30-40k Under 40k phone with good camera and battery

[mallik]

Questions:-
1. Budget?
A: INR 40k and below

2. Preferred display size, type and resolution?
A: Around 6 inch, OLED

3. Preferred operating system? (Android (with version), iOS, Windows Phone etc).
A: Android

4. Preferred connectivity options?
A: 5g with wireless calling

5. Do you have any brand preference or dislike? Please name them.
A: No preference. Phone should be good for at least 2-3 years

6. What is your intended use for this phone (internet, camera, multimedia, mails etc.)?
A: Camera, mails, internet

7. Single SIM/ Dual SIM?
A: No preference

8. New or Used? Online or Offline?
A: New. Don’t mind buying online

9. Any other requirements?
A: Need good battery backup, wireless calling

10. If you have already considered a phone, then please mention the model
A: Asus Zenfone 8z

Need to help a friend buy a phone who will be using it mainly for calls WhatsApp, and routine functions. Not much gaming, if any. The camera should be good (I love pixel, but battery sucks), and so should the battery life. Wi-Fi calling and 5G also needed

Thanks for the help folks!

 

[TinTinSnowy]

I heard that S20 FE 5G model had significant wifi throttling. Is that true?

 

[OMEGA44-XT]

I heard that S20 FE 5G model had significant wifi throttling. Is that true?

I get 250+ Mbps, goes up to full 300Mbps intermittently on WiFi 6 (internet is 300Mbps).

 

[TinTinSnowy]

I get 250+ Mbps, goes up to full 300Mbps intermittently on WiFi 6 (internet is 300Mbps).

That is fine. There is significant throttling for many. https://broadbandforum.co/threads/m...from-amazon-india-september-2021-unit.211016/

 

[blr_p]

I get 250+ Mbps, goes up to full 300Mbps intermittently on WiFi 6 (internet is 300Mbps).

What link speed do you see with 2.4Ghz 'n' with channel width of 40Mhz ?

With the Netgear R7000, i'm unable to get beyond 192Mb/s (varies between 144-192 Mb/s) but my laptop connects at 300Mb/s

Things are better at 5Ghz 'n' and 'ac both S20FE and laptop link speeds match

5 Ghz 'n' 40Mhz channel displays 400 Mb/s link speed on both

5 Ghz 'ac' 80Mhz channel displays 866Mb/s link speed on both. This amazes me for a phone !!!

The one place Sammy could have cheaped out on is wireless networking but turns out the S20FE like the rest of the S20 series supports Wifi 6. FE's Wifi is just as capable as the S20Ultra and even S21Ultra

Why can't i get a link speed of 300Mb/s at 2.4 Ghz 'n' on the S20FE ? the laptop can handle it.

Laptop is 3x3 MIMO, S20FE is 2x2MIMO. Maybe that explains the lower 2.4Ghz speed but it does not explain the same 5GHz speed for both.



And for any one else reading this. Link speed and actual speed are not the same thing. Actual speed as in how fast things come over is much lower.

Will post graphs later of wifi speed not internet speed

That is fine. There is significant throttling for many. https://broadbandforum.co/threads/m...from-amazon-india-september-2021-unit.211016/

This will need to be looked into more depth. More repeatable ways to reproduce the problem and whether it is the problem people say it is.

1) It occurs at 5 Ghz not 2.4 Ghz which most use.

2) There were a few guys with Sept 2021 builds who brought this up, once they got their refund the topic died. Which isn't surprising because unless you have Gbit speeds coming into your house you don't care for this. How often do you download 1GB files onto your phone ? How did you manage in years past with less capable wifi connections.

3) Their method of testing leaves much to be desired. They are testing internet speeds not wifi speeds. The guy on XDA was watching how link speeds varied.

The issue was casused by heat so in the October update Samsung raised the thermal threshold a couple of degrees before throttling. Guess what, in hotter climate its going to happen more often. If you're ambient is 35-40 it will happen more often than if you're under 30.

