Forum Feedback Request to Dealers/Mods/Members!!

[Shripad]

I see several flaws in the above posts.

If suppose the way dinesh is handling the GO's amounts to fraud because the invoice does not show the actual amount that the member paid, and we are pushing him to register as a dealer because he might a making a small profit in the deal along with the dell guy and the whole deal looks shady, if he becomes a register dealer @TE, that will not turn the whole GO into a legitimate deal. If we talk about nothing illegal being allowed on TE, many a times we have seen GO's being arranged/ stuffs being imported from abroad and the value declared less to evade custom duty. That also can be termed as fraud.

We all know that everything is not black and white, everything is not followed by the book and its not possible to practice gandhigiri all the time. We also display double standards. If suppose a GO is going on and the seller is offering a killer deal, and a member/mod is interested in the deal, no questions are asked as to how the deal was arranged as long as everyone gets a good discount and no one gets cheated. All the members who purchased from the seller are happy and keep their mouth shut. Its only the members who are not part of the GO start to raise questions and doubt the intentions of the seller, all thinking for the "community" and betterment of TE, making sure that nothing is going wrong, all the policies are followed and everything goes according to rules and regulations, we tend to become the moral police. And after a member registers as a dealer, no questions are asked how stuff is imported/sold as long as everyone is happy ??

I don't want this to snowball again into a never ending controversy, just putting my 2 cents as everyone.

You missed the main point all together.

Even with Dinesh's case, no one had any problems with his prices, or how he gets his items. He might as well make a profit, we dont have any issue.

But he is doing this as a member GO. And you better not forget that the registered dealers are making profit. But they are also paying TE for the privileges.

How much?

http://www.techenclave.com/site-ann...ement-regarding-dealer-s-paradise-103799.html

That much they are paying because they want to make profit out of deals.

Thats the difference between member and dealer GO.

If a member plans to make profit. He better register as a dealer, as simple as that.

When we do community GO, its expected that all benefits to be passed onto members. This is why everyone raised query about making profit.

Anyway we are all aware of this as bottle stated in the closed thread and final decision will be passed onto the member in question. So just hold on and have some patience.

About legality of sourcing items. EPP, import, parallel import are all legal. As long as the dealer clarifies the warranty and sales terms clearly, everything goes.

 

[katmandude]

Every other dealer can then start off his own GO in Hot Deals rather than in Dealers paradise for which they r paying a monthly fee. I dont know why u r nt getting the diff between the "Dealers Paradise" & "Hot Deals/GO Section"..

Actually, I have been wanting to bring this up for a very long time. There is always a conflict of interest when you have both sections in the same forum ...i.e. "Dealers Paradise" and "GO's organized by Individuals" in the Hot deals section. Now, lets get the difference between the two sections.

Dealers Paradise ---> is a paid service wherein the dealers have to pay a monthly fee to TE which helps them in turn to keep their server running and the site up etc etc

GO's started by Individuals---> This is a free service and not a single rupee goes to TE.

Now, the issue raised in most of the posts here is whether this individual is a dealer or not....is he making profit or not. I am opening up a whole new can of worms here. Lets say that the individual is not a dealer at all is not making any profit at all...However, the fact still remains that even the individual is buying it from some dealer X and that dealer X is making a sale on TE (through the help of this member) without paying a single rupee to TE. Now, myself (a registered dealer on TE) is in competition with this dealer X. But do you see the unfair advantage that dealer X has against me. Dealer X doesn't have to pay single rupee to TE to make a sale on TE (cuz his sales go under the hot deals section) and plus he gets an employee (free of cost) to organize and manage his sale on TE (i.e. the individual who is organizing the GO). All in all, I'd say from any angle its better for any dealer to never become a registered dealer on TE and always catch hold of some member on TE and tell him that I can get him product "XYZ" for "Rs. 123" if he can get me a min of 10 orders.

Since we dealers are paying TE and that money is ultimately going to the betterment of TE, a registered dealer should get the first stab on organizing a GO before an individual organizes one with dealer "X" on his back.

My Suggestion to mods/admins is this ---> Before an Individual member wants to start a GO on TE, a PM should be sent to the registered dealer if any of them is willing to organize the same GO at the same price that the member is getting from his dealer "X". If a registered Dealer agrees then he should be given the first stab. If no registered dealer is ready for the same then the Individual may be allowed to start that GO.

