Protest against companies dictatorship

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If HP wants to exercise such control, why are they knowingly supplying online retailers?
If they want to penalise someone why not penalise their distributor who supplies online stores instead of arm twisting a consumer?

Are they really? I think these unauthorized resellers just buy the products and resell them. For example, you can buy 20 laptops from HP distributor and use them for setting up a small office or you can run a resale business of them. So, how does HP stop it at a level where it doesn't know what the person is going to do with them? Its the reselling part that needs to be checked. BTW, if the person who purchased the laptops from HP takes them back for warranty, I don't think HP can deny them. They can however deny warranty to the final buyer if he goes directly to HP even if he has a proof of purchase from the person who resold to him.

We don't have specific laws against unauthorized selling. But even in absence of tailored laws, certain companies are still taking action. For instance, Quick Heal has legal proceedings initiated against Flipkart and several others for unauthorized reselling of their products at considerable discounts resulting in their brand value diminishing.

As for the Samsung bit, its a different argument altogether. See, people are confusing these two things. Authorized/unauthorized resale is a completely different argument to discounted/predatory pricing.

HP's stance is on unauthorized re-sales. They are well within their rights to deny their "limited warranty" to sales not conforming to the terms laid out by them be they on line or offline sellers. Their problem is not with directly with on-line resellers, but with unauthorized sellers.

On the other hand, what Samsung is saying is that they won't stop supplies to an on-line authorized reseller just because they are selling it cheaper than the offline resellers and those people want to stop it. I fully appreciate their stance on it.
 
Are they really? I think these unauthorized resellers just buy the products and resell them. For example, you can buy 20 laptops from HP distributor and use them for setting up a small office or you can run a resale business of them. So, how does HP stop it at a level where it doesn't know what the person is going to do with them? Its the reselling part that needs to be checked. BTW, if the person who purchased the laptops from HP takes them back for warranty, I don't think HP can deny them. They can however deny warranty to the final buyer if he goes directly to HP even if he has a proof of purchase from the person who resold to him.

Well according to you online sellers are buying from the resellers then how they can give items at low rates? and if they are giving at low rates after purchasing from the resellers then that means the brick & mortar shop owners are looting us.

We don't have specific laws against unauthorized selling. But even in absence of tailored laws, certain companies are still taking action. For instance, Quick Heal has legal proceedings initiated against Flipkart and several others for unauthorized reselling of their products at considerable discounts resulting in their brand value diminishing.

How they can say we are doing against laws just consider that if stationary shop buy some product from reseller for example a soap and he sells it according to you he is breaking the law.These sales may be unauthorized but not illegal because they are selling original only not copy cats.About the softwares these may be true but for hardware things i don't know.This companies saying that cheap means their brand value is diminishing,what is the concept behind it actually people will like more if they give quality products at such low rates.
 
Well according to you online sellers are buying from the resellers then how they can give items at low rates? and if they are giving at low rates after purchasing from the resellers then that means the brick & mortar shop owners are looting us.

It depends on the context. Most B&M stores do loot the customers. On top of the product price, they add a lot of extra costs that they incur for their business which is fine, but they then also add insane amounts of margin. On the flip side, many on line retailers gain a pricing edge by selling at a loss. For example, Flipkart may sell a 5k product for 4.5k and eat the 500 Rs loss as a brand building cost. Why do you think Flipkart had a 1300 crore loss last year? This is called predatory pricing and this type of strategies are used not only to build their own brand, but also to ensure that people don't buy from anybody else.

Both the things are bad and neither of them is playing fair, so, as a customer, I am even fine with the predatory pricing on line. I would prefer to buy anything on line over going to a B&M store, but then If I want warranty, I would still go to an authorized seller. I don't have unfair expectations from manufacturers.

How they can say we are doing against laws just consider that if stationary shop buy some product from reseller for example a soap and he sells it according to you he is breaking the law.These sales may be unauthorized but not illegal because they are selling original only not copy cats.About the softwares these may be true but for hardware things i don't know.

I said it is illegal in some countries, I am not referring to India. In India, such kind of unauthorized sales enjoy the same status as parallel imports/grey market items. You can buy them for what ever price you are getting it at, but the manufacturer has no obligation towards that product. You obtained the product from somebody who they don't know or authorize, so why would they need to provide any service.

Its a really simple concept and I don't see why you cannot understand it, Lets just take an example...

Lets just say you created a new product and decide to sell it with a personal warranty of 30 days.
  • Lets say Person A brought some units of the item on day 1 for Rs 100 each. Person A then decides to sell some units to some Person B on day 20 for Rs. 110 each. Person A tells person B that he has 30 days warranty.
  • Person B sells some of units of the item to Person C after 10 more days for Rs 130 each and tells him that he has 30 days warranty.
  • Person C them sells an item to Person D and E after 20 more days for Rs 150 and tells them that they have 30 days warranty.
  • Now person C was a careless person and person D got a damaged item. Person E also finds that his item no longer works after 5 more days. Person C directs both these persons to you since you are the original manufacturer who is offering the warranty.
55 days after you sold the items to Person A, you are approached by Persons D and E with a receipt from Person C none of whom you know at all and they want you to either replace the item or refund your Rs 150 each. Now you tell me how you are going to respond?