Does that mean the issue has gone away if ever there was one to begin with ? I don't know as yet

 

[OMEGA44-XT]

What link speed do you see with 2.4Ghz 'n' with channel width of 40Mhz ?

With the Netgear R7000, i'm unable to get beyond 192Mb/s (varies between 144-192 Mb/s) but my laptop connects at 300Mb/s

Things are better at 5Ghz 'n' and 'ac both S20FE and laptop link speeds match

5 Ghz 'n' 40Mhz channel displays 400 Mb/s link speed on both

5 Ghz 'ac' 80Mhz channel displays 866Mb/s link speed on both. This amazes me for a phone !!!

The one place Sammy could have cheaped out on is wireless networking but turns out the S20FE like the rest of the S20 series supports Wifi 6. FE's Wifi is just as capable as the S20Ultra and even S21Ultra

Why can't i get a link speed of 300Mb/s at 2.4 Ghz 'n' on the S20FE ? the laptop can handle it.

Laptop is 3x3 MIMO, S20FE is 2x2MIMO. Maybe that explains the lower 2.4Ghz speed but it does not explain the same 5GHz speed for both.



And for any one else reading this. Link speed and actual speed are not the same thing. Actual speed as in how fast things come over is much lower.

Will post graphs later of wifi speed not internet speed

This will need to be looked into more depth. More repeatable ways to reproduce the problem and whether it is the problem people say it is.

1) It occurs at 5 Ghz not 2.4 Ghz which most use.

2) There were a few guys with Sept 2021 builds who brought this up, once they got their refund the topic died. Which isn't surprising because unless you have Gbit speeds coming into your house you don't care for this. How often do you download 1GB files onto your phone ? How did you manage in years past with less capable wifi connections.

3) Their method of testing leaves much to be desired. They are testing internet speeds not wifi speeds. The guy on XDA was watching how link speeds varied.

The issue was casused by heat so in the October update Samsung raised the thermal threshold a couple of degrees before throttling. Guess what, in hotter climate its going to happen more often. If you're ambient is 35-40 it will happen more often than if you're under 30.

Does that mean the issue has gone away if ever there was one to begin with ? I don't know as yet

I didn't change touch router settings (TP Link AX1500 AX10), but on 2.4GHz, I get 45-50Mbps on speed test & see Network speed of 104-117Mbps in WiFi settings. My phone is luckily not one of those problematic ones.

I use WiFi 6 at 5GHz (not a 6E router), has been working as intended. My ambient temps never went over 35C here though.

My phone was bought during the Diwali sale in Oct for 34k.

Maybe the issue is solved, recently One UI 4.1 was pushed. Since I upgraded to android 12, the battery life SOT is not as accurate as it should be.

 

[rockstah]

1) It occurs at 5 Ghz not 2.4 Ghz which most use.

2) There were a few guys with Sept 2021 builds who brought this up, once they got their refund the topic died. Which isn't surprising because unless you have Gbit speeds coming into your house you don't care for this. How often do you download 1GB files onto your phone ? How did you manage in years past with less capable wifi connections.

do you mean September 2021 imported mobiles?
does it have issues? i recently purchased and received September 2021 import too


So I checked my WiFi after reading that thread,
seems like it's still an issue? or is it only for the September 2021 imported models?
I tried running speed test to the same server on both LG and Samsung and s20fe seems to perform very poorly, not sure if i should replace it or keep it. Attaching screenshots for the tests
@blr_p what do you suggest?

 

[blr_p]

I didn't change touch router settings (TP Link AX1500 AX10), but on 2.4GHz, I get 45-50Mbps on speed test & see Network speed of 104-117Mbps in WiFi settings. My phone is luckily not one of those problematic ones.

I use WiFi 6 at 5GHz (not a 6E router), has been working as intended. My ambient temps never went over 35C here though.

My phone was bought during the Diwali sale in Oct for 34k.

Maybe the issue is solved, recently One UI 4.1 was pushed. Since I upgraded to android 12, the battery life SOT is not as accurate as it should be.

