at the US, indirectly disrupt Indian industries dependent on Chinese imports. Sectors like solar power, electronics, and EVs face delays and supply chain issues. India’s imports from China rose to $101.73 billion in 2023-24, showing its reliance.

Temporary setback. Once upon a time OPEC also dictated to the world and the decade after saw a crash in oil priced that lasted right through the 80s.

Experts warn these restrictions could worsen geopolitical tensions. Ajay Srivastava from GTRI noted that while India suffers now, China’s actions might hurt its own interests due to strained ties with New Delhi. Post-Galwan clashes in 2020, India tightened Chinese investments over security concerns.

As India should. Always look for non Chinese options if equivalent products can be found. Phones & appliances are two sectors where Chinese isn't required.

In short, China’s export controls are stalling India’s growth in critical industries while highlighting the risks of over-dependence on one nation for essential inputs.

Yeah, overhyped rhetoric

 

[6pack]

Sectors like solar power, electronics, and EVs face delays and supply chain issues. India’s imports from China rose to $101.73 billion in 2023-24, showing its reliance.

ha, maybe this will give our sleeping bureaucrats (the main guys pulling the strings in administration behind the ministers) some push to develop our own infrastructure for these minerals or even push us towards more nuclear power plants. There won't be need of too many EV's if we make electric trams the preferred mode of transport. No need of over dependence on solar if we had set up nuclear plants 10 years back. But reality is, nothing will happen. We will blame china and do nothing. Or we will import from some other country like USA, Argentina or Canada for 10x the price from China and keep grumbling.

Experts warn these restrictions could worsen geopolitical tensions. Ajay Srivastava from GTRI noted that while India suffers now, China’s actions might hurt its own interests due to strained ties with New Delhi. Post-Galwan clashes in 2020, India tightened Chinese investments over security concerns.

yeah, about that - we are too stupid to hurt China. We don't negotiate properly and don't have the balls to negotiate firmly. China won't hurt. India will hurt. India can go all the way and ban Chinese imports and the only ones hurting will be Indian businessmen who make a killing importing cheap Chinese stuff and selling at 10x-20x the price here. I hope China bans exporting electronic stuff to India. All these import curbs and duties will come crashing down in a week tops.

 

[CasualGamer91]

Long for good term

 

[blr_p]

we are too stupid to hurt China.

And they know we are no pushover if push comes to shove.

We don't negotiate properly and don't have the balls to negotiate firmly.

Ever heard of the nuclear deal we got with the Americans?

What was that line Strobe Talbot said after we conducted the '98 tests

India is in the doghouse. They want into the big house. We're trying to find them a halfway house

China won't hurt. India will hurt. India can go all the way and ban Chinese imports and the only ones hurting will be Indian businessmen who make a killing importing cheap Chinese stuff and selling at 10x-20x the price here.

You already said it is Indian businessmen that will hurt. They are not India.

I hope China bans exporting electronic stuff to India. All these import curbs and duties will come crashing down in a week tops.

Do you think China are dumb enough to do that

 

[Emperor]

Do you think China are dumb enough to do that

.. they already delaying sending Hitech Machines to Lenovo India, Apple India etc. since months, keeping machines at china port, no clearance to ship to India.

 

[lockhrt999]

There's no such thing as 'Make in India'. Indians are so gullible.

Most 'Make in India' products can be found on Alibaba. Just take product photo. Remove the Indian company's logo and do google image search. It'll find the original Alibaba links for you. Alibaba sellers put 'Make in India' tag on their product by request of Indian importers.

All small to big companies do it to appease Indians. Recently bought 2 Samsung products. Boxes of both products had 'Made in India' written on them in multiple locations. But when you open those boxes and look at the products, you will find 'Made in Vietnam'. So, only boxes were made in India?

India can go all the way and ban Chinese imports and the only ones hurting will be Indian businessmen who make a killing importing cheap Chinese stuff and selling at 10x-20x the price here. I hope China bans exporting electronic stuff to India. All these import curbs and duties will come crashing down in a week tops.

