What is going to be our exit strategy?

[aahigayeham]

3) If the virus spreads to the world and starts killing off seniors everywhere and then China gets caught then they will be the international pariah with only maybe North Korea as its ally.
US has a strict policy where any bio/chemical weapon attack is treated the same as a strategic nuclear attack and it sparks off WW3.

If not that then at least China's progress gets rolled back 50 years as US already has a hard-on for China now.

While I don't believe that this contagion was devised by her, I also don't think anyone would be able to do much even if they did.

It's too ambitious of you to think that USA will be able to do much even if they find something concrete supporting their motion. China holds about 10 percent debt of USA in treasury bonds. If she ever were to liquidate it, USA's economy would plummet at a rate much steeper than 2008's, which won't end well for any country in the world.

China exercises significant influence over just about every country you can imagine. Sure, communal anger may make companies migrate their shops elsewhere which would affect China to a considerable extent but again that's as much it would be affected by.

 

[adder]

Dude in which era are you? Fines are already there but who collects them, heck who even observes who is spitting or peeing etc?
Todays not much quality is taught in schools, its just for formalities everyone has to go through a factory process.
Educaton is tutions and friends.
Parents? Both of them are earners and doubt they find time to teach their kids or even take their homework
On weekends they simply muhc on kfc mc pizzas and hotels or go outside.

How countries like Singapore enforcing them. People who routinely do this and walk the same route can be fined. There are cameras everywhere for evidence. My street has about 3 private cameras and about two powerfull zoom PtZ public cameras. Its high time we ban all those pan masala or what ever you call them.
Kids need to be taught about cleanliness, ethics, compassion even before they go to schools.

 

[red dragon]

Now, compare that to India.
1. Where are the ventilator production numbers?
2. Still importing chinese made ppe. getting ripped off for sub standard goods.
3. not sure where India is w.r.t testing large scale. still importing chinese test kits. havnt made our own tests yet.
4. General trend is that the virus will go away after some time. without taking any actions.

To be honest, I dont have any faith in Indian govt controlling the spread or minimizing the deaths. the things that scare me the most are... population density and the over worked lungs due to the amount of pollution in India. think of these two factors before comparing india to US or any other European country.

From the perspective of a deshbhakt..
1. We have developed ventilator which can hook up 50 patients in a single unit. We have a ventilator that can operate without electricity.
( Reality: Half of the doctors aged above 35 and working in government sectors have never seen a ventilator, let alone use it. I myself saw the first ventilator in a private hospital after doing MD.
The latest trend: we don't need ventilators, they have less than 20 percent success rate!! Brilliant logic. As if ventilators had 80 percent success with other terminal conditions, it's only ineffective in covid patients.
Truth is ventilator is a tool and a very important one. Nothing can replace a ventilator, even if it has 1 percent success rate.)
2. We had enough PPE ( for first few weeks of February every policy maker in India thought scrub suit is PPE, then they thought putting a layer of wear-on over that scrub suit is PPE, then came a genius with raincoat..yes it was protecting from the covid but killing the nurse/ doctor by heat exhaustion...now when the first proper kit appears, the geniuses were so heartbroken by earlier failures, they thought it must be made of some exotic material from Mars only China can import.
BTW, India has some huge factories making PPEs for oil refineries and furnace workers. The geniuses never thought of approaching them.
3. Come on, we have My lab kits (26 INR a pop) it will surely come by 2040, we will flood the world with those.
4. Please don't get me started on that..let our PM take off his shirts...the virus will run away and never ever come back... he's working on it, that's the whole point of this lockdown...
Don't listen to this hippie..he is an American spy. He is married to a snow flake, look at his beard and hair, dirty filthy brown haired firangi...calling himself an Indian...Go back to where you belong GADDAR!!( last few lines were from Twitter, thrown at me, before they locked it down)

 

[Renegade]

Seems like the tinfoil hat brigade got to you eh?

This was something that was flying around a lot on whatsapp but I googled a bit and found all this.

Oh so I wasn't the only one thinking this. Maybe I watch too many SciFi and dooms day tv series. And no I am not part any what's app groups that forward any stuff, let alone this, nor am I propagating this theory. But thanks for the detailed post. Several interesting points there.

Edit - I did hear the argument about China doing it deliberately to cripple countries. From news and Trump. What does your research say on that?

 

[Marcus Fenix]

Oh so I wasn't the only one thinking this. Maybe I watch too many SciFi and dooms day tv series. And no I am not part any what's app groups that forward any stuff, let alone this, nor am I propagating this theory. But thanks for the detailed post. Several interesting points there.

Edit - I did hear the argument about China doing it deliberately to cripple countries. From news and Trump. What does your research say on that?

