PC Peripherals UPS power consumption when idle

lockhrt999

lockhrt999

Not a Fan.
Level H
How much power does your UPS consume when it's plugged in but not turned on and not charging batteries? Can you guys check if you have any energy meter with you?

My APC consumes 20 watts plugged in doing nothing.
That's, ~20watt x 24 hours = 0.5 unit per day or 15 units per month of wasted electricity :rage: Or about Rs. 170 per month.

My whole computer system including UPS consumes about 60 units per month. So about 1/4 of that electricity is merely used to keep the UPS warm and doing nothing.

That means I'm spending 2k per year on UPS that's doing nothing. Isn't this crazy? If I disconnect the UPS when I'm not using the computer, I think I'll probably save 1k per year.

If somebody is using an AC to cool their room, it gets even worse. To offset 0.5 unit worth of heat, you'll have to use 1 more unit of electricity on the AC itself (there are inefficiencies). If I cool my room with AC, I'll waste 45 unites per month just to keep my UPS warm and toasty, or about Rs. 6k per year.

Are all UPS brands taking this much power and doing nothing?
 
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lockhrt999 said:
BTW,
What watt your UPS consumes when it's plugged in but not turned on and not charging batteries? Can you guys check if you have any energy meter with you?

My APC consumes 20 watts plugged in doing nothing.
That's,
~20watt x 24 hours x 30 days = 15 units of electricity per month. :rage: Or about 170 rs per month.

My whole computer system including UPS consumes about 60 units per month. So about 1/4 of that electricity is merely used to keep UPS warm and doing nothing.

That means I'm spending 2k per year on UPS that's doing nothing. Isn't this crazy? Are all UPS brands taking this much power and doing nothing?
Click to expand...
I have an APC BR1500G for my main PC. With the ups display reading 0W (out), smart plug connected to UPS mains (in) is indeed reading ~18W. Made sure that the UPS is in steady state, no load, not charging the battery (hopefully).
Really poor power factor too, so looks like a mostly inductive load. Probably the transformer used to step down the mains voltage, to maintain battery float voltage and keep the system running.
 

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ze_cook said:
I have an APC BR1500G for my main PC. With the ups display reading 0W (out), smart plug connected to UPS mains (in) is indeed reading ~18W. Made sure that the UPS is in steady state, no load, not charging the battery (hopefully).
Really poor power factor too, so looks like a mostly inductive load. Probably the transformer used to step down the mains voltage, to maintain battery float voltage and keep the system running.
Click to expand...
May I know what device you have used to get these stats?
 
lockhrt999 said:
Are you sure 43W is the lowest you saw? Maybe the battery was being charged.
Click to expand...

Oh no, sorry, I meant I was seeing a poor power factor as well, I usually see 0.9 or more for a computing load. That 43W includes a Mac mini but nothing else, not even USB peripherals. I wanted a separate battery backup for the mini since my inverter powers the proxmox clusters for only 15 minutes (~1500W load) and sometimes we have hours-long power cuts.

edit: There's just been a power cut so I was able to shutdown the mini to take this screenshot, power draw with nothing connected is 16W:

IMG_20230826_143646.jpg
 
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rsaeon said:
There's just been a power cut so I was able to shutdown the mini to take this screenshot, power draw with nothing connected is 16W:
Click to expand...
16W is still a lot for a single battery UPS.

Nowadays, I'm seeing new types of UPS which are meant for powering low powered devices like routers, CCTV, NAS, some scientific instruments through AC. No, I'm not talking about those tiny DC UPS. These look like a traditional computer UPS, but they can run for hours. I have a feeling that these UPS are more power efficient.

Example,
 
That looks like a regular UPS without the low-load cutoff (most budget UPS will shut off if there isn't a large enough load connected) and maybe a cooling fan to allow for extended operation. Specifications state it's a simulated sinewave.

lockhrt999 said:
16W is still a lot for a single battery UPS.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it seems wasteful. This one's a dual battery model though. Online UPS are much more power hungry though, those are always running in UPS mode. This one is a line-interactive one, it'll turn on the inverter only when required.

Emperor said:
How about UPS with Lithium-Ion Battery? Any Brand that provide same in India with reasonable price?
Click to expand...

There's just one, by Luminous, but the cost is over twice as much compared to lead acid: https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=luminous li-ion

I'm hopeful that maybe I can make a LifePO4 powerwall in the next couple of years to supplement or replace LA batteries.
 
rsaeon said:
That looks like a regular UPS without the low-load cutoff (most budget UPS will shut off if there isn't a large enough load connected) and maybe a cooling fan to allow for extended operation. Specifications state it's a simulated sinewave.
Click to expand...
From what I've seen, regular UPS doesn't last this long even without no-load cut-offs. A UPS giving half hour backup with a normal load may give an hour of backup with no load. But not like 4 hours as these new UPS are claiming to be.

