repeater using wired connection for wireless network extension

[mjumrani]

What is Extension channel lower and upper?
Whenever I change the Channel on buffalo I get this option as well.

Should I keep buffalo (a powerful N router) on channel 1 or 11?
And vica versa for Netgear (weaker G-N150 router)

 

[blr_p]

I'll change the channels.
I have a LAN cable heading to my brother's PC at the other end of the house.

Will change Netgear to AP and connect his PC to another LAN port on Netgear.

With DHCP disabled I think it should work.

Yep

Since the signal from buffalo doesn't reach his room, I'll keep the SSID the same.

Is that fine?

Different SSIDs is better as clients will know which network they are on. You want the right clients on the appropriate network. You brother if he connects wirelessly will be on g.

 

[blr_p]

What is Extension channel lower and upper?

Where do you see that ?

Should I keep buffalo (a powerful N router) on channel 1 or 11?
And vica versa for Netgear (weaker G-N150 router)

Does not matter which channel they are on, what does matter is to keep them apart to reduce interference.

Do you have an android device or wifi pc to run inssider ? How many other wifi networks do you see in your area ? As you will now be using 2 channels instead of just one.

BTW have WPA2 authentication with AES encryption enabled on both routers for the best performance.

 

[mjumrani]

Where do you see that ?


Does not matter which channel they are on, what does matter is to keep them apart to reduce interference.

BTW have WPA2 authentication with AES encryption enabled on both routers for the best performance.

Do you have an android device or wifi pc to run inssider ? How busy is your wifi neighbourhood ?

I see it when I change the channel from auto to 11 on buffalo.

I'm using WEP. I do not know why WPA2 is not working properly. The wireless network keeps disconnecting

 

[blr_p]

I see it when I change the channel from auto to 11 on buffalo.

Use either one or eleven for channel.

I'm using WEP. I do not know why WPA2 is not working properly. The wireless network keeps disconnecting

WEP on the buffalo ? disconnecting from the buffalo ?

Stop all clients and connect them one by one to see if you can find which client is causing the problem. There could also be IP address conflicts. Assign a static IP to the netgear AP that is out of range of the DHCP address pool on the buffalo.

WEP adds a lot of overhead compared to WPA2+AES. Things will be slower with WEP. In fact this is another issue with bridging the two routers wirelessly, whether they actually support WPA2 in this configuration. Some do others do not and insist on WEP.

 

[mjumrani]

Use either one or eleven for channel.


WEP on the buffalo ? disconnecting from the buffalo ?

Stop all clients and connect them one by one to see if you can find which client is causing the problem. There could also be IP address conflicts. Assign a static IP to the netgear AP that is out of range of the DHCP address pool on the buffalo.

WEP adds a lot of overhead compared to WPA2+AES. Things will be slower with WEP. In fact this is another issue with bridging the two routers wirelessly, whether they actually support WPA2 in this configuration. Some do do not and insist on WEP.

Buffalo has the following options

And key renewal.
How does it work exactly?

And how do I access the behest router when it is working as AP??

 

[100khz]

i did this exact with airport extreme and express routers.
dont have exact idea how other routers work in this.
@blr_p
pls guide us.

instead of airport express can i use this TP Link (in Repeater mode) . This one has a Wan port. It is repeater though, not sure if i can repeat a wireless network with wan input from my Airport Extreme. I want to put one repeater on each floor.

Also, since you have done the same with Airport Express: could you comment on its range and if you can roam around your house swapping between networks from your airport extreme and express without any issues?

However attaching a wired AP off the LAN port of router 1 will do what you want. But you will be connecting to the LAN port of router 2 not its WAN port.

If Wired AP can achieve the same with putting input to its LAN port, which helps extend wireless network and does not create new network (like a repeater), i am fine with that.

I want to do this way since, on each floor, cables are there coming from my main apple router. So with those cables, i guess i will get best input for repeating my network, instead of catching scarcely available wireless network from my main router and repeating already low network strength by repeater.

You guys get my point, whats best alternative.

I will need to buy 2 such repeaters.

 

[blr_p]

Buffalo has the following options

Right, use WPA2 and AES only

Also set buffalo to n only and g only on the netgear.

And key renewal.
How does it work exactly?

Found this

Either leave it at the default or set it to 0 to disable it.

And how do I access the behest router when it is working as AP??

Wireless Access Point | DD-WRT wiki

 

[blr_p]

instead of airport express can i use this TP Link (in Repeater mode) . This one has a Wan port. It is repeater though, not sure if i can repeat a wireless network with wan input from my Airport Extreme. I want to put one repeater on each floor.

