PC Peripherals People and their FADS

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K

KiD0M4N

Forerunner
:hap5: :hap5: :hap5: :hap5:

I had to post this..... to vanquish my SELF IMMOLATING ANGER. I feel sad at these people* (more on them later) for wasting money and exhibiting weakness of mind.

Point in issue: Gaming Server

Sadness: ECC RAM.

Reason: ECC > Normal ram (as in speed) :rofl:

A gaming forum (first time such a big one in India, sorry no links, dont wanna flaimbait) recently purchased a new server with 2 Dual Xeons (3.0 HT) and 2GB (2 x 1GB) of ECC RAM.

My point: HE is gonna run game servers on that machine, which by any stretch of imagination are not MISSION critical. Heck I run my non l33t non ECC ram machine 24x7 w/o any crashes and do a lot of work on it.

He could hv SIMPLY gone with the cheapest AMD dual core offering (currently 3800+ or 165Opty) the cheapest Mobo (say a ASUS with onboard Gfx) and spent couple of hours overclocking the thing on stock volts (2.5 Ghz easy) coupled with 2 GB of UCCC and gotten 4 x better performance that what he is gonna get now.

Why people dont wanna use their brains? I will never know.

Regards,

Karan
 
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: !!

Karan, ECC RAM was built for a purpose. Do a bit of research on how a server works and then you'll understand.

Also nobody puts desktops chips into a server and overclocks them (:rofl:)...

Stuff like Dual Xeons are also built for reasons, not just for "People and their FADS"
 
Well what you say is right karan but may be he wants to use the system for some other crucial things for which he needs to be dead sure about the overall stability of the system.

May be thats the reaosn he went for it...

Anyways ECC Ram is not at all faster than normal ones..just my opinion though.

But i do agree with you,there are some jackasses who think they are always right...
leave them alone na man,why are you getting so irritated....lol

Chill!!
 
Anish said:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: !!

Karan, ECC RAM was built for a purpose. Do a bit of research on how a server works and then you'll understand.

Also nobody puts desktops chips into a server and overclocks them (:rofl:)...

Stuff like Dual Xeons are also built for reasons, not just for "People and their FADS"
Click to expand...
He is actually right in a way, ECC ram isnt required at all especially since its a gaming server not something which is handling a mission critical process, app. So reliability and data corruption isn't a pre-requisite actually. And plus from what i know non-ecc will be faster than similarly clocked ecc ram.

So yes the person could have used common sense and went for the config karan posted and saved a lot of money in the process.
 
well yeah kinda.

ECC is actiually little slower than non ECC RAM clocked at same speeds.

for gaming server he wont even need to oc the procesor like 3800+ X2.

Run it at stock and it will handle loads just fine.
 
Anish said:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: !!

Karan, ECC RAM was built for a purpose. Do a bit of research on how a server works and then you'll understand.

Also nobody puts desktops chips into a server and overclocks them (:rofl:)...

Stuff like Dual Xeons are also built for reasons, not just for "People and their FADS"
Click to expand...

anish why do i always get a feeling that you talk out of the wrong end? :bleh:

anyways:

ECC RAM was build for a purpose. I know that better that you and everyone heres knows that I know it better than you, too. :P

HE IS BUILDING A GAMING SERVER. NOT A CLIENT TO PROCESS GAZILLION WEBHITS PER SEC. HE WANTS PERFORMANCE MORE THAN STABILITY, CUZ THE HIGHER PERFORMING THE SERVER IS, THE MORE NUMBER OF PLAYER SLOTS HE CAN SELL.

(I put that in preety pink so that you dont take it as personal attack :tongue: )

Seriously did you even read my original post? Dual Xeon is not a stuff, its 2 SEPARATE processors.

And would you kindly tell me why the dual xeon setup is so better according t o you that you go :rofl: ing immediately?

From what I know, he spend 65K on the deal. I would hv spent 3/4 that and got a server which performed say, 4 times faster. That would be reason enuf for me....;)
 
Hope this puts things into perspective: if I needed to set up a server that would run 7x24, I wouldn't dare throw in desktop components and say it's cheaper and faster so I did it.
 
^^In case of a server, reliability matters more than anything else. Would you like if the server reboots right in the middle of a cs or quake fragfest? All it'll end up doing is alienating the potential players on the server. In such case, the xeon does make sense, though i'd have gone for two opteron 242 chips or something similar to that. The cpu power on the server won't matter most of the time anyway, its the bandwidth that is a bigger bottleneck than the processor in the server.
 
Lol.

Karan this thread is useless.

If i couldnt convince that person, who can. You know that im the most convincing person around ;).

ECC RAM only Serve's one purpose, Very Low Data-Corruption and Errors.

It comes at a price of high timings though.

It is very useless for Gaming Servers and Small-Websites even.

Also, Karan, people dont Overclock for Servers, as they need Stability.