Also, keep a check on the No. of dealers you allow to become registered dealers on TE and also monitor their performance and their GO's too...Don't allow every one who is ready to pay the fee to become a registered dealer on TE. As the saying goes "too many cooks spoil the broth"...too many dealers and too many GO threads just spoils the fun for everyone (for dealers and individual alike). Keep a fixed number of dealer (the number can be decided by the admins/mods) and if the popularity of TE is increasing and more dealers want to register then just hike up your monthly fees and see who wants to stay and who wants to leave. Giving entry to every tom dick and harry just sucks the whole fun of it. One of the main reasons why I have lost any motivation to organize any more GO's on [E].

I know this post is getting too long already....but I'd like to add one more thing. Please keep a check on dealers unnecessarily bumping their threads with posts like "1 gone to ABC", "2 gone to XYZ". "ABC your order was shipped out today", "only 2 more left" etc etc These posts concern no one except the individual buying and the dealer and if a dealer needs to convey this he can do so by sending a PM. Make strict rules as to when a dealer can bump his thread...eg. if a new product is added to the first post or if there has been a price drop or if the item was out of stock and is now back in stock or if he is answering to a query asked by an individual on the thread. Only posts that concern everyone in general should be allowed.

I guess thats it from me for now

 

[greenhorn]

^^^ not a bad idea. If they can source it for about the same amount, it will save us the trouble and both the dealers and TE will gain from it.

Any dealer willing to source XBOX 360 controllers for 1.4k? ( i know they can because my dealer can sell them for 1.35k )

 

[kkndka]

@KMD more dealers means better prices for the end users ... What does TE lose by making more ppl registered dealers? i agree with you abt the Individual GO vs Dealer GO issue...

 

[Supra]

@ KMD I agree to your points.

But u do have to agree that dealers are not quite aggressively pricing in TE. I might sound blunt but ur pricing of late has become quite high(remember the good old days where a 275-299$ 8800GTS 320MB u charged arnd 13k)..of cuz u might tell that was more of a promotion in the beginning plus u have to bear the TE fees as well...but still its the end user at last who has to pay more.Or is it the price that we have to pay still being a part of an enthusiast community.

Also I dont subscribe to your idea of asking dealer's first if they can start a GO. That will be like a protection mechanism and ya that will create a field day for the the dealers and ya as far as I know its nt like TE is depending on the fees collected frm the dealers to run themselves. Of course u might feel like you are nt getting what you paid for.

Anyway hope you dnt take this as any hard feeling against u or something.Its completely my view /// I had got lots nd lots of stuff frm u and look forward to more in future

 

[katmandude]

@KMD more dealers means better prices for the end users ... What does TE lose by making more ppl registered dealers? i agree with you abt the Individual GO vs Dealer GO issue...

for one it becomes a mad house....so many GO threads for the same product from multiple dealers. It becomes too confusing for the end user who ultimately just gives up and feels its better to just to go a local shop and buy rather than digging through so many threads. In a tech forum the sale goes to the guy who has his thread bumped....then it becomes a struggle amongst dealers as to who's thread gets bumped all the time....which in turn annoys other members who might not be here to buy anything but just to have healthy tech discussions. TE is a tech forum first and should remain that way....this is not a meat market where you want 100's of dealers shouting out their prices to you....you want other TE members here who come to have tech discussions to get annoyed by these 100's of dealers trying to push their products....all this inconvenience and for what? so that you can save 50 odd bucks by having 100's of dealers compete with each other? that is ridiculous...for that we already have sites like ebay, rediff, indiatimes etc who's main purpose is to be a meat market and which is where 100's of dealers come and compete with each other. I'm sure TE doesn't want to go in that direction. Their main focus should remain on being a tech forum first.

@ KMD I agree to your points.

But u do have to agree that dealers are not quite aggressively pricing in TE. I might sound blunt but ur pricing of late has become quite high(remember the good old days where a 275-299$ 8800GTS 320MB u charged arnd 13k)..of cuz u might tell that was more of a promotion in the beginning plus u have to bear the TE fees as well...but still its the end user at last who has to pay more.Or is it the price that we have to pay still being a part of an enthusiast community.

Also I dont subscribe to your idea of asking dealer's first if they can start a GO. That will be like a protection mechanism and ya that will create a field day for the the dealers and ya as far as I know its nt like TE is depending on the fees collected frm the dealers to run themselves. Of course u might feel like you are nt getting what you paid for.

