Forum Feedback Regarding the new GO rules.

[PhOeNiX]

@pheonix- Are thats what i said..take my replies in entirety...I said a GO can not start in one day so a dealer wil get time to reply of course, if you can provide at the price then why wil the member bother with the the Go..I gues we are of the same opinion after this reply?

lol , before i post anything ,there are 3-4 more posts , so what can i do

Lets take a look at a loophole I can find in the new rules. So I decide I want a GPU cheaper from Phoenix. Utilising the new rules, I message him that I can get the GPU he is selling for 5% lower from another source through a five person GO but that I would buy from him at 4% lower so that I don't need to go through the hassle of a GO. I could be outright lying and he can never verify.

Under the old rules, the situation wouldn't arise because I would not arrange a GO without an actual supplier.

Well you need to give a proper source right ? I ain't stupid you know :rofl: The same can be done before the rules were there

BTW as for the rules ,as i had said , it limits members wanting to profit from the GO without paying TE. I personally know a GO starter who reduced the prices in his GO (via PM) just to counter my prices , even though he had made no purchases yet of the product.

 

[Renegade]

Renegade, before we discuss on the reply, just a few words abt the hue and cry part. Ive given many points in the first few replies, you chose a select few, not my fault..

Secondly, though you didnt mention it, if you want to go like"this is my/our community you dont hav to interrupt in between", please do mention i wont interrupt in between..Promise

That aside,

i will edit this post for all the problems in few minutes..

I would be better if we can talk on a point by point basis rather than all issues in one para.

As for your 'secondly', go hang yourself for bringing that in between :bleh: Never even indicated that. Its not as if the rules have been etched in the golden book and cant be improved. In fact they add more responsibility for us, so we dont like them either.

Lets take a look at a loophole I can find in the new rules. So I decide I want a GPU cheaper from Phoenix. Utilising the new rules, I message him that I can get the GPU he is selling for 5% lower from another source through a five person GO but that I would buy from him at 4% lower so that I don't need to go through the hassle of a GO. I could be outright lying and he can never verify.

Under the old rules, the situation wouldn't arise because I would not arrange a GO without an actual supplier.

What are you talking about. It doesnt make sense. How can you use the new rules to do that? I think you are confusing with the suggestions made by other members. The new rules dont incorporate that in any way.

If the GO isnt even present then the dealer or we cant do anything about it.

 

[whatsinaname]

Well you need to give a proper source right ? I ain't stupid you know :rofl: The same can be done before the rules were there

BTW as for the rules ,as i had said , it limits members wanting to profit from the GO without paying TE. I personally know a GO starter who reduced the prices in his GO (via PM) just to counter my prices , even though he had made no purchases yet of the product.

See that is the thing. Of course you would want to check. The process of telling you/getting approval from the mods will tack on more time to already time consuming GOs.

If there are 5 GOs started a day, and 1 is a fraud, you report that fraud and the mods come and delete/close that thread.

Old Rules - Man hours spent = looking into one GO.

Under the new rules, every GO has to be looked into.

New Rules - Man hours spent = looking into all GOs

Just the extra hassle may turn some members with genuine deals off from the process.

Look, I have never started a GO, never bought anything in one. Have always bought from dealers. You may be perfectly within your right to say I have no idea what I am talking about. I am just commenting on what looks like unnecessary bureaucracy.

 

[Party Monger]

BTW as for the rules ,as i had said , it limits members wanting to profit from the GO without paying TE. I personally know a GO starter who reduced the prices in his GO (via PM) just to counter my prices , even though he had made no purchases yet of the product.

Well i dont know who you are talking abt, but lets just say that we cant say for sure the reason for the price drop..
Say a dealer promises me some thing at 1000, you are selling it here for 1200, i feel the prices are as low as it can go, so i say OK..but you mesg me saying you can get it for 900, and i call the same dealer and say when some one else can offer for 900 whay cant you? and he makes the price 900..then what? in that case the member is genuine..

My point being, if a member decides he wants to profit from a GO, then following things occur
1) We scrap the go just cause he isnt giving the profit to TE, thats stupid at best.
2) We go ahead, cause the members are still getting significantly better deal, and a happy member is a member for life..

3) WE think abt our poor dealer because he was offering in 1200, while others were giving for 800, and he was just making a profit of 50%..:lol:

4) In contrast, the dealer learns a lesson and reduces prices to 900, profit of 15% for him, and members and the GO creator all are happy..

 

[Party Monger]

I would be better if we can talk on a point by point basis rather than all issues in one para.

As for your 'secondly', go hang yourself for bringing that in between :bleh: Never even indicated that. Its not as if the rules have been etched in the golden book and cant be improved. In fact they add more responsibility for us, so we dont like them either.

What are you talking about. It doesnt make sense. How can you use the new rules to do that? I think you are confusing with the suggestions made by other members. The new rules dont incorporate that in any way.

If the GO isnt even present then the dealer or we cant do anything about it.