CPU's are Stock, Specially AMD, are more reliable than at an OC'ed speed.

I tried to convince him for Opteron 242's.

Which are roughly for the same price as the Xeon 3Ghz which he purchased.

He would even same on the normal DDR-400 Ram, vs. DDR-2 400 ECC RAM.

Im not gonna take any names here. Even though, none of those people visit TE. I dont have another Flamewar.

Karan, theres no reason for you to be angry about it.

I tried my best, they didnt listen.

Karan, Remember, RACK Space, COSTS A BOMB, specially in India.

Where those Servers are hosted, it cost's 20k per year, more for Each U increase.

Free for 1U, 2U = 20k, 3U = 40k, and 4U = 60k.

So you cant exactly put 165's or even 180's for that matter for a Servers.

As the cooling has to 1U ! Thats Fanless, with just 1 Case Fan, blowing a bit of air, on the Server. Infact, even 2U is Fanless, 3U is the Default HSF which comes with the XEON. Without the Fan its 2U.

Anyways, just 4get about it. Since thost people dont even read these forums. Its useless.

The Xeon's arent a bad choice. But it could have been better.
 
@ Karan - :rofl: !!

Whenever you try to defend yourself, ok let it be...

Do you understand the difference between a "Desktop" and a "Server" ?

Just one word makes the diff. - "RELIABILITY"
 
Hey Anish, Karan is right (IMO). What I think is that ECC (Error-Correcting Code) RAM is a must for database servers and domain servers where even one byte loss can create havocs. But Game servers dont need them as such a loss wont do any harm to the server or the host. Even web hosting servers dont require ECC RAMS.

You can put that anywhere, the thing is that the extra cost will actually never pay.

In a game server, what max a normal ram with such loss will do is that one Karan will shout, "WTH man, I shot that Anish, why didnt that connected, bl**dy lag" :) (No offences meant, JK)

And he is even more right about the speed of the RAM. ECC ones are slower.
 
I'd agree but maybe he's looking to upgrade to a web server config also later.

Still, for a 24x7 server a "cheap ASUS mobo with onboard graphics" is not enough for a server :no:
 
I agree with cheap ASUS mobo, but actually, you really dont need a graphics card for a gaming server. Onboard will do.

Correct me if I'm wrong guys.
 
RiO said:
I don't understand why he started this thread :D
Click to expand...
well well well..... anish, you are so kind as to always point out the OBVIOUS to me. u so cool :clap: :clap: :clap: repped u also :D

anyways back to topic.....

HE is not gonna use the machine for anything else other than Running GAME Servers.

ECC RAM is overkill for it. Its like wearing a crash suite everytime you take a ride on your bike. Heck, its hard enuf to convince people to wear helmets, but ECC RAM, they must have.

OPTERON AFAIK is a server proccy right anish? surely you dont need any reminding of that :P

hmm, true I wasnt aware of the space constraints, but even a 3800+ with a 1U heatsink (easily available) would suffice and fit nicely in a 1U cabinet. right guys?

i guess I have to repeat "Game Server" "Game Server" a few more times.
 
Without an actual server cpu, server board and ECC ram, it's not a true server, so you can't expect it to behave like one in terms of stability/reliability. About the RAM, I know people who have set up servers with non-ECC RAM and I don't know if they had trouble, but if you don't want to take chances, spend the extra cash and get the real thing.
 
Well, First of all, can you both, as in Karan and Anish, stop trying to bring one another down?

Back to the topic...

Karan, the temperatures, would not be appropriate, with a 1U HS, on a 3800+.

The reason, some1 goes for a Xeon/Opteron, is lower temp's.

Thats it.
 
RiO said:
Without an actual server cpu, server board and ECC ram, it's not a true server, so you can't expect it to behave like one in terms of stability/reliability. About the RAM, I know people who have set up servers with non-ECC RAM and I don't know if they had trouble, but if you don't want to take chances, spend the extra cash and get the real thing.
Click to expand...
hmm ok tell me.... since you are so convinced that i am retarded in thinking of setting up a game server (mind you, my machine "serve"s as a peer to about 500 torrent clients every night) using parts which will actually give more performance compared to just plopping in low-end server products, well :no:

well, its like this: when you are running game servers (now i am actually referring to the actual executables of the game's server), you need every ounce of processing power you can muster. because, for every player the server is handling, it has to calculate physics, hits, etc, etc, etc, more than 30 times (for bad servers) upto 100 times per second (servers with sv_maxupdaterate 101, good servers) that takes a big toll on the processing power and thus must be dealt with by reducing the update rate and thus hampering the game play for all.

suppose you get a server crash once every 3 months, heck your MTBF will be greater than that accorded to you by the great indian ISPs.

its just about not being fool hardy....
 
@ Karan, CS 1.6 servers, with 101 Updaterate, hardly make a difference to the CPU Usage.
Games like CS Source, hell yeah!
 
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