Anyway hope you dnt take this as any hard feeling against u or something.Its completely my view /// I had got lots nd lots of stuff frm u and look forward to more in future

First off even in the beginning I could have never quoted a $299 graphic card for Rs. 13K...that would just be ridiculous...it won't even cover my actual shipping costs. Secondly do you remember the "good" old days when it used to take almost a month or even more for my items to come from US to India? From the "good" old days I have now come a long way to claim that I can get you the stuff within a weeks time. No one was ready to wait for month to save few bucks....so strategies have to be change and I have to adapt. Its not always about the lowest price, you need to find a balance to survive. I can promise the absolutely lowest price with the absolutely highest wait time...you think I am gonna have a sale with that strategy just because my price is the absolutely lowest...I'm afraid not.

Regarding the second point ---> read my previous post carefully....I mentioned that if you are getting a product "A" from a dealer "X" for "Rs. 123" and you think its good enough to start a GO then the registered dealers should be contacted first if they provide the same product "A" for Rs. 123". If not then the member should be allowed to start that GO. Why should the dealer "X" be allowed to have his sales on TE without registering on TE and paying the dealer fees on TE. If every member is allowed to have his GO's on behalf of dealer "X"...then to be honest I'd really like to be dealer "X" than be a registered dealer on TE.
I mean come on...how hard is it for me to catch hold of members on TE and just have all my GO's listed through them in the hot deals section for free instead of using the dealers paradise section. All I am trying to say here is that there is a big loop hole here and can be exploited easily (or maybe it already is). My suggestion above was to curb this loop hole. The issue here is fairness to all...dealers and members alike .....the fact whether TE is relying on the money from the dealers or not ...is completely irrelevant.

 

[thebanik]

I for 1, completely back KMD's thought, and dont see any negative thing out of it, ofcourse it shud be implemented like in a private section, where in a user starts a GO, which waits for being approved with maybe a wait period of 12-24 hrs, within which if a registered dealer says he can provide it at the same price then let him start a separate GO, or else if no dealer can provide the same rate then the user gets his GO thread approved and the thread becomes public.

PS : btw KMD, i can wait for my products for a month, wud that reduce the price??? hyeah: hyeah:

 

[BIKeINSTEIN]

But KMD, the latter is if Dealer 'X' wants to start a shop on TE.

The thing is, some peeps have been offered to do what you say but they didn't have the balls to do it because of the rep they had on TE and wouldn't have been able to carry it off on their own.
That was the kind of awareness and unity on TE then- TEites were feared/respected as no-nonsense peeps.

TE has grown larger with many peeps coming here just to leech info and use the market.
So many, who look at the web as a world of gullible fools ready for culling and want to make a quick buck and disappear will keep trying such stunts.
This is evident from the no. of so called GOs that have popped up every now and then in the past and by anyone and everyone.

This discussion is taking place to come up with a way to thwart the scamsters and only let the genuine GOs happen- which in turn helps the dealer section as well.

There are newbies who do GOs hoping to earn a quick buck and even some who do it to earn reps and popularity.
(having 300 odd spam posts doesn't make one a senior)

There was one such chap whose credibility was questioned- and was accused of setting up shop for some dealer.
The dealer, when notified of the same, had asked the guy to stop all sales, as he really wasn't in need of an alternate market or any recognition/promotion.
But that person did it on his own only to seek popularity.
Imagine someone spending 40-50K for purchasing stuff w/o confrming buyer's credinbility or getting paid in advance.
Noprizes for guessing who (and please don't name if you do.)

 

[Jasku]

But KMD, the latter is if Dealer 'X' wants to start a shop on TE.

The thing is, some peeps have been offered to do what you say but they didn't have the balls to do it because of the rep they had on TE and wouldn't have been able to carry it off on their own.
That was the kind of awareness and unity on TE then- TEites were feared/respected as no-nonsense peeps.

TE has grown larger with many peeps coming here just to leech info and use the market.
So many, who look at the web as a world of gullible fools ready for culling and want to make a quick buck and disappear will keep trying such stunts.
This is evident from the no. of so called GOs that have popped up every now and then in the past and by anyone and everyone.

This discussion is taking place to come up with a way to thwart the scamsters and only let the genuine GOs happen- which in turn helps the dealer section as well.

There are newbies who do GOs hoping to earn a quick buck and even some who do it to earn reps and popularity.
(having 300 odd spam posts doesn't make one a senior)

There was one such chap whose credibility was questioned- and was accused of setting up shop for some dealer.
The dealer, when notified of the same, had asked the guy to stop all sales, as he really wasn't in need of an alternate market or any recognition/promotion.
But that person did it on his own only to seek popularity.
Imagine someone spending 40-50K for purchasing stuff w/o confrming buyer's credinbility or getting paid in advance.
Noprizes for guessing who (and please don't name if you do.)

