So much for religious blessings

[Lord Nemesis]

Well you don't really need to cut a tree with an axe to eat an apple from it. Sooner or later the apple's gonna fall and rot unless someone can make good use of it.

The fruit does not fall on the ground so man or animal can make good use of it by eating it. It falls on the ground so that the seeds inside can give birth to new trees.

Similar thing for crops, etc. You grow them, but if you don't cut them they'll just spoil and die. But by cutting the crops when they fully grow you allow new life to flourish.

Going by your analogy, when a man/animal kills another animal, it clears up some space in our ecosystem so that new life can flourish and take the place of the one that's lost.

I don't know why the heck people make so much fuss about what you eat. I don't think any God would mind taking a life he created as long as its done to preserve your own and not for the fun of it. Its the way nature works and the balance is maintained. Be it a vegetarian or a non-veg, both are taking lives of plants and animals for their own survival. As long as you do not over do it and destroy the balance, any sort of food should be fine. Its just a matter of preference or way of life. No need to chide another for their preference.

The only problem is that man is not like any other animal. Animals instinctively know about the balance of nature and abide by it. Man is the worst kind of animal as he processes superior knowledge and intelligence, but lacks in wisdom. He does not know when to stop and that's why he is prone to destroying the balance.

As for pilgrimages, I don't understand the logic at all, All religions have it. people visit holy places/perform rituals to wash away all their sins and carve for eternal peace in heaven, but run way at the slightest hint of death. As soon as they hear about a land slide rumor or in many cases something very trivial, they go berserk and in most cases its the small children who get trampled/crushed in such a stampede.

 

[blr_p]

PS. Funny thing is, when armstrong said those words "One step for man, one giant leap for mankind" women were up in arms for using the word "man and mankind" and not using something like "womankind" but now when we say "Man is greedy", "Man has abused nature" they'll never complain about it. hyeah:

Right, that kind of hypocrisy was so blatantly evident that thier whole more angry than feminist thing died out by the end of the 70s.

 

[starchazer]

The fruit does not fall on the ground so man or animal can make good use of it by eating it. It falls on the ground so that the seeds inside can give birth to new trees.

Yes, but eating that fruit ain't gonna kill the tree. That was my point.

Going by your analogy, when a man/animal kills another animal, it clears up some space in our ecosystem so that new life can flourish and take the place of the one that's lost.

Don't use the same whip for the mule and the horse.

All livings are interdependent. You can't expect humans, animals and plants to live on just friggin oxygen and carbon dioxide.

I don't know why the heck people make so much fuss about what you eat. I don't think any God would mind taking a life he created as long as its done to preserve your own and not for the fun of it. Its the way nature works and the balance is maintained. Be it a vegetarian or a non-veg, both are taking lives of plants and animals for their own survival. As long as you do not over do it and destroy the balance, any sort of food should be fine. Its just a matter of preference or way of life. No need to chide another for their preference.

I am sorry but not everyone voice their opinion based on religion. Not everyone opposes killing of an animal because their god/religion says so. Similarly not everyone kills an animal because "god wouldn't mind". It's just that sometimes we have to think by ourselves without predisposed mind, without following any doctrines, etc. And as much as anyone has the right to kill and eat a certain animal, no one should have any problem with those who oppose it.

The only problem is that man is not like any other animal. Animals instinctively know about the balance of nature and abide by it. Man is the worst kind of animal as he processes superior knowledge and intelligence, but lacks in wisdom. He does not know when to stop and that's why he is prone to destroying the balance.

No. Man IS better than an animal. Sure it breaks the rule of nature and is greedy. But at the end of the day man has come up with unlimited breakthroughs which not only helps humans but plants and animals aswell.

As for pilgrimages, I don't understand the logic at all, All religions have it. people visit holy places/perform rituals to wash away all their sins and carve for eternal peace in heaven, but run way at the slightest hint of death. As soon as they hear about a land slide rumor or in many cases something very trivial, they go berserk and in most cases its the small children who get trampled/crushed in such a stampede.