This new breed of UPS for low-powered items is different in a few ways,
1. DC-AC looks to be efficient. That's why they can give power backup for hours.
2. There's no constant beeping.
3. I think they will automatically restart when the power comes back on.
 
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kiran6680 said:
Yeah, I'm using 2 of these small UPSes with Li-ion battery for WiFi access point/CCTV, from Artis : https://www.amazon.in/gp/aw/d/B097THLT2M

I too think they are more efficient, because they don't seem to get warm at all. Though I don't have measurement tools, so don't quote me :).
Click to expand...
But how about long-run reliability?
Can only the battery be replaced after a certain years or say immediately if the device conks up just after warranty?
What about A.S.S.?

I have bench-marked and called few desi ups providers, some give battery replacement while some say to purchase the entire device once battery life goes for a toss! and o guarantee if it happens within a year or two.

lockhrt999 said:
BTW,
What watt your UPS consumes when it's plugged in but not turned on and not charging batteries? Can you guys check if you have any energy meter with you?

My APC consumes 20 watts plugged in doing nothing.
That's,
~20watt x 24 hours x 30 days = 15 units of electricity per month. :rage: Or about 170 rs per month.

My whole computer system including UPS consumes about 60 units per month. So about 1/4 of that electricity is merely used to keep UPS warm and doing nothing.

That means I'm spending 2k per year on UPS that's doing nothing. Isn't this crazy? Are all UPS brands taking this much power and doing nothing?
Click to expand...
Just an UPS?
Calculate for every other devices incl. phone chargers which are not connected to the phone but the mains are still on, AC, Tvs and many such adapters and points at home.

They all consume electricity no matter how tiny and we end up wasting sufficient electricity as well as money if calculated annually.
 
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nRiTeCh said:
But how about long-run reliability?
Can only the battery be replaced after a certain years or say immediately if the device conks up just after warranty?
Click to expand...
Yes, legitimate concerns, I have no idea. The battery replacement problem is solved by jugad in India : the third party service people replace the battery with another one having similar dimensions (or smaller, so that it fits) and similar characteristics. The popular UPS models have their own first party and third party battery parts available.

This being Li ion, newer and hence the market may not have been established yet.
 
kiran6680 said:
Yeah, I'm using 2 of these small UPSes with Li-ion battery for WiFi access point/CCTV, from Artis : https://www.amazon.in/gp/aw/d/B097THLT2M
Click to expand...
I have a similar DC UPS from another maker with simultaneous 5V, 9V, 12V outputs. No POE, though.
nRiTeCh said:
Just an UPS?
Calculate for every other devices incl. phone chargers which are not connected to the phone but the mains are still on, AC, Tvs and many such adapters and points at home.
Click to expand...
That's for UPS alone, yes. And nothing else. It wasn't measured at mains but for UPS alone.
 
On a related note, anyone measured the power consumption for the inverters?
Looking to swap 3 of my UPSs to an inverter. It might help to power the lights and fan as well!
 
thirumalkumaran said:
On a related note, anyone measured the power consumption for the inverters?
Click to expand...
They mention efficiency numbers on most inverters. And they even mention different efficiencies for inverter and UPS modes. But I don't know how to translate it to actual power consumption in wattage. I suppose efficiency could vary depending upon the load.

There are some expensive inverters who might show this info live on a display (need to check manual though).

In theory, it's possible to measure raw power consumption of an inverter (not online UPS) by routing live wires of input and output through the same energy meter. Input and output wires' electromagnetic fields will cancel each other out, except for a small difference in power consumed by the inverter itself. And only that should show up on the meter. Too much theory.
 
Inverters and UPSs do waste a lot of energy. Long back, like 15 years ago, there was a news report that in many cities, people putting inverters at home was making the power situation worse. This included Delhi at the time.

I'm in Mumbai and I don't use UPS for any of my PCs. But I have a MAS which runs on HDDs, so unfortunately I have to keep a small UPS plugged in 24x7. Will have to get a smart plug to measure the consumption.
 
gourav said:
Inverters and UPSs do waste a lot of energy. Long back, like 15 years ago, there was a news report that in many cities, people putting inverters at home was making the power situation worse.
Click to expand...
In that case, the context was different. Load-shedding or rolling blackouts were meant to cut down on the power usage. People weren't supposed to “stock” the power using inverters and batteries. But they did just that, negating the purpose of load-shedding.

15 years ago, it was necessary to possess and manage generator sets during periods of load-shedding to operate a business. Not just that, the govt used to charge you per unit for producing your own electricity using your gen sets running on your diesel. Crazy times. I posted a source about this in a different thread.

Ssreek said:
What DC UPS was capable of providing such outputs?
Click to expand...

I have a variation of this model.
 
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