Suggest an Intel based Audio Production Rig. Pls do not recommend an AMD rig.

B

ballu

Disciple
Hi friends,

I have been going thru this forum for quite some time now and have actually learnt a lot by reading your suggestions and advices. However not being a techie, it does get a little confusing sometimes.

I have noticed that there is a certain bias towards AMD based rigs as they offer VFM as compared to an Intel, but most recommended configurations appear to be keeping in mind the gaming enthusiasts and not other types of users like me. Even the high end Intel based rigs that have been recommended in the forum have MoBos that support over-clocking etc and that often brings the cost up.

Noticing this I did a lot of reading/research to understand the two competing products, and I have come to a conclusion based on my personal requirements which primarily is for AUDIO RECORDING & PRODUCTION, mostly in stereo format and not multi-channel. I may also do some designing work using CorelDRAW/Photoshop, and a little bit of movie watching on a larger screen than that of a laptop. For most stuff I will continue to use my laptop.

My conclusion is that an INTEL CPU matches my requirement to the max as all Intel processors come SSE2 enabled. A SSE2 enabled processor, is a key requirement for running my audio production and supporting softwares and the compatibility is better with dedicated sound cards, no matter how low cost they are. Plus there are other factors that are important for me in sound recording/production.

So help me friends in deciding a good Intel based rig. I have tried to write down my requirements below and need your support to complete it.

Once again, please DO NOT recommend an AMD rig.

Thanks

Questions

Q: What is your budget?

30K (Max 35K)

(I have done some 1-0-1 chat with vendors and have been told that it's possible to get a decent rig at approx 30K)

Q: What is your existing hardware configuration (component name - component brand and model)

N/A as work on my HP laptop.

Q: Which hardware will you be keeping (component name - component brand and model)

N/A

Q: Which hardware component are you looking to buy (component name). If you have already decided on a configuration then please mention the (component brand and model) as well, this will help us in fine tuning your requirement.

CPU - Intel i5-750 or 760

I could have gone for a i5-6xx series and saved some money there too but those aren't available. I am open to going even lower if you can convince me to

MoBo - Preferred brand is MSI XXXX

(Open for suggestions)

GPU - Suggest a low cost one as I am not into gaming.

(For my software to run I need 32-bit video card and 16MB of VRAM

RAM - Corsair 2 X 2GB minimum or 8GB or more preferred if I choose to go for a 64bit OS

MONITOR - Would like a 20" monitor and not more. Require a 1,280x900 monitor resolution, but would certainly like to watch movies

SMPS - Suggest a good one without any wastage

CABINET - CM USP100 preferred

SOUND CARD - ASIO compatible sound card required > Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy 2*/ Audigy 2 Platinum

HDD - 500GB

(Already have an old Segate 250 GB HDD which I would prefer to use for my boot drive and want a new 500 GB HDD as my storage for recorded audio files)

OPTICAL DRIVE - Combodrive preferred, please recommend

MODEM - Do not know if I require it, but certainly would like to use net

Q: Is this going to be your final configuration or you would be adding/upgrading a component in near future. If yes then please mention when and which component
Most probably will not be upgrading it for the life time of the products unless something is drastically wrong.

Q: Where will you buy this hardware? (Online/City/TE*Dealer)
New Delhi - Nehru Place

Q: Would you consider buying a second hand hardware from the*TE*market

No

Q: What is your intended use for this PC/hardware

  1. Recording and production of Music (Most important)
  2. General use like Browsing, Desktop Processing, Watching HD movies

    Q: Do you have any brand preference or dislike? Please name them and the reason for your preference/dislike.
    Not really

    Q: If you will be playing games then which type of games will you be playing?
    May be some light weight strategy games

    Q: What is your preferred monitor resolution for gaming and normal usage

    Required a 1,280x900 monitor resolution, but would certainly like to watch movies

    Q: Are you looking to overclock?

    No. Never

    Q: Which operating system do you intend to use with this configuration?