There's no hidden logic. Its plain fear. You cannot expect everyone out there to act like Buddha in such a situation. Rumour? OK But what if it IS true?

But yes, like mallik said there is a need for better crowd handling. People should be made aware of how to act in such situations.

 

[Party Monger]

Well, i eat chicken and i'l say this, just cause there's a market for chicken thats by they are bred...else they wouldn't have seen life..So in effect we are giving life..

When humans can die(consider this as god limiting his own creation.Why?? for his grand scheme of things..) why cant we kill the chickens?, we bred them..

I know there are loop holes in the theory,as with every other, but im not here to prove my theory in the first place..What im trying to say is there is a limit to logic..logic and reality don't necessarily meet every time..

Some things are meant to happen..neither you or me can prevent it..
Just take care that you don't end up doing something wrong..

And yea we have worse things to worry about..There are people out there who kill just for fun, pleasure or their stupid motives..Get them..
Getting back to God, Has anyone visited tirupati??
They gut way more visitors that anyoff these places,the difference is in management..Though they have actually got a bit bad in the last few years.
It still shows that improper management and NOT god was the reason of these deaths..

 

[Params7]

God created earth. God does not distinguish between humans and animals. He loves everyone the equal amount. Considering that an innocent life is being taken by the hands of a man to fulfill his carnal desires will certainly not be acceptable to God. Hence the prohibition of Non-veg foods at religious places.

Why did he make carnivore animals then?

 

[Aces170]

Hmm actually my OP was not that god is/was the reason behind the deaths. its the blind faith people have (I dont care abt that) but forcing their kids into that faith. Let them make the choice when they grow up whther they want to go or not, but why force such a faith, and risk their lives (taking your kids to himalyas in sub-human conditions is a risk according to me).

And what amazes me there was such a hoopla, and frenzy on deaths in bomb blast (dont give me the B$ that it could be prevented etc..) and this they will forget as an accident.

If any of these braindead temple trusts have some empathy they will disallow pilgrimage to children below a certain age...

@Starchaser, I am a Jain too dont eat non-veg, and the line stops there. I dont want to argue with Veg vs. non-veg as thats a personal choice...

 

[ronnie_gogs]

Well a better crowd control mechanism is needed in such places and thats all there is to it.....

Tirupati Temple is example of crowd control....Accident can happen there too, but I believe it will be controlled in a better way there as large groups are separated....

Stampedes happen in crowded places and there is all too it...
Stampedes in Mecca medina are example of what stampedes happening more frequently....

I dont agree, only 20-30% people go for following purpose, others just mauj masti, so many wrong things happening these days @ such place. U may not agree but some XXXX cant live w/o non veg even on these places.

GOD is angry.

Are u trying to justify the deaths of 140 people....cause this is what is looks to me. Well are u trying to say that they deserved it :no:.... Lets not insult a pilgrim who visits these places...all have their reasons.....

If its so hard to understand the reason let me give a personal experience
"My aunt visited Tirupati and offered her hair there for her daughter who the doctors said won't live more than 15 years....she is 18 now still well and thats what I call is faith"
Faith has its own place and lets not link food habits to a stampede killing 140 innocent people.... I frankly feel its just a plain insult to the dead who died in such a tragic accident....

 

[SidhuScorpion]

^ I havnt tried to justify anything, If I have faith thats why I disliked non veg na ?? Otherwise I w'd have ignored. Sorry for ma wrong choice of words, I quoted "religious blessings thread title" not "140 people deserved etc". That reallity U cant change.

 

[Argus]

Faith draws a lot of people and esp. the ones who believe without a question. Having a simple bent of mind, many of devotees are not as aware as the rest. Its high time the temple boards took some basic preventive measure against such stampedes/mishaps. Even a 2 min basic instruction session would go a long way in getting devotees mentally prepared.

 

[junkiedogg]

Do you have confirmed info that God is a vegan?

That is like asking do you have confirmed proof that God exists.

None of the religious scriptures were faxed/couriered from heaven/hell iirc.
....

That is true. All the scriptures were made by humans .. in some cases by authority figures( kings etc . in case of the Bible) to exercise more control over a section of the population.

