So much for religious blessings

[BIKeINSTEIN]

ehh.. what would you say for carnivores? satan created them?

God created earth. God does not distinguish between humans and animals. He loves everyone the equal amount. Considering that an innocent life is being taken by the hands of a man to fulfill his carnal desires will certainly not be acceptable to God. Hence the prohibition of Non-veg foods at religious places.

Bluffy dada, but God knows how important carnivores are to maintaining a balance in the ecosystem.
So he made them, and poor them don't even have an option.
Man has an option to live off veggies but farming has developed over time.
In the jungle, will you be soswing seeds and veggies and starve till they grow and maybe die of hunger till they have grown or hunt the smallest animal at first sight??
I guess that's how our ancestors survived.

God's biggest and only mistake was creating humans as they know not where to stop.
We are a virus and the worst one to infect this ecosystem imho.
I still am a neanderthal- i have to disguise myself as one from the 21st century when in public. :rofl:

 

[stalker]

I don't go kill the chicken which is offered to me, nor do I uproot / cut the plants. I just go to a market and buy it. So IMHO, both are the same, I don't see carnal desires coming in here. We humans have surpassed other beings, so we take advantage of whatever living being, in whatever way possible. I don't see the difference in abusing a plant or an animal differently. Indiscriminately cutting trees for farmland is as bad as having broiler chicken which are genetically modified, IMO.

However, its a matter of opinion and belief, and each one has his own. I am presenting my own, and am open minded enough to listen to others'.

I thought carnal was used wrt sex and not non veg food. Correct me if I am wrong ?

google - define:carnal

[SIZE=-1]relating to the physical and especially sexual appetites; worldly or earthly; temporal; of or relating to the body or flesh [/SIZE]

 

[Bluffmaster]

As i said , everything is cool as long as its done to survive. I am also a Non-vegetarian , although I do not like another life being taken to feed me , the taste is just overwhelming. Then there are people who are very rigid in their religious beliefs and then there are people who are totally against having non-veg food , not having Non-veg food at religious places is certainly not a high price to pay in order to maintain the peace imo.

 

[Bluffmaster]

google - define:carnal
[SIZE=-1]relating to the physical and especially sexual appetites; worldly or earthly; temporal; of or relating to the body or flesh [/SIZE]

so can it be used wrt non veg food ?

 

[stalker]

depends

on whether you consider it to be an essential or non-essential to subsistence

 

[mallik]

Never did I say that I am in favor of eating non veg in religious places ! I just think its hypocritical. On one hand you say that non vegetarian food is not what is natural, and god wanted us to do, while on the other you sacrifice a goat / other animals to some deities.

And I don't agree to the fact that humans were not meant to have non veg food. Hell, man was a hunter before he was a farmer (although I have not experienced this, I believe in what the archaeologists have discovered - it could all change some day for that matter )!

Eating vegetarian food to avoid red meat etc still makes sense, not because God forbade non veg !

Edit - This thread has completely and fully gone OT !

 

[Systemic Anamoly]

sticking with the topic 140 die in stampede so??? do u know about rath yatra in puri? 100s of them die every year in stampedes but only a few of the dead make it to the news...
a simple quote

At least six people were killed at the annual Rath Yatra of Lord Jagannath in Puri on Friday. Gradually, this figure would go up. That is what happens - the actual figures are never known. The official figures never tally with the unofficial ones..

And 'God' is, and has been used, as a good means to escape from unanswerable questions

excuse me but i seem to find this very funny wat kind of unanswerable questions are you talking bout i have said it earlier as well noone listens or even tries to understand the real facts just because it isnt suitable to their ears... and then the questions are termed as "unanswerable questions"

I choose to question the existence of things I have not "encountered or confirmed"

he has given a excellent answer i have to admit we are living in a technical environment so oviously watever technology has encountered or confirmed will be accepted by the masses following it, if u ever switch over to the spiritual environment you will be bewildered by the encounters and confimations
i can give a small lead if you are able to learn bout muktabai u will be astonished for sure and i m talking bout indepth learning thats if u care bout knowing certain things and not complaining....