Attached expected link speeds for a Macbook Air which is 2x2MIMO

In your case with wifi 6 you should get max link speeds of (see ax)

192 Mb/s on 2.4Ghz
1,200 Mb/s on 5 Ghz

If you have the phone no further than 6 feet away from the router.


It explains the 2.4 Ghz 'n' 144Mb/s i see but that tends to go up to 192 and fluctuate. But R7000 isn't Wifi 6 only WIfi 5 so only ac speeds apply in my case.

It explains the 866 as well. No explanation for the 400Mb/s. It should be 300Mb/s but both laptop and show 400 Mb/s

Anyway these are just PHY speeds. Throughput is what counts and will post that later.

The app I will be using is Wifi Speed Test Pro

It has a server component you can run on a PC. Or you could install the app on a second phone and do it phone to phone.

Then the app ups/downs files of whatever size you set for whatever duration you set.

I wonder what file sizes to use and for how long to run to demonstrate the problem ? temps will rise with use and i expect there will be throttling if pushed beyond a point. Question is whether this is an issue or normal.

Only way to tell is compared with another phone and whether or not it demonstrates the same 'problem' as well. But if that other phone has a higher thermal throttling threshold its meaningless.

The pro version of that app allows to configure file size and duration, the free version just sends a 50MB file for 10 seconds which won't show much.

do you mean September 2021 imported mobiles?
does it have issues? i recently purchased and received September 2021 import too

They mentioned manufacture date of September 2021. Have you updated your firmware since ?

Mine has a manufacture date of March 2022 and came OOTB with Android 12 and One UI 4.0. I've not upgraded to 4.1 yet.

What surprised me was on checking with devcheck, it showed a more precise manufacturing date of March 26. I bought the phone a mere two weeks later. So there is good turnover for this phone. Selling like hot cakes.

So I checked my WiFi after reading that thread,
seems like it's still an issue? or is it only for the September 2021 imported models?
I tried running speed test to the same server on both LG and Samsung and s20fe seems to perform very poorly, not sure if i should replace it or keep it. Attaching screenshots for the tests
@blr_p what do you suggest?

View attachment 132387
View attachment 132388

Hmm, is the first one the LG and the second the Samsung ?

Do more tests ?

Mine from an app called Speedcheck Pro is attached. Oddly i can't find that app in the playstore any more. Which i installed just two days ago (!)

It allows to schedule tests which i set for every five minutes for a total of an hour's duration. I can't tell what size file it is uploading and downloading for this test. But my internet speeds are 50/10. Does the problem manifest at faster speeds ? I will find out later when i do wifi tests.

Do you consider such a test valid ? What is the criteria to demonstrate the issue

I see some people who scambled because there is only 7 day return policy and pulled the plug. Why there are no more people complaining after them ? I don't buy the insinuation there is a hardware defect. If its throttling then its software.

Online tools are available, don't know how accurate they are and internet speeds can vary due to traffic so consistency can be affected

Automatic Speed Test

Monitor and graph your Internet connection speed over time with this automatic speed test.

testmy.net

Also check out the wifi speedtest pro app.

 

[rockstah]

Hmm, is the first one the LG and the second the Samsung ?

Do more tests ?

Mine from an app called Speedcheck Pro is attached. Oddly i can't find that app in the playstore any more. Which i installed just two days ago (!)

It allows to schedule tests which i set for every five minutes for a total of an hour's duration. I can't tell what size file it is uploading and downloading for this test. But my internet speeds are 50/10. Does the problem manifest at faster speeds ? I will find out later when i do wifi tests.

Do you consider such a test valid ? What is the criteria to demonstrate the issue

I see some people who scambled because there is only 7 day return policy and pulled the plug. Why there are no more people complaining after them ? I don't buy the insinuation there is a hardware defect. If its throttling then its software.

Online tools are available, don't know how accurate they are and internet speeds can vary due to traffic so consistency can be affected

Automatic Speed Test

Monitor and graph your Internet connection speed over time with this automatic speed test.

testmy.net

Also check out the wifi speedtest pro app.