Bike ur rite I also came here specifically for KMD, but this place has so much more to offer apart from the 'Shopping' bit...it really has well read and hardcore enthusiasts, I have been to other leading magazine forums, but this is something else.

wats with the scamsters..pls tell us the names...coz I am new..and doing quite a bit of shopping thro the Market section..I dont wanna be cheated.

Pls tell us. Thanks

 

[ms_mahu]

I also agree to the point that the focus of the forum should remain tech discussions, and I hate when many market threads appear in "new post search" again and again.

 

[BIKeINSTEIN]

wats with the scamsters..pls tell us the names...coz I am new..and doing quite a bit of shopping thro the Market section..I dont wanna be cheated.
Pls tell us. Thanks

The statement has been made in general- for people who might have vested interests in starting GOs and maligning the term.
For shopping in market section, there is something called trader rating.
More the (and preferably all) positive deals, the more reliable the seller is usually- though someimes shit happens and that cannot be foretold.
Checking up on the profile and posts made by the seller can also lend some insight into the kind of person the seller is. :ashamed:
If some senior member/mod is ready to vouch for that member having known him/her or having met him/her at meets often- then you can be a lil more at ease.
Also seller should have no issues answering any queries, take nothing for granted for first-time deals, and finally trust your instincts. :cool2:
There are some stickies in the Market and Hot deals sections- you might find them helpful.

 

[Jasku]

The statement has been made in general- for people who might have vested interests in starting GOs and maligning the term.
For shopping in market section, there is something called trader rating.
More the (and preferably all) positive deals, the more reliable the seller is usually- though someimes shit happens and that cannot be foretold.
Checking up on the profile and posts made by the seller can also lend some insight into the kind of person the seller is. :ashamed:
If some senior member/mod is ready to vouch for that member having known him/her or having met him/her at meets often- then you can be a lil more at ease.
Also seller should have no issues answering any queries, take nothing for granted for first-time deals, and finally trust your instincts. :cool2:
There are some stickies in the Market and Hot deals sections- you might find them helpful.

Well Bikey, yes the rating, but some of the new guys starting Go's may not have ratings, and also we can ask the mods about each seller, that is not practical is it...

I guess we should have a 'Blacklist' wherein you add the names of the members who are known to have been fraudulent. But then again they would probably sign up with a different identity...But I think the list would be a good idea. So that everyone is aware!

 

[TheMask]

If we talk about nothing illegal being allowed on TE, many a times we have seen GO's being arranged/ stuffs being imported from abroad and the value declared less to evade custom duty. That also can be termed as fraud.

I dont think that has happened in a GO here. And what an individual does off TE is not relevant to discussion here.

If suppose a GO is going on and the seller is offering a killer deal, and a member/mod is interested in the deal, no questions are asked as to how the deal was arranged as long as everyone gets a good discount and no one gets cheated.

Though the mods/staff dont like to get involved or interfere in member GOs, they (GO) are constantly monitored to check if the deal is legit and real. And as you said yourself, as long as no one gets cheated (including TE) and everyone gets a FAT discount, why should any questions be asked, at all?

Take the successful XBox controller and the EP-630 GOs. And check if there was any misdeed in either of the GOs. You would get your answers.

Its only the members who are not part of the GO start to raise questions and doubt the intentions of the seller, all thinking for the "community" and betterment of TE, making sure that nothing is going wrong, all the policies are followed and everything goes according to rules and regulations, we tend to become the moral police.

The very same way members with genuine concerns / clarifications get termed as demon. LOL

And after a member registers as a dealer, no questions are asked how stuff is imported/sold as long as everyone is happy ??

Again, why should the questions (whatever they are) be asked when the registered dealer is taking responsibility to it? TE is a mere platform for selling and bridging the gap between members and dealers and in turn bringing in good offers to the members. If the registered dealer turns out to be a fraud, its very unfortunate and prompt action is taken too. So far, that need has not arisen and with the good faith we have in the member dealers here, I hope and pray that wouldn't happen in future too.

I don't want this to snowball again into a never ending controversy, just putting my 2 cents as everyone.

It is our duty to clarify our stance and make public the healthy arguments and discussions. Hence my reply.

 

[Supra]

thnx kmd fr the crystal clear explanation ,but do hv t option of cheaper shipping

 

[Shakensoul]

^Mask....agreed and understood As a TE member, its my duty to bring up whatever concerns me. Don't want to drag this on and on...

