Market Feedback Reg: Hiding the price in the bill

[Fenix]

I've already replied to the gold argument but they don't seem to agree and keep bringing it up again & again.

Gold is valued against currency directly so how can anyone compare it with a GPU, which has a 2 or 3 or 5 years warranty and Gold does not have a successor like GPU have. Gold has standard measured in carat, so whom so ever is comparing Gold with GPU in this current scenario (call it pandemic or mining craze or scalping), is not in their right mind or are not thinking it through.

 

[DanteErodov]

I have voted for 'No' just so that potential newbies are aware of the prices that the product use to sell for. Regarding asking price being higher than billed price, it should be totally buyers call.

I remember when some months back Ryzen 7 2700 was available for 12k on Amazon but was around 17-18k at other places & later got increased to 17k-18k on Amazon too. Now you cannot expect a person who bought it from Amazon to sell this product for 10k now & another person who bought it from some other place to sell it for 15k-16k. Also you cannot expect all potential 2700 sellers to price it based upon that one Amazon sale. We must understand that there is an opportunity cost associated with these things. The person who bought it from Amazon at lower price did wait for the better opportunity be it by sheer luck or by waiting for a good deal. You cannot expect him to pass on that opportunity cost specially when things are a mess supply wise in the current market.

Deciding prices of used products is a very complex & individual thing. Some old product like motherboard of a Intel i5 2500 will have almost no value for most of us but might be of some value to people still rocking that processor. As such pricing these products should be left to market forces as controlling them will only result in less number of sale threads here.

 

[Trazer854]

I voted no because I'd prefer transparency when I'm purchasing from someone. If they're hiding the price in the post but sending it over pm I'm okay with that. Their reasoning could be that they got a good deal on it and just want lowballers to stay away.
You could be almost done with a deal but when you tell the buyer you got it at a cheaper price than they expected, they start negotiating again. Only current market price should affect that imo.

As for the selling at higher price shouldn't be allowed, I'm against it.
Take this mouse for example, during a sale or pricing error on Flipkart, many people got it for 5k. Now it's selling everywhere for 14k.
I missed out on it, now if someone sells the mouse they got then for 7k, I'd happily buy it. How does it matter what price they got it for? Im getting a good deal, so are they, win-win for both of us. I've done the same and I don't see anything wrong in that. It's anyone's right to feel like it's wrong but I don't think it should be banned.

 

[Crapmypants]

Yes, gold/property is generally an appreciating asset and electronics are depreciating assets but that doesn't mean they always have to follow that trajectory.
Consider the example of cars - they are, generally speaking, depreciating assets however some cars (for e.g. a 250 GTO) are very rare and thus appreciate in value.
Ultimately, the value of an item is determined by what someone is willing to pay for it and this can change over time.

 

[rdst_1]

Now, I will ask you a question. The value of Jewelry/Property never diminishes but an electronic equipment does. So do you think, is it fair to compare GPU (and I am being Particular) with Gold or Property ? And you are trying to compare an Item that has never been sold here.
Has anyone sold Gold or Property on TE ?

Are you serious?
Go look at the Great Depression when bread sold for more than gold. And look at the US 2008 recession when property rates plummeted like anything and the whole market crashed.

I only used the example of Gold because for some reason people are not able to understand the concept of appreciation of a product. GPUs have appreciated in price is all what I was trying to say. Are you saying that if something has appreciated in price then the seller shouldn't take the new price into account when pricing their product. I have a 97' Bullet which I can sell for double the amount it was purchased for. It is just like a GPU in other factors that you have mentioned i.e. it isn't Gold/Property. And it rides much worse than any of the current bikes available. But the market price for that has appreciated.
So I am not gonna sell it for anything less than the current market price, no matter what price I bought it for.

TLDR - GPUs have appreciated in price. And if people are willing to pay higher price for it, then no one should sell it for lower than current market price.

 

[Fenix]

Are you serious?
Go look at the Great Depression when bread sold for more than gold. And look at the US 2008 recession when property rates plummeted like anything and the whole market crashed.

I only used the example of Gold because for some reason people are not able to understand the concept of appreciation of a product. GPUs have appreciated in price is all what I was trying to say. Are you saying that if something has appreciated in price then the seller shouldn't take the new price into account when pricing their product. I have a 97' Bullet which I can sell for double the amount it was purchased for. It is just like a GPU in other factors that you have mentioned i.e. it isn't Gold/Property. And it rides much worse than any of the current bikes available. But the market price for that has appreciated.
So I am not gonna sell it for anything less than the current market price, no matter what price I bought it for.

TLDR - GPUs have appreciated in price. And if people are willing to pay higher price for it, then no one should sell it for lower than current market price.

Yes I am very much serious. That is why there is a voting system and I voted against selling an item on Tech Enclave for a price higher than what the seller bought it for. You took it personally I guess or are comparing it with items or things that are no where related. Recession and Great depression with what is happening. In the name of Pandemic, companies are making money. GPU's that no one was caring about, are being sold for almost double the price. Then there are miners riding the Ethereum wave, last but not the least, scalpers. Who will sell GPU/CPU/Consoles for higher price then the Retail Price.

