US India diplomatic row over Devyani Khobragade escalates

[Kilroyquasar]

yeah, well done preet, you really scored big time in India with this one. We'll keep this in mind the next time a billion dollar contract comes up. You can worry about how much we pay our maids, we'll search for better vendors to buy from.

you should also have a look at the report of the conference held & the observation/statement made by this man on the 4th of Dec. with regard to the Russian diplomats.

 

[manu1991]

yeah, well done preet, you really scored big time in India with this one. We'll keep this in mind the next time a billion dollar contract comes up. You can worry about how much we pay our maids, we'll search for better vendors to buy from.

He runs for public office? What does he gain by antagonizing Indians living there who I presume would support him. I am sure India has nothing to lose by antagonizing the US. Narayan Murthy will just export his software and BPO crap to the Bangalore Municipality.

Grave Crimes are usually genocide & Mass Murder like the ones we got after Naziz and African warlords for.

Please tell me you are joking. Genocide and Mass murder are the only grave crimes?

 

[letmein]

yeah, well done preet, you really scored big time in India with this one. We'll keep this in mind the next time a billion dollar contract comes up. You can worry about how much we pay our maids, we'll search for better vendors to buy from.

Let's request all NRIs to come back. In addition, let's all stop using products from American companies.

Shit, I guess I'll have burn my house.

 

[Kilroyquasar]

Human-trafficking could also be (and is, most probably) a grave crime in america; esp. under the democrats there, the state deptt. and one more deptt. have anti-trafficking modules constituted, which are on prowl to hunt 'high-profile' cases for the said crime.

 

[dexBG]

This wasn't a case of human trafficking. Sangeeta willingly accepted the job, Lied to an immigration officer to get there.


Please look up the meaning of Human trafficking before tossing that term around.

Devyani's charges are Visa fraud and Lying to the Govt.

 

[Kilroyquasar]

yes, it isn't a case of human-trafficking, as its being tried to be made out. just wrote that in light of what all crimes would warrant attaching the term 'grave' to them; rapes, murders constitute the others.

and there IS a visa fraud involved here, except that the fraudster much seems to be the 'green card' aspirant maid here.

 

[Kilroyquasar]

*sorry for the double-posts.*

 

[asingh]

You've left out Richard's testimony. Such a testimony would've fallen on deaf years in an Indian Police Station. Lets leave out the fact that according to the NYPD Devyani falsified documents with or without Richards help. Lets also leave out the fact that Devyani underpaid Richard on American soil. Just because Devyani filed the complaint doesn't give the NYPD Officer any reason to believe her over Richard. Remember that the NYPD officer HAS NO REASON TO BELIEVE EITHER DEVYANI OR RICHARD.

What you mean I left it out...? Please cease trying to make me look like a fool here..! It holds moot logic what the staff's predicament would have been in India. That has got nothing to do with this. What documents have been falsified, it is still not clear. Do not workers of this caliber go on official VISAs to the USA with employment restrictions. As I questioned you before, was it a crime of such sanctity that the diplomat (sic) was subjugated to such treatment. Just cause the staff filed a claim (which could be BS too ); makes it a leeway for the officer to believe her only, and arrest the employer on the side walk like some terrorist. Did the diplomat not make it clear that her staff was trying to procure full working rights, which she was not entitled too.

I agree the officer should not be biased. True, and should take a neutral PoV.

Now how do you suppose an NYPD officer (who has no idea of what goes on in India) would react if an Indian Domestic help honestly answered questions related to her work lifestyle (most of it in India if not all) that applies to Domestic Workers in America? And can you blame the NYPD officer for asking so? Don't you think any NYPD officer would ask why someone absconded in the first place? And is it surprising if Richard exaggerated if not lied? And can you blame the NYPD officer, who has no idea about the servant class in India, for believing Richard's exaggerated testimony? And considering all of the aforementioned points do you think an NYPD officer, who also is a citizen of a Nation that takes its constitutional rights very seriously, would acknowledge Consular Immunity?

He would make a report and press charges. But I doubt he would go and hand-cuff the person, and subject them to body checks which would happen to a terrorist. I see this as out right racial profiling. I am not blaming anyone, so stop putting words in my argument which are not there, Sid_DonnyDarko..! LOL.....an NYPD officer would/should/has to be obvious to the concept of Consular Immunity. I do not care if the diplomat was entitled to this thereon, but the treatment was harsh and not called for. America is not God-foresaken nation who can do what they want with foreign nationals. They bark human rights, was this human rights.