 

[katmandude]

PS : btw KMD, i can wait for my products for a month, wud that reduce the price??? hyeah: hyeah:

thnx kmd fr the crystal clear explanation ,but do hv t option of cheaper shipping

lol @ thebanik...you out of all the people should have learnt your lesson after the CPU fiasco that cheaper doesn't always mean better hyeah:

@Supra ---> When I first started I had a different logistics provider for shipping from US to India....their rates were almost half of what I am paying now. But everything comes at a cost. Forget the fact that their shipping was slow (which also adds to the headache of numerous phone calls to them to get after their life and also answering annoyed customers) ...in due course they lost 3 of my packages (worth more than a lakh) for which I never received any renumeration (you have to forgoe any insurance premium option to make it cheaper right? ). So, at the end of the day the cheapest option ended up costing a lot more in the long run.

The present logistics provider I have tied up with is more expensive than the previous one....but yeah they are much more effective too. They are still not as perfect as you would like them to be... (cuz if you want that then you gotta shell out even more) but from a price to performance ratio they are pretty darn good. That is what I have been trying to tell you guys that its not always about the cheapest price...the challenge is to find the right balance between good price and good service. I don't strive to be the dealer who can give you the cheapest price. I strive to be someone who can strike a "balance" between competitive pricing and good service.

 

[TheMask]

Since we dealers are paying TE and that money is ultimately going to the betterment of TE, a registered dealer should get the first stab on organizing a GO before an individual organizes one with dealer "X" on his back.

Off late, the phrase 'for the betterment of TE' has come to sound either sarcastic or clichéd. LOL

My Suggestion to mods/admins is this ---> Before an Individual member wants to start a GO on TE, a PM should be sent to the registered dealer if any of them is willing to organize the same GO at the same price that the member is getting from his dealer "X". If a registered Dealer agrees then he should be given the first stab. If no registered dealer is ready for the same then the Individual may be allowed to start that GO.

Not a bad idea, IMO. This way members looking to make a quick buck would think twice before coming out with the offer. It'll also keep the dealers in touch with the latest market prices and revise their offers as and when the need arises. Its a win / win situation for the members. Besides, it'll save time and money for members here, who sometimes, conduct GOs even when they have other more important things to tend to.

Also, instead of the dealer waiting for a PM from staff and/or a member waiting for staff approval to begin a GO, why not it all be in the open? Most GO threads start off with a IC. All dealers are very much aware of the prices being posted there. If, a dealer can organize a deal at the same or better price than mentioned in the IC, then he could post the same in that thread and start a GO to that effect. Why involve staff in it and waste time?

Please keep a check on dealers unnecessarily bumping their threads with posts like "1 gone to ABC", "2 gone to XYZ". "ABC your order was shipped out today", "only 2 more left" etc etc. These posts concern no one except the individual buying and the dealer and if a dealer needs to convey this he can do so by sending a PM. Make strict rules as to when a dealer can bump his thread...eg. if a new product is added to the first post or if there has been a price drop or if the item was out of stock and is now back in stock or if he is answering to a query asked by an individual on the thread. Only posts that concern everyone in general should be allowed.

Thats a good idea as well. As such, trivial updates may be restricted to the first post only.

Also I dont subscribe to your idea of asking dealer's first if they can start a GO. That will be like a protection mechanism and ya that will create a field day for the the dealers...

Well, if it (the idea of offering dealers preference over members) keeps members and dealers alike in check and in tune with the latest prices and best offers made available for members, then why not!

In a tech forum the sale goes to the guy who has his thread bumped....then it becomes a struggle amongst dealers as to who's thread gets bumped all the time....which in turn annoys other members who might not be here to buy anything but just to have healthy tech discussions. TE is a tech forum first and should remain that way....this is not a meat market where you want 100's of dealers shouting out their prices to you....

Their main focus should remain on being a tech forum first.

Perhaps exclusion of Market section threads/posts from New Posts should solve this. Then again, not all members would like the idea. Will check with admins if anything could be done about this. Like, members be given option in UserCP to select which sections to be included in New Posts.

As a TE member, its my duty to bring up whatever concerns me. Don't want to drag this on and on...

Yes! Your (and other members') suggestions are welcome. Why do I sense dreariness at the end of your post/ :huh:

 

[Shakensoul]

Yes! Your (and other members') suggestions are welcome. Why do I sense dreariness at the end of your post/ :huh:

I am a man of few words :bleh:

 

[thebanik]

I am a man of few words :bleh:

lol @ shaken, after making such long posts, hyeah: hyeah: , but yeah after meeting u, i think i wud agree with u, :hap2:

 

[Shakensoul]

lol @ shaken, after making such long posts, hyeah: hyeah: , but yeah after meeting u, i think i wud agree with u, :hap2:

If you look at my join date and my number of posts, you'll understand that I am truly a man of very few words, speaking only when I need to