Tejpal charged with rape of woman journalist

blr_p

Well-Known Member
Skilled
Most important sentence...

If proven guilty, Tejpal can be sentenced for more than seven years of imprisonment

This is just a chargesheet. Let's wait for the judgement.
 

blkrb0t

It's Nothing Personal
Skilled
is it possible to prove conscious intercourse as rape ?
I guess you meant consensual. And yes, it is possible to prove such a thing, but with great difficulty. Though the chances of that happening are vastly exaggerated. Not many are willing to be termed as a rape victim and face social backlash. Even many rape victims themselves don't register a complain for this exact reason.

You can read more about that here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape
 

blr_p

Well-Known Member
Skilled
Eh ?

What happened here was sexual assault. Does India have any legislation that defines it. I think its a grey area as i can't recall if anyone has been successfully charged with it.

So the prosecution wants to charge for rape. If they fail does he walk ? if they succeed he can appeal.
 

pradeep200417

Shunya
Adept
I guess you meant consensual. And yes, it is possible to prove such a thing, but with great difficulty. Though the chances of that happening are vastly exaggerated. Not many are willing to be termed as a rape victim and face social backlash. Even many rape victims themselves don't register a complain for this exact reason.

You can read more about that here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape
Yes this is a misuse.
Reminds me of misuse of section 498A. If anyone remembers Suhaib Ilyasi (India's Most Wanted), he was charged with this.
http://www.498a.org/498aexplained.htm

Your wife/daughter-in-law who's demands are not met can make a written false complaint of dowry harassment to a nearby police station. The husband, his old parents and relatives are immediately arrested without sufficient investigation and put behind bars on a non-bailable terms. Even if the complaint is false, you shall be presumed guilty until you prove that you are innocent.

498a can only be invoked by wife/daughter-in-law or her relative. Most cases where Sec 498A is invoked turn out to be false (as repeatedly accepted by High Courts and Supreme Court in India) as they are mere blackmail attempts by the wife (or her close relatives) when faced with a strained marriage. In most cases 498a complaint is followed by the demand of huge amount of money (extortion) to settle the case out of the court. This section is non-bailable(you have to appear in court and get bail from the judge), non-compoundable (complaint can't be withdrawn) and cognizable (register and investigate the complaint, although in practice most of the time arrest happens before investigation). There have been countless instances where, without any investigation, the police has arrested elderly parents, unmarried sisters, pregnant sister-in-laws and even 3 year old children. In these cases unsuspecting family of husband has to go through a lot of mental torture and harassment by the corrupt Indian legal system. A typical case goes on for years (5-7 years is typical) and the conviction rate is about 2% only. Some accused parents, sisters and even husbands have committed suicide after time in jail.
 

sharktale1212

Well-Known Member
Adept
Yes this is a misuse.
Reminds me of misuse of section 498A. If anyone remembers Suhaib Ilyasi (India's Most Wanted), he was charged with this.
http://www.498a.org/498aexplained.htm

Your wife/daughter-in-law who's demands are not met can make a written false complaint of dowry harassment to a nearby police station. The husband, his old parents and relatives are immediately arrested without sufficient investigation and put behind bars on a non-bailable terms. Even if the complaint is false, you shall be presumed guilty until you prove that you are innocent.

498a can only be invoked by wife/daughter-in-law or her relative. Most cases where Sec 498A is invoked turn out to be false (as repeatedly accepted by High Courts and Supreme Court in India) as they are mere blackmail attempts by the wife (or her close relatives) when faced with a strained marriage. In most cases 498a complaint is followed by the demand of huge amount of money (extortion) to settle the case out of the court. This section is non-bailable(you have to appear in court and get bail from the judge), non-compoundable (complaint can't be withdrawn) and cognizable (register and investigate the complaint, although in practice most of the time arrest happens before investigation). There have been countless instances where, without any investigation, the police has arrested elderly parents, unmarried sisters, pregnant sister-in-laws and even 3 year old children. In these cases unsuspecting family of husband has to go through a lot of mental torture and harassment by the corrupt Indian legal system. A typical case goes on for years (5-7 years is typical) and the conviction rate is about 2% only. Some accused parents, sisters and even husbands have committed suicide after time in jail.
I am not entirely sure but I guess there are two reasons - a. India's lack of harsh laws on lying while on stand. People tend to indict themselves but get away with it. b. The way this specific law puts burden of proof on the accused not the accuser (turning innocent until proven guilty on its head).