Option 1: You tell them that you have no liability towards the warranty promises given by Person C to D and E and that your obligations are only to Person A and only from date you sold to Person A. You ask them to go to Person C with their problems.

Option 2: You either replace the item or refund Rs 150 each to Person D and E at your expense

This companies saying that cheap means their brand value is diminishing,what is the concept behind it actually people will like more if they give quality products at such low rates.

It is called brand perception. We have many Chinese phones in India and people think they are of poor quality. When a brand like Xiaomi comes in and also sells at same same price point, People assume that they are also just another brand and of inferior quality. I know many people who didn't know about Xiaomi tick of Mi3 as just another cheap Chinese phone.

This is especially true in countries like ours where people associate cost with quality. Anything that is cheap is considered to be of poor quality. So even when a good quality product is sold too cheap, it will have a negative impact on the overall brand itself and their ability to do business. There is a reason why Companies like Apple have abnormally high prices. Its not like they are doing it just for margins. Reducing the prices would actually have a negative impact on how people perceive their brand.
 
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BTW yesterday in TOI it came that Samsung has backed off and hence now not joining Sony and LG in in campaigning against its online retail products. They said as far as their products are getting sold and they are topping market they got no issues. But they may or may not entertain warranties on items bought from fk etc.
 
@Lord Nemesis I still do not understand how a common consumer will know whether a shop is an authorized reseller or not.

In my local electronics market, there are a lot of shops selling laptops. How will I know who is an authorized reseller?
If I ask the shop owner, obviously he will claim that he is an authorized reseller.

And even if he is an authorized reseller, what is stopping him from buying the laptops online at a heavh discount and then selling it via his shop and billing the buyer on his official receipt?
(I have heard that this is done by quite a few B&M shops)
 
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BTW yesterday in TOI it came that Samsung has backed off and hence now not joining Sony and LG in in campaigning against its online retail products. They said as far as their products are getting sold and they are topping market they got no issues. But they may or may not entertain warranties on items bought from fk etc.
I'm sure every manufacturer thinks the same too. It's just that e-commerce market is too small and they have to give in to demands by offline retailers' lobby. It's a balancing act.
 
In my local electronics market, there are a lot of shops selling laptops. How will I know who is an authorized reseller?
If I ask the shop owner, obviously he will claim that he is an authorized reseller.


I am really accepting your idea.So according to company only few are authorized reseller just take this example

upload_2014-10-16_21-56-9.png


I have shown above screenshot of a HP tablet sales authorized centers.I can only see a few sellers who are selling the HP products most of the shops are not listed here.So that means I have to go this shops to get the products and most of them is bulk seller and they will sell only in multiples.

SO that means wherever I buy HP products other than mentioned here they all are fraud and not authorized .Well played HP then i think its time to move from FAmous companies who wants to control their consumers freedom and buy from others who offer quality products but doesn't have that much consumer base.
 

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HP is shit anyway.

Most of us here are influencers when it comes to giving recommendations regarding tech products. This will hurt their bottomline real bad in the coming future.
 
Why they are doing like this
Misleading the public, all it takes is one court case to clarify things.

People sell things on this board all the time with warranty remaining. Nobody has designated them as 'authorised' reseller.

I don't see any sense in it and basically it is act against consumer rights and human rights.Its like they are asking us to buy candy from this store only not any other store.But basically its our right to choose from which shop we want to purchase and in a competitive world if the company is not able to provide good service then there are other options also.
Oh it makes perfect sense for the people pushing this nonsense. They are betting that most people will not risk a warranty being refused over something like this. Once the warranty expires you're on your own anyway. Depending on the product its a year for phones and could be 2 for other devices. Going up to 3 years with certain devices from certain makes. Most companies want to forget you after a year.

So the question is on what basis can they refuse to honour warranty ? Once the term expires is one.[DOUBLEPOST=1413497240][/DOUBLEPOST]
Have you seen latest news. Flipkart is facing allegation of tax return
Because of the billion day. And case is filed by merchants and their agents
here is an explanation.

that article left me thinking the govt might have over stepped. Any BCom types wanna clarify ?
 
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@Lord Nemesis I still do not understand how a common consumer will know whether a shop is an authorized reseller or not.

In my local electronics market, there are a lot of shops selling laptops. How will I know who is an authorized reseller?
If I ask the shop owner, obviously he will claim that he is an authorized reseller
.

And even if he is an authorized reseller, what is stopping him from buying the laptops online at a heavh discount and then selling it via his shop and billing the buyer on his official receipt?
(I have heard that this is done by quite a few B&M shops)
You are right.
In my opinion, the letter posted on the front page is a big hokum raised by manufacturers.