If that happens, India will be thrown into the Stone Age. All industries will close down and we will all go back to farming.

China has restricted exports of key materials like gallium, germanium, antimony, and lithium tech—crucial for solar panels, electronics, and EV batteries, which are central to India’s ‘Make in India’ program.

Not just the raw material…

How China wants to press pause on India's Apple success story

China is hindering India's Apple manufacturing progress by delaying the supply of high-tech machinery, impacting sectors like electronics and EVs. This move aims to disrupt the Make in India initiative and Foxconn's expansion, especially as India emerges as a key player in global iPhone production.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

China doesn't want us to use Indian screws to assemble an iPhone.

 

[Kilroyquasar]

Ever heard of the nuclear deal we got with the Americans?

What was that line Strobe Talbot said after we conducted the '98 tests

India is in the doghouse. They want into the big house. We're trying to find them a halfway house

a bit OT, but commerce aside, the recent disengagement deal with china was one-of-its-kind that saw the infamous neighbourhood bully being forced to retreat ianm for the first time from an aggressed position.
and on the commerce-side (albeit in defence), the rafale negotiations too were not something trivial.

 

[vink]

China doesn't want us to use Indian screws to assemble an iPhone.

ofc china would be fool to let US and India take away iPhone manufacturing so easily...

 

[rsaeon]

hey look it's the new dark ages

—

On a more serious note, it's far too late for any nation to start from scratch on anything. Progress will become regress and it'll cripple a generation or two.

Take a look at the american oil industry, they built-up their own over decades while relying on the middle east, we should've done the same with regards to any raw material but instead the weathier became wealthier.

India as a whole is very short sighted. Nobody here could see the need for rechargeable batteries or circuit board manufacturing 10 or 20 years ago. They still can't see it today.

The cheapest chinese junk is at a standard that would be considered premium anywhere else, including the US. I'm talking about electronics manufacturing, not quality control. That's still junk. But it is beautifully designed, aesthetically pleasing junk.

Matte black circuit boards, gold plated pads — for stuff that is sold for less than Rs 100 retail.

 

[lockhrt999]

a bit OT, but commerce aside, the recent disengagement deal with china was one-of-its-kind that saw the infamous neighbourhood bully being forced to retreat for the first time from an aggressed position.
and on the commerce-side (albeit in defence), the rafale negotiations too were not something trivial.

Mate, disengagement =/= retreat.

China is still occupying that land. India has chosen to look the other way. Officially, India never acknowledged that China took our land, so there was no question of taking the land back.

And, forget about Galwan. China is building the world's biggest dam on the Brahmaputra (3 times bigger than the current biggest dam in the world, Three gorges). China will retain a trigger to flood major portions of NE India and Bangladesh at a whim. Galwan is a small fish.

 

[blr_p]

.. they already delaying sending Hitech Machines to Lenovo India, Apple India etc. since months, keeping machines at china port, no clearance to ship to India.

Interesting. So they do fear India at some level then. Because most don't believe it.

There's no such thing as 'Make in India'. Indians are so gullible.

Artillery is a good example of make in India. Other areas in the defence sector too and growing. So obviously there is such a thing as 'Make in India', just you and others are ignorant of it. I only have to point to one area where this is true to debunk your assertion.

Not just the raw material…

How China wants to press pause on India's Apple success story

China is hindering India's Apple manufacturing progress by delaying the supply of high-tech machinery, impacting sectors like electronics and EVs. This move aims to disrupt the Make in India initiative and Foxconn's expansion, especially as India emerges as a key player in global iPhone production.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

China doesn't want us to use Indian screws to assemble an iPhone.

What stops us making these screws eventually ourselves? We already make lots of parts for export in the auto sector and for over a decade now

All this witholding will only accelerate it. These stunts by China appear desperate and will not make much of a dent in the long run. But see how the tone is set right at the top post. We are so helpless (read useless as some here would have you believe) because of China. Boo Hoo Hoo.

The doubting thomases here are already crapping their pants. These people are easily scared about just anything. Always the same 'we is fcuked' broken record. Easy and lazy because it takes no effort. Obviously.