It recently happened with a colleague who was slapped with 498A. He had married a girl from another religion, even got his religion and name changed (though not legally). When girl's parents found out, they wanted a divorce. They emotionally blackmailed the girl into filing a complain. Poor guy spent 10 days in jail and then was warned by HR (they were worried about local papers carrying news saying he was xx company employee). It was after some cajoling that the guy finally agreed to divorce. Girls parents asked to close the case but police dint agree - being the pillar of justice they wanted 1 lakh as proof of girl's parents not being pressured into submission (its the religion yo! they said in hushed voices).
@blr_p : Do not antagonise girls family, thats how :)
 

blr_p

Well-Known Member
Skilled
@blr_p : Do not antagonise girls family, thats how :)
That's not a defense at all, its a surrender. Defense is have your own lawyer.

Cops don't register a complaint unless there is just cause. Their job is to not be biased and treat both as suspect until the facts are established. That is if they are doing their job.

I suspect there is more to this than meets the eye. How the heck do you show dowry harrasment to begin with.
 
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sharktale1212

Well-Known Member
Adept
That's not a defense at all, its a surrender.

Cops don't register a complaint unless there is just cause. Their job is to not be biased and treat both as suspect until the facts are established. That is if they are doing their job.

I suspect there is more to this than meets the eye.
I guess you must be talking hypothetical cause police and doing their jobs never exist on the same lines :p
That said, I think you are referring to Tejpal's case rather than the law itself. Again I am not authority on the law but are there different sections for "attempted rape" and rape? Though there is a law on sexual harassment from what I can read here:
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/tarun-tejpal-tehelka-rape-case-chargesheet-file/1/343883.html
 

blr_p

Well-Known Member
Skilled
- There are competent cops out there. In India cops are overburdened, under resourced and we can't increase their numbers because the govt sees them as a cost center and not a generator of revenue. Cops are not allowed to do their jobs. When they do their jobs they get pulled up by politicians and when they cannot solve a problem due to constraints we blame them.

- not referring to tejpal, just 498a.

- attempted rape is still not rape just as attempted murder isn't murder. right ?

The reason this confusion even exists is because of the grey area that sexual assault covers. This is defined in other countries where women have been working in larger numbers for much longer. We're still breaking new ground. Whether this case becomes the landmark case that defines those contours & limits remains to be seen.
 
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sharktale1212

Well-Known Member
Adept
- There are competent cops out there. In India cops are overburdened, under resourced and we can't increase their numbers because the govt sees them as a cost center and not a generator of revenue. Cops are not allowed to do their jobs. When they do their jobs they get pulled up by politicians and when they cannot solve a problem due to constraints we blame them.

- not referring to tejpal, just 498a.

- attempted rape is still not rape just as attempted murder isn't murder. right ?

The reason this confusion even exists is because of the grey area that sexual assault covers. This is defined in other countries where women have been working in larger numbers for much longer. We're still breaking new ground. Whether this case becomes the landmark case that defines those contours & limits remains to be seen.
Ok, if u were talking about my colleagues predicament, there was no just case. How did it happen? Maybe because of the religion. Still that is complete OT, my bad.

On topic about Tejpal's case, from the news article 354/354A seem to be the law pertaining sexual harassment. I am not sure if the language quoted here is correct but it is rather broad:
http://www.indiankanoon.org/doc/203036/[DOUBLEPOST=1392825150][/DOUBLEPOST]
sharktale1212, one such case took a life:

'Harassed' by police and in-laws, man kills self

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india...-in-laws-man-kills-self/article1-1182257.aspx
My colleague also got really desperate, we had to give character witness statements to the police to stop harassing him.
 
