Pakistan and its allegations

[adder]

if a war does take place like air to ground strikes ,india will have minimum loses,since pakistan doesnt have the defense to counter our over whelming air power,they only have around 30 planes or so that can even fire a BVR(beyond visular range) missile,that to with inferior range compared to the IAF planes like SU30MKI,MIG29 both of which can fire R77,which has more range and thanks to the SU30MKI powerfull rador we can engage them,they will realise only when their planes start to fall from the skies,a single squadron of SU30MKI can wipe out most of their threat aircrafts namely F16,their rest of the planes are a joke.
the a USAF pilot in the recent RED flag exercise did concule that our SU30MKI are atleast 10% better then every other plane in USAF except the F22.

 

[Rockfella]

India is a soft country thats what is weird.

 

[Speedz]

But to come to think of it, imagine if we thought like the Pakistani government it would have caused widespread damage to us and as well as them,no wonder we would have destroyed the guilty but also the innocent alike.

The point is not how hard we hit them but how hard we hit them with minimal recoil. Cause a war is not a strategy game where u send truckloads of troops over n over n finally pull down the opposition.

I would say if we can find a way through negotiation even if its take time then it's fine.War is not and should not be the solution.

 

[Ravi_D]

war is never a solution,a nuke war would be the beginning of the end for the indian sub-continent.Kiss good-bye to the so-called next super-power status.

anybody who has seen 'How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb' would understand it doesn't matter how superior your air-force is and how many troops you have,its immaterial in the face of a nuke war.

I still believe both countries can live in peace and harmony.Give the democratic setup a little more time,Though I agree letting such a unstable state grow in possession of nukes is harmfull for the whole world and doesn't make any sense for any counrty to support pakistan.

pressurizing Pakistan diplomatically beyond its limits would give the army and the militants more reasons to take control yet again,we have to understand there is hardly anything the civilian pak. govt. can do,they are just for namesake.Support the paki democracy.

and OH btw,they don't have just '2' nukes,they have about 50-100 nuke warheads,while India have anywhere between 100-200.And NO,India yet doesn't have the most efficient method of using nukes i.e. submarine and navy.

 

[Speedz]

What about anti nuke defences my friend.. agreed war is not the solution and thats what i said too.. but i heard there are anti nuke defences rite.. or am i wrong??

 

[Arya]

war is never a solution,a nuke war would be the beginning of the end for the indian sub-continent.Kiss good-bye to the so-called next super-power status.

anybody who has seen 'How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb' would understand it doesn't matter how superior your air-force is and how many troops you have,its immaterial in the face of a nuke war.

I still believe both countries can live in peace and harmony.Give the democratic setup a little more time,Though I agree letting such a unstable state grow in possession of nukes is harmfull for the whole world and doesn't make any sense for any counrty to support pakistan.

pressurizing Pakistan diplomatically beyond its limits would give the army and the militants more reasons to take control yet again,we have to understand there is hardly anything the civilian pak. govt. can do,they are just for namesake.Support the paki democracy.

and OH btw,they don't have just '2' nukes,they have about 50-100 nuke warheads,while India have anywhere between 100-200.And NO,India yet doesn't have the most efficient method of using nukes i.e. submarine and navy.

Its not the good solution, but it has solved few problems in past. But scene is little different now with nukes and stuff. 24 hours into the fight, it may not stand a chance to retaliate altogether. Ground skirmishes will continue but india will dominate airspace.

Pakistan knows this and they will use the Nuke at first opportunity. Not sure about south Asia but it will definitely mean end of pak. Look at the brighter side, we'll have no problem getting oil/gas from Iran and Turkmenistan

 

[SharekhaN]

Anybody with some idea can answer this question of mine if they can,

Suppose Pak does fire a nuke at us , say Delhi, or a region in Gujrat, What chance do we have of avoiding it, or detecting it fast enough. Is it even a possibility for Delhi to react once its fired so that it can be shot down ?

 

[Arya]

I doubt there is a chance of avoiding it. It will hardly take few mins (10 - 30), less than 5 if actually launched. Given Pakistan is on highest level of alert. India can retaliate pretty quick and take out all strategic targets. Its very unlikely that pakistan will just use 1 nuke and sit tight to let India think.

 

[SharekhaN]

So its a major loss, India should not be risking this and should strike pre-emptively at its air force and nuclear bases. That is the only way India has a chance to avoid a nuclear scenario. I know India will not use the nukes as a first option, but a nuke with Pakistan is like a nuke with a mad man.

 

[paraman]

Where do you think the supply lines for troops in Afghanistan goes through ?

Recall that a cpl of weeks ago a consignment of arms got attacked on its way there.

A little warning perhaps, to the US not to push too hard on this issue

America can route aid through India too if they wish to. America is under the illusion that Pakistan is helping them fight the Taliban. But a couple of days back the Taliban said that if war with India does take place then they (i.e. the Taliban) will help the Pakistan army!!!