Hehe..sorry for that..but the hue and cry part knocked me off..

http://www.techenclave.com/947818-post19.html

For the points mentioned, with all the emo stuff out of it..

 

[PhOeNiX]

True. that is a vicious circle. But then why not reduce the price for the entire GO and for that person only ?

1) We scrap the go just cause he isnt giving the profit to TE, thats stupid at best.

Then why not allow us too get you the deals in the form of a GO instead of paying ? Is it because we are being honest that we are paying for teh same ?

 

[Renegade]

Dude everyone can still post the GOs that you want. We will intervene after they have been posted. We will decided if the price, in case of conflict between products which btw doesnt happen too fequently, is right or not to start a new thread.

It doesnt require any approval BEFORE posting.

This is a reactive measure. It wont be insulating the dealers and TE completely.

See that is the thing. Of course you would want to check. The process of telling you/getting approval from the mods will tack on more time to already time consuming GOs.

If there are 5 GOs started a day, and 1 is a fraud, you report that fraud and the mods come and delete/close that thread.

Old Rules - Man hours spent = looking into one GO.

Under the new rules, every GO has to be looked into.

New Rules - Man hours spent = looking into all GOs

Just the extra hassle may turn some members with genuine deals off from the process.

Look, I have never started a GO, never bought anything in one. Have always bought from dealers. You may be perfectly within your right to say I have no idea what I am talking about. I am just commenting on what looks like unnecessary bureaucracy.

 

[stalker]

since we'r talking about Dealers on TE here, i think its ok if i go slightly OT with an issue. there has to be some method to hold dealers responsible for commiting on delivery of ordered products.

for example a senior member here had made a significant payment for a product from a dealer here on TE. the dealer made him wait for almost 2 months(i think) bfore giving a refund coz he dint have the product in stock when he started the GO.

While i can understand that dealers might not be capable of holding ready stock for all items, they should still be made responsible, like setting a 1 week delivery time commitment. That way, if they cant deliver, they should be forced to provide a refund ASAP and also get a negative rating for having failed to have lived up to the delivery commitment.

 

[Naga]

I don't see any GO creator complaining here. As a member, I don't have any problems. If and when I arrange a GO, I'll still be okay with the new rules. What's the big deal? Dealer or otherwise, they're all members.

@sTALKEr, that's not such a bad idea.

 

[Party Monger]

Dude everyone can still post the GOs that you want.
rule number 1---> 1. Running GO for only one product per normal member allowed.

Errr which one is it..

And for the point you are making, i understand the intention behind the rules, but you always had the power to stop the GO's you felt were not proper and always could moderate them..

Secondly, the point you are trying to make with the rules is not getting satisfied, maybe you should put a 123agreement or and explanation to each rule..
@pheonix:- Remember, in the hypothetical case i mentioned, the difference between your prices and his are very high..im saying only in that case..
If its a very small difference, no one wil bother with the member's go..

 

[Aces170]

The bottom line being, getting hardware before the dealers came was a huge pain. Not only did we pay significantly higher, but getting the right components was an issue too.

So what if the dealers are getting some advantages, they are also paying a fee for the same. If a dealer abuses the system, then its another issue. Given a situation between a member GO's or dealers i would choose the dealers anyday.

Remember at the end of the day, it is us the member who decide the fate of the dealer, if you think he is unfair dont buy as simple as that. Life is much more simple right now compared to what it was in 2005 with member GO's

Edit: had to mention, in a member GO the member is doing us a favour, in a dealer deal we are doing a favour by buying the products, go figure....

 

[PhOeNiX]

While i can understand that dealers might not be capable of holding ready stock for all items, they should still be made responsible, like setting a 1 week delivery time commitment. That way, if they cant deliver, they should be forced to provide a refund ASAP and also get a negative rating for having failed to have lived up to the delivery commitment.

Personally , making it forced will be a bit of tough. I myself make sure i keep the guys updated for as much as i can , and give them a refund in case of some problem. 1 week in some cases is a bit less, e.g in case of some pre-orders etc.

But yes , a delivery commitment , in case the dealer acts irresponsibly shud be punished. I think that's why the Dealer ratings are there right ?

Well , now i must take leave , hope some good feedback comes out of this , and TE becomes a better place for everyone

HAPPY DIWALI TO ALL.

 

[greenhorn]

*If a member wants to start a GO , please inform those dealers who already deal in a similar product, along with the mods. If we can match those prices , or better them , then we will make the necessary changes in our thread , or at least clear our stock of the older items if needed.

*if we are unable to match the GO prices , then the member can create a GO according to the guidelines provided , and no dealer will try and sabotage the GO. Once teh GO is over , the dealers can make the changes accordingly.

.

I agree with this , but with one small change. the onus for this should be on the dealers. A member having to run around to get clearance from the dealers before starting a GO sounds quite unfriendly.As the number of dealers increase, this will become increasingly hard, and proving the same may be hard, especially if a dealer is busy and does not respond and end up bottlenecking the whole deal.

