Like Chinese goods avoid MRCP/MRCS specialists

red dragon

red dragon

Justiceforall
Innovator
This is not to make fun of the Chinese/ British.
A lot of doctors from India after MBBS go to UK and come back in 3-5 years with a MRCP/ MRCS after their names, and start practicing as specialists.
May be 50 years back, they could have considered themselves as specialists as India had no proper post graduation training available at that time.
But now 99 percent of these doctors are absolutely bottom of the barrel stuff from government medical colleges of India who couldn't get through the tough MD/ MS entrances and took the easy way out.
These morons have no proper PG training, they just cleared 2 MBBS level MCQs of Medicine/ Surgery and 3 pre clinical subjects ( anatomy/ physiology/ biochemistry) and a juvenile practical examination ( the main focus of which is basically communication skill in English!!)
They are kicked out of NHS ( the most primitive of healthcare system in the Entire Europe) as they couldn't maintain that minimal level of knowledge and professional skills ( most NHS trust hospitals are like cleaner version of India's Primary health care centres with 10-20 medicines in total for everything)
I'm bringing it up now because 8 such MRCPs from India and Bangladesh were working in some small private clinics in Czechia for last 10 months.
They are all kicked out and deported yesterday.
And I've seen at least 50 prescriptions of such specialists in last 5-6 months from India.
Proper MD/DMs in India tried to raise their voice in past, but India being India NOTHING has been done in private sectors ( government hospitals got rid of these "specialists" long ago to avoid lawsuits) and corporate hospitals have become heaven for these "specialists" as they are basically cheap labour, who can bill like a normal MD/DM/DNB/FNB.
So next time you need to see a doctor, visit your humble local GP first ( that's how it works in developed country) if he/ she refers to you to someone, before seeing that specialist, please make sure of his credentials and avoid these MRCPs at all cost ( no matter what your non medical mama/ mami/ chacha/ chachi says)
It's your ( or someone you care for health) health, many mistakes are avoidable.
Don't get fooled by the "phorein" specialist...

Your friendly "phoreiner" doctor who is proud to have completed his entire medical education from India and eligible to practice anywhere in the world.
 
Hey phoreiner doc, thanks for all this info.
I appreciate your effort typing this important info, though I've never seen these MRCP/MRCS doctors but this is some vital info everyone must be aware of.

@ offtopic but I can't resist myself posting this news, seems like this doc is also one of them lol -

'Aladdin's lamp' for $41,600
 
Yes, it has become a global joke. This breed of idiots will steal your papers, make absurd single case report and publish those jokes in whacky journals ( they themselves are the editors of the journals!!) and proudly present them during interviews.
I had to endure such painful interviews recently as WHO needs some field doctors.
One of these morons applied for a medical statistical analyst position who couldn't calculate mean and median from a bunch of well organized very small ( less than 100 participants) database!!
And being a special kind of asshole, I humiliated them in front of the entire panel.
These guys do not understand, WHO is not a giant corporate organization, we look for fearless thugs with some technical knowledge ( we will teach them all the tricks of epidemiology within couple of months) we need normal doctors who are connected with reality, not afraid of being chased by angry mob, who won`t hesitate to fight an attacker with a knife or shank or something.
Anyone appearing with a tie/ formal suit for an interview automatically irritates us as we don`t care about any of those things, during summer I go to HQ in shorts, flip-flops.
We do not work in air conditioned offices, we work in trenches FFS!!
 
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red dragon said:
...NHS ( the most primitive of healthcare system in the Entire Europe)..
Click to expand...
Haven't experienced practically, but from what I've heard of it, the NHS' main problem is the time people have to wait for treatment. But they do cover a lot of people and give pretty varied and exotic treatment like CBT for BPD and recently i read that someone got some very experimental treatment for tinnitus but they had to wait 3-4 months for their turn.
Overall still 100 times better than what we have in India (primitive???) and I'm not talking about the private hospitals where we spend lakhs and lakhs and get good to excellent healthcare.
 