Here's where you bring in the fact that Devyani falsified documents to get Richard into the country. Can the NYPD Officer undermine, let alone overlook, the fact that Devyani committed a punishable crime? Do you really think Devyani could convince the ignorant NYPD Officer that Richard was an alias and not an innocent victim?

God knows what you are saying here. I do not get it. Sorry. What you mean: here I bring it in. Am I conjuring up some fairy-tale. I am asking: what was falsified. That we keep hearing about. Your whole argument is "ifs" and "hypothetical". I am not getting it.

At this juncture, Consular Immunity is the only thing standing between Devyani and Prison. Its debatable if Devyani can claim that she falsified documents in order for Richard to help her with her work. And Richard would've most probably told the NYPD Officer that she's only a Domestic Help and in no way connected to Devyani's employment. So does the NYPD Officer choose to acknowledge Devyani's Consular Immunity on the basis that Richard was hired to help her with her work? Or does the same NYPD Officer charge Devyani on the basis of conduct since she chose to mislead the USG by falsifying documents; a crime that the Consular Immunity cannot protect an Foreign National Consul from and the fact that there was no basis for Devyani to underpay Richard on American soil does not work in Devyani's favoir.

Not until proven so. You are jumping the gun. You are just making up a story like some journalist. LOL. What was falsified..? I am not hearing about that..? Anyone could be lying. The staff had vanished months ago. I think American over-acted, grossly.

And lets not talk about some contract signed in India. It has no bearing on Foreign Soil unless a Foreign Authority is involved.

Where did I say this. Please do not insert arguments which I have not bought up. It is annoying, at the minimal.

What are the crimes the diplomat committed. And what substantial proof is out there, apart from the singular testimony, but the staff gone AWOL months back.

 

[asingh]

Nobody seems to understand that Americans loathe and detest the very idea behind Slavery or Human Trafficking. And they will treat anyone found guilty in the same way they would treat a psychotic serial killer.

Yea, that is why they were Jim Crow'ed (read about it) till the 60's. LOL. Now they are hounded by their past and want to show-case to the world how good and dandy they are. Americans are hypocrites to the core. And are still racist. One vile nation at heart, but has brains and brawn and influence...!

 

[Kilroyquasar]

Yea, that is why they were Jim Crow'ed (read about it) till the 60's. LOL. Now they are hounded by their past and want to show-case to the world how good and dandy they are. Americans are hypocrites to the core. And are still racist. One vile nation at heart, but has brains and brawn and influence...!

and the mitt romney case of last year?! perhaps, conveniently sweeped under the carpet?!

 

[dexBG]

We don't see eye-to-eye with them because we encourage the servant class. India's wealth is generated by the servant class who are born to be exploited. In America (read American soil), underpaying a hired help is the equivalent of abuse (human rights) and no less grievous than rape, murder, genocide.

Dear me.. think of all those illegal Mexican workers. Do you think Texans/Californians pay full minimum wage to have their gardens tended to.
Do you think the builders & temp. hired help are treated any better ?

US has one biggest immigrant work force population, illegal as well. Don't put them on a pedestal.
They actively lobby Congress to block laws which would improve minimum wage to a liveable amount.

Your opinion is seems very narrow.

From the perspective of a righteous yet ignorant NYPD Officer
- Lying to the USG
- Underpaying a human being on American soil which can also be interpreted as abuse

Its labour issue not one of Abuse.. please sort this out in your head.

The NYPD Officer works for his Police Department. He has no idea of what goes on outside his department and its not his business to interfere. From his perspective, Devyani is the equivalent of a Human Trafficker. Think like an American.

Please drop this load of bull shit while it still warm .. Do you even know what Human Trafficking is ?
Are Americans some superior intelligent beings ?

AFAIK it was the US Marshals who processed the arrest and they are much more sensible than your avg. NYPD officer and the prosecution was well aware of who was being arrested and could have looked into the whole business to avoid any un-necessary issues.

In America, its perfectly normal if an Officer decides to press charges and hand-cuff anyone no matter how important they are. ...

You seem to be an expert on American Law Enforcement & Judicial system now. .. incase you want to go down the same road I'll just suggest a minor correction .. Police Officers never press charges, a prosecutor does.

From the perspective of the ignorant NYPD Officer, Devyani violated human rights.

A Police Officer is no one to have a legal perspective .. and going ahead with the legal expert Schtick of yours .. try to use the words "allegedly" more often .. its will make you seem more credible.

Devyani never violated any human rights. If you have some extra information do share with us .. or nevermind just list what exactly are Human Rights as guaranteed by the United Nations and we will figure it out for our selves.