So I restarted and checked again, the download speed seems to be normal but only getting half the upload speed. I'll check again with other apps as you suggested.

Have you updated your firmware since ?

Mine has a manufacture date of March 2022 and came OOTB with Android 12 and One UI 4.0. I've not upgraded to 4.1 yet.

ya it's on latest update. Did you buy it recently too? where did you buy it from, online or offline? because I bought it from Amazon few days back and got September 2021 stock, is that normal or should I ask for 2022 stock? I'm just worried if they're dumping defective/old stock as sale


Edit : s20fe wifi still bad, getting same results as before

 

[blr_p]

So I restarted and checked again, the download speed seems to be normal but only getting half the upload speed. I'll check again with other apps as you suggested.

Unless you can get repeatable results it does not count. Then have to see whether the results are valid or not

ya it's on latest update. Did you buy it recently too? where did you buy it from, online or offline? because I bought it from Amazon few days back and got September 2021 stock, is that normal or should I ask for 2022 stock? I'm just worried if they're dumping defective/old stock as sale

I got it from Appario on amazon without the offer. I did not want to buy from any other seller.

Noticed Appario offers the phone without offer on the weekends so i got it for 35k. They sent me a two week old phone, fresh from the factory. Made in India.

Still going for that price with the 2k off coupon.

Rest of the week Appario wants 40k 'with offer'

 

[rockstah]

Unless you can get repeatable results it does not count. Then have to see whether the results are valid or not

I got it from Appario on amazon without the offer. I did not want to buy from any other seller.

Appario only offers the phone without offer on the weekends so i got it for 35k. Still going for that price with the 2k off coupon.

Rest of the week Appario asks for 39k with offer.

I got it from appario too, i didn't avail any offer other than the same 2k coupon that's available now. How is it that you're getting 2022 model and I'm getting 6 months old stock. Can you check speed test to i3d Singapore server and say how much speed you're getting?
The wifi seems to be bad in many servers while in some it's giving good download speed.
I'm gonna try for a replacement and see how it goes.

 

[blr_p]

I got it from appario too, i didn't avail any offer other than the same 2k coupon that's available now. How is it that you're getting 2022 model and I'm getting 6 months old stock.

Well, i was hoping they would send me an older one because it was not clear if 12 could be rooted or not but I noticed the unlock bootloader option in developer options so i guess its good.

Now, if you're model is a Sept build, it means it came with 11. You then upgraded to 12.

Some people mentioned heating issues after they upgraded. Did you notice that ?

The fix with Sammy's is to reset the system cache in recovery. Did you do that ?

Oh! and Pushkar's FE is also from September

Really appreciate the work this guy from Jharkand has done to educate people about this phone. Tracked it right from when he bought it.

The usual story is some unboxing then review and on to the next phone. Any issues. heh don't ask. I don't spend much time with guys like that any more.

Can you check speed test to i3d Singapore server and say how much speed you're getting?

Which app is this ? Keep in mind my internet is slower than yours. I've already showed you a battery of internet tests i did earlier.

The wifi seems to be bad in many servers while in some it's giving good download speed.

Wifi is your phone to the router. Rest of that is the internet. This is why i don't put much stock in internet tests. You're testing the wifi chip not your internet stability.

I'm gonna try for a replacement and see how it goes.

I'd test some more before so at least you can tell whether there is a problem or not.

 

[rockstah]

Some people mentioned heating issues after they upgraded. Did you notice that ?

No heating issues yet, its only being used for calls and youtube though.

The fix with Sammy's is to reset the system cache in recovery. Did you do that ?

No, I just did a factory reset once then upgraded to Android 12

Oh! and Pushkar's FE is also from September

He bought in oct 2021 and me in april 2022 so shouldn't i be getting a march 2022 stock and not 6 month old stock

Which app is this ? Keep in mind my internet is slower than yours. I've already showed you a battery of internet tests i did earlier.

Wifi is your phone to the router. Rest of that is the internet. This is why i don't put much stock in internet tests. You're testing the wifi chip not your internet stability.

I'd test some more before so at least you can tell whether there is a problem or not.