 

[saumilsingh]

Science teaches us to keep our minds open and ask 'why'

I thought Science was the "How?" and Religion was the "Why?".

so can it be used wrt non veg food ?

As long as you have sex with your food .

 

[blr_p]

BTW I am a pure veg by religion as well as choice.

Why I have posted is not because of crowd control, but ppl obsessive compulsive disorder to take their children to chaotic places, knowing very well the amount of discomfort it would cause.

Until this accident would you have said any different.

Personally i can't argue either for or against here as like you are veg, ppl believe going to a place of worship no matter where or how high is an active way of reaffirming one's faith.

I still think crowd control would have made this safer.

It's not for us to question the 'why' but to enable ppl to do what they want safely.

Hopefully this is a wake up call, things never change until ppl die

The numbers are truly scary but i guess not by Indian standards.

 

[amigoatul]

Offlate ive been waking up everyday to read abt a bunch of ppl getting killed due to either bomb blasts,fire accidents on trains and if that was not enough,now stampedes in a temple. Phew,wats next? If there's a God above,may be he shud give us a break!

 

[starchazer]

What about plants :tongue: - were they created by some different God :tongue: ? Or is it because they don't cry and can't show reactions as quickly as animals ? A tree also bleeds when you hack it with an axe. I know this is flame bait and OT, but can't resist the temptation !

Cheers !

Well you don't really need to cut a tree with an axe to eat an apple from it. Sooner or later the apple's gonna fall and rot unless someone can make good use of it.

Similar thing for crops, etc. You grow them, but if you don't cut them they'll just spoil and die. But by cutting the crops when they fully grow you allow new life to flourish.

Isnt bacteria, or microscopic insects life too, what abt their life taken ?

Actually, Jainism is quite strict in those regards (AFAIK). They respect all life on earth. That is why they cover their nose/mouth to keep the exhaling bacterias or whatever to themselves. They won't even step on grass, etc.

I know that's peace at its extreme, but no where else you'll find such a practice.

Finally back to topic, i think the thread starter is unnecesarrily mixing the tragedy with religion or god. A person can be religious, have deep devotion in god, but still die a tragic death. (Read: Gandhi)

Why I have posted is not because of crowd control, but ppl obsessive compulsive disorder to take their children to chaotic places, knowing very well the amount of discomfort it would cause. And then the religions say god exist in your heart then why the hell goto Himalayas to find him ?

Its also about faith and culture. At earlier times only few sadhu/sants would visit those places, but now it has to be crowded considering India's population. You cannot expect them to stop celebrating various festivals just because it creates huge discomfort. (of course every one has the right to participate in it or not.)

But many find comfort in that discomfort. And trust me India would lose its identity and charm the day it gets rid of all these discomforts. "i.e: mass gatherings and festivities; the culture".

 

[starchazer]

And I don't agree to the fact that humans were not meant to have non veg food. Hell, man was a hunter before he was a farmer (although I have not experienced this, I believe in what the archaeologists have discovered - it could all change some day for that matter )!

Arre that's why man was known as barbarian re. You gonna eat raw flesh just because we did in earlier times?

 

[BIKeINSTEIN]

I thought Science was the "How?" and Religion was the "Why?".

