How USA is going to recover skyrocketing cost of these war-machines is what other countries might be looking at.
Japan offers India to join Next-Gen Fighter jet Project.
- Thread starter solo_wing
- Start date
I fail to figure out this everytime.
They have largest Naval fleet too. Plus air bases .
This big machines and keeping the arms and space race was one major reason why even the Mighty Soviet collapsed but these Americans just keep going.
Everything have repercussions. USA's primary export was US Dollars, now fundamentals are inevitably shifting, reason behind busybody Trump's antics. They used warmachines to enforce US$ as world currency, now that will be challenged.
Problem with such systems and countries is that they will not like power fleeting out through their fists, so will resort to war, exploiting war as a means to push others down when USA itself is not progressing ahead.
New Fighter Jet Programme's "Execution Model" Approved By Defence Minister
Defence Minister Rajnath Singh has approved the "execution model" to implement a mega project to indigenously develop a fifth generation deep penetration advanced medium combat aircraft for the Indian Air force India.
www.ndtv.com
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Quasar
When your currency is a reserve currency you have a license to print. Within reason. So the US defense budget dwarfs the defense budgets of the next ten countries combined.
But even that wasn't enough. The F35 development costs were shared among 30 odd countries.
The dollar was set to become a world currency already by the end of WW2 as the US at the time could back the $ globally as it had acquired 45,000 tons of gold. From there on the $ gained momentum and the rest as they say was history.
For reference China today only has 2,000 tons and India around 650 tons.
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Quasar
It's a good development but don't hold your breath. These platforms are very difficult to build. Subject to any manner of cost overruns not to mention politics.
Arms acquisition and development is one of the most frustrating topics I've seen. Excruciating.
This is not just one project since Operation Sindoor.
I have come across news where many indigenous defence projects are being given go ahead.
That's the confidence you want to see in your country. Working on its own projects instead of just plainly acquiring.
Beside the trouble of having to deal with delays and arm-twisting etc.
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Quasar
There are certainly success stories. Artillery is a good example. But here we are talking of jets that too advanced. We don’t have the tech in-house and are dependent on foreign know how.
Just saying tracking such a topic going by past experience is asking for a one way trip to a mental asylum.
Stop, start, stop, start, 180, try again. Look at the Australian drama to acquire and build submarines. Look at our own past record for acquiring aircraft. There is no logic or reason.
It is more exciting and healthier to watch grass grow or paint dry.
I am not expecting a highly advanced F-35/F-22 level jet here . It is going to be a long process but about time we go ahead with this project.
I think we should also do a joint project with other country too beside going ahead with this too. If Japan, Uk, and Italy or Maybe with Russia we are getting know how and better deal.
As far as Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) is concerned, what India lack is enough capable power train, aka jet engine. We had to depend on foreign countries to get jet engines.
Reason why there is massive public support to develop Kaveri engine further, highly emerging public interest there now:
www.indiatoday.in
m.rediff.com
Reason why there is massive public support to develop Kaveri engine further, highly emerging public interest there now:
Kaveri Engine revival: The hashtag that took over Twitter
On May 26, 2025, the hashtag #FundKaveriEngine took over X as citizens, defence experts, and aviation enthusiasts united to urge the Indian government to invest in the indigenous jet engine project.
Kaveri engine trials in Russia for Indian combat UAV
India's premier defence research agency Defence Research and Development Organisation is carrying out trials of the indigenously developed Kaveri jet engine in Russia and is
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Kevin Lane
Galvanizer
Yes, Our first priority right now must be Kaveri!
Coming back to partnerships, I guess we should join both Su57 and GCAP if we could. What we could learn would be simply unbelievable. It would give us redundancy in case of partner fidelity.
By 7th Gen we may be able to do it independently.
P.S. My sense is we could also have offer for Rafale. Coming geopolitical, geoeconomical scenario will give us a problem of options aplenty.
Coming back to partnerships, I guess we should join both Su57 and GCAP if we could. What we could learn would be simply unbelievable. It would give us redundancy in case of partner fidelity.
By 7th Gen we may be able to do it independently.
P.S. My sense is we could also have offer for Rafale. Coming geopolitical, geoeconomical scenario will give us a problem of options aplenty.
I have a feeling Rafale may have not performed well during this conflict and was shot down.