Ya i think ill keep it as I do not want to end up with a bad replacement unit. I'll check again tomorrow noon when its hot af and see how it goes. This wifi which has a mind of its own like at times it gets only 6mbps out of 100mbps but i checked now at testmy.net and its actually getting better speeds than my lg.

 

[blr_p]

No, I just did a factory reset once then upgraded to Android 12

I'd have thought you do the reset AFTER the upgrade to 12 but whatever.

He bought in oct 2021 and me in april 2022 so shouldn't i be getting a march 2022 stock and not 6 month old stock

What difference does it make. Is the phone new or not. Is it damaged or not.

What % was the battery when you first restarted it. Mine was at 60%. Was your battery dead or not.

Ya i think ill keep it as I do not want to end up with a bad replacement unit. I'll check again tomorrow noon when its hot af and see how it goes.

I'd test early in the morning when internet traffic is low and also ambient temps are low to get a baseline.

THEN i'd test when its hot and preferably have some way to measure ambient temperature both times when the test is done.

My app to track battery is 3C battery manager which has a widget I put on my home screen showing the battery temps. When there is no activity for an hour I find the battery temperature closely matches ambient. Ambient is very important as you will get an idea of when the phone throttles. We're getting into the hot season now so it will likely happen more often. Then the monsoons begin and temps dip lower. I'm used to seeing people complain more often in the hot season then not and them not realising the ambient in India gets higher than elsewhere.

This wifi which has a mind of its own like at times it gets only 6mbps out of 100mbps but i checked now at testmy.net and its actually getting better speeds than my lg.

I don't know how reliable those tests are. What do they prove. That your phone can run repeated tests in an hour. Like a phone from ten years ago could as well ?

So wifi test removes the internet variable and keep things local.

My V20 has only got single stream so max link speed at 2.4 Ghz is 65 Mb/s. The FE in comparison gets to 144 Mb/s because its 2x2.

I was upset when i discovered that. The single sim V20 was dual stream but the dual sim was single stream. I lived with it

So its not surprising the FE gets faster speeds than the LG. Assuming your LG is single stream like mine.

Which router do you have and what is the fastest link speed you get with it on 5GHz ?

 

[rockstah]

I' have thought you do the reset AFTER the upgrade to 12 but whatever.

What difference does it make. Is the phone new or not. Is it damaged or not.

What % was the battery when you first restarted it. Mine was at 60%. Was your battery dead or not.

The mobile looks new with no other issues, there wasnt much battery left though. I think it was around 15% left when i unboxed it.
Speaking of battery what's your battery backup like?

I'd test early in the morning when internet traffic is low and also ambient temps are low to get a baseline.

THEN i'd test when its hot and preferably have some way to measure ambient temperature both times when the test is done.

My app to track battery is 3C battery manager which has a widget I put on my home screen showing the battery temps. When there is no activity for an hour I find the battery temperature closely matches ambient. Ambient is very important as you will get an idea of when the phone throttles. We're getting into the hot season now so it will likely happen more often. Then the monsoons begin and temps dip lower. I'm used to seeing people complain more often in the hot season then not and them not realising the ambient in India gets higher than elsewhere.

Now at night ambient temp is low so i'll keep this as baseline, at noon it'll be close to 39-40c here so ill check at that time. I don't know how reliable those tests are. What do they prove. That your phone can run repeated tests in an hour. Like a phone from ten years ago could as well ?

So wifi test removes the internet variable and keep things local.

Thats why i kept choosing singapore servers as checking in nearby servers dont prove much also I dont have any idea how to check properly, will just visit svc if i do face issues later on.

My V20 has only got single stream so max link speed at 2.4 Ghz is 65 Mb/s. The FE in comparison gets to 144 Mb/s because its 2x2.

I was upset when i discovered that. The single sim V20 was dual stream but the dual sim was single stream. I lived with it

Which router do you have and what is the fastest link speed you get with it on 5GHz ?

Its not a 5ghz router, it came with the isp and the plan is 100mbps only. If possible will check at my friend's tomorrow who has good router and 1gbps connection.