Countering like I'm doing. Not easy. Takes a great deal of time to learn. That you and company are not ready to do nor will you ever be. Nevermind. There are people in this country that are. Otherwise we wouldn't be where we are today or have this consistent record of growing since independence.

India and its future growth is unstoppable. We have a proven record going back seventy years during which time we never had and still do not have a peace dividend. Why else do we need a million man army.

We are an unassisted economy. Despite facing sanctions we grew. What China is doing is a mini version of sanctions. Been there done that. I want you of all people to internalise this.

Examples of assisted economies are Germany, Japan & China. Especially China. How do you think they made so much progress. All due to American help and peace dividend for over half a century. The 100 yr marathon by Michael Pilsbury should be on your reading list.

 

[Kilroyquasar]

Mate, disengagement =/= retreat.

China is still occupying that land. India has chosen to look the other way. Officially, India never acknowledged that China took our land, so there was no question of taking the land back.

And, forget about Galwan. China is building the world's biggest dam on the Brahmaputra (3 times bigger than the current biggest dam in the world, Three gorges). China will retain a trigger to flood major portions of NE India and Bangladesh at a whim. Galwan is a small fish.

may be a wrong choice of word. what i meant was india putting a halt to china's 'salami-slicing' strategy in eastern ladakh, a stance that was unfamiliar & unexpected to them wrt india (or for that matter anybody in their neighbourhood). though it does sound like 'retreat' from the positions/points of friction during the standoff wherein the traditional patrolling points of indian troops which were aggressed upon & blocked by the chinese & where buffer zones were created later are to be 'vacated' (if thats the correct term to use). the indian troops had patrolled to some of these points to verify the disengagement & for resumption of usual patrolling, while yes the troop buildup remains & remains on high alert on both sides.

 

[Emperor]

Interesting. So they do fear India at some level then. Because most don't believe it.

All due to American help and peace dividend for over half a century. The 100 yr marathon by Michael Pilsbury should be on your reading list.

Peace ... is the key to success and this we all Indian need to understand, don't start blaming anyone especially if western media target Indian Entrepreneurs.

if BIG entrepreneurs stop investing in India ... there will be no harm to those Indian entrepreneurs, they will sell all of their Indian investment and move to any other country to live PEACEFUL life, it's Indian who will be at receiving end, imagine if those investment purchase by western tycoons like Musk ...

 

[rsaeon]

What stops us making these screws eventually ourselves?

Nobody wants to make it. Manufacturing isn't glamorous or lucrative to anyone with capital. They want faster, bigger gains. Just look how people react to anyone who chooses a civil engineering education. We just don't have the "we can do this ourselves" mindset. What we do is take something and build-up or build-sideways with it.

It's how we have always been, and it's a leftover from the British era, where you take something that someone else made and add your flair to it and call it your own.

Manufacturing with raw materials is an industry that has completely missed us, because we all jumped to assembling, because that's where the money is.

I honestly don't see it changing in our lifetime. It's really saddening. Okay, now I've made myself sad.

But! There is hope, we can and do manufacture pre-packaged foods. From scratch! Put aside that it exists because it's a B2C market and not B2B, but the framework is well-known, it exists. We have the expertise, the machinery, the logistics. What we need is people who are willing to manufacture screws.

And this is happening, I see glimpses of it with everyday items. Not screws, but there's care and foresight being applied iteratively to latter batches of things that are mass produced.

Take a look at the boring unmolded two pin plug, the plastic halves never mated before, they were only held in place by a single screw. Now they click shut together, they're robust, some have grab features, some have internal wiring features, some even have strain relief. Some even are translucent to help detect faults. An amalgamation of improvements that make them far superior than what we had 5 years ago but at the same time, each improvement is instantly recognizable as being part of something else that was brought into this.

So maybe there's hope. Maybe things will fall into place with people who are able to see how to make things better, not just more profitable. I feel better now.

 

[6pack]

And they know we are no pushover if push comes to shove.
They know we will fight back physically, not financially. There's more ways to fight.

