Graphic Cards Shader Model 3.0 - Whats the Adv.

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Quad Master

Quad Master

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Hi Guys

This just came to my mind.

Latest Nvida 6600 , 6800 have this new Shader Model 3 Support
Where as ATi X800 Series have Shader Model 2 , but still it kicks the hell out of NVida in some tests and beats in 3D Marks.

Arent the new games having the shader madel 3.0 or whys that Ati even with
Shader Model 2.0 beating NVida.

Can someone please throw light on this.

Also wanted to ask does Ati X850 Series have SM3.0
 
Nope Quad, the X850 doesn't have SM 3.0. SM 3.0 is paticularly visible in games like Splincer Cell and you can clearly see that nVidia cards thrash ATi in SC:CT...

Otherwise it doesn't make much of a difference but when newer games that take full use of SM3 are released, the X8XX cards will have a tough time indeed.
 
anishcool said:
Nope Quad, the X850 doesn't have SM 3.0. SM 3.0 is paticularly visible in games like Splincer Cell and you can clearly see that nVidia cards thrash ATi in SC:CT...

Otherwise it doesn't make much of a difference but when newer games that take full use of SM3 are released, the X8XX cards will have a tough time indeed.
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X850XT PE is the fastest single card in Chaos Theory other than the newly released 7800GTX. The effects in chaos theory can be done in SM 2.0 as well. nvidia's pr dept paid ubisoft and thats why it decided to not do a shader model 2.0 path in the game inspite of SM 2.0 being the most common platform in the market. Whatta bunch of morons.
 
Well SM 3.0 has some amazing features such as displacement mapping, branching, HDR lightning most of which NV4x series cant handle as it is. G70 is a diff story with an awesome performance in HDR lightning, we yet have to see games using the other techs such as displacement mapping etc.
 
so you want to say that when games with SM3.0 are built the X800 series of cards
will be low on score with respect to 6600 & 6800 series.
 
I think it would affect the quality of the images more, as you wouldn't be able to see the new SM3.0 effects in the game.
But since games will use the SM3.0 capability of the 6800 and 6600 series of cards, thier FPS will drop, so in a way, in new sm3.0 games x800 series will perform better(at the cost of reduced image quality, ofcourse) :)
 
no quad actually what anish said isnt a true 1 to 1 comparison or a apples to apples comparison. If SM 3.0 is implemented the x800 based cards wont b able to process it and you might get a anomal in place. If there is a seperate path coded into the game like sm 2.0b or 2.0 then the card will use it since it detects it as compatible. :) Hope you got my point.
 
What if in future games prefer only SM3.0 then what will ati X800 cards do.
Or game designers will code SM2.0b & 2.0 instructions for Ati Users.

my main doubt
Will the game be completely unplayable or there will be just a bit of loss of quality.
 
well no. No game is coded for 2 codepath only.
Usually games have different codepaths for different cards or different shaders.
If you compare SM3.0 of NV4X series to X800XT then it dosent make a big idfference to gaming and wont make in the future too. NV4X lacks the horse power needed to use those features efficiently.
X800XTPE was the fastest card until X850XTPE was launched. It has top notch highe resolution performance and takes very little hit when AA and AF are enabled.
The brute power of the card is simply unimaginable. At stocks speeds on good system XTPE will score more than 6K in 3dmark05.
SCPT is actiually playable on that card with eye candy on.
 
^^ what funky said. Most games will have a no. of paths since game developers know that hi-end cards dont account for more than 5-10% (assumption) of the whole gamers database. So they have to take into account cards like gfx4mx, fx5200, hell even onboard. It's only when a person is a demanding gamer who wants all the effects on with aa and af at hi resolutions he needs to get the latest and the greatest.
 
X850 "XT"+"PE" give us a break will ya?I don't understand why respected people(and funky is very very respectable I might add for good measure) always fail to see that this card is pure clock pushing-something you can very well do with a good 6800U if u wish to.(people push out 7k+ 3dmarks in 3dmark'05 on it ,sometimes with air cooling)
At this moment Nvidia is better.ATi's 9800 series was fantastic but their score card after that is "just pass".
And all that crap that I hear here "Did Nvidia make another mistake?"WTF?They have a card,the 7800GTX, that is anything between 40-80% faster with aa+af(imp) and much better SM3.0 than previous generation NV4x parts.
What has ATi done till now?The situation is very similar to early'03 with the sides reversed.
My biases aside,ATi's recent driver efforts have been somewhat creditable esp. their efforts to improve performance of older cards (mainly coz they have lost the high-end already).
 
dude do you know why this person is asking this question?
It has nothing to do with 7800 series. Its fantastic series and so was NV4X.

He is asking this question bcoz he wants to buy Gigabyte X800XTPE of my brother. And he wanted to know what difference it will make compared it against 6800GT or 6600GT that he was planning.
So he comes here to ask his query. And i replied in that sense as i knew why he asked this here.

7800 series is doing SM3.0 much beter compared to 6800GT/Ultra. Its actiually playable now in SCPT. No question about it. but he is not comparing it against 7800GTX.
 
funkymonkey said:
dude do you know why this person is asking this question?
It has nothing to do with 7800 series. Its fantastic series and so was NV4X.

He is asking this question bcoz he wants to buy Gigabyte X800XTPE of my brother. And he wanted to know what difference it will make compared it against 6800GT or 6600GT that he was planning.
So he comes here to ask his query. And i replied in that sense as i knew why he asked this here.

7800 series is doing SM3.0 much beter compared to 6800GT/Ultra. Its actiually playable now in SCPT. No question about it. but he is not comparing it against 7800GTX.
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@quad: If you are planning to get that X800XT-PE, then go for it. Rest assured it will run way faster than what a 6800GT can do. Paper shader model 3 support of the NV4X series is of least importance.

@funky: Is the gigabyte card AGP or PCI-E?
 
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Its PCI express. One of the very few Gigabyte rolled out for PE.
They dont even advertise it now. It was one of those few that made their way to yahoo stores when it was launched. 1.6ns RAM.
And in terms of warranty they replace this card with X850XT now as they no longer have X800XT in production :P
 
Funky why did you do this bro.
I had a query and i did not ask this for the sake that i was intrested in ur bros X800XTPE.
But really wanted to know for knowledge.

Also i wanted the X800XTPE to be surprise but now that u have told everyone knows :(
I actually was not sure if i will be able to get that card , all depends on my GRE Scores.

Guys but i am really in love with that X800XTPE of his bros , so will be studying very hard for it , donno if after a few days will not be available at TE as my net accounts MB are finishing very fast , so not able to post much also.
 
hehe, oops.
Anyway, as promised it will be first offered to you bcoz you asked first and if not you then it will be posted here for sale.
And this is waiting until July end as by that time he will arrange for his new card and you guys know what its gona be right ? :P

And ya forget about this for a while. Study and get good score in GRE and then you can demand soemthing more from your parents :P
 
Nvidiots apart X800XT PE is a very good card, if you are getting at a good price get it blindly, and that too a Gigabyte. But Quad I suggest you wait for the R520 to debut, and then get the next generation cards, both Nvidia and ATI will have playable SM 3.0 cards by then. NV4x series if you are looking at the SM 3.0 perspective forget it, its a paper launch like Chaos has said ( he knows his stuff, been doing his PHD in 3d development if I am not wrong.) Also many coders in beyond3d forums also have said the same thing NV4x series dont have the HP to render most of the effects, that said if you are getting a Gigabyte 6800 ultra at the same price, or an BFG one go for that. G70 is an another matter,
 
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