I had been wanting to purchase a 6.5 kg LG 6 motion machine, but was also considering a Bosch initially, but changed my mind to consider a Siemens machine (since Bosch wasn't DD). I was so confused and coudn't gather the required information despite extensive research, and was about to give up, till I found this post a few days ago. And I'm really thankful to know that this could be the place that could alleviate my predicament.
How did you zero in on 6.5 kg ?
Dimensions for LG 5, 6 & 6.5 kg indicate same size drums as mentioned earlier. So the larger weight means more programs. Only programs you will mostly need are cottons, synthetics, mix & delicates, wash temps 30,40,60 & 90.
You will never be able to fit 5 kg dry weight of clothes into any of them, more like 2-2.5 kg which is the usable weight. Usable weight is what you care about and not some number in the brochure. The bosch siemens will be 20% larger for the same size. Work out your wash load for the week as indicated in my last post. How many 20 litre buckets can you fill in a week.
Read this to know pros & cons of DD vs not.
Direct drive vs Indirect drive
DD means less sound. DD means smaller drum for 6.5 kg and below. The 10 yr warranty is a bit of a gimmick. Motors don't usually give out. The motor for a LG costs one third that of a bosch going by prices on spares websites. If you watch videos for DD motor change its quite simple. However, bearings changes or drum support replacement are much more involved and labour intensive.
What is most likely to happen is with the bosch/siemens that brushes need to be replaced, this isn't expensive and easily done. Then control boards can fail if there is too much fluctuation in power or excessive humidity, prices for these are similar with either brand. And finally drum spider failure.
The LG's have replaceable spiders, the bosch/siemens have the spider attached to the drum so require the drum to be replaced as well. You can tell bearings are going when the machine starts to make more noise, it means water has entered the seal and the bearings are slowly but surely grinding away. This is the time to replace the seal & bearings. If you do that then its good for another 5 years. Course there is the control board and spider after as well.
Why not enquire at the service centre for prices of the above parts + labour with both companies ? Then you will have an idea of any future costs (adjust for inflation) over the lifetime of the unit
I was slightly tempted towards the Siemens, because of German technology, but sadly, I have, till now, heard only horror stories from many disgruntled customers about Siemens' pathetic after-sales service. The customer service personnel at Siemens never answer the phone initially, and one has to try several times to get them to answer the phone. Once connected, they say they would send an engineer on a particular day, and the person, invariably, doesn't show up. Apart from that, the spare parts are not easily available, and have to be imported (time taken would be around 15 days), and are very expensive, probably because they are imported from Germany and there is that dreaded currency conversion from Euros to INR. In addition, there almost always seems to be a problem of drum breakage for most customers, before or just about when the warranty period expires. I also read that Siemens reported multiple drum breakages / breakdowns for machines, about a year or two ago. When I enquired about this with the sales representative displaying the machine in their showroom, he said that it was because of problems due to improper transporting, which I find hard to believe. Even the service engineers charge a bomb, for just a diagnosis, without confirmation whether they can solve the problem (the amount charged by Siemens is about 2-3 times more than what LG charges, apparently). The parts are imported from Germany, and are therefore expensive. Are the service engineers imported from Germany too??
after sales service is a tricky to work out and depends where you live. Tier 1 cities will be better than Tier 2. Generally i find people are happy with LG washers and service provided.
Can you provide a link for those multiple drum breakages ? or are you going by posts on the consumer complaints website.
Drum failure, more accurately drum spider/support failure is a combination of chemical & mechanical.
The drum is stainless steel of uncertain grade, the spider which is that 3 legged thing at the back of the drum is aluminium alloy. It corrodes over time due to incorrect dosage of washing powder or using cheap powders that are too alkaline. the more expensive powders are buffered so do better at keeping the ph around 8-10. The maintenance boil wash once a month helps to clean out deposits that get stuck to the spider and delay corrosion. Then there is hard water which causes limescale to accumulate. How hard is it. Double dose of detergent can handle it but if its very hard then you need something else. So impurities in the water is a major contributor. You cannot determine any of this from the numerous complaints of drum failure.
If the drum spider is corroding then mechanical action will weaken it further. Overloading puts more stress on the drum & bearings. As does high rpm spins. As does unbalanced loads. When i hear about early drum spider failure i think abuse of the machine is the most likely cause or a lack of knowledge in how to use the machine. Who does the washing ? somebody that knows how to use the machine or somebody that wants to get the wash load done. Are they going to care about dosage or loading. None of this is apparent in the complaints either.
Finally disabuse yourself of siemens/bosch being german made. They are made in numerous countries around the world, China, Thailand, Poland & Turkey. So the question is where do the spares come from then. From the factory that made the machine or only from Germany. I don't know that yet. The only German made machines sold in india are by Siemens and they cost 60k and above. Similar applies to LG, only the Rs.60k+ are made in Korea, otherwise all in China.
I find good availability of spares for siemens/bosh and lg. Samsung however tends to be harder and i've not found too much on them. People complain about high cost of spares which is true but lack of spares means an even higher replacement cost. Thing is to ensure you get new parts and not refurbs as those will break down sooner. The problem with new parts is nobody has inventory so they have to order them from abroad especially the more expensive parts and that means a wait time of anywhere up to 2 months. How many people can wait that long.
I had heard that LG machines too were suffering from load sensing and support breakage problems about a year or so ago. But I didn't seem to notice too many problems with LG's customer service.