Taliban owes its existence to the ISI and by proxy, to the army. Army officials are sent under deputation to the Lashkar, Jammat or whatever they may choose to call themselves.

Now even Nawaz Sharief is changing his tune. Last week he said that Kasab was a Pakistani. Now he too is asking India for 'proof'. Even bloody Imran Khan is against a ban on the Jamaat-ud-Dawa. So when push comes to shove all Pakis react the same way. They dare not seem to be soft on India otherwise the terrorists will not hesitate to kill them. Recall what happened with Ms Bhutto.

Helping terrorists is like riding a tiger. Once you get on it you dare not dismount otherwise the tiger will kill you. You have to keep riding.

 

[adder]

Anybody with some idea can answer this question of mine if they can,

Suppose Pak does fire a nuke at us , say Delhi, or a region in Gujrat, What chance do we have of avoiding it, or detecting it fast enough. Is it even a possibility for Delhi to react once its fired so that it can be shot down ?

I doubt there is a chance of avoiding it. It will hardly take few mins (10 - 30), less than 5 if actually launched. Given Pakistan is on highest level of alert. India can retaliate pretty quick and take out all strategic targets. Its very unlikely that pakistan will just use 1 nuke and sit tight to let India think.

well india can intercept missiles ,but the reaction time is high,there is some chance of intercepting if the missile comes towards south india,but delhi is very near,but pakistan on the other hand doesnt have any kind of anti missile defense sheild.
we do have the S300 SAM which can be used to intercept just like the US which uses patriot which was orginally a SAM to intercept incoming skud missiles fired by iraq in the gulf war 1,the S300 is a russian built slighlty advanced version compared to US patriot,it is also rumored in western defense sites that we may have the latest S400 systems as well.these anti missiles can engage a incoming ballistic missiles at a maximum range of approx300km away.
we also have the home grown prithvi missile defense sheild which can intercept a missile at a altitude of 50km high it can track a incoming missile at a max of 600km away.
we also have the Advanced Air Defence system which can hit targets at a altitude of 15km high.

 

[Ravi_D]

^^in short they aren't good enough for missiles with nuke warhead.

and people who said India can hit the strategic nuke locations withing hours need to understand it doesn't take much to actually launch nuke missile,they don't exactly need base station to launch them afaik.

and think about the aftermath of a nuke war,pakistan is gone,so is most imp. cities and states of India,now what do you assume china is gonna do?They aren't supporting Pakistan for nothing.China will be in the most advantageous position after the war,they will have no effect of nukes,say thanks to the great Himalayan barrier.

I would say,there will be just 2-3 major nations by the end of 2050 considering todays geopolitics.Humans shouldn't survive more that 150years from now on,say 2150.

 

[adder]

^^in short they aren't good enough for missiles with nuke warhead.

and people who said India can hit the strategic nuke locations withing hours need to understand it doesn't take much to actually launch nuke missile,they don't exactly need base station to launch them afaik.

and think about the aftermath of a nuke war,pakistan is gone,so is most imp. cities and states of India,now what do you assume china is gonna do?They aren't supporting Pakistan for nothing.China will be in the most advantageous position after the war,they will have no effect of nukes,say thanks to the great Himalayan barrier.

I would say,there will be just 2-3 major nations by the end of 2050 considering todays geopolitics.Humans shouldn't survive more that 150years from now on,say 2150.

well the US will put a lot of pressure on pakistan not to go for a nuke war,AFAIK both countries india and pak has the NO First Use policy,we are not going after their capital but we are only going after their terror camps which frankly is every where,if being fired upon they have to do it via Air by their F16 which doesnt have a chance,their ground based SAM system are primitve .
well hope the US gets their Airborne laser system ready soon,also there are reports the india and usa are working out a plan for joint missile defense shield.
finaly is serioulsy doubt our goverment is even going to go after their terror camps atleast not in the present UPA goverment.

 

[SharekhaN]

US has a lot to gain with the absense of Pakistan. There is deep rooted hate for Islam and the US under all its facade is still a country carrying out a Christian fundamentalistic mission. They are the one afterall, who coined the term, "The Islamic Bomb" and such.

India, by far is truly a neutral country I belive ( to what environment it can provide ) with equal rights to Muslims or Christians or Hindus without prejudice. So the people of the world actually lose out a lot, if India is hurt. Not to mention the business losses.

Without Pakistan, Islam would have lost a lot of foothold. A nuke war while avoidable, I wouldnt say, is something the US is not wishing for. It may even welcome one, of course, just not admit it out loud.

I am of a strong belief that, the current situation will not escalate to a nuclear showdown. I hope I am right.

 

[Speedz]

Ok now people don't go to thinkin that pak aims 4 nukes at delhi,mumbai kolkata n chennai n KABOOM we r all dead before we do anything..

Also it is not gonna be like officials in India will detect a missile(s) coming and knowing they are gonna die press the Launch button seconds before they die..

India HAS nuke DEFENSES .. especially in the major cities. i am not saying they are foolproof but chances are higher that they will stop the missiles than let em in..Google a bit .. there's nothing clear but u search deep enuf n u'll sleep tight..