You own a 97 bullet, its a collectible and collectibles sell at higher cost. An example, no one drinks in my family and my Dad used to get Scotch for his friends when they would come over. There are Scotch bottles over 40 years old and their value has appreciated so should I also compare that value with that of a GPU. Will a GPU be collectible like your Bullet, the answer is No. If it was me, I will never charge more and that is one of the reason why I did not pitch in for my friend who wanted to sell 1660 Super for 35k on TE, when he bought it for 21k.

We both can have our own opinions and principles. I don't know if you voted Yes or No but I will not hide the price on the bills and certainly will not overcharge. I don't feel that as right.

 

[rdst_1]

Yes I am very much serious. That is why there is a voting system and I voted against selling an item on Tech Enclave for a price higher than what the seller bought it for. You took it personally I guess or are comparing it with items or things that are no where related. Recession and Great depression with what is happening. In the name of Pandemic, companies are making money. GPU's that no one was caring about, are being sold for almost double the price. Then there are miners riding the Ethereum wave, last but not the least, scalpers. Who will sell GPU/CPU/Consoles for higher price then the Retail Price.

You own a 97 bullet, its a collectible and collectibles sell at higher cost. An example, no one drinks in my family and my Dad used to get Scotch for his friends when they would come over. There are Scotch bottles over 40 years old and their value has appreciated so should I also compare that value with that of a GPU. Will a GPU be collectible like your Bullet, the answer is No. If it was me, I will never charge more and that is one of the reason why I did not pitch in for my friend who wanted to sell 1660 Super for 35k on TE, when he bought it for 21k.

We both can have our own opinions and principles. I don't know if you voted Yes or No but I will not hide the price on the bills and certainly will not overcharge. I don't feel that as right.

I don't have a personal issue with anything apart from one thing.
If people can understand the concept of 'appreciation' for gold/property/collectibles, then why can't they understand the same for GPUs. It is all about supply and demand. Old vehicles are collectibles because of supply and demand. Hell, people are now paying lots of money for old consoles and even old PCs like the first MAC. It is all about supply and demand. Right now the demand for GPUs far outstrips the supply. And hence the higher prices.
As for hiding the price in invoice, I don't do that and neither do I support that. But I also don't support people coming to the sale thread and beating the seller for selling the product at a fair market price.

 

[Renegade]

So the real poll should have been, "Should the sellers be allowed to sell for price higher than what they bought for".

Our stand to that has always been, we don't do price policing. If we did, it would only be fair to not allow sellers to sell the product for less than the depreciated value of the product.

We expect the buyer to be aware of the value that they will place for the product in its current market price and current condition, both physical and its age. We also expect the buyer to exercise caution while buying a used product. The invoice has never been mandatory in sale threads and that has always been an informal exchange between the buyer and seller. If the seller is not wiling to disclose the buying price then you don't know what else is the seller not disclosing. However, if the seller is disclosing the price, they are not obligated to sell it for a price lower than what they bought for. Buyer can decide to buy or walk off based on all the information at hand.

The seller would price the product at a price point which has the highest chance of it getting sold. We see countless threads where the seller keeps on bumping the thread and reducing price or removes the sale item itself. We have always said TE is not an auction platform but it is actually a Dutch Auction in practice.

 

[y2s]

In my opinion - it would be good to have purchase prices in the public domain in FS threads. Not as a tool for price policing - just for price benchmarking in future sales. If I know product X was listed and sold for a certain amount z days ago - I would know for future sales that a fair price for the item as a buyer or seller should be within that ballpark. This would help remove all the riff-raff & unnecessary negotiations. I always make the effort to make public the buy price, expected sale price and actual sale price in all my FS threads.

I think having less information asymmetry on a forum is what helps create larger trust.

 

[roofrider]

While the position of TE on this has been made clear - Dutch auction - there's just something I want to add. Food for thought.

Over at OcUK, they have a "no profiteering" rule. No one can sell above what they bought it for regardless of the market. If someone bought a GPU at launch prices a few years back, they can sell it at that price today which might somewhat match the current condition, but in case it was bought last year for lower, then they are limited to that.

It's primarily meant to be a means for members to buy and sell their used stuff and resellers are not allowed since they are out to make a profit. If anyone is after a profit they are asked to sod off to eBay or worse, and are pretty strict when it comes to this. OcUK is bigger and maybe they have the resources to monitor and ensure adherence (mods are volunteers anyway). But it's something.

Their marketplace is called Members Market (I quite like the name, but I'm anything but suggesting we copy) and only those who are a year old and have 1K posts can access it. This is likely too high for us, but increasing the post count means people who just use the forums for the marketplace and never really participate anywhere else will be discouraged. Not suggesting we make these changes, but maybe for the future.