This made me tilt towards the LG a bit, But regarding 6 motion technology, it is a pity that nobody knows about the technology comprehensively. After some research, I found that 6 motion is applicable only to one particular wash (as also mentioned by blr_p above), and also would come into action only after atleast an hour or two. But the supposedly "educated" sales representatives say this is not so, and that as soon as the machine starts to wash, one can see all the different motions. When enquired about how it was applicable to one type of wash cycle only, they have no idea about it, or maybe they feign ignorance. You would think LG would have provided some information related to this on their website, or educated their dealers, distributors or service engineers, but...not a thing.
Also, if 6 motion technology applies to only one wash, could you specify how many other wash cycles are there, and are there atleast 3 or 4 motions associated with these wash cycles, if not all 6? If not, then the 6 motion would probably be just a marketing gimmick.
Are there any 3rd party tests to show this 6 motion cleans any better than competing front loading machines ? no. It's just a buzz word. Koreans tend to use them a lot. Every now & then they will come up with something new
I find if you want to buy a product these days you better know it better than the guy selling it to you. The repair guys have a better idea than sales people. If its a mechanical device you better have some idea about fault fixing and repairs too. Just so you can tell when they are being honest. They are not all crooks but a lot of stuff is counter intuitive and a lack of knowledge isn't a basis to accuse anybody.
Is it really better than hand wash, as LG would like us to believe?
Better in terms of what ?
A cottons cycle on any FL is more intense than the hand wash cycle which corresponds to a delicates cycle. So if you put soiled clothes in a hand wash cycle they won't come out as clean as in a longer cottons cycle. A handwash cycle is the gentlest cycle.
A hand wash is for items that are delicate and would be damaged by a more intense program. If delicates are soiled then you will have to pre-soak them first and slowly clean them.
Now I can't decide between Siemens and LG. The only thing going in favour of Siemens is that they are German manufactured (though I think machines shipped here are from Thailand or some other place in Asia, and I don't know if they are comparable to those made in Germany), and they have a very robust and strong design and construction, and their electrical / electronic circuitry are very professional, designed to last long. The LG machines, on the other hand, supposedly have poor electrical / electronic circuitry and components, which are flimsy, unprofessionally designed, and therefore unreliable. Their PCB's supposedly conk out often.
PCB conking out is a function of power fluctuation. If your power is between 190-270 i think either will be fine but if it goes out of those bounds then some sort of stabiliser is needed. So how is the power situation for people with conked out boards. Another point is where the machine is located, is it in an area of high humidity ? High humidity isn't good for electronics. So some sort of cloth cover (old bed sheets?) needs to be used. None of these points is mentioned in any complaints is it. Living in an area with high humidity, unstable power and hard water takes its toll then add abuse and result is to kill the machine faster.
I was ready to spring for a Siemens until i discovered this low water pressure business. LG is making machines that are more suitable for India. Lower water pressure requirement. They even include a rat guard for the underside. LG's control boards are coated with a resin that makes individual component replacement difficult in case of a failure, the whole board has to be replaced. But what that resin does is add more weather resistance to the board. I don't know if Siemens control boards are similarly 'weather proofed' (if you can call it that) as well.
When looking at shipment data, for 7kg machines i found the bosch/siemens importing at 12-13.5k whereas the LG's cost 17-18k. The sales price for both is around 39-42k. It's curious that the LG's cost 40% more to import than the siemens/bosch of same capacity as well as similar order size. Whether it implies LG's are of higher quality isn't clear.
If you look at the weight of these machines the bosch will be 10-15kg heavier than the lg. That means more shipping weight. people take this heavier weight to mean extra quality but if you look at the disassembly you will notice there is a concrete necklace around the opening of the bosch. That is where the extra weight comes from. It means a more stable, less vibration for that kind of design. But the LG's have the motor on the back of the drum which serves a similar counterweight purpose with the same result.
How the machine is used/abused, maintained and cared for is more important than what country it comes from.
Also, because the machine is DD (motor directly connected to the drum), if at all any problem occurs in that "connected" part, the entire drum has to be changed. Are all of the above true?
The Bosch /Siemens require drum replacement for spider failure, the LG's show the spider as a separate component. Bear in mind that if you don't empty your pockets of coins or other items get between the drum & outer tub the outer tub which is plastic for either can be damaged.
Finally, the one last thing that still makes me want to consider Siemens is their new IQ drive machines. Are these similar to LG's DD motors, or better?
I must have visited LG's website endless times, in trying to decipher the 6 motion technology, and also gather other relevant information, hoping that they would have added "new" updated information about their existing products, but in vain. I have nothing personal against LG or Siemens, but I only wish that they would show some genuine concern for their customers - existing as well as prospective - in providing comprehensive information about their products, and satisfactory customer service, thereby assisting the customer to make an informed purchase. Maybe asking for the moon is easier.
I hope either blr_p or someone could enlighten me on all these topics. This is, without doubt, my last attempt to gather some information which, unfortunately, a prospective customer like me has to struggle to the ends of the earth, to find answers to.
IQ drive i've seen only on the iQ700-800 models, these are brushless and more silent but the price tag is 50k and above. What annoys me is you can only get mid-range in the 8kg segment. Everything below that is pretty much of the same build quality just different capacity.
IQ drive is not the same as DD. Its a quieter motor that uses belts like other motors with brushes. Nothing wrong with belts, they are cheap to replace and none of the high end washer manufacturers use DD.