If you don't need the 3G facility there is a cheaper model that will do the same.

TP-LINK TL-WR702N 150Mbps Wireless N Nano Router

If you need N300 AP's then have to look at WA801ND & WA901ND. These are N300 instead of N150 like the wr702 or mr3020. Whether you need N300 depends on the clients accessing, if they are only mobile or your requirement is basic web browsing then N150 is good enough.

If Wired AP can achieve the same with putting input to its LAN port, which helps extend wireless network and does not create new network (like a repeater), i am fine with that.

I want to do this way since, on each floor, cables are there coming from my main apple router. So with those cables, i guess i will get best input for repeating my network, instead of catching scarcely available wireless network from my main router and repeating already low network strength by repeater.

You guys get my point, whats best alternative.

I will need to buy 2 such repeaters.

Wired AP since you already have the cables going there. Check out the user manuals for the products concerned to get a better idea. They have only 1 LAN port so that is where the connection will be made, wireless access only. If you want wired access to desktops as well on those floors then you need to add a switch in between apple router and the AP.

Try with one to get an idea how it is. That N150 one does quite well from reviews.

with 8 wifi and 3 wired devices at home + occasional guests pouring in my 2 story building of 15 by 60 feet dimensions each floor.. router placed in middle of both floors..

If AP is placed in the middle i think that N150 might just cover the entire floor (!).. with a radius of 30 feet from the centre.

1 dsl in bridge mode hooked to a 54 mbps wifi old netgear white router - this router further extends via lan to a switch (not gigabyte) and another same wifi netgear white router hooked to the primary netgear for my room..

so total 4 router including the dsl one from mtnl.. And i did this arrangement last week when i was getting constant drops on connection over wifi.. I just distributed the load. The system is much better and has not required a single reboot in last 3 days when there is a very heavy use in my house.. really 24X7 heavy usage.. sometime multiple youtube streaming happening,torrents, browsing, teamviewer meetings, IP phone calls (over VPN).. etc..

You already have 2 'g' netgear wgr614routers. Why don't you use those as wired AP's ?

 

[100khz]

If AP is placed in the middle i think that N150 might just cover the entire floor (!).. with a radius of 30 feet from the centre.

You already have 2 'g' netgear wgr614routers. Why don't you use those as wired AP's ?

Oh, i didn't know if i could use my existing netgear routers as AP. Cos when i use them, by putting wire in their LAN ports and disabling DHCP and bringing their IPs in the same series as of my main apple router, they make another wifi network instead of expanding the same apple network.

1. I want to do what pratik did with apple express (roaming network), but using cheaper gadgets


2. I want to also make a common network throughout the house, which my phone, ipad, laptop should automatically switch between when i move to different locations in house. Hence, always with proper signals.

3. And if possible, i want to use wires to repeat a signal rather than catching wireless signal and repeating it. (if possible)

Can i achieve all 3 conditions above, either with my existing hardware or buying new one?

 

[blr_p]

Oh, i didn't know if i could use my existing netgear routers as AP. Cos when i use them, by putting wire in their LAN ports and disabling DHCP and bringing their IPs in the same series as of my main apple router, they make another wifi network instead of expanding the same apple network.

Give the APs the same SSID then but put the AP's on different channels. Are your repeaters going to be in the same location on each floor, roughly central and on top of each other ?

When you move from one location to another the client will disconnect from the weaker signal and reconnect back to the stronger one. Its the same with pratik as well. The client won't even realise the difference, as it thinks the AP went away and then reappeared.

You will not be able to start a youtube video, then walk upstairs and downstairs and expect it to work seamlessly without a disconnect. If pratik can do this with his setup i would like to know more.

1. I want to do what pratik did with apple express (roaming network), but using cheaper gadgets

Reuse the netgears then as you did earlier. Those tp-links will not offer anything more than some throughput increase.

2. I want to also make a common network throughout the house, which my phone, ipad, laptop should automatically switch between when i move to different locations in house. Hence, always with proper signals.

This should have happened when you tried it with the netgears.

3. And if possible, i want to use wires to repeat a signal rather than catching wireless signal and repeating it. (if possible)

Can i achieve all 3 conditions above, either with my existing hardware or buying new one?

I think so and with your existing equipment.

The problem is the different and even similar terminology therefore confusing used by different vendors to achieve similar results.

What concerns me is the use of the word 'bridge' in one of pratik's links whilst connecting up the additional extremes via wire. This must be apples way of describing converting a router into an AP. I still find the connection via the WAN port for the AP interesting as the others say connect to the LAN but thats apple's way of doing it. Netgear however is different.