 

[dexBG]

And yours is unbelievably obtuse. How can you expect an NYPD Officer to consider allowing the fact that there are thousands of illegal immigrant in the country to influence his decision. The issue was between Richard and Devyani. How can the NYPD Officer factor illegal Mexican immigrants into his decision-making when he's working on a case between Devyani and Richard?

I don't even who this imaginary NYPD officer is .. and your bringing it up in every post is distracting.

I was talking about your assertions that American are Champions of labour rights, since you said how paying less than minimum wage is equal to GENOCIDE .. please do tell how do they sleep at night ?

Here is the link you wanted .. http://www.ncfh.org/docs/fs-Facts about Farmworkers.pdf

Wages and Benefits
Migrant and seasonal farmworkers represent some of the most economically disadvantaged people in the U.S.13
According to the 2007-2009 NAWS survey results, 23% of farmworker families had total family income levels
below the national poverty guidelines.

In addition to low wages, farmworkers rarely have access to worker’s compensation, occupational rehabilitation, or
disability compensation benefits.
Because worker’s compensation benefits are state-dependent, agricultural workers
are often further challenged by the qualifications and requirements of each individual state. Farmworker Justice has
compiled a chart of state-specific worker’s compensation coverage limitations for agricultural workers.
Goto Wages and Benefits.

 

[dexBG]

Please get off your backside and take a look at the big picture. I've mentioned in an earlier post that Richard would've most likely given an exaggerated testimony which twisted Devyani's image in the mind of an ignorant NYPD Officer/Prosecutor who in the beginning HAD NO REASON TO BELIEVE DEVYANI OR RICHARD.

Oh you naive boy .. the prosecutors are hella smarter than you can imagine .. An illegal Domestic worker who came to the US on false documents and by lying during the Immigration Interview has just become the Prosecutions Star witness .. You think she has the charisma to change the mind of a Career US Attorney.

Also the tesitmony of Richards or any alleged victim has absolutely zero bearing on the conduct of the officers involved in the arrest .. are you actually suggesting that they get briefed by the DA before every arrest they make. That their handling of a person during the arrest has something to do with the crime they are charged with.
What screwed up fantasy Cop Show did you grow up watching ?? The law doesn't care about your "image" .. it cares about facts & circumstances. Ajmal Kasab would have walked out of court a free man if there wasn't any sufficient evidence against him.

Richards testimony most likely also lied about having been forced to attest to a false Visa application. But it still doesn't change the fact that Devyani knowingly abetted in Visa fraud. This is about human dignity and credibility. The fact that Richard and Devyani are equally responsible for Visa fraud when RICHARD WAS DEVYANI'S RESPONSIBILITY destroys Devyani's credibility, a deputy consul general.

If there was fraud they both are equally complicit, Richards was the one who went to the Immigration officer and actually lied, and how is RICHARDS A RESPONSIBILITY OF DEVYANI. Sangeeta Richards came to the US to work for Devyani under her own free knowing full well what she would be paid and her working conditions.

Do you even have the slightest idea of how the law works ? Nobody is anyone's RESPONSIBILITY unless you are a parent.

Please tell me how did HUMAN DIGNITY come into picture ?


How else can will a Prosecutor, even one who is Indian by birth but brought up in Amerca for the largest part of his life, interpret this special case when RICHARD WAS DEVYANI'S RESPONSIBILITY?
Preet Bahara's Indian origin has nothing to do with this case .. if anyting it will only help him by showing how neutral and unbiased he is as a prosecutor.

I was talking about your assertions that American are Champions of labour rights, since you said how paying less than minimum wage is equal to GENOCIDE .. please do tell how do they sleep at night ?

My bad with the confusion regarding Marshalls and Officers even though i knew the US Marshalls were involved, who i still feel handled the case to the best of their abilities.



Again i'm sorry for my ignorance. But can we both agree that Preet Bharara could not possibly stand to gain any political mileage from this just because he was born in India? For god's sake, he grew up in America for the largest part of his life.

No we can't agree. Preet Bahara has made a career out of going after high profile targets .. this is just another notch in his belt. He will most definitely gain mileage out of this when he runs for Senate in a few years. How do you think Political careers are made ?

I may not be the foremost authority on Human Rights but i don't think the US Human Rights Watch would defend their government out of some misguided sense of blind loyalty.
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/stripsea...ni-remain-us-human-rights-watch/440226-2.html

You are dodging the topic again .. where did Devyani as per you become a human rights
violator

 

[ithehappy]

please do tell how do they sleep at night ?

