Forum Feedback My Market Section Threads deleted

[XTerminator]

Hello Everyone,
Since katmandude doesnt believe in what can be called private communication, we have decided that we shall post what he has demanded in public.
After which, we shall ponder over the reasons as to why it has been rejected. Our decision will be final and binding. No more discussion will be entertained on it.

The following message was sent to you via the TechEnclave Contact Us form by katmandude.

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Please provide me with your advertising rates.

Email me on REMOVED

i am not looking for a banner ad. Once my site REMOVED is operational I ca buy banner ads. Right now I am looking to only scope the market to see what kind of products people would be interested in buying. What I am looking for is to post the items I get (right now in smaller quantities in your market section) if you think it might overshadow other peoples posts...I would like to talk about the possibility of having a seperate sub section in the Market Section for stuff not available in India (i.e. my stuff)

I'm looking for 2-3 months of using your market section. After that will migrate to my site REMOVED.

please get back to me ASAP with your proposal. Email: REMOVED

Thanks,
Tarun Mehra

PS: Content like the email id and the site name have been removed.

A brief background:
As you all know, Katmandude here created "group orders" in which he did take the order of what people want, however defeated the purpose by offering a first come first serve. Thereby, making us suspicious. Later, he posted another thread in the market section wherein he used the watermark of his site and hotlinked the images to his site. These were the reasons why his thread was "unapproved" and not "deleted". It was our fault for not notifying him via PM and we have apologised publically for it. However, sticking to the rules, he did violate them and his thread was unapproved or sent to the moderation queue.

Shortly after, he started a feedback thread --> My Market Section Threads deleted

What started off as a normal and humble thread, soon turned out to be a politically motivated thread.

Despite our moderators posting in the section that his thread was in the moderation queue and we are discussing on the future course of action, he went about creating more and more commotion by posting derogatory remarks and unwanted material. Clearly in a mind to pick a fight.

When a person registers on a site, you are asked to check one of the options in a checkbox which states some of the rules. One of the statement in there is "I have read the rules and agree to comply with them".

However, it was clearly evident from --> My Market Section Threads deleted : Post# 8 that you jumped the gun. First and foremost, you didnt wait for the moderators to give you a reply. You acted on a reply posted by a member and his opinion. Leading to unwanted flaming and unrest.

It took you about 20 minutes to figure that you had read the wrong reply. Enough time I say for you to read the rules also. However, you didnt wait for a final reply again misreading the post which clearly said that wait for the mods to reply - My Market Section Threads deleted : Post# 11

Your take on advertisement is different from ours. We donot need anyone to tell us what is advertising. We regulate TechEnclave, we have made the rules for a purpose. How you would "prefer" to advertise is not what we are concerned with.

However, some other members, pitch in with their voices. Feedback section is made for opinions. However, I think that before understanding the situation no one should really jump the gun. Half knowledge is dangerous. However, there are some who continue to blabber pointlessly without much knowledge of the thread. There are some good suggestions in there no doubt, but they are overshadowed by a few others who like to jump in at any opportunity given to sling mud on the mods.

Within an hour, there were posts from about 5 staff members, operating at various levels stressing on the fact to wait for the final word. Still, no heed to it.

An hour, how interesting, we donot offer instant support. We take time, we are all busy with different aspects of our life. We dont make money from TE. We dont "work" here full time. We have other things to take care off too. We are not businessmen. We are Tech Enthusiasts. We dont need "business sense". We spare our time to help the community.

Wait, theres more. Theres still no statement from the staff about the issue when all of a sudden, My Market Section Threads deleted : Post# 25. Katmandude "assumes" various things. Wonder what got the idea into his head. I believe he percieves us to be something like he is, overusing what can be called his "business sense".

You guys have been seeing my posts for almost a month now. You even saw me taking orders for the TY discs...no one objected or even sent me a PM. Now, all of sudden without any warnings or even a notification you just remove my thread. Communicate guys! This was highly unprofessional of you guys to just remove my threads and not even inform me about the same.

Ah, interesting, now lets just quote you from your thread: Importing Container loads from the US

Keeping in accordance with TE policies, I am not going to advertise the name of my company or try to sell you anything on this forum.

Excellent. So, well thats professionalism for you defined!!!

I was infact considering of teaming up with TE for the betterment of the tech community, but this completely unprofessional act has got me thinking otherwise.

So, you wish to team up with TE without even notifying the staff about it. Wonder how that would work out.

My Market Section Threads deleted : Post# 31
And yet again, you take a pick at the mods, after about 3 hrs of him posting in the thread. You had replied after he had posted too. Clearly, we see this as a move to either attract attention or cause unwanted trouble.