Theres a theory that was floated by Fox News that the virus may have been released inadvertently from a BSL4 lab in Wuhan.

This lab does research on SARS virus and they are saying that an intern mistakenly carried the virus outside on her shoes due to not following proper protocol.

But Fox News is not news but just right wing propaganda in the US.

After Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting they were the ones who gave rise to the theory that mass shooting didn't happen and all the grieving parents of the killed children demanding gun control were in fact crisis actors.

So they have no legitimacy in my eyes.

Imagine a news channel where you have 20 hosts like Arnab Goswami with their batshit craziness multiplied by a factor of 10 and you get Fox News.

But this was then clarified later on other proper news sites like CNN

US explores possibility that coronavirus spread started in Chinese lab, not a market | CNN Politics

US intelligence and national security officials say the United States government is looking into the possibility that the novel coronavirus spread from a Chinese laboratory rather than a market, according to multiple sources familiar with the matter who caution it is premature to draw any...

edition.cnn.com

How did coronavirus start and where did it come from? Was it really Wuhan’s animal market?

It’s likely Covid-19 originated in bats, scientists say. But did it then spread to pangolins and humans?

www.theguardian.com

Why these scientists still doubt the coronavirus leaked from a Chinese lab

A Wuhan lab studied SARS-related viruses. But there’s no evidence it discovered or was working on the new virus.

www.vox.com

They are exploring the theory based on the circumstantial fact that Wuhan has a BSL4 lab which had some issues with proper handling of bio samples as per BSL4 guidelines in the past.

This may be a ploy for Trump to deflect blame for the way he handled the pandemic but then again its a long way to go and prove this theory.

As for China doing this deliberately like I said the risks far outweigh the benefits of such a maskivrovka operation.

However the Chinese are quick to exploit the confusion created by this situation.

Opinion | How China’s fake news machine is rewriting the history of Covid-19, even as the pandemic unfolds

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson’s retweet of an article blaming the U.S. for infecting Wuhan with coronavirus went viral, viewed 160 million times within hours. But where did the story come from?

www.politico.com

 

[tech.monk]

While I don't believe that this contagion was devised by her, I also don't think anyone would be able to do much even if they did.

It's too ambitious of you to think that USA will be able to do much even if they find something concrete supporting their motion. China holds about 10 percent debt of USA in treasury bonds. If she ever were to liquidate it, USA's economy would plummet at a rate much steeper than 2008's, which won't end well for any country in the world.

China exercises significant influence over just about every country you can imagine. Sure, communal anger may make companies migrate their shops elsewhere which would affect China to a considerable extent but again that's as much it would be affected by.

I would like to bring in another perspective, do we see how HDFC shares bought by the Chinese Central Bank at rock bottom prices and why in the world - all countries are restraining themselves from China buying stocks of their Industries - Why Japan is asking all the companies which are manufacturing the goods in China to move out.

Their was one speculative theory of China withheld the outbreak information to use it for their own benefit (by using their forex to get control of other countries profitable businesses at rock bottom prices - what they precisely did with HDFC - post which our Indian Govt. corrected the FDI policy). After all they have highest forex reserve ($3.87 trillion according Investopedia).

 

[psyph3r]

I would trust Nature magazine where Nobel laureates' papers are published a lot more than any whackjob spouting off on social media.

But this was then clarified later on other proper news sites like CNN

Lol you called Fox News fake and then went on to call CNN legit, one is Zee news and the other is the equivalent of Republic TV, i.e., both are trash.
Problem with this whole CV situation is that even the experts and news channels constantly contradict themselves and when they are presented with their own conflicting reports they issue apologies/updates/retractions.
This is from Nature.com from a few years ago that contradicts the one you posted.

Engineered bat virus stirs debate over risky research - Nature

Lab-made coronavirus related to SARS can infect human cells.

www.nature.com

and a couple of months ago they reported this

A pneumonia outbreak associated with a new coronavirus of probable bat origin - Nature

Characterization of full-length genome sequences from patients infected with a new coronavirus (2019-nCoV) shows that the sequences are nearly identical and indicates that the virus is related to a bat coronavirus.

www.nature.com

That second article is written by Peng Zhou, who was a researcher at the Wuhan institute of Virology and his works are now apparently being looked at by Five Eyes so it's too early to write anything off at this point of time.
My point being, no one knows anything for certain expecially these "experts" and news channels which constantly contradict each other, pretty much on a weekly basis now.

 

[Marcus Fenix]

Lol you called Fox News fake and then went on to call CNN legit, one is Zee news and the other is the equivalent of Republic TV, i.e., both are trash.
Problem with