India vs Pakistan and China

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Params7

Forerunner
In youtube, was looking at some India-Pak war videos, and the comments section is always full of nationalistic spouts between the people of the two countries. While, Indians always had that "We won the war every single time we fought, Pakis!", Pakis were with, "If India tries to defeat Pakistan" (as in invade their country, nuke them etc) "China from the back is going to erase you in a curb stomp".

And if you look at the events which happened in the past (China almost entering the India-Pak war), its very possible. Everybody knows China helped Paki go Nuclear. So if such a war were to happen, what are India's chances of surviving or winning it? Have we got allies like Paki has China?
 
If China jumps into a War with India during an Indo-Pak War, expect another country to step in to Aid us too. Russia maybe? :P.
 
We're screwed. I swear to god we're screwed.

Pakis

Chinamen

Naxalites

Maoists(Biggest threat at the moment)

LTTE

Our Government

How we're surviving and how our economy's actually growing is beyond me.

Our country's like a jugger on a tightrope. Small vibration=dead juggler.
 
No one will help us. We can make the war last for at least 2 months. Hope to cause enough damage to china to take them back quiet a few years. In wartime, our biggest asset will be our population. Forced conscription will be a must if we are to survive.

Although we could choose to go nuclear but that would ensure our destruction as well. Our best bet is to hang on and hope the UN or the US mediate.

China has got evil designs. The JF-17 deal, the gwadar port, the purchase of f-7 jets by sri lanka and Bangladesh all serve to marginalise India.

At the moment, we enjon naval and some form of aerial superiority over both the chinese and the Pakistanis. In fact, in a war with Pakistan we would win in around 2 weeks. Against China, we have the advantage of terrain on our side. Chinese airfields located along lhasa are at a high altitude where rareified air decreases engine and armament efficiency while our airstrips are located in the planes. The only worthwhile jet located at lhasa is the J-8 which is a form of mig-21 clone. all the chinese super-jets (J-10, Su-30 MKK are located along the straits of taiwan), so limited aerial superiority can be achieved in both the eastern as well as western sectors (PAF have no BVR missiles).

Chinese artillery is better than Indian artillery but our mountain divisions are better trained and equipped compared to the Chinese. It will be a stalemate if both of them attack us.

An interesting point is that if the IAF had been used in the 1962 war, we would have won that war too. Nehru grossly overestimated chink capability and thus we were screwed. I jsut hope we learnt from our past mistakes.

However, these scenarios are highly unlikely. : )
 
/\/\ good points but mind you if china goes into fullscale war with us, things might not seem so good, especially if they get their J-10 and MKK regiments in the conflict. also mind you, if they get their naval assets near the bay of bengal we would be in deep trouble as the Eastern Naval Command is not as well equipped as the Western Naval Command. Also Chinese nuke subs could be quite a pain in the ass, and their new destroyers are quite a handful, especially to the ageing Kashin II class destroyers based at Vizag

mind you though, the amreekees would never allow China to have a fullscale war with us, even if they dont enter a conflict, they will probably base one of the CBG's near the Arabian sea or bay of Bengal as "deterrent"
 
I doubt that the PLAN has the capability to conduct ops so far out of the south china sea. The nuke subs could prove to be a handful though. The naval engagements in an indo-pak-china scenario would occur along karachi and gwadar in my opinion. Simply because neither can we fight in the south china sea, and neither can china put up anything worthwhile in the indian ocean.

MKK's, are a downgraded version of the SU-30 MKI's that we possess. Even then, the PLAAF MKK's outnumber our MKI's by at least 2.5-1 . Nothing much is known about the J-10 except that it has reportedly beaten the MKK hands down.

The Americans will hardly be interested in protecting us. They will probably put in a CBG near the arabian ocean but that will be only to ensure that the trade through the straits of malacca is uninterrupted.

Come 2015 and we can hope to actually beat these guys :D MRCA's, the second aircraft carrier, the ATV, the Akula II lease, LCA all of these should be enough to give us a bit more of breathing space. Just hope our babus don't hold us back in their pacifistic stupidity.
 
Its a complicated scenario but let me explain.. forget about the indo-pak war..they'll keep flashing in the pans now and then... but China cannot afford to attack India..Todays world is very different from the world fifty years back..today, global organizations have more influence than a political power...

In a globalized business world, the national borders are not meant to be there for averting war but more for averting illegal immigration.. the world is soon going to turn into one big intercontinental business country...

China cannot afford to wage war and create a situation where they'll lose billions by affecting trade with india..think about all the money china is making even when ppl buy chinese stuff from cheap radios for 50 bucks off the road to expensive wall mounted plasma tvs..the works!! there is no product today in the market which is not rivaled by a cheaper chinese copy which serves the same purpose and costs a fraction. Naturally ppl tend to go for it. They have even started making ganesha idols for ganesh chaturthi etc. So you can understand the kind of money they'll lose if they wage war on us. This is a billion ppl market..

Suppose even then china goes to war with india and nukes a few indian cities. India wud then surely retaliate and in turn nuke the most strategic chinese locations. Now the biggest electronic giants of the world have a base in every nook n corner of resource rich chinese cities... If india nukes chinese cities, they loose their business..and that brings United States of America into the equation. Now we all know the US is mostly earning its biggest chunk from these multi billion dollar businesses tht have sprouted around the globe..

Do you think, US can afford to loose the big bucks because of two warring nations jeopardizing its economic setup?? NO WAY!!!

China will in turn have to listen to the US before it takes any drastic step, because they(US) are bringing huge amounts of foreign direct investment into their country. And thts a lot of money..Can they afford to loose it..NO WAY!!