 

[filmguy]

^^Did you even read the entire story?

& did you even read my post

she may be guilty or may not thats not the cause of the (very appropriate) outrage. it's the way she was arrested & then strip search & cavity search.

as someone pointed out, & despite how that Uncle Tom might now be trying to cover up his ass, that cavity search is the reserved only for the hardest of criminals & is the most severe of the 4 standard procedures that can be followed.

so you expect me to believe that a woman diplomat dropping her children to school was doing so while trying to smuggle drugs or weapons in her body cavities ?

i wonder how US diplomats who dont even have to pay for parking at indian airports & get whisked through & expect to be treated as gods would feel if they had to go through indian "standard procedure" (even for what is essentially an alleged white collar crime). i say we put dhoble on the job & allow him full use of his lathi (though some of them might enjoy that)

 

[filmguy]

Please get off your backside and take a look at the big picture. I've mentioned in an earlier post that Richard would've most likely given an exaggerated testimony which twisted Devyani's image in the mind of an ignorant NYPD Officer/Prosecutor who in the beginning HAD NO REASON TO BELIEVE DEVYANI OR RICHARD.

you keep talking about getting into the mind of the "ignorant NYPD Officer/Prosecutor". if they are that ignorant then maybe they should not be having that job

Richards testimony most likely also lied about having been forced to attest to a false Visa application. But it still doesn't change the fact that Devyani knowingly abetted in Visa fraud. This is about human dignity and credibility. The fact that Richard and Devyani are equally responsible for Visa fraud when RICHARD WAS DEVYANI'S RESPONSIBILITY destroys Devyani's credibility, a deputy consul general.

and what about the dignity of the diplomat?

Again i'm sorry for my ignorance. But can we both agree that Preet Bharara could not possibly stand to gain any political mileage from this just because he was born in India? For god's sake, he grew up in America for the largest part of his life.

so what if he grew up there. you mean, americans or so morally superior that they dont do anything for political mileage?? in fact, on a few political blogs there have been suggestions that Uncle Tom might have done this to please his boss who would enjoy the fact that John Kerry is put in a spot. this is the same guy who's dilly-dallying on prosecuting those Wall Street bankers/Big Fish who are responsible for the 2008 crisis. so much for being diligent.

On the subject of minimum wage and risking deviation, i don't see us doing anything to uplift the Servant class either. I never championed American Labour Rights in my response to @asingh's reply. Americans look like saints when compared to the way we encourage our servant class, .

you're very quick to defend the US that have been independent for many centuries & where slavery was a legal institution for centuries. yes, we have a lot to do for the poor & the domestic workers but the but that doesnt make the US the paragon of virtue. there was a case just last year of a US congressman who had illegal workers who he wasnt paying a cent to

you seem to have a huge amount of love for the amerikans. maybe you should apply for immigration visa on the grounds that you cant stand us "dirty indians". you'll get one immediately. just be ready that you'll prob'ly get anally probed for even a traffic violation

 

[ithehappy]

My favourite country was USA since I was 16, I had a plan to live there for long, until I stayed there back in 07/08. I still will be forced to go there due to business but staying or loving that country anymore is beyond me. You can read zillion articles, magazines or those garbage and think like Newton but seeing something with your own eyes is different! Racism is in their DNA, period.
The above by simplest means don't say that I like Indians, but that's a different story and off topic in this regard.

 

[dexBG]

If what you're saying about Preet Bharara's real motives is true then would i be wrong in asking why he would put his reputation at risk by protecting Richard alone when he could have them both arrested? Wouldn't it make his job easier? What kind of publicity stunt would protecting Richard serve to help Bharara's career? Are you suggesting that Preet personally directed the arresting U.S Marshall to rough up Devyani when taking her into custody? Why would he do something that could possibly discredit him if it becomes public knowledge?


He's getting a star witness for his trial .. with Richard's co-operation. He won't get anything by prosecuting both but is certainly getting it done by turning one against the other. The maid just wants her GREEN CARD, if she testifies I'm sure Bahara will pave the way for that. Richards made a deal to testify against Devyani, even the Court Filing lists Richards are the primary witness.

I never suggested Preet Bahara directing anyone .. that is your imagination.
Please tell me where does human trafficking come into all of this ?? And don't throw that word around so casually. This case is never about human trafficking.

That's why i kept repeatedly insisting that American Officials take human trafficking very seriously.
They're quite passionate about their values even if they fail to protect the same at all times. Americans don't rewrite laws or make them up along the way like we do.