    Windows XP 32bit may upgrade to Windows 7 64/32 bit
 
Components Description Price (INR)

Processor Sandy Bridge Core i-5 i 2300 9000

Motherboard Compatibe H-67 mobo 6000-6500

RAM Corsair 4GB 1333MHz 2700

HDD 500GB Seagate 7200.12 1800

GPU IGP -

Monitor Dell IN2020 6600

Cabinet CM Elite 310 1500

PSU/SMPS Gigabyte Superb 460 1950

Key Board Logitech SET - Optical Blk Mouse+ MMKB 700

Mouse NA -

ODD L.G./Samung/ SOny OEM SATA DVD-Writer 950

Speakers U would know better :p -

Total 31700

P.S: The Sandy Bridge mobos doesnt natively support the PCI slots. But most mobo manufacturer will include this via 3rd party chips.
 
ballu, a few things:

1. The audio subsystem is highly dependant on the operating system you choose to use. Windows 7 has a known DPC latency problem that affects all DAWs, so you're best advised to stick with XP. That has memory management issues and is not as stable as 7, so there's no free lunch.

2. I can't believe you are so adamant on using Intel, but stick with Creative soundcards for audio production. If the resampling doesn't kill your work the extremely low quality converters will. Do some research - I assume you will use analog interfacing between your hardware and the PC, so it makes sense to get the best quality converters possible. Honestly, recordings made on a Celeron using a pro card will sound 30x better than one made on an i7 rig with a Creative card, even though it'll take much, much longer to make. To wit, if you are crunching the budget, the soundcard is not the place to do it. Trust me, I've recorded with both AMD and Intel rigs and for project studio work the AMDs are just as good.

3. MSI. Why? If you were going Intel, I would point you to Intel's own boards. They're the only ones that actually make sense because of the cleaner PCI supply and the better, more stable clocking. MSI is (at best) a tier 2 manufacturer, and the problem with the tier 1 guys is that they optimise heavily for graphics, games and not for background processes on the PCI bus.

4. Consider using a firewire interface to gain freedom from all internal PCI hassles. This will jack your costs up quite a bit. PCI is decent enough for project studio, if you have a decent interface. Do check the DPC latency after installation, you're looking at a number below 100 peak and 70 average for decent performance (<5ms ASIO latency).

5. Monitor resolution - 1280 is not enough for displaying more than a few tracks and a couple of toolsets. I work at 2560x and still feel the need for a second monitor once in a while (Audition). Unless you do no software editing/effects, I would recommend a minimum desktop resolution of 1920x. Monitors are cheap enough so the difference will not be more than 2K. Remember in a DAW the monitor is actually your workbench, and has all the control surfaces as well.

To recap - if you have to scrounge, do so on the motherboard and CPU. Those depreciate the fastest and are the most easy to replace later. Don't compromise on the interface and control surfaces.

Good Luck.

btw SSE2 has been supported on AMD processors for six years now :). It is also supported on the Via Nano and C7 chips, so your understanding may be slightly behind the times. Also when it comes to pure Floating point performance AMD is almost as good as Intel, and at lower prices. Finally AMD's ownership cost is significantly lower. Most important of all, the money you save on the platform can be used to get a better interface. It's still your call but IME the AMD way is just as quick as the Intel way, but may sound a whole lot better. Which is why we do this in the first place....
 
Hi Cranky,

After a long time I get a response from a person who I believ understands what my needs are, and certainly understands it much better than I do.

My reasons for asking for an Intel based rig was due to the fact that I was unable to gather sufficient info about the products, and also because most answers were directed towards AMD keeping in mind the gamers POV, mostly at other forums.

Yes I accept that I have been lacking in my understanding of processors and other tools as I don't have a way to exchange notes with other professionals as I work alone creating stuff on "as per need" basis and I go more with my instincts rather than anything else.

Keeping in mind whatever you have suggested, may I request you to give me a decent config based on both INTEL and AMD processors, and also a decent pro Sound Card, a decent Mic, etc, and the place from where I can access them. If you choose to do so, just keep in mind that I will be working under certain constraints in a home environment, though I will try my best to eliminate exernal sounds etc. Also that I may not be comfortable investing too much towards professional quality equipment and may have to compromise a bit here or there keeping it at an amateur level.

By the way, I am comfortable using Cool Edit Pro, Audition and ACID Pro.