Such is the state of mind in India- whether a kid or an adult. :cool2:

The grass is always greener on the other side eh? And its always shit here. Actually this is the case everywhere .. not only in India. There are religious fundamentalists .. smart people, idiots etc. everywhere .. its not limited to India. Just look at the Creationism/"Intelligent Design" argument in the US . Its plain crap.

Intelligent design movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I dont agree, only 20-30% people go for following purpose, others just mauj masti, so many wrong things happening these days @ such place. U may not agree but some XXXX cant live w/o non veg even on these places.

GOD is angry.

If God gets angry, exerts revenge, kills people for revenge, He cannot be God. Those traits are wholly human. If he is vulnerable to such vices how can He be God?

As for me, I am vegetarian by choice. And most of the people in my religion (Christian), esp in Kerala, LIVE on meat. I have seen how they kill the animals .. and have heard cries of chickens/cows etc. being slaughtered. Maybe I just love animals too much. I do not know. As for asking why God created carnivores, well, they are just a product of evolution. Their species branched off from some common mammal ancestor, and they adapted to living by killing prey. Its natural selection, ... Survival of the Fittest.

Of course, if you do not accept Evolution, and tend to believe in fairy tales, I can't help you. I do not eat meat simply because I do not think it is justified that an animal has to die just for me to eat, while there is no need for it and when I have other options.

I think of myself as an agnostic ( Agnosticism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ).
varying between Mild Agnosticism (Weak agnosticism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
"the view that the existence or nonexistence of God or gods is currently unknown but is not necessarily unknowable, therefore one will withhold judgment until/if more evidence is available."

and Apathetic agnosticism (Apatheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

"the view that there is no proof of either the existence or nonexistence of God or gods, but since any God or gods that may exist appear unconcerned for the universe or the welfare of its inhabitants, the question is largely academic anyway."

All Hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster!!:clap:
Flying Spaghetti Monster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[SharekhaN]

All you idiots go read Angels and Demons by Dan Brown.

 

[junkiedogg]

All you idiots go read Angels and Demons by Dan Brown.

Thats another crap novel. A load of pseudoscience and speculations presented as hard fact. Da Vinci Code was ok .. but frankly .. who cares .. it happened bloody 2000 years ago. If Jesus was married .. so be it ..

 

[blr_p]

I'm on the fence with all this religous stuff because....

the religous can't prove God exists.

and the agnostics can't prove that he does not, proving a negative is not easy anyway.

 

[mallik]

As for asking why God created carnivores, well, they are just a product of evolution. Their species branched off from some common mammal ancestor, and they adapted to living by killing prey. Its natural selection, ... Survival of the Fittest.

Of course, if you do not accept Evolution, and tend to believe in fairy tales, I can't help you. I do not eat meat simply because I do not think it is justified that an animal has to die just for me to eat, while there is no need for it and when I have other options.

Well I guess your knowledge of Biology is feeble :tongue: - even some Dinosaurs were carnivores. The carnivores evolved because if the herbivore population increased incessantly, then there would be a scarcity of plants, and ultimately there would be struggle amongst the animals for grass, the end result being the stronger would kill the weaker ones for survival. It is nature's / universe's way of balancing itself. Thats what my belief is anyway.

The thing that confounds me most is that why can't you see animals and plants both as organisms that get hurt. If you uproot a plant, its equivalent of killing an animal. Just because an animal is more expressive, you can't justify that eating plants is the natural way. Humans were naturally omnivores, if you want to verify, go check our evolution tree. However, with our superior intelligence we have now placed ourselves at the top of the food chain, which is not our natural place. We ideally should fall prey to a tiger or a lion but now we end up using their bones for medicine ! Thats how deadly humans have now become. If we don't mend our ways soon enough, we'll soon meet our doom. This debate of what to eat and what not to, is very trivial IMO as compared to the annihilation of life from the face of earth, at which mankind is hell bent.

Sorry for the biology lecture, but had to make my POV clear.

Cheers !