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blkrb0t

It's Nothing Personal
Skilled
Tarun Tejpal's Press Statement of 18.2.2014

"If conclusive proof was needed of the political vendetta that has been unleashed against me, under the guise of a sexual molestation investigation, it has been emphatically provided today. In a blatant attempt at twisting and concealing the facts, the Goa police while filing a 3000 page highly spurious charge sheet, has not presented or handed over the most crucial piece of evidence in this case, the CCTV footage of the incident

In my first and only press note of November 22nd 2013 I had urged, "the police to obtain, examine and release the CCTV footage so that the accurate version of events stands clearly revealed". I said this at a time, from Delhi, when I had neither accessed nor seen the footage. But since I was the man on the spot I knew the truth of what had happened.

It is violative of due process, to not make all collected evidence available to the accused at the time of filing the charge sheet. In fact, receipt of the footage is what we have been impatiently waiting for since the last three months. This duplicity is in keeping with the sinister and motivated political vendetta that is being pursued.

I have been in jail since November 30th simply because the goa police, clearly acting under the orders of their political bosses, have refused to release this crucial footage of the relevant days, 7th and 8th November. This entire case hinges on the 130 and 45 seconds (as per the charge sheet) of contested time which can be brought to light via the CCTV footage. The goa police know their fabricated case will collapse the moment the footage is revealed and compared with the 'testimony' of the alleged victim, on the basis of which the Goa police filed it's FIR under draconian provisions.

As it were, I viewed the relevant footage of both days whilst being 'held' in police custody and the footage clearly validates me. The fact is most of the officers in the crime branch know there is no case, and have said as much to me. Even so the IO has been pursuing an agenda spelt out for her by her political masters, totally violating the principle of police neutrality.

I'm afraid what we are witnessing here is an early sign of the inherent fascism of the right wing that will target its detractors in the most sinister and underhand ways, using all the government machinery at its disposal. This is a warning shot across the bows of all liberals and opponents of communal politics. It's a crying shame that a major party that is bidding to rule the great pluralism that is India is imbued with no tolerance of dissenters and critics, of whom I certainly am one."

The one who is accused is also given a voice to be heard, finally. I'm still skeptical about his statement though, since CCTV footage cannot be demanded in every sexual assault case. Moreover, the sexual assault seems to have taken place in an elevator where there are no cameras. Plus there is ample proof of messages and emails exchanged with the victim. Maybe there is truth to both the sides. Tejpal molested the victim, but the case was also politicised heavily to settle scores.
 

JMP

Well-Known Member
Disciple
India has given way too much leeway to women in the name of empowerment. In all legal matters the law states that the accused is innocent until proven guilty....but suddenly when it comes to matter of women - dowry,rape, heck even sexual harassment this principle goes out the window and the man is assumed to be guilty until proven innocent. The woman's word is enough...@SC - are you crazy ?

Crazy Indian Laws :
Man -> Man - "**** you!" - no case
Man -> Woman - "**** you!" - sexual harassment
Woman -> Man - Slap - suck it up dude/he must have done something wrong.
Man -> Woman - Slap - sexual assault.
Extramarital Affair - Man can be charged under IPC - Woman cannot be charged.

The poor uneducated woman whom these laws were actually made to protect is still suffering because of the corruption of cops and lawyers - they demand money which she does not have, no FIR, no case - no justice. On the other hand - the educated, well to do woman intending on blackmailing husband/inlaws is having a gala time. If these laws have to have any meaning - the poor and uneducated woman who is not having financial independence should get the benefit of it.

Coming to tarun tejpal - if that asshole has gone against the wishes of the woman and forced himself on her - he should be charged with sexual assault and do time for it. This is not a case of rape though....
daugther's friend seriously ? Come On!!! You could not find any one else ? - find someone of your own age or if you are desperate for sex - get a hooker. Have some morality....
 
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