Ever heard of the nuclear deal we got with the Americans?
So, why didn't we get that deal 25 years back? Why now? After the fire has been put out, the americans are giving us coals. American nuclear industry has all but vanished completely in USA. Not one new nuclear plant is coming up. The old workforce all retired. Companies like Westinghouse almost shuttered. I don't know what good that deal will do us.

What was that line Strobe Talbot said after we conducted the '98 tests

India is in the doghouse. They want into the big house. We're trying to find them a halfway house
We are still in the dog house. We just bark more now because the others are taking notice of us.

You already said it is Indian businessmen that will hurt. They are not India.
Of course they are not India. They were the ones who stopped all manufacturing when they saw it was pointless doing it here when the govt didn't give them support. All of the large companies shut their operations here decades back. Most of them import from China at large volumes and sell it here. Even the govt knows that. Make in India was the govt trying to force them to bring back the manufacturing but without doing anything concrete in that direction. We never saw the govt say they will give out tax cuts or any freebies like China have we? We still charge extra for power and water. Plus import duties, shipping costs, etc. In another post I said we used to make everything here first and you ignored it. I will say it again. We used to make everything here first but with an ignorant govt at top, even the businessmen lost all hope. Someone can only do so much as long as they get the required support from the govt. Here successive govts tried their hardest to make everyone look like thieves and tax them as much as possible. The entire country is made of thieves to the Indian govt. We are all trying to steal from them 24/7/365. They don't look at us like citizens. We are just vote bank during elections or an ATM machine at other times.
If you think Indian businessmen will not leave India, think again. Lot of these houses are setting up manufacturing plants in African nations. Africa is the next big hub for made in India goods. If they get support from African countries (if those countries get some smart far thinking people in govt), these very own Indian businessmen will jump to African countries and import stuff from there to India. As it is many of them live in Europe, UK or USA now and very few live here. Only the old timers live here and many of them are dying due to old age. I doubt their family will stay here for long.

Do you think China are dumb enough to do that
China can twist our arms. What's stopping them from putting export curbs on raw materials to India? All our raw materials come from china. From plastic pellets to medicines. We probably give China in excess of 200 billion in trade every year. They are just waiting for some other nation to take India's place. They don't play by our rules. To them treaties means just another document to make India stop whining. Look at how they behave. As soon as a treaty is signed, they publicly announce that some Indian states are part of China. And what do we do? We send a strong message. Yeah, like China is going to read that message. Pfft.

I honestly don't see it changing in our lifetime. It's really saddening. Okay, now I've made myself sad.

But! There is hope, we can and do manufacture pre-packaged foods. From scratch! Put aside that it exists because it's a B2C market and not B2B, but the framework is well-known, it exists. We have the expertise, the machinery, the logistics. What we need is people who are willing to manufacture screws.

And this is happening, I see glimpses of it with everyday items. Not screws, but there's care and foresight being applied iteratively to latter batches of things that are mass produced.

Take a look at the boring unmolded two pin plug, the plastic halves never mated before, they were only held in place by a single screw. Now they click shut together, they're robust, some have grab features, some have internal wiring features, some even have strain relief. Some even are translucent to help detect faults. An amalgamation of improvements that make them far superior than what we had 5 years ago but at the same time, each improvement is instantly recognizable as being part of something else that was brought into this.

Sorry to sadden you a bit more. Those plastic molds, all are being designed in China now on advanced CNC machines so they have better finish and fit together well. We buy plastic molding machines from China. They buy high end machines from Germany and Japan and mass copy it and sell it to us after slapping their names on it.

That care and foresight is all Chinese made. We import our two pin and sockets from China. Even the transformers outside our homes are made in China. Even the wires. Routers, telecom equipment, tools, motors, cement, toys, drones, pen, pencils, nail cutters, screws, chemicals, brushes etc.
Some small companies still exist and you can make out the difference in quality with just one glance. Our made in India plastic plugs have sharp edges which can scratch fingers. The extra mold bits are not removed. We can see made in India welded stuff with the welded part not ground down or polished down. Our workers are a lazy bunch. Just look at train compartments and the welding on them. You can see shoddy jobs here and there. If you touch the seat edges, you can feel sharp cut corners. Same for mdf furniture etc. All the furniture has sharp edges like razor blades. We wallow in mediocrity. Someone here said this months/years back and it still stuck with me. We are happy doing a mediocre job and expect patting on the back. You can see this in all our industries.