I have bought many electrical items from brick & mortar shops. The warranty card is signed and stamped by the dealer.
When I have a problem, I usually run back to the shop, but in case I am at different location - I may go to a different dealer, or contact the manufacturers helpline.
Heck, whenever I bought a mobile phone and had a problem, the dealers directed me to go to authorized service center (of say Nokia, Siemens, Samsung etc.).
All they ever checked was the bill/receipt. In fact I have not seen anyone checking the signed and stamped warranty card ever till now.
(Perhaps in the 80s and 90s this was checked - I don't remember clearly)

SO, what is this bullscat by HP and others?
I think we need to put a strongly worded protest in newspapers and websites because if HP is really this much interested in protecting its brand value and customer experience then it should FIRST abolish all the non authorized brick and mortar shops (the ones which are not listed on their website)!

Also if someone can confirm whether he has bought stuff from a shop which is NOT listed on HP's website, but still HP honored the warranty.
This will really poke holes in HP's assault and perhaps even lead to law suit for discriminating against the e-tailers.
 
Guess what HP was offering with its laptops during Durga Puja ?

Myntra & BookMyShow gift coupons.

Talk about double standards.
 
Dear A, B, C ... companies.

Thanks for sharing concern about so called 'unauthorized' sellers. Now could you also publish a list of authorized sellers per city and keep it updated at least once per quarter.

Regards
Consumer...
 
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Honestly i dont think a lot of you guys understand how the model works.
Someone rightly pointed out that only predatory pricing aint the only problem but also the re-seller issue which is a 100% genuine issue.

A lot of people keep commenting abt how much margins or profits does the middle-man have. Let me tell you that for a middle-man it really doesn't matter whether i sell to a abc shopkeeper or to a amazon. I am making the same amount of money, period..

You guys are only talking from the point of view of a consumer, which is fair enough cause everyone loves the lowest price possible. But from a companies point of view, to make sure they maintain their brand image, their steps too are completely justified.

Some of the prices are so low that even if they directly purchase from the parent company and not a distributor, they still would be selling at a loss.
 
^
The point of focus should be predatory prices and unhealthy competition by some sellers - be it B&M or Online; not the mode of shopping . What is foolish is to pass a draconian law that 'We will not serve warranty to online sellers like A,B,C ...' .

Agree trade practices should be fair. But was a study ever conducted in past on pricing tactics of B&M ??

Classic example - Mineral water was being sold over M.R.P in cinema halls, eateries etc. After a long long time when objections kept on coming that practice stopped. BUT .... came back in a different way. Nowadays one can find same mineral water in special printed bottles at those joints. the MRP on that bottle is way higher than what is being sold outside.
Is that fair ??

So .. extortion is justified but passing on more discounts to consumer are unfair? Way to go to maintain image of the brand .

I, seriously, don't understand how this model works !!!
 
Classic example - Mineral water was being sold over M.R.P in cinema halls, eateries etc. After a long long time when objections kept on coming that practice stopped. BUT .... came back in a different way. Nowadays one can find same mineral water in special printed bottles at those joints. the MRP on that bottle is way higher than what is being sold outside.

Well i really like that,
Same thing is happening against us by increasing the mobile Data charges to 100% against this all Indians should protest by switching off internet on 31st .
Like this strong initiative should be done from consumers,according to Mahatma Gandhi Store keeper is for the consumer and not vice versa.
We should strongly protest against companies looting they think that they control customers. But we should prove otherwise.
 
Well i really like that,
Same thing is happening against us by increasing the mobile Data charges to 100% against this all Indians should protest by switching off internet on 31st .
Like this strong initiative should be done from consumers,according to Mahatma Gandhi Store keeper is for the consumer and not vice versa.
We should strongly protest against companies looting they think that they control customers. But we should prove otherwise.
Um...how exactly are you comparing mobile data charge with flipkart price?

The telecom prices had to buy 3G spectrum at a huge cost after the spectrum scam. They have taken huge loans to finance the cost of acquisition of spectrum. Telecom rates in India were the lowest anyway. So it is very normal that prices will go up rather than down.
 
^
Classic example - Mineral water was being sold over M.R.P in cinema halls, eateries etc. After a long long time when objections kept on coming that practice stopped. BUT .... came back in a different way. Nowadays one can find same mineral water in special printed bottles at those joints. the MRP on that bottle is way higher than what is being sold outside.
Is that fair ??

In this case, in addition to cinema hall, two more entities are sharing the loot. The manufacturer ( who must be charging higher for this Favor) and government ( higher taxes due to higher mrp) are new beneficiaries. The consumer is being looted as was the case earlier, but no one is objecting now.
 
So, this is my conversation with the local authorised for HP Printers. He's also a friend.

Me: I need to buy an HP 1005 Printer-Scanner
Shopkeeper: I don't have that in stock and even if I get it, I will not be able to give it to you cheaper than what is available on Snapdeal.
Me: But HP warns against Snapdeal about warranty and stuff.
Shopkeeper: As long as the guy who is selling it to you is an HP dealer, which that guy is and I know him, HP kya uska baap bhi tujhe warranty deny nahi kar sakta. Yeh notice sirf daraane ke liye diye jaate hain because branded stores ko ghaata ho raha hai. They never write anywhere that they will not honour the warranty if you buy it from Snapdeal/ Amazon. They just say that your warranty eligibility can be 'impacted'. Because, if it is coming from a proper channel, they cannot deny you warranty.
 
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