So the moral of the story is..WAR IS OUT....ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY..HONEY!!! ;)
 
^^ w0rd....he beat me to it. No two big(read powerful) nations can afford going to war. The armoury doesnt matter, its always the trade which takes over.

Pakistan is built on principle of going in opposite direction of India, so nothing can be done in that regard :(

One after another....some other a**hole will take over the country...and will do anything to stay in power. As of nukes, pakis will be first to use it in case of war, as they got nothing to loose anyway. Though they can be wiped out within a week, but not without doing considerable damage to us.

China is much smarter than pakistan. They help pakis only coz they got business to do. they dont help them for free.
 
l33t_5n1p3r_max said:
MKK's, are a downgraded version of the SU-30 MKI's that we possess. Even then, the PLAAF MKK's outnumber our MKI's by at least 2.5-1 . Nothing much is known about the J-10 except that it has reportedly beaten the MKK hands down.

Come 2015 and we can hope to actually beat these guys :D MRCA's, the second aircraft carrier, the ATV, the Akula II lease, LCA all of these should be enough to give us a bit more of breathing space. Just hope our babus don't hold us back in their pacifistic stupidity.
Click to expand...

we have 42 MKI's currently, the Chinese MKK + J-11 (Chinese Su-27) + PLAN MK2 count comes up to 300 IIRC.

yes come 2015 we will have 2 Akulas, but the word is the PLAN is launching newer SSN's later this year aswell.

and yes, just pray the babu's dont delay the MRCA deal, induction is supposed to take around 8 years, further delay would just be terrible.
 
Sometime in the future, I hope governments turn to virtual warfare like we seen in the Battlefield series... no lives lost, just DAYS of war on a server with over a 1000 soldiers lol. I wouldn't mind signing up for the army then ;)
 
The chances of a full scale india china war happening today are remote.Even if we have the capablity to launch only a couple of dozen nuclear armed missiles towards china ,they will be discouraged because they unlike pakistan have a lot to loose. They won't attack india for the same reason india won't attack pakistan.There is simply too much to loose in a war.they will instead do everything in their power to diplomatically force india to abandon the war with pakistan. besides if china engages in a war with india expect the US to step in sooner rather than later.Not because they love india but because they know that india is one of the few countries in the region that can counter china and if india goes then there would be no stopping china.Also US has vital business interests in both countries and so it would give china an ultimatum to either stop war with india or risk opening of a second front and taiwan's independence.

besdies the chinese navy and air force although enjoy a numeric strenght vis-a-vis india, they lack technological edge.Infact many of their subs are obsolete and no good. They still don;t have a carrier fleet and without it their entire navy will be sitting ducks for the indian air force if they enter indian ocean.besides during a war with china america will be more than willing to offer us real time intelligence about the movements of chinese ships and advanced amraam missiles to shoot down their airplanes from adistance.

Besides there is one missile the indians have that the chinese will find too hot to handle:-

Brahmos.jpg


they won't even see it coming:D:D

The same goes for their air force:- although they have a lotta planes most of them are located close to taiwan and anyway they lack any modern EW suite or good avionics packages making them sitting ducks for india's BVR missiles. All this would mean that they will struggle to beat india and the war will simply drag on.And the more it drags on the more china will loose economically and the more its intl. reputation will be hurt.That's not something they want.

Ofcourse the chinese have been building roads and railways into tibet(along with many airstrips there) from mainland that runs close to india's border .this will mean that they will get the upper hand in land battles with india from now on and during the early stages itself, they will rapidly advance to cut off india's north east from the rest of the country.But the problem still remains that without an effective air cover they will still be easy targets for the indian air force.As the war drags on they will loose any element of surprise they had early on and would start loosing their grip on all territories they intially managed to capture.Besides like i said america will play the same game it played in world war 2.Arm india effectively so that it is able and willing to take on the advancing chinese military and destroy them.After all a masively weakened chinese military will be in america's interst and will greatly aid washington's goal of forcing a quick ceasefire.

So the bottom line is unless we haven't yet deployed any nuclear armed missiles against china(that remains the big question!!) it won't even consider a war wiuth india.Because it will be a loose loose situation for them!! But if a war does take place, we have to be careful about our internal enemies----the naxals,the commies(CPI and CPM) and the terrorists.Unless we move quickly to liquidate them all,we may have trouble on our hands.
 
So in all probrablity we won't see an india china war anytime soon except maybe in a videogame.This will remain the case only as long as we won't ignore our armed forces or defence needs.If we don't massively increase our spending on defence or choose not to deploy nukes against china in relatively lare nos. we would again find ourselves in deep shit just like we did during the 62 war.Someone here rightly said that if we deployed our air force in that war with china ,the outcome of that war would have been much different.Finally pray to god that india doesn't elect another boneheaded leader.
 
^ haha. good points arrow . I think for any decisive victory, naval supremacy is must have against another nation, unless one of them is not touching sea at all.

Initial damage can be done by early strikes by AirForce and Missiles. However in long run to make the shores completely inaccessible, navy presence is needed in waters which neither china nor india have against one another. Doesnt matter how big is a fleet. India can not afford to fight in yellow sea, and china cant rule the bay of bengal.

So it comes down to Tibet. As war pulls longer it will get difficult for china to maintain and get supplies to the border. Even chamcha pakistan cant help them in this regard. So no matter how big and mighty they are, they'll loose for sure. It could have been same in '62 as well :P
 
Indians on indian forums will say india is superior, paks on paki forums will say pakistan is superior and chinese on chinese forums will say china is superior.

:)
 
read the whole thread.... pakistanis live in the matrix, not in the real world :P

China is ofcourse superior to india in terms of military might. most people here have rational view of how things really are
 
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