~M

 

[Ck Nish]

Faith draws a lot of people and esp. the ones who believe without a question. Having a simple bent of mind, many of devotees are not as aware as the rest. Its high time the temple boards took some basic preventive measure against such stampedes/mishaps. Even a 2 min basic instruction session would go a long way in getting devotees mentally prepared.

So, you're basically saying that religious people are stupid and need these things to be specifically explained to them? Don't go proving yourself wrong by being stupid yourself. Stampede's can happen anywhere - political rallies, sports events, even a busy street. If there's a crowd, it can happen. It's just basic human instinct to run not caring for anything else when a person's life is threatened.

 

[Argus]

Ah, so thats the first thing that came to your mind. I appreciate your honesty. Now read the post again and try to think of those devotees as fellow beings and you'll be a bit more closer

Faith can make any person go dumb as can love. Whats wrong with the aforementioned suggession if it leads to better awareness...... awareness that can be of practical use at any crowded place.

 

[SharekhaN]

This has been happening since a long time. Stampede is just as common with animals as it is with humans, so if it happens to them , why not us. Just because we are a bit civilised ?

Atheism will take its own sweet time. The reason I mentioned Angels and Demons ( a novel ) is not to go by it, but it gives a slight perspective in to what is really possible, Science and religion as two facets of a coin.

Sooner or Later, we will realise it is one and the same thing ( hopefully ). The biggest question , which way will it swing.

There was a reason for Man becoming intelligent, so whatever he does now is but expected, be it his sucess or his destruction.

 

[x86]

ha! so many guys are talking so many big things out here!

The explanation is very simple, there was no proper mechanism for crowd control et al.

Knowing it is the Shrvan month, was it too much to expect from the government? oh wait to expect the government to spent behind proper systematic facilities for temples would be blaspemous! They instead will subsidize the temple funds rather than putting up proper facilities.

Get to basics guys, all these big talks of god/science/existence shines among us few netizens, not among billions. For petes sake its going to be crowded in this month is what the government or administration knew instead no proper checks and balances were made.

Drop this macaulytic mindset of whenever anything crops up about god people starts to talk it created universe etc and talks all sorts of big words like creation/agnostic/aethist bla bla...Infact the very cosmic belief behind the month of Shrvan has more scientific base than these terms in its particular narrow worldspace... Its a simple failure of the administration, admit it!

 

[x86]

Hmm actually my OP was not that god is/was the reason behind the deaths. its the blind faith people have (I dont care abt that) but forcing their kids into that faith. Let them make the choice when they grow up whther they want to go or not, but why force such a faith, and risk their lives (taking your kids to himalyas in sub-human conditions is a risk according to me).

And what amazes me there was such a hoopla, and frenzy on deaths in bomb blast (dont give me the B$ that it could be prevented etc..) and this they will forget as an accident.

If any of these braindead temple trusts have some empathy they will disallow pilgrimage to children below a certain age...

@Starchaser, I am a Jain too dont eat non-veg, and the line stops there. I dont want to argue with Veg vs. non-veg as thats a personal choice...

dude...I guess forcing someones kid into faith is wrong but teaching them religious beliefs is definitely not wrong. Provided the iliteracy rate of India is high and god knows how many can teach proper religious value to their child, doesnt mean they should not do anything of such.

Blaming it on parents just because they are taking them to crowded places is imo wrong...else tomorrow you will have these same grown up elites running around the country shaking hands with the martially superior liberal/mordern western peoples [as per them] while looking down upon the religiously blockheaded indians and shaking hands with them [the mordern ones], without knowing the next day dinner these modern/liberal peoples are invited to the Vatican.

Get over the fact that the people who tried or introduced mordernism and liberal thinking in 18th and 19th century in societies, irrespective of these embedded in any religion in any other timeframe or not, are themselves not liberal/mordern from core yet. Lets not try to be too much 'like them' or surpass them; wont be good for the country. Literature not history testifies to it and thus lastly lets not imbibe moral relativism as a substitute to dharma, which we've been doing.

 

[blr_p]

lastly lets not imbibe moral relativism as a substitute to dharma, which we've been doing.

interesting you should say that from a hindu background, the recent pope is absolutely against it as well.