FFS, America isn't the dream world TV & Movies has lead you to believe. Where are their values when they spy on their citizens without warrant or purpose or NDAA.
How much is the TSA in line with American Values ?


Richard was in Devyani's employment. Richard was sponsored by Devyani. Doesn't this make her Devyani's responsibility? Can't the prosecutor interpret it this way?

So if any crime is commited by Richards like theft or murder it will fall on Devyani's head. Do you understand your reasoning now.
And NO, the prosecution cannot interpret it this way. Richard's has her own defense & Devyani has her's.


Visa Fraud has been established since the A-3 form requires both Devyani and Richard's signature apart from transportation, payment, minimum wage, hourly rate, hours of work, description of work, other required terms of employment and other recommended terms of employment - out of which minimum wage and hourly rate have not been adhered to.

This is probably the only thing that the US Prosecutors got right and it shows that both Devyani & Sangeeta are complicit in this fraud.


What i want to know is how Richard managed to convince the Authorities that she was coerced into servitude. Are American Authorities allowed to interpret the fact that Devyani paid Richard Rs.30,000/- monthly outside the submitted agreement as a scheme to indirectly force Sangeetha Richard into servitude? The only way i think Richard convinced authorities is if she told them that she was either ignorant or if Devyani never mentioned that the secondary contract she signed in India would not hold ground on American soil. If this is the case then as per the TVPA, American Authorities have no choice but to protect the Richards' interests. The American Authorities won't care if the Richards' are greedy masterminds whom Devyani treated properly since they have no choice but to abide by the TVPA.

Richards only defense is playing a dumb innocent victim, of which she is neither. And there is no mention of Involuntary Servitude ever in this case. Its quite clear that Richards knew what she was going to be paid before coming to US and even after when she had disputes with the salary she could have always returned, but after tasting US like Richards got greedy and tried to extort a Green Card which lead to this whole mess.


By your own admission in your earlier post, the Marshall is no legal expert. His job was to bring in Devyani on charges of conduct in accordance with the TVPA. From the details of the charges the US Marshall was probably not debriefed as to whether Richard was abused by Devyani and only knows that Devyani was involved in "Human Trafficking".

Please again, why are you brining up Human Trafficking needlessly. The original charges under which Devyani was arrested only said VISA fraud and lying to the govt.

Can charges from a career prosecutor be questioned on the basis of profiling targets? If so, then don't you think he would've lost some credibility by now? On the other hand in Devyani's case, she has actually committed fraud and as per the TVPA is

No, I won't think that US Justice Dept would go after one of their own. Devyani has "allgedly" commited fraud. She is silent on this whole matter because her lawyers told her to. Which is giving the prosecution all the time make this into a media trial. Preet Bahara is just ruffling feathers, Please please show me source where the TVPA has anything to do with this case. !

The fact that NGO US Humans Right Watch is defending the US Government suggests that Devyani can be found guilty as per the TVPA.

NGO's can do whatever they want, doesn't affect the legal outcome one bit.

Your missing my point. What political mileage can Bharara gain from exploiting this case that doesn't benefit the American public in any way? There's no basis for personal motive, unless he consciously knew that this would blow up into an international incident.

Preet Bahara is making a career of these type of high profile cases. Plain and simple. "Champion of Justice", he's trying to be Harvey Dent.

LASTLY - Please don't cook up your own facts.

 

[blr_p]

He is trophy hunting.

Yes

Similar disputes were always settled out of court previously without arrests.

In 2011 it was settled outside court with Piyush Dayal. The one last year with neena malhotra ended up with a court charging her with $1.5m in damages in favour of the maid. Thing is malhotra was not even in the country when the sentence was pronounced. Were you even aware of it. Were there any threads created here or elsewhere. I recall seeing an article or two in the paper and that was it. In comparison this one became headline news.

Thing is we had this 100 fighter jet requirement thing going on then, nobody wanted to piss us off. Then we settled on Rafale a year back.[DOUBLEPOST=1387529255][/DOUBLEPOST]

Let's request all NRIs to come back. In addition, let's all stop using products from American companies.

Shit, I guess I'll have burn my house.

That's not what i'm referring to. I mean the billion dollar contracts related to defense or nuclear power plants.

 

[onlyravi]

.....
2) A deputy consular general FROM INDIA REPRESENTS INDIA IN A POSITIVE FASHION.
....

Ya Right.... So if there are few gay US diplomats in India means every American is GAY????
No wonder they run to countries like Russia/China to adopt babies

Loosen up guys.... Nobody is milk washed .... US thought of having some fun fingering India.... we are just playing along..... thats it.... Modi Promise