A little later:

By community, I am not referring to the TE community, I am referring to the community of Tech enthusiasts who recognize the scarcity of some really good product not available here in India. I also refer to the community of people who have been frustrated with the current scene of e-commerce sites selling tech stuff in India and being a newegg kind of experience to this community. A place where the customer come first before anything else (yes, even profit!) To be very frank I even plan to sell the stuff you get in India on my site at a later stage. My goal....simply speaking is to be the newegg of India. This is how I am trying to help the community. Cuz I belong this community too. If you have a good concept, and you can give provide customer satisfaction...the money will follow.

Now then, you speak of a newegg kind of experience to "THIS" community. Wait, theres something missing here. What are we mods here for? Did you approach us with this idea yourself? No you did not. And you accuse us of not communicating? We have to take care of the forums in our free time. One odd slip somewhere is possible. We asked you to wait for the official reason. Nope, you do just the opposite and just go on arguing pointlessly. Wait a minute. What was the main point here? You were not sent a PM or you want to advertise your business? Looks like the latter to me.

Meanwhile, we had other more pressing matters to look at than the thread alone. We were undergoing a DOS attack. A little delay will not cost you much. However, as Mask did post in the thread: My Market Section Threads deleted : Post# 45, where we clearly apologise for not sending the PM. Now, a normal member with clearly no intention of causing unrest, clearly angry at just a simple failure to notify on a thread being moved to a "moderated" status would clam down there, you clearly failed to understand.

Again, you clearly are going on about e-commerce etc. Isnt that advertising yourself? Yet again, with patience MASK did again post asking you not to jump to conclusions.

After giving you clear reasons for the same, you go about arguing about nothing. Clearly, you are not satisfied at all. However, you again misread the posts made by us, to clearly bend them to your own will and advantage.

And then comes:

I have mentioned this several times earlier too...no I am not making profit out of the items I am selling here on TE. This is how it works...at present as I am not picking up in bulk, I sell the item at cost...or even less...in the future I keep the price the same low price....however in the future as my sales pickup I will have more stuff to buy and can get it at much cheaper rates than I getting them right now. In conclusion, the price for the end customer hasn't changed, but in the long run I will start making profit.

Hmm, how very interesting, if this is not a business, I wonder what is???

Anyways, we locked the thread.
The final word by the admin was: My Market Section Threads deleted : Post# 77

With a small little part you probably missed:

However this thing cannot go on. We are discussing within staff new measures and suggestions thrown in this thread. Please do not open new threads for sale any more till such time an announcement is made.
We can allow your present threads only under following conditions(and no new threads)
1) You will remove all watermarks immediately. And no you will not use the images to be sent via pm's. Pm advertising is not allowed. Please post clean images(watermarked in your name on this forum if you want) on external image hosts.
2) Refrain from viral marketing. You have done enough and we are not allowing that any more. If we find any instance of deliberate advertising without prior permission or without purchasing an advertisement slot on TE, we will serve you a warning.

As a reply to this, you post : WTB: Taiyo Yuden DVD+R : Post# 121

Ok, so you cant reply in the thread. Its locked. But it was done for a purpose. Now you say that you cant contact us or reply to us? I wonder what we have the PM feature for. or the feedback form for?

The admins have also closed that thread, so I can't even reply to that thread. Mods/Admins if you are reading this...I have requested you before also to send me your advertising proposal and your advertising rates, but no one has got back to me with the same. You have wasted 2 whole days of mine going back and forth on your decision. Once you ban me...then you lift your ban for a few hours and then you put a ban on me again. This is getting really frustrating for me. If you want money then send me your advertising package for me to consider. You have to understand that I cannot be sitting on stock with me and you are wasting mine and other peoples time.

Excuse us, but as its mentioned before, the staff people donot have this as a business or a job. We dont get anything out of this apart from satisfaction of helping people. However, it seems that you have all the time in the world to post about your various "business ventures". Clearly, no person in his right mind, with a family to support would do this kind of think unless he is operating a business on the same lines.

Sorry if you think that we are money hungry freaks. We are not. You maybe able to buy yourself some time and space using your money elsewhere. You cannot buy us. We are not deperate for advertisements. if you want to advertise with us, you contact us.

I know you have allowed me to finish my current sales. But please get this....I am not here to make a quick buck and get out. My goals are long term. The sale is not the big deal for me (I'm not even making any money out of it!). My TY Discs can sell anywhere and don't necessary need to sell on Tech Enclave. i don't wish to take on your liberty to allow me to complete my present sales, if I don't see any long term relationship to it.

Wait a minute, if we have allowed you to finish your current sales, and you are accusing us of putting a sale ban on you and you are not out here to make a quick buck out of it and get out, you are here for long term? If your goals are long term as you mention, and it isnt a big deal for you, why make the others suffer?