VERY FEW NHS hospitals even have MRI machines.
A healthcare system is not usually measured by exotic treatment.
Honestly, I don't know about their ENT services, but ENT surgeons @ NHS can't do something as basic as a percutaneous tracheostomy ( they still prefer open tracheostomy for every patient)
I came across one patient recently with a bad coronary angio ( 90 percent proximal LAD with very poor health of distal circulation)
The poor man was stuck at Northern London, where those idiots did an intravenous lithotripsy ( as they thought the atheroma to have a significant calcified plaque), of course he died within next 12 hours in CCU, if you consider IVL an exotic treatment for coronary heart disease, sure...they do it all the time ( instead of normal thrombosuction and usual angioplasty, but it requires significant amount of training)
Yes, some teaching hospitals are good, but not even close to German/ Dutch Medical schools.
Even AIMS, PGI and certain medical schools in India are truly world class when it comes to medical education.
The antibiotic policy of NHS is really old and they simply hide their pneumonia deaths every single year ( told by a NHS veteran who left after 20 years)
But, this is not about NHS. I can make a separate thread on NHS comparing it to PHC ( you will be shocked to see the similarities even in photographs)
It's about doctors who can't maintain the NHS standard!!
And regarding the legendary NHS delay, do you know how many patients does a medicine resident see everyday?
It's usually less than 10 percent of what Indian residents see in a normal government medical college.
If you get tired after seeing 15 patients in a day ( and all you are doing is putting ticks and crosses in a form) no one really can save the system.
Years ago ( >10 years) BBC made some documentaries on NHS and explained why it's the absolute worst in EU, and it didn't improve one bit and got worse year after year.
St. George, possibly the biggest hospital in UK, it has a very good stroke unit.
But compared to something really world class like Cornell in NYC or Ludwig in Munich, it's really far behind.
India's NIMHANS is also a genuine world class centre for neurological diseases.
 
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Is it really fair comparing AIIMS and NIMHANS with NHS? Which is a countrywide public health system.

The specific anecdote about the ent thing was there is a special kind of hearing aid for tinnitus. It generates certain tones which mask it. Not like a regular hearing aid which just boosts gain all round. Pretty experimental stuff, since results aren't very conclusive Damn things cost in lakhs. Even in India. And the NHS actually provides those things for free. Albeit after many many months of waiting.

Almost everything in the ultra modern EU contries is top class, not just healthcare. These are prisons in norway ffs:

www.weforum.org

This Norwegian prison is the nicest in the world

Prisoners serving time at Bastoy prison in Norway are more likely to be sunning themselves on a beach or strolling through a pine forest than sitting in cramped cell. It’s no surprise then, that Bastoy has been called the world’s nicest prison.
www.weforum.org www.weforum.org
www.businessinsider.com

I toured prisons around the world — and the system that seems the most relaxed is also one that works

Prison systems look very different in Norway compared to the US. Norwegian crime rates are low and the recidivism rate is a mere 20% because their prison system actually works. I took a tour of Norwegian prisons, speaking with inmates and guards, and I learned that the US prison system is outdated.
www.businessinsider.com www.businessinsider.com

Btw, i wanted to get an MRI for some back pain i was having, nothing too serious, but just wanted to be sure about the level of damage. I was quoted 12-14k, so decided to drop the idea since it wasn't that critical.

Now in a government hospital that might have been much cheaper, but the damn process would make you want to tear your hair out and just spend the above-mentioned amount at a private center. If India's healthcare system was good enough, there wouldn't be such a huge private business would there? I'm not trying to take this topic into a comparison contest, just saying that while the NHS is far from perfect, it's better than the shit we have here. Everyone who wants assured good treatment in India pays out of pocket. You've heard the damn multi-lakh corona treatment costs.
 
Very true. Everything you said is completely logical.
But getting a MRI of LS spine done from NHS referral is equally difficult mate ( they will delay it unless the backache matches their ancient 40 point criteria and no matter how serious the pain is, they will give some useless Ibuprofen for weeks, my mom in law faced exact similar problem there, I had to call up one of my friends there to get that freaking MRI and some Lyrica. Forget MRI, even getting a non contrast CT brain from NHS trust hospital is a tedious process ( but yes, of course it's easier compared to India)
But I would wholeheartedly agree with you about the completely corrupt/ non monitored but mostly efficient ( and very expensive) private health care system in India.
 
