Forum Feedback New Search Algorithm Needed

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Techman

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I am getting frustrated when I get zero result with a search key for the first time and then "This forum requires that you wait 60 seconds between searches. Please try again in 50 seconds." for the second time.

User Point of View

This would be the main reason for one preferring to post something rather than searching it. This is typically like the RS download, making us wait for every search.

Server Load Point of view

Basically if the search result is zero, then there is ultimately no load on the server. Hence no point in making us wait for another 60 Seconds, it would be fair if the wait time is dynamic like

zero search results then 5 seconds

% of millisecond response time (out of like say 5 seconds) then % of it on 60 seconds

OR atleast make a standard 5 seconds if zero results were found and rest of it 60 seconds.

I would request the Coders / Admins to rethink on this perspective as this site needs lots of searching before posting, to avoid duplication.
 
I too feel that searching is a bit frustrating on TE.

60 Seconds of wait just because of a Typo/a better search term is a bit too irritating... :(

(Happens to me many times)

Can we have the the duration a little less (10 Seconds) for Members... :)
 
Basically if the search result is zero, then there is ultimately no load on the server.
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There will always be a load on the database running the query. A zero result does not mean that the query/search did not utilise database/server resources. only reduction will be in the generation of the web page which the user receives.

you can always use google for searching. just append site:techenclave.com after the search parameters.
techman site:techenclave.com - Google Search
 
pr0ing said:
There will always be a load on the database running the query. A zero result does not mean that the query/search did not utilise database/server resources. only reduction will be in the generation of the web page which the user receives.[/url]
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Yup, there is a connection from the App server to DB server Agreed !!

But if you really see the records retrieved on the Database will be 0 based on the query, which takes hardly any fraction of millisecond if you compare with query result with data. Provided proper index has been built on the key field in database schema.

pr0ing said:
you can always use google for searching. just append site:techenclave.com after the search parameters.
techman site:techenclave.com - Google Search
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This idea was kind of innovative (did not think about it), I was looking for adder comments for buying LCD TV's, however in this case I will not be able to specifically narrow down on what I am looking for.
 
Dude Database will have to search the index even if result is 0 rows.

How will database know that there are no matches ? it has to check rite .
 
^^ Full table scan happens if table is not indexed, full indexed scan happened if the index is not rebuilt (or built on different key). If proper indexing is done, the where clause narrows down the exact number of rows to be retrieved which is zero.
 
Basically if the search result is zero, then there is ultimately no load on the server.
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Agreed but what about the 100 others using the search feature at the same time? That's a load on the server right?
 
The search built in vbulletin anyways sucks compared to google results with site:techenclave.com appended to search string.

Agreed that proper indexing reduces load but do you really think index will be built on columns of text which contains data for posts ? I don't think so, there's a reason that delay was put in. It also reduces number of alternate searches overall.
 
thetoxicmind said:
Agreed but what about the 100 others using the search feature at the same time? That's a load on the server right?
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it would establish numerous connections, in a way its a load where the appserver has to allocate seperate memory for the connection threads and the connection pool to DB for the related query from App to DB.
But in most of the cases the DB would be the bottleneck for processing huge queries. Also at the Appserver end, the size of the memory for each thread vary based on the data it carries, which is zero in our case. :)

rapt0r said:
The search built in vbulletin anyways sucks compared to google results with site:techenclave.com appended to search string.

Agreed that proper indexing reduces load but do you really think index will be built on columns of text which contains data for posts ? I don't think so, there's a reason that delay was put in. It also reduces number of alternate searches overall.
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Thats the reason I was opting for code change (as the topic suggests), it could be based on the ms response from DB (if not searched using key field which should be the posts) or based on the results obtained from DB. Positively it would be better to have the next wait time changed dynamically (or atleast to be set to 5 or 10 seconds fixed for the mentioned criteria)
 
why not upgrade the server rather than annoying 60seconds wait time, site does run slow anyways. so its better to get powerful server. you will have to upgrade as traffic would increase even more, so why not now?
 
the timeout value is more to prevent bots/ hijackers from using tools to load the forum and create a dos/ddos scene.
 
If inbuilt search engine is the issue, why not use other less resource hungry full text search engines? not sure how to integrate with vbulletin, though.
 
I tell you guys.... the admins and owners of TE are making a huge pile of money but not spending it on better servers. They are just stashing everything in the Cayman islands(swiss banks are unsafe nowadays).

Let's boycott TE. Then the load will be much lesser on the server and the remaining members can search once in 10 seconds! :rofl:
 
:fear: Dude the last time you made up a story like this in History thread everyone believed it, even though it sounded complete BS.

@others - Why are you using advanced search. If you just use the default sitewide search you will get results faster since it is the google custom search.
 
Renegade said:
:

@others - Why are you using advanced search. If you just use the default sitewide search you will get results faster since it is the google custom search.
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Because its far better/accurate than Google CSE:P

Google is good for general search but for forums, inbuilt search is more suited. why, I can give you n number of reasons, what Vbulletion Search can do more accurately:P. here are few examples which I can think right now; what I can do with Vbulletin inbuilt search but the same is not possible with Google CSE(or its less accurate)

1) I can perform search queries per user, example listing all threads started by a particular user or searching for a particular keyword among thousands of posts made by a particular user. not possible with Google

2) Narrow now the search target to sub forums,In Built search can be used to search only particular forums like General talk while leaving the rest.

3) Have my search results listed as posts, instead of threads. helps narrow down few usefull posts out huge threads

4) Sorting: search results can be sorts No of posts,No of Views,starting date in both ascending and descending order.

5) No stupid ads pasted right front of your face:|

6) Most important, a nice interface with lot of options. I know some of above things can be done using google as well but for that you need to remember search operators which is cumbersome.

IMO, Google CSE can never replace the functionality and flexibility of inbuilt vBulletin search tool.
 
^ Exactly my point, there are several information being archieved in this site which are so beautiful. Many members have contributed excellent information. But the sad part is the 60 seconds makes us forget/ ignore what we search for. I agree that its too much to say "forget" for mere 60 seconds, but if I am doing multiple things at the same time (eg: working at office and searching for something at TE), then I get disconnected often (my personal experience).

Another stupidity of google is that it goes by the maximum hit views, we dont want that, there would be some beautiful reviews that might have not been viewed several times of a particular product/news/info as Gaurish pointed out.

Also another thing I wanted to mention here is to come up with an index of informative thread, because things get ignored as time passes by, its just in my imagination could not come up with a presentable way. A lot of thread getting bumped which are older than 1 or 2 years seems to be interesting, this is when I used to wonder what else I have missed to read in TE. This will stop lot of duplicate post. Not sure if something like this is already existing (no way to search that too :) )
 
Hmm.. lets see. Will see if something can be done around the next forum software update within a month.

@techman - Very good point and thanks for reminding us that. It was in our list of things to do. Since it will be a daunting task for the mods alone to do, members participation will help a lot. How about we start a thread in every section which will be a sticky and members can post which threads from the past they want to get indexed in that thread.

E.g. in Graphics Section a sticky thread named - Best threads from the past in Graphics and Eyecandy.

You guys nominate the threads to be indexed there.. it gets indexed and the nominations cleaned up subsequently.
 
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