We have factories making food, but everything inside the factory is Chinese made. From packaging machines to even the plastic for plastic wrappers. What we still have left is agriculture and we are not even good in that. Just look at vegetables grown in other countries. All of them are huge. Indian ones are disfigured and small and even potatoes/onions are mostly rotten in middle. Only the price of goods is going up, not the quality. We never cared for quality here.

 

[rsaeon]

You're point out the worst of Indian manufacturing — which is the reality and the majority — but there are sparks of innovation that stand out.

Take a look here, this is Anchor's manufacturing five years ago:

(I spend a lot of my time watching factory videos)

Also, most of what you said might have been true 15 years ago, but with a simple reverse image search of indian made products, you'll see that you can't buy them anywhere except in India. China will white label a product for you but they will never exclusively manufacture commodity products for a single client or brand, they'll offer the same thing to others.

Slightly OT:

I got this yesterday: https://www.nurepublic.co/products/blaze-fusion-q-100w for Rs 550 and look what I found:



I've ordered the Deodap one to confirm whether anything's different, it'll arrive in a few days.

Back on topic:

We have a prototyping center here for startups and really anyone else to bring ideas into reality, and some of the machines are they have aren't from China.

Like the Zund: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tworks+zund

 

[6pack]

We have a prototyping center here for startups and really anyone else to bring ideas into reality, and some of the machines are they have aren't from China.

Like the Zund: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tworks+zund

Not from China but from Germany or some EU country. My point is we don't do such advanced machinery here. We just take the shortcut method of getting licensing from foreign brands and feel proud of it. We won't go the extra mile to learn how something is made and make it here. We even can't bother to finish or detail our own made in India products properly. look at all the reliance pillows or blankets. You can see stitching coming out here and there. The blankets have microfiber fluff coming out from it and causing pollution in house. You can go to any iron grill maker and make grills for your house and the product will start rusting in 2-3 years. No one primes anything here. They just slap some paint on it and call it a day. No anti-rust preventive paint. Just normal water based acrylic paint is used on iron. I can point out a lot more but I'll be typing here the entire night. You can just see how people work here and come to your own conclusion how well we work. Then we complain why no one wants to buy our stuff.

 

[t3chg33k]

Not from China but from Germany or some EU country. My point is we don't do such advanced machinery here. We just take the shortcut method of getting licensing from foreign brands and feel proud of it. We won't go the extra mile to learn how something is made and make it here. We even can't bother to finish or detail our own made in India products properly. look at all the reliance pillows or blankets. You can see stitching coming out here and there. The blankets have microfiber fluff coming out from it and causing pollution in house. You can go to any iron grill maker and make grills for your house and the product will start rusting in 2-3 years. No one primes anything here. They just slap some paint on it and call it a day. No anti-rust preventive paint. Just normal water based acrylic paint is used on iron. I can point out a lot more but I'll be typing here the entire night. You can just see how people work here and come to your own conclusion how well we work. Then we complain why no one wants to buy our stuff.

The Indian market is not particularly discerning in terms of quality. Most look at the upfront price instead of the lifetime price. Manufacturing will cater to the lowest denomination that brings in volume. Any additional quality costs more.

I have a relative in Japan and have been getting a lot of things made in Japan. Over there, basically no one will purchase items if it doesn't list all details and meet a quality threshold. Also, most of the reputed firms in a category only produce that category of items and nothing else, to focus on quality. The market supply meets the demand.

The Indian setup is slowly becoming more and more like the South Korean one with its chaebols, where the domestic market is taken for granted because of lack of options. It is only when you are serious about exporting and earning foreign exchange that the mindset changes.