I doubt religion gives the right answer when asked "Why does the sun rise in the east?"
But to an ignorant but devoted(especially fanatic) follower of some religion, whatever reply the religious leaders provide will be the truth i think.
And "Where will the asteroid hit earth?" is also told by science afaik.
In general, it can be when, where, how, why, whatever?

excuse me but i seem to find this very funny wat kind of unanswerable questions are you talking bout i have said it earlier as well noone listens or even tries to understand the real facts just because it isnt suitable to their ears... and then the questions are termed as "unanswerable questions"

What do you think religious leaders/priests/pundits/parents in the earlier centuries claimed when asked "why the sun rose in the east?" or "Why are there stars in the sky?" or "why do women have menses?" or even when a kid asked "How was i born?"
The English had a stork flying in from the house of God iirc or something like that.
And i dunno the Indian version coz surprisingly i never asked that question? :O :lol:
Science answered some and is still exploring many more.
We have the Big Bang theory which i find somewhat acceptable but before that particle exploded, there has to be some space around it for all that matter to expand.
Where did that space come from? :huh:
How far does it spread out or is there a limit?
The universe is supposed to have a boundary- so what lies beyond it?
so on and so forth.
Unanswerable, inexplicable, etc etc etc...

Actually, Jainism is quite strict in those regards (AFAIK). They respect all life on earth.

Ya- except fellow humans.
The business community who make a killing with their trade practices to maximise profits/convenience/comfort, even flouting several rules in the process or twisting them to suit their interests. :lol:
No offence to any of my Jain, Maru, Gujju or Punju (or any other religion) friends from the business community.

Like i said earlier- God's biggest mistake we are- coz most ofus don't know the limit to anything, be it greed, glutonny, ...

 

[blr_p]

Finally back to topic, i think the thread starter is unnecesarrily mixing the tragedy with religion or god. A person can be religious, have deep devotion in god, but still die a tragic death. (Read: Gandhi)

or IOW stop blaming God for man made problems !

Some one panicked and all hell broke lose...

now if some random asteroid happend to burn through the atmosphere and proceeded to take em out with lethal precison...

i'd start to think otherwise.

 

[starchazer]

I doubt religion gives the right answer when asked "Why does the sun rise in the east?"
But to an ignorant but devoted(especially fanatic) follower of some religion, whatever reply the religious leaders provide will be the truth i think.
And "Where will the asteroid hit earth?" is also told by science afaik.
In general, it can be when, where, how, why, whatever?

What do you think religious leaders/priests/pundits/parents in the earlier centuries claimed when asked "why the sun rose in the east?" or "Why are there stars in the sky?" or "why do women have menses?" or even when a kid asked "How was i born?"
The English had a stork flying in from the house of God iirc or something like that.
And i dunno the Indian version coz surprisingly i never asked that question? :O :lol:
Science answered some and is still exploring many more.
We have the Big Bang theory which i find somewhat acceptable but before that particle exploded, there has to be some space around it for all that matter to expand.
Where did that space come from? :huh:
How far does it spread out or is there a limit?
The universe is supposed to have a boundary- so what lies beyond it?
so on and so forth.
Unanswerable, inexplicable, etc etc etc...

Actually, science, maths (and sex) is celebrated in dharmic religions.

"Why does the sun rise in the east" or "how was i born" are nothing. In Vedas, you'll find stuff from the age of the universe to the big bang theory. yes Vedas has mentioning of the bing bang theory and the expansion/contraction of universe to nuclear technology, to planetry movements to rotation revolution and evolution. And all of these were written millennia before such theories, etc were even conceived in current era. There are tons of books and translation of the Vedas.

Bhramagupta wrote Opening of the universe, but he was still a Hindu. That's the thing about Hinduism. You can be an atheist and still call yourself Hindu. That's why many don't consider Hinduism a religion, they call it a way of life.

 

[Gurpartap Singh]

I dont agree, only 20-30% people go for following purpose, others just mauj masti, so many wrong things happening these days @ such place. U may not agree but some XXXX cant live w/o non veg even on these places.

GOD is angry.

God is not angry. It's your karma, fruit of which you have to eat. Whoever agrees or disagrees with this doesn't matter.

 

[Ck Nish]

A lot of times, bad stuff happens to even the good and innocent as a way of absolving them of whatever latent sins or bad karma they possess.

 

[mallik]

Well you don't really need to cut a tree with an axe to eat an apple from it. Sooner or later the apple's gonna fall and rot unless someone can make good use of it.