I'd prefer if the potential GO's remain as such for one week, during which a dealer can check and post availablit or willingness to source the same. no posts/silence on the matter should be assumed as approval, and one week later, the GO's start

 

[Renegade]

Errr which one is it..

And for the point you are making, i understand the intention behind the rules, but you always had the power to stop the GO's you felt were not proper and always could moderate them..

1 GO per member. Well how many GOs does a member want to start? That part is the rule as of now. Is that a problem?

Rest is guidelines which we expect you all to follow to make our job easier.

There is just one rule- 1 GO per member

Secondly, the point you are trying to make with the rules is not getting satisfied, maybe you should put a 123agreement or and explanation to each rule..

See everyone will have a different scenario as a concern. It is good that this thread was started. Will resolve all doubts as they come to mind.

 

[Party Monger]

The bottom line being, getting hardware before the dealers came was a huge pain. Not only did we pay significantly higher, but getting the right components was an issue too.

So what if the dealers are getting some advantages, they are also paying a fee for the same. If a dealer abuses the system, then its another issue. Given a situation between a member GO's or dealers i would choose the dealers anyday.

Remember at the end of the day, it is us the member who decide the fate of the dealer, if you think he is unfair dont buy as simple as that. Life is much more simple right now compared to what it was in 2005 with member GO's

Edit: had to mention, in a member GO the member is doing us a favour, in a dealer deal we are doing a favour by buying the products, go figure....

Absolutely..But they are keeping their margin arent they? You cannot deny that such products arent being charged at premium rates?

Secondly, the reason why favouring a dealer is not good are:-
1) The members arent motivated by profit, ideally they have nothing to gain except reps, So putting hurdles in their path is idiotic, cause for a person not getting anythin , there roadblocs are as good as saying dont post any go..

2) The dealers are motivated by profit(in most cases), so even if they hate you a lot, they wil provide you the hardware, as long as you are paying the right price..

3) No part of the dealers cake is being snatched, the members part is getting snatched ie. they will loose the motivation to make such GO's, thats why this discussion..

4) dont forget that these GO's also motivate our dealers to get better prices

 

[Naga]

@Party Monger, why not ask some one who organises GOs regularly to post his probs with the new rules and guidelines?

 

[Renegade]

Absolutely..But they are keeping their margin arent they? You cannot deny that such products arent being charged at premium rates?

Secondly, the reason why favouring a dealer is not good are:-

1) The members arent motivated by profit, ideally they have nothing to gain except reps, So putting hurdles in their path is idiotic, cause for a person not getting anythin , there roadblocs are as good as saying dont post any go..

Who gets to know if there is any profit involved or not? Would you rather have dealers creating ids and bypassing the system and have no accountability for an issue as and if it comes up?

 

[greenhorn]

1) The members arent motivated by profit, ideally they have nothing to gain except reps, So putting hurdles in their path is idiotic, cause for a person not getting anythin , there roadblocs are as good as saying dont post any go..

2) The dealers are motivated by profit(in most cases), so even if they hate you a lot, they wil provide you the hardware, as long as you are paying the right price..

thats one problem you seem to have missed. You can be sure that dealer GO's are based on a profit motive. On the other hand , new dealers might be tempted to be regular members and try to stay out of the whole dealer thingie. so they need not always be based on goodwill. I'd like to believe that all the member GO's were done for altruistic reasons, but I'm sure we've seen enough proof to the contrary. Thread crapping and competition between people starting GO's and what not.

Even if you are trying to do this GO for purely altruistic reasons , there still is a dealer( the guy you are buying from) who is still profiting from the sale. so the dealer still has an edge over the TE dealer in that he doesnt have to pay the fee, and the GO starter has to deal with the entire headache.

 

[Party Monger]

1 GO per member. Well how many GOs does a member want to start? That part is the rule as of now. Is that a problem?

Rest is guidelines which we expect you all to follow to make our job easier.

There is just one rule- 1 GO per member

See everyone will have a different scenario as a concern. It is good that this thread was started. Will resolve all doubts as they come to mind.

Err thats up to the member..isnt it..:S

@Party Monger, why not ask some one who organises GOs regularly to post his probs with the new rules and guidelines?

I understand..

Who gets to know if there is any profit involved or not? Would you rather have dealers creating ids and bypassing the system and have no accountability for an issue as and if it comes up?

Well thats the problem, and you are trying to limit it by making it one go per member..any way..Since i cannot suggest any better measure i'l leave it at that, hopefully my post helped you understand what the ill effects of the rules can be, if you already hadnt didnt know them..

 

[..:: Free Radical ::..]

I totally agree with Party Monger. Although I don't make many purchases on the forum, I believe in minimal control over pricing. The best deal will always win. Period.

I have no qualms if the deal is provided by either a reputed member or a reputed dealer.

The end user will only buy if he gets the best deal. Limiting the amount of GOs by a member will only limit competitive pricing and ultimately, the member may resort to buy locally.

As it is I feel there is a paucity of GOs and offers nowadays P). This would only exacerbate it.