I've heard of wireless bridges (using repeaters ie air-air and air-wired as with a client bridge) but not wired bridges unless they dealt with 'bridging' two different subnets. Using wires to extend an existing wifi network is via AP's which is what you are doing with the netgears. There is no bridging taking place here but extending and its happening through wired APs hooked up to the base station ie your extreme. Its all the same network on the same subnet as you've already confirmed.

 

[100khz]

Give the APs the same SSID then but put the AP's on different channels. Are your repeaters going to be in the same location on each floor, roughly central and on top of each other ?

I will try to make the SSID of my apple router and netgear router same. Not sure if i can change the channels on netgear via its interface and alter its SSID to match apple's. Is this possible via netgear interface.. Will see.

If able to do the same, then will replicate the same on my other netgear router..

So i will have one apple, and 2 netgear APs... with same SSID but no different channels.. Should work.

 

[blr_p]

I will try to make the SSID of my apple router and netgear router same. Not sure if i can change the channels on netgear via its interface and alter its SSID to match apple's. Is this possible via netgear interface.. Will see.

If able to do the same, then will replicate the same on my other netgear router..

So i will have one apple, and 2 netgear APs... with same SSID but no different channels.. Should work.

click the graphic above for instructions.

You must change the channels otherwise the networks will interfere with each other. You can keep the same channel if the AP is positioned so its at the edge of either the apple or the other AP signal. This is why I asked where you will place the AP. I think you said everything is central.

You have channels 1, 6 and 11. Or you can use Auto and let the AP manage it.

Change the channel here.

 

[100khz]

click the graphic above for instructions.

You must change the channels otherwise the networks will interfere with each other. You can keep the same channel if the AP is positioned so its at the edge of either the apple or the other AP signal. This is why I asked where you will place the AP. I think you said everything is central.

You have channels 1, 6 and 11. Or you can use Auto and let the AP manage it.

ok, i tried it.. made the SSID same and got one common network. But in wifi settings of my android phone or ipad, it shows full signal. Which means its taking the signal from the router nearer to the device i.e. netgear but the signal bars on the device top display bar shows only 2 bars..(home screen top right/left signal strength) which means the signal is scarce hence coming from the apple router kept far away.. this is weird since, inside wifi settings page, i see full bars for this network.. home screen, only 2..

so, i made the ssid different and made 2 different networks to atleast get full bars for the netgear network. I wished to roam around in entire house without loosing either signal strength or changing networks.. which i am not able to achieve yet..

I wish there should be a protocol that makes the device choose the network source on same ssid networks from the best signal strength available - automatically.. like if i go to other room.. where there is an AP on same SSID.. but the signal from my main apple router is still there but low.. so my device should automatically judge.. and switch to AP from my apple router.. hence giving me full signal no matter where i am.. this is what i am trying to achieve..

so far, my device keeps hooked to apple router with weakest signal possible.. strangely, in the device wifi settings, it shows full signal for the same network (getting from AP).. i don't get it..

you got any idea?

 

[100khz]

sorry for duplicate post.. please ignore..

 

[blr_p]

Can you put inssider on your android device and tell us
- on floor with the extreme, what level is its signal and the one of the AP above.
- on floor with the netgear, what level is its signal and the one of the extreme below.

InSSIDer will also better identify which SSId you are on than the stock wifi settings on the device.

Basically how much difference is there between the two signals. How hard is the job for the client to switch since it seems your's are more sticky. This is necessarily the case as we told you to give good locations to the AP's, centre position is best for signal bla bla but that is coming back and biting you in this roaming case.

ok, i tried it.. made the SSID same and got one common network. But in wifi settings of my android phone or ipad, it shows full signal. Which means its taking the signal from the router nearer to the device i.e. netgear but the signal bars on the device top display bar shows only 2 bars..(home screen top right/left signal strength) which means the signal is scarce hence coming from the apple router kept far away.. this is weird since, inside wifi settings page, i see full bars for this network.. home screen, only 2..

How long does the client take to switch between AP's. Never ? you have to manually change.

What happens if you set both AP's on same channel. Any difference with roaming ?

Same SSID is necessary for roaming.

so, i made the ssid different and made 2 different networks to atleast get full bars for the netgear network. I wished to roam around in entire house without loosing either signal strength or changing networks.. which i am not able to achieve yet..

Once out of range you lose signal and have to change networks, there is no way around that.

What you want is that the change be seamless and preferably automated. A fast handoff whilst roaming.

I wish there should be a protocol that makes the device choose the network source on same ssid networks from the best signal strength available - automatically.. like if i go to other room.. where there is an AP on same SSID.. but the signal from my main apple router is still there but low.. so my device should automatically judge.. and switch to AP from my apple router.. hence giving me full signal no matter where i am.. this is what i am trying to achieve..