Every bit of your help would be appreciated.

Thanks
 
Hi guys,

this interests me too.. as i'm also s'what interested in getting my hands dirty in audio and DJ thing as hobby (hav only downloaded the ACID free and tried to play with it)

i think i need a good sound card along the way since i'm using the onboard Realtek ALC889/885, 7.1 channels, supporting 24bit/192kHz ??

my current config is s'what ok i suppose, CPU: AMD Athlon II x4 635, MSI 785G-E53, 2x2GB Kingston Ram, 2x500GB SATA Seagate, 600W CoolerMaster PSU, Hyper 212+ CPU Cooler, nVidia 9800GT 1GB housed in CoolerMaster Elite 370 case. Monitor: 20" LED LG

powered by Windows XP professional 32bit.

(Edit: nVidia 9800GT is not needed as the onboard Ati4200 should be quite ok for audio productions)

i think i need good headphones, any suggestions?

Thanks

p.s.: forgot that i used Audition also s'time back just to make 5.1 channel songs from normal 2 channels and hav a taste of it on my 5.1 speakers :p
 
I'm not going to suggest motherboard or processor models. I believe you will get pretty much everything you need to make a decision on those yourself, one of the factors is obviously cost.

The other two are efficiency and parallelism. You are looking for the highest possible IPC and Floating-point performance. Intel has a slender advantage over AMD, but this is also offset by total platform cost. Obviously Sandy Bridge changes a lot of that, though cost is still high.

Efficiency essentially has two effects on a system - latency and execution times. If you are planning on running lots of tracks with lots of effects in software, a higher IPC platform will provide a smoother experience. Latency is a whole other ballgame, and a high latency system may be close to impossible to work on because the system does not even keep time well. Generally one of the key influencers is the operating system and the driver environment, but there are variations in latency between platforms. There have been some posts on the SOS forums on latency and how to keep it manageable (not possible to totally eliminate), look those up. It requires optimisation of both software and hardware.

There are also techniques like submixing that help with lots of effects, and I use it extensively for my mixes. I am able to produce excellent results on even a old dual-core AMD and I prefer the snappy low latency performance of a 690G/XP platform to the ostensibly quicker (but more laggy - think naturally aspirated engines versus a turbocharger) new platforms.

Then there is parallelism - more cores essentially makes multitasking much easier, and audio applications are almost always multithreaded nowadays. A six-core will usually be quicker. Remember a typical audio app interfaces with the system's core components (much like Photoshop) but also needs super low latency access to external hardware - and is thus much more demanding than typical CPU-intensive applications.

So there you have it. A six-core 1090T or a higher end i5 CPU will pretty much do anything you desire from an audio perspective, both will do it differently. You can choose a suitable motherboard basis what the forums recommend. You will get lots of help. Remember that the latest is usually not the greatest, as for production you need to be on tried and tested platforms. Sandy bridge is fine, but you don't know what latency numbers P or H67 will deliver. The x58 sucks, and the last really good chipset from Intel for pro audio users was the 965. Not that I recommend it mind you - the current H55 boards are unknown to me too. On the AMD side look for the GeForce 8300 boards for the absolute best latency numbers, but the feature set is not so great (only 3 SATA ports being a deal-killer). The guys who have model numbers at their fingertips, this is their cue

As to interface - I use a Delta 66 for most of my recordings. I do also have a E-mu 1212 but even though it has a much better A/D section it has worse drivers and comes with an inbuilt 10ms lag which is very annoying to resync for. Both cost around the same, the E-mu is not available in India. The ESI Juli@ is another sub-10K card with solid credentials.

None of these entry-level cards have microphone preamps inbuilt. The cheapest one that does is the Delta 410 from m-Audio, and the sound quality is not as great as the 66. You can use an Audiobuddy, or like me, invest in a small portable mixer with two or so mic inputs and a couple of line inputs. I've recorded a full band with a 8-channel Behringer (no drums) and it worked out fine. I guess the combination of preamp/mixer/interface will boil down to your budget, and how many channels you want to record.