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Indian healthcare system has all kinds of extremes. For example, of course we have the big private hospitals at one end who end up bringing shame upon their profession in some cases but for every one such doctor I feel have so many many good hard working doctors providing their awesome expertise to hundreds of patients each everyday. Situation is getting worse with each generation though IMO as the newer generation don't seem to have the same work ethics as their predecessors but I still can't fault them for that considering the pathetic working conditions and especially work-life balance they have make it a difficult job to aspire for.
 
I don't think any doctors below the age of 60 today have the scruples and ethics the old ones did. I still remember the names of some of the doctors who treated me when i was a kid, they were such gentlemen in addition to being docs. Nowadays it's one of the worst professions IMO. Doctors and teachers used to be considered sacred almost, but it's no more the same. Even the educations system in India is about big bucks.
 
Julian said:
I don't think any doctors below the age of 60 today have the scruples and ethics the old ones did. I still remember the names of some of the doctors who treated me when i was a kid, they were such gentlemen in addition to being docs. Nowadays it's one of the worst professions IMO. Doctors and teachers used to be considered sacred almost, but it's no more the same. Even the educations system in India is about big bucks.
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Not true at all. Just go to any good medical college or hospital and you will see so many young good doctors working so hard. I have been to PGI Chandigarh so many times with my relatives and most of the doctors over there were extremely polite. Even the few who weren't polite were extremely good at their job and seeing hundreds of patients a day and taking good care of them despite the unmanageable workload they have.
 
rdst_1 said:
Not true at all. Just go to any good medical college or hospital and you will see so many young good doctors working so hard. I have been to PGI Chandigarh so many times with my relatives and most of the doctors over there were extremely polite. Even the few who weren't polite were extremely good at their job and seeing hundreds of patients a day and taking good care of them despite the unmanageable workload they have.
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Why is everyone using top institutes and medical colleges to prove that the medical system is good and well? I'm totally not talking about the newly graduated doctors who are still idealistic and untainted by the need for greed.

Rather the average doctor that a person is likely to visit in daily life. Granted, was probably too sweeping in my statement, but honest, ethical doctors are a very small minority these days. And don't blame it on their working conditions. It's extreme greed, pure and simple.
 
praktikování medicíny se v dnešní době stalo mečem s dvojitým ostřím.
A good relationship of trust is mandatory between a doctor and patient. If there's no mutual trust, bad outcome is guaranteed.
I would rather prefer a rude but efficient and honest doctor over a smooth talking pimp.
If you watch closely, most honest doctors are rather harsh with family members, but polite to the patient.
 
red dragon said:
If you watch closely, most honest doctors are rather harsh with family members, but polite to the patient.
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That is so true, often regardless of their level of honesty. Why do they do that?

Speaking from my own experience with some, not all doctors, some older members in the family have difficulty expressing their questions / fears to a doctor and instead pour out their worries to family members in private and just clam up when at the doctor's. No amount of encouraging / persuading / telling them to ask the doctor themselves work due to their being set in their ways as a result of their age. Passing on the patient's questions, even verbatim, to the doctors elicits rude and harsh responses to family members thus silencing them and leaving the elderly patients to continually and silently suffer with their fears, questions that are not voiced to the "professional".

@red_dragon, the above is generic, please don't take it personally. The work you do, your posts and thoughts are very interesting, appreciated, useful and a great insight into a profession most of us ordinary people don't have the slightest clue about.
 
You want an honest answer? I will tell you why.
If you sit in a doctor's chamber for 7 days just to listen to the conversation going on, you will notice how much time is wasted on meaningless chit chat. If I ask someone about his present symptoms, if he starts from a viral fever 50 year ago, it sometimes gets to your nerve. Sure past medical history is important so is past treatment. But that shouldn't include name of doctors whom you're don't know ( where there chambers were, how good/ bad they were etc.etc.)
Given the number of patients an Indian doctors see everyday also play a major factor.
For me,I would like to use 80 percent of my time in examining the patient myself.
It's basically our lack of patience..which is often related to the load we are under.
Medicine IMHO is 50 percent knowledge ( continued medical education) 30 percent experience and 10 percent luck.
Some of us skip on that knowledge and related continued education part and try to make up for our knowledge with sweet talking etc.
As for me, if the patient can talk himself/ herself, try to minimise the conversation with the family about symptoms etc.
We are human too, we make mistakes.
 
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