Most people may be saying I am just talking foreign or Pakistan narrative but I see some truth in it also specially with France Insider also confirming " atleast one is shot down"
Chinese are saying its JF-10 that shot it and Pakistan is saying its Jf-17( Jointly develop with China by Pakis) so even they are playing with us.
Beside France is playing game too... They first said we will give Source code now saying no to that too.
Everyone is playing their games. Might as well just develop one of our own and kick them out.
I think govt. should start 2 projects one is self made AMCA and one jointly develop with Japan or Russia.
kartikoli
Innovator
Make much more sense, if we depend on others then be ready for outdated weapons where as they might look good on paper but will face huge problems when met against next gen.
The thing is depending on others mean you will need their source code .
Beside the other issue which is delivery on time and conditions like How USA has put conditions on Pakistan on use of F-16( only for defence purpose and not attacking etc)
Source code allows you be more flexible with different kind of missiles you can carry. But the reason why other countries dont want to give that easily is one...it allows them to sell you their own specific missile and make money and on top Source code is like giving access to the brain network of the Fighter jet.
The reason why India should have 2 projects is ...India can now afford it firstly . If we can spend 36000 crore on freebies during election we can definitely go ahead with 15000 crore on our own project.
Beside if AMCA is decent enough it should be able to recover the cost by being sold to other smaller nations like Armenia ,Vietnam , etc.
Now we could also learn a thing or two from working with Japan or Russia.
Russia has expertise in making some of the most deadliest fighter jets in the world. Recent times their weapons RnD has not been appropriate but they are still major competitor to USA . That says enough.
Japan is brilliant too...look at How they modify USA f-16 into F-2 into a beast.
Lucky for India that we have good understanding with many countries unlike Pakistan which is now 80% dependent on Chinese Weapons.
Pakistan is becoming a Vassal state of China.
btw interesting talk
That may never change in India. They will always go for their cut in one way or the other.
All we can hope is ..it is least damaging to the country.
Remember like giving a project to manufacture Rafale to Chota Ambani's Reliance whose company was never involved in any kind of fighter jet manufacture before.
Congress was even worse they rejected many indigenous project because they took their cut directly from foreign companies or players.
BJP is brining it here but will make sure they get cut too.
Yeh sab Ustaad hai chori mein....bas thoda idhar udhar ka difference hai.
India don't have enemies outside our geopolitical region requiring international warfare. Drones, powerful precise missiles, etc. will cover our immediate requirements.
So, mostly India will pitch existing fighter planes, Tejas, AMCA project, etc. as chips to counter bargain with USA, Russia (we are mostly moving away from them), other countries.
We will purchase fighter jets, but will not budge much unlike earlier.
So, mostly India will pitch existing fighter planes, Tejas, AMCA project, etc. as chips to counter bargain with USA, Russia (we are mostly moving away from them), other countries.
We will purchase fighter jets, but will not budge much unlike earlier.
You have to see how your enemy is in arms race.
China is competing with USA and Russia too( to some extent in hidden way).
So when China is acquiring all latest weaponary and involved in mega arms race with USA and Russia.
The whole game becomes much more complex for India.
Because then in a way India also gets dragged in this mega arm race because of China's need to be competing with USA/Russia.
China's defence budget is 600Billion.
Hamara I think about 100 Billion.
Just look at the difference.
On top China passes these advantages to our Bhikmanga terrorist neighbour.
We are surrounded by enemies with Nuclear weapons too.
First after independence ..it was one front war for us
( Pakistan)..then very soon 2 front war with China war.
Today India is facing 3 front war possibility because Bangladesh is also behaving hostile.( Most people will dismiss it completely but when a country is openly inviting your enemy the Chinese to come and establish themselves there) the things gets very serious.
USA want St. Martin Island as a submarine port and anchor in South Asia against China. Naturally, Indian is not going to like it. https://www.telegraphindia.com/worl...s-cites-plot-to-sell-country-prnt/cid/2102259
Not at all dismissing the threat there, however the fact remains that India's enemies are it's immediate neighbors only.
BTW, There was a contention about utility of drones in war on TE by someone, Russia proved how drones redefine warfare in this age:
Fibre optic drones: The terrifying new weapon changing the war in Ukraine
The BBC reports from Donetsk where swarms of fibre optic drones give Russia the edge as Ukraine defends towns behind the front line.
www.bbc.com