 

[blr_p]

America can route aid through India too if they wish to.

Does not look feasible. Neither is the alternate route practical, through central Asia, suggested in the article posted earlier. The recent incident in Georgia has not really endeared Russia. But its wait & see, if the US suffers, then maybe the Russians can get a better deal to allow supplies through. Otherwise if the US then ups & quits, Russia will have a bigger mess in her backyard but the Paks will have scored a major win.

The best route is unload at the port of Gwadar and through Baluchistan, losing this is the biggest showstopper.

America is under the illusion that Pakistan is helping them fight the Taliban.

The supply route and the fact the pak military has engaged the militants from time to time keeps them in their good books. Hard to say they have not bled for the Americans. US already invested billions in waging the Afghan war and are about to send in more troops if Obama follows through on earlier statements. They cant afford to dump the Paks at this point.

It's time like this you wonder how different things would have been if Iran was an ally instead of an adversary. Oil & gas plus just as short a trip to the Afghan border.

Now even Nawaz Sharief is changing his tune. Last week he said that Kasab was a Pakistani. Now he too is asking India for 'proof'.

Heh, yeah, all in very good form, typical of the Pak establishment.

A different angle came up on my reading, an economic war. If so, then it has already begun. Keep them on hairtrigger alert through strongly worded statements for the next few months, an incursion here & there. Bleed them financially. We have a PM & HM that are specialists in all things to do with money.

If one of the major aims was to inflict economic loss then return the favour, but this time get the world to add conditionalities, need more money then clean up house.

Is it true that economically could be more effective than militarily ?

No shots fired, americans keep their WOT and we attain our objectives

Will only work if everyone beleives we are very certain to go ahead othewise !

 

[amigoatul]

I don't think any more proof is required... What are they expecting a s3x tape of Kasab and Z@rd@ri or do they want to see the Pakistani seal on Kasab's dick.....

Hilarious sh!t...but on a more serious note....die u Paki terrorist MFs.....hope they can dig some sense out of their shitty brains before they are toast....

 

[SharekhaN]

I was going through some links given by blr_p. The defense.pk forums. I saw a number of Indian forum members who are trying to broker peace, however the mainstream population on the forum who comprise of Pakistani's seem to hold a lot of hatred towards India. Although we do bash Pakistan, I dont see us that rigid or hateful. Is it just me or is it my perception.

I wonder where does that stem from? Although, we have been educated about our wars and differences, the people I have been in contact with over the years have mostly wanted peace and not a conflict. And its just the opposite what I have seen.

Are there any pakistani forums that anyone of us know, that actually preach peace and resolve with us Indians?

OT: I have also read up on some chinese people on the forum who belive - India is the #1 enemy of China. I mean wow, we are sourrounded by people who positively hate our guts.

 

[blr_p]

I was going through some links given by blr_p. The defense.pk forums. I saw a number of Indian forum members who are trying to broker peace, however the mainstream population on the forum who comprise of Pakistani's seem to hold a lot of hatred towards India. Although we do bash Pakistan, I dont see us that rigid or hateful. Is it just me or is it my perception.

I'm not certain how representative that forum is of the population as a whole, better informed possibly, but mirror image of their media, total denial.

I really have to doff my hat to the indian members there who endure all the crap to make their points heard. Its much easier to say within our crowd what you would like to do but quite another saying the same to them

I wonder where does that stem from? Although, we have been educated about our wars and differences, the people I have been in contact with over the years have mostly wanted peace and not a conflict. And its just the opposite what I have seen.

Are there any pakistani forums that anyone of us know, that actually preach peace and resolve with us Indians?

There may be a silent majority that does not get a chance to publicly air those views. Would it be safe to do so in that country ?

Any sites with the word 'defense' isn't very likely to preach peace but its valuable to understand what the alternative entails before choosing to do go down it.

 

[scarezebra]

I was going through some links given by blr_p. The defense.pk forums. I saw a number of Indian forum members who are trying to broker peace, however the mainstream population on the forum who comprise of Pakistani's seem to hold a lot of hatred towards India. Although we do bash Pakistan, I dont see us that rigid or hateful. Is it just me or is it my perception.

I was wondering the same thing after going thru the links in blr_p's post..... Hardly any of them can think beyond WAR..... The hatred they have in them just shows majority of the members on those forums are just ppl who have almost crossed over the chasm separating Human Beings and TERRORISTS (No I do NOT consider terrorists as HUMAN beings)

I don't know why(...well actually I do .... its just stupidity), but many of them think they actually stand a chance if at all a war breaks between India and Pakistan......

I was actually feeling sorry for the Indian guy "Slugger" and "IndiaPaktogether" who were trying their best to show some sense to those morons--->It looked like Pamela Anderson was stripping for bunch of castrated men- The men like what they see but the thing where it needs to make an impact is absent.(In case of the fanatics on the website ---BRAINS or a HEART)

PS: Also..hardly anyone in those forums can write a proper sentence in English