Mics - I use the cheapest I can find because all I do is demos. A couple of Shure PG mics would not be amiss. For guitar you should use a DI box like the Audio buddy, or run the effects unit in amp sim mode and feed the output directly to the mixer. I still find micing the amp gets the best tone - I use a cheap little Ahuja condenser microphone for this task and it sounds perfect.

All of the audio stuff is normally available at pro audio stores. Shalu music in Mumbai, Pro Musicals in Chennai etc are some names. Yellow Pages should help you out. I estimate you should be putting aside between 20 and 30K for the audio hardware alone. The rest of your budget can then be spent on the PC part of the rig.

Good Luck. Let me know if you have any questions.
 
hmm... 20-30k for audio hardware alone... i suppose m-audio midi keyboard is also needed along the way...

any pro audio store names in my location Delhi/Noida ? (as i see ur location is also same)

cranky said:
All of the audio stuff is normally available at pro audio stores. Shalu music in Mumbai, Pro Musicals in Chennai etc are some names. Yellow Pages should help you out. I estimate you should be putting aside between 20 and 30K for the audio hardware alone.
Click to expand...
just saw Delta 1010LT for 14.1K... features looks good to grab :) any comments?

Thanks
 
1010LT is also a very versatile card, you should have no issues with it well into your recording career. The DAC/ADC aren't of the highest possible quality, but for recording a lot of channels together there's not much else out there with this kind of flexibility.

I am absolutely new to Delhi and have no clue about shops that sell this kind of stuff here, sorry. It's just been three weeks and I don't have my car or a need to buy right now :p
 
no issues... hope Delhi is treating u well - the ppl & the cold.. :p

since i mentioned that i'm trying to get my hands dirty in audio line... i was reading here about keyboard
Even if you can't play piano at all, get a keyboard with a decent modwheel and some faders, you won't regret it. If you do buy a controller keyboard, make sure that the mod wheel is a separate controller and not spring loaded, worse is a combination pitch bend/mod wheel.
Click to expand...

can u tell what type of keyboard models m-audio / ... available in India which fits the description mentioned here?

if i'm reading wrong things then also let me know.... as i haven't gone too far... :D

thanks
 
m-Audio doesn't make keyboards, just the MIDI controller. They're useless without a PC or a synth.

Get a cheap little Casio or Yamaha with a MIDI port if you really are keen on expanding your scope of work. I use a DGX300 (maybe you don't need something that pricey).

I think mediahome.in has m-Audio controllers listed. Back when I was looking the cheapest was around 5K.
 
If your serious about audio, get a Mac. No two ways about it. The Mac Mini fits your 35k budget very well.

Check bajaao.com for your MIDI/Audio Interface needs.

List out more clearly what sort of production your into.
 
Hi cranky & Anish,

err yeah.. i was also thinking of m-audio with 49 keys - didn't knew they're called midi controller :p

Anish, actually i'm interested in learning DJ & Mixing and become like Anish Sood :D (not in Goa ofcourse) ... but cost of DJ console etc is out of reach, so learning to do some mixes to start with (using free Acid pro)... and later maybe churn out good quality mixes :)

off-topic: did u guys do any short term course? if yes then from where or any place u recommend?

thanks
 
^ You don't need hardware to start learning how to DJ. Traktor is great for getting your basics right and a LOT of pro DJs are using Traktor + MIDI controllers in clubs nowadays as well.

As for courses, Traktor is pretty easy to pick up as far as mixing is concerned, Youtube is your best guide. As far as track selection and flow goes, nothing can match club experience. If you spend enough time clubbing as a dancer on the dancefloor you'll find it very easy to pick the right music as well.. :)
 
well... i had installed Virtual DJ 6 but then i saw in youtube various videos like of DJ Shortee & others, scratching on Vinyl. so thought either have to get the hardware or have to take up some DJ course to learn the things...

and for Music Mixing/production using Acid pro/ Ableton Live, do u suggest any course?

on hardware part, do you think using pen-tablet would be better than mouse for loop mixing in Acid pro/ Live ?

thanks
 
Pen tablet won't help much.. Get a MIDI controller like the Native Instruments Kontrol X1 for proper control.

As for courses, checkout SAE for more info but I doubt they have short term courses.
 
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