You claim that you are here to do some community service by helping Tech Enthusiasts out, but the statements below clearly oppose it.

Everyone else on the order list.....I'm sorry for putting your orders on hold. But please try to understand the situation I am in. This behavior of banning me, lifting my ban off, and then again banning me is really frustrating.

Wow, you were banned and then unbanned and then again banned? Excellent. So now the "customer" who holds the importance is not important anymore??

Oh yeah and about removing my logo watermark on the images in my market threads.....I don't have the time to keep removing each one them. It would be easier for you to just go ahead and delete the threads.

Excellent, you have all the time in the world to post endlessly about how we are ruining your sale and your business and other community service crap. However, you cannot take the effort to undo whats wrong? Clearly, you lack something called common sense. Its hard for you to understand the rules? Its hard for you to comprehend them? So, you want us to remove your sales? On one hand you are ready to replace the watermarks, elsewhere you post you just dont have the time?

 

[XTerminator]

A few pointers:

We always take time out for listening to comments and suggestions. "Do you think other sites staff would even take time out to have their feedback threads running into pages. We aint n00bs in the area of forums, we have been doing this for quite a long time." We got enough knowledge about how to run them. However, we do take suggestions right? This doesnt imply that we get to hear every damn lame comment passed on to us. We do bear with it. Why? coz we are different. We like to hear ppl out. View things from their angle.

However, some members just simply ignore this and take advantage. By the way, as we are at this, we should let you all know that we can monitor reps and the comments left. We are sure the people we are talking about know exactly whats wrong. Come out in the public and say what you want. We hear you out right?

As for those who think about supporting others with comments like "never advertise", we need you to rethink what you are implying there. Either you want to be here or you don’t. Either you support us or you don’t. Please clarify your stance.

And we will entertain PMs only by the concerned persons in reply to the above statements. All others will be disregarded.

There are some who think that we are kids, with no knowledge of how to run a site. Let us give you this information.

We have been approached many times now, in the past, with offers of help from other members who want to make a "newegg" of India. And let me tell you, we also got offered money for the same. And talking of high rates, excuse me, but go check out sites with such traffic as we do. We have just the right rates. And, to mention this, we shall not take any names, however, let us make this very clear. TE has been run by us as far as funding is concerned and we have contributed for it out of our own pockets. Yet, not looked at even taking back the same amount from what TE has gotten back using advertisements. We put the same back into TE.

What you "business minded" people would think is money money money and how to earn it. However, we "Tech Enthusiasts" as you can call us, are the true tech enthusiasts. What makes you think that we wouldnt like to earn money just like the dream of any of the "kids" that you mistake us for?? Excuse me, but we are much more mature than you think. We think of the community, we dont stand to gain anything out of this but exposure and a few friends who are like minded.

Someone said..

"That is exactly the issue - they want to make money, but don't have the balls to accept it."



Oh if we wanted to make money we could have sold the site when we had the offer. Not once but many times have we been approached. The money that was involved was much bigger than what TE will make probably in 5 years or more.

And to think we could have got rid of the headache that TE has become thanks to such members who post crap at every opportunity and project that they are self righteous.

The advertisers index is not there to make money. It is there to discourage others from free advertising. Still if you are adamant then you can very well go for it. Its very low as compared to other sites of comparable traffic.

You want us to be your free testbed. You justify it by using terms like community service. You try to turn the members against us. You talk of being professional. Yet you go around posting this..

"Screw TE and their dumb policies"

You have tall claims of 7 figure investment yet you cannot pay a 4 figure sum as advertising cost. You sir have a great business sense to be able to manipulate us into free advertising. That wont work

And then there are members who see this as everybody's benefit.

"Awesome stuff man, we are all backing you and seriously hope you return to TE for everybody's benefit!"

Is this all you care about. You want to be benefited personally, you justify it in the name of everybody's benefit. You try to arm twist us so that you can get what you want. You could have very well done it the other way round. You could have asked the dealer to got for advertising. I dont think anyone of you would have had any problems paying 20 rupees instead of 19 for a Taiyo-Yuden. Do you ever think pro-TE. Or you just want to undermine it.

You charge us of making money. Tell me what have you individually done for running TE. What monetary contribution have you ever made here. Lets for an instance say that we are making some meager amount of money. Wont that be justified considering the time we have to take out for TE. For you its a leisure, you can choose not to come here, you can choose to read whatever topics you want and leave. We have to be here everyday and read all that is being posted here. The admins have to take out more time and work on the forums. Why should they not do some freelance work where they are getting paid instead of wasting time here. You people talk as if we are milking you day and night while sitting comfortably on our asses at our multi core workstations paid for by the funds of TE. The funds to which all of you are contributing your hard earned money.