Similar thing for crops, etc. You grow them, but if you don't cut them they'll just spoil and die. But by cutting the crops when they fully grow you allow new life to flourish.

Yeah, but how many times does modern man do that? (pick it off the ground) You kill a seed of an apple tree to have the fruit don't you (The seed goes into your dustbin and what not).

And where are all those crops grown. In clearings where there were trees previously. Man is truly selfish and will keep harvesting nature for his benefit. When will you start thinking of giving something back, instead of dwelling on what we should eat in religious places and what not ?

Arre that's why man was known as barbarian re. You gonna eat raw flesh just because we did in earlier times?

And who termed the primitive (can't find any other words - this is also biased) man barbarian. IMO he was more in sync with nature than us. What has all this development brought us ? Impending degeneration into nothingness ? This topic can be debated at length, and everyone will have a different POV. To each his own I say. Symbiosis in its true form is when we let the other organism truly coexist without hindering its growth. But we can't even think of that can we, nor can any other animal. Its after all survival of the fittest

Lets continue this debate sometime later shall we ?

Cheers !

~M

 

[starchazer]

Yeah, but how many times does modern man do that? (pick it off the ground) You kill a seed of an apple tree to have the fruit don't you (The seed goes into your dustbin and what not).

See, modern man does lot of shit. And modern man also may not completely follow his religion. (Hell most of the people don't even know basics of their religion.) I know few Jains who even consume non-veg stuff. So really, i wasn't alluding to what is practiced by the modern man. I really know that all those vegetable vendors on the street doesn't waits for stuff to naturally grow and ripe. (Instead they inject them with chemicals, which IMO is inhuman.)

And where are all those crops grown. In clearings where there were trees previously.

Not necessary.

And who termed the primitive (can't find any other words - this is also biased) man barbarian. IMO he was more in sync with nature than us. What has all this development brought us ? Impending degeneration into nothingness ? This topic can be debated at length, and everyone will have a different POV. To each his own I say. Symbiosis in its true form is when we let the other organism truly coexist without hindering its growth. But we can't even think of that can we, nor can any other animal. Its after all survival of the fittest

Lets continue this debate sometime later shall we ?

Cheers !

~M

Honestly, if a primitive man comes before you, You'll find him no less than those zombies from 28 days later.

J/k

Ya man, those issues needs to be worked on and ARE being worked on. We cannot expect to clean all the shit man did in one go. There's not even much awareness about these issues. Developing countries first have to deal with overpopulation, starvation, etc before thinking about envoirnment. I am in full agreement that man uses and abuses the nature to his benefits. Like Gandhi said "Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed." And man is obviously greedy.

And yes, we should take this biology class out and rather stick to the topic now.

PS. Funny thing is, when armstrong said those words "One step for man, one giant leap for mankind" women were up in arms for using the word "man and mankind" and not using something like "womankind" but now when we say "Man is greedy", "Man has abused nature" they'll never complain about it. hyeah:

 

[mallik]

This topic has turned into a debate on philosophy. Completely OT ! and no one paid attention to what I had written earlier !

Apart from greater crowd control, Indians have no experience when it comes to dealing with hazards at public places. There never are any hazard related drills. Those fire drills in US skills for example. I know its human mentality and aldosterone is the cause of all this panic, but if one is rehearsed in panic management (including the security and administration people), then everyone will be better equipped to handle the issues.

The stampede was a perfect example mob psychology, you see the person beside you running, and you start to run behind him as well. Thats how everyone acts. I don't know if its clever or foolish. If its a bomb, and you try to stay there and get the cause - you might get blown up ! However, stampede usually happens in closed confines when panic strikes someone. Thats why I was thinking of those fire drills for the same since childhood. Its a form of classical conditioning, which helps you cope with such high stress situations.

A class in psychology it is isn't it ?

Cheers !

~M