 

[blr_p]

The mobile looks new with no other issues, there wasnt much battery left though. I think it was around 15% left when i unboxed it.
Speaking of battery what's your battery backup like?

Not done the baseline test yet. Which is to run this video at 30% brightness from 100% to 5%

With a fresh battery the LG lasted 10h, the FE will likely cross 15h

As for standby i need BBS to work better. Curretly it has some issues with not collecting all the stats.

Baseline is 0.3%/h standby. I'm sure with apps it will rise to somewhere between 1-2%/h sitting there doing nothing. Which means dead phone in 4 days.

Thats why i kept choosing singapore servers as checking in nearby servers dont prove much also I dont have any idea how to check properly, will just visit svc if i do face issues later on.

My point is internet test is introducing variables out of your control. You don't have a dedicated line to Singapore. You don't know what that server is doing at the time of your test. At best this is no better than a smell test.

Doing a wifi test puts all that in your control. You have server on your device. Your wifi is your own. You can max out the speeds.

Its not a 5ghz router, it came with the isp and the plan is 100mbps only. If possible will check at my friend's tomorrow who has good router and 1gbps connection.

Yeah i've got one like that too, its link speed is lower than the R7000. What is yours like ? once connnected to wifi, open the cog and scroll to the bottom for Network speed.

Mine presently shows 78Mb/s. Lol. Airtel's Beetel 777VR1.

I'm trying to understand how to reliably test speeds and its quite involved. An internet speedtest website that i use from time to time is speedof.me

See how they do it...

Sample files are in these sizes: 128 KB, 256 KB, 512 KB, 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64 and 128 MB

It begins with downloading the smallest sample size (128 KB). While it shows the real-time bandwidth graph, it also watches the download duration.

If it takes less than eight seconds, the next sample would be tried; otherwise, it continues with the upload test.

Among all downloaded samples, only the last one which took more than eight seconds will be accepted, and your download speed is actually based on the last sample file.

I have no way to automate different file sizes unless i use a different tool.

But you can get an idea of the different parameters used and repeated testing to get consistent results before you can conclude anything.

 

[rockstah]

I'm trying to understand how to reliably test speeds and its quite involved. An internet speedtest website that i use from time to time is speedof.me

See how they do it...


I have no way to automate different file sizes unless i use a different tool.

But you can get an idea of the different parameters used and repeated testing to get consistent results before you can conclude anything.

Thats what testmy.net does too, theres also separate tests for upload/download where you can choose the load size from 256kb to 200mb and you can change the server location to other countries as well.
Also do share battery stats after youve checked it.

 

[blr_p]

Also do share battery stats after youve checked it.

Check out Pushkar's battery test video after the 12 upgrade

He hammers the phone for 6h and still has 25% battery left (!) His earlier tests on 11 showed an avg of 7h SOT at 10%.

So no drop in battery performance going from 11 to 12.

Notice his ambient temperature at the time of the test. It's 18 degrees outside so likely few degrees higher inside.

You do this test when its 35 degrees and your SOT will be shorter

Also all his testing is done under wifi not mobile data. On data take away 2h unless your signal is good to very good.

This phone is the same size as the V20 but has 50% larger battery so I don't expect any problems with it.

 

[rockstah]

Check out Pushkar's battery test video after the 12 upgrade

He hammers the phone for 6h and still has 25% battery left (!) His earlier tests on 11 shoiwed an avg of 7h SOT at 10%. So no drop in battery performance going from 11 to 12.

Notice his ambient temperature. It's 18 degrees outisde so likely few degrees higher inside.

You do this test when its 35 degrees it will be shorter

mine at best 5hr sot with 20% with 1h youtube,whatsapp and 40mins non intense gaming

 

[blr_p]

mine at best 5hr sot with 20% with 1h youtube,whatsapp and 40mins non intense gaming

On wifi only or how much time on data ?

 

[rockstah]

On wifi only or how much time on data ?

only wifi, mobile data usage 10mins at best