If this was for community service and everybody's benefit then there was no need for viral advertising. He could have just posted it as a simple GO and sold it to the community, everyone knows how dvds look like there was no need for pictures too. Now he will justify that he should get some benefit out of his community service. Contradictory!!

Someone else said.. "never ever go for ADs"

He as I remember is another member who wanted to make a "newegg of India". What is with you people with acute "business sense" that makes it hard to believe that we are not here to do business and TE is just a community. You on the other hand are here to do business at every opportunity and milk whatever resources you find.

Your paying 5K a month wont even pay for a good meal at a decent place if you divide that by the number of staff members. You cant part away with Rs 1 on a "premium" dvd brand and you have trouble with us making Rs 100 a month.

Now seriously, do you people really think this way or have the propaganda specialists that are infesting TE influenced you so much. I wish they just return to their respective forums and leave TE alone. Sooner or later we will shut them off anyway.

Let me reiterate.

"That is exactly the issue - you want to make money, but don't have the balls to pay for it."

We did see the TY Disc's thread. However, we got the notion of it being a group order. We did think about it, we saw you as a new user and gave you a chance. So thats that for members who think that we should give new members a chance. Let us tell you that we give more chances than you shall get in most of the other forums.

You speak of community service and yet claim to get profits after the initial investment. Haha, professional "community service"!!!! What you need to do is, rethink what you have done. Community service??? Or, does the business term "Initial Investment" ring a bell somewhere?

Let me explain what your intentions seem to be. You claim to offer us hosting etc as a businessman, you have the money, you have the means. However, what you dont have is a platform to start from. What you need is a user base and recognition. Wait, isnt TE a shortcut for it?? Yay!!! The route is found. Now I can make all sorts of claims and get my way. Advertise my business, get users etc for free?? How cool is that?? Later, all I need to do once my site is launched is to stop posting here. The users, since they are already aware of my offers etc. will come there automatically.

Doesnt it seem much like what our politicians do? Eat up on others resources and get their own gain?

Excellent business mind. Your smooth talk will not get the better of us. And just for everyone to know, a little bit of information, we were even offered full time jobs for TE's transformation into a "Newegg". We were even offered to be given initial funds for an office with a building. However, we refused it. Commercialization will ruin the purpose of being unbiased and truly what we are.

Well, again to the point, we donot earn anything from TE. We are not business minded people. We are tech enthusiasts which sets us apart from others. This is not a business for us as you "business minded" people think.

You will not understand it, coz you are nothing but "kids" in the way we think.

You want to create an Indian Newegg and are investing in it, using TE as an initial platform, not even caring for TE, getting free publicity and gaining more userbase, yet claim to have the resources and the backing. We are sure that you know what advertising means. "You claim to be a business-minded" person, however, you skipped the advertising part's detailed description and ofcourse publicity.

We donot see why we shouldnt DEMAND what should rightfully be ours. You are using TE for promotion/advertising. Who cares if its about a company which is going to be setup in a few months, 2 yrs or 50 yrs. Its plain advertising. And with your future business plans exposed and with the exclusive community service offered by you, which we can easily put in business terms as "initial investment", we can conclude using business logic that you are out for nothing but profit. You need a launch for your services. We are sorry to tell you that we donot support this at all.

We started TE with our own money, we dug our pockets for it. What makes you think that we would ask members for the money while we can still afford to pay from our pockets?? This is what sets us apart. You want to make a mark in the business area, we are sorry to tell you but to look for other means.

Once we gave a decision about your threads, you choose to hold the members as hostages in a terrorist situation, trying to blackmail us and pressurize us into a decision. We are extremely sorry, we dont have time to play Counter Strike with you.

Hence our decision as a whole: We shall allow you to carry on with your current deals. However, you will need to:

1. Remove the watermarks and edit them to your username on TE.

2. Host the images on a free image host or attach them using the attachments feature in the posts.

These two were the original problems due to which your thread was unapproved. A public apology for not sending the PM has been posted in this thread by Mask.

Now, regarding your future deals, we reserve the right to allow or disallow any of your future deals with or without reason as is stated in the rules. As far as your offer goes, its totally against our policy. We are not your support forum and will not start a new section for the same. We reject your proposal. Theres no way that we will convert TE into an initial launch-pad for your business. TE is not for sale.

Hence, in the end, we conclude that your current sales can go on if you please. And claiming to be the community server that you are, We cannot see why you wouldnt be interested in "serving the community" by proceeding with your current sales.

We expect you and the others to respect our decision and follow it. We will not entertain any more discussions on this regard. Hence the topic will remain closed. We will be strict in this regard and will not hesitate to use other means to contain the matter.

Thank you for your patience and time to read this.