802.11 unlike cellular does not have any defined method or criteria when to do fast handoffs.

However if the router & client support 802.11r & 802.11k then fast roaming is possible. iOS 6 is supposed to have both. No iPad2 support only iPad3 onwards.

Your network topology is correct for what you want. Your situation is slightly more complex because it involves a moving client as opposed to a wireless one that remains more or less static.

What is necessary is that the client be intelligent enough to discard the signal once it drops below a certain level and opt for a better one. The intelligence therefore needs to be on the client end. I hear there are clients that have this functionality in them but they are few and rare. Check properties of wifi cards if there are any roaming options to set how agressively to switch in laptops.

Ideally the client should latch on to the best signal rather than first one heard.

you got any idea?

1. A client side utility that tracks the signal and automatically disconnects/reconnects at user-defined thresholds. This is where inssider will come in to tell you what levels are too low and where to switch. So you need an app for the android and the ipad. Some android apps to try: Wifi Roaming Fix, Best WIFI, WiFi Prioritizer etc from playstore. You will have to find equivalent for ipad if required.

2. Weakening the transmit signal strength of the apple router so there is less signal on the other floors and the client has no choice but to associate with the stronger signal. This will be tricky because then you might lose signal in other areas of the house that you may want.

 

[100khz]

Can you put inssider on your android device and tell us
- on floor with the extreme, what level is its signal and the one of the AP above.
- on floor with the netgear, what level is its signal and the one of the extreme below.

Will do that and revert.

This is necessarily the case as we told you to give good locations to the AP's, centre position is best for signal bla bla but that is coming back and biting you in this roaming case.

The AP is on the same floor where apple is but about 2 walls, 6ft above, 10ft away. So not on separate floors. I also think, since apple router is on stairs, it will make a diagonal reach to my devices via floor concrete as well. So, floor + 2 walls.

How long does the client take to switch between AP's. Never ? you have to manually change.

never automatically.. manually - i can't since network is same. If i switch off apple, i can switch to AP.

What happens if you set both AP's on same channel. Any difference with roaming ?

NO

Your situation is slightly more complex because it involves a moving client as opposed to a wireless one that remains more or less static.

yep, cos me & other family members wish to move with their gadgets.. but signal issues keep them from moving.. primarily with phablets, laptops..

I also believe an app or software should rather help us here. Or else, one can write an app.. My issue is also somewhat universal. We all need this.. With devices becomes wifi only. A strong wireless presence with good mobility possibilities is required. If an app can monitor signal strength and keep migrating to better signals, that will be wonderful..

We make android apps in my company.. will float this idea..

 

[blr_p]

The AP is on the same floor where apple is but about 2 walls, 6ft above, 10ft away. So not on separate floors. I also think, since apple router is on stairs, it will make a diagonal reach to my devices via floor concrete as well. So, floor + 2 walls.

Signal levels are not too far apart and the client will not switch automatically.

never automatically.. manually - i can't since network is same. If i switch off apple, i can switch to AP.

What if you walk to the ends of the house, is the switch more automatic.

yep, cos me & other family members wish to move with their gadgets.. but signal issues keep them from moving.. primarily with phablets, laptops..

I also believe an app or software should rather help us here. Or else, one can write an app.. My issue is also somewhat universal. We all need this.. With devices becomes wifi only. A strong wireless presence with good mobility possibilities is required. If an app can monitor signal strength and keep migrating to better signals, that will be wonderful..

Apps already exist. But you will have to use different SSIDs so they can distinguish between. You will have to install inssider on each device then walk to the point where you expect the switch and then note its signal level. Each device because sensitivity of each device is unique. It will be a hassle but once you get it working with a few it will become easier.

Your issue is universal, if you google roaming wifi many people ask the same. So far only enterprise routers exist that do this and cost and arm & a leg. They are mostly for Voip but they have fast switching plus the clients have to install proprietary extensions.

With widespread adoption of 802.11r & 802.11k this will get alleviated somewhat. But bear in mind those stds were finalised in 2008, in 2013 there are still no consumer devices or very few that support this functionality to date.

 

[blr_p]

yep, cos me & other family members wish to move with their gadgets.. but signal issues keep them from moving.. primarily with phablets, laptops..

Updates ?

 

[100khz]

Updates ?

nope, i have resorted to multiple networks right now. Will experiment later since i am in a bigger issue right now. For that i am gona open a new thread just now. But yes, i will optimize my house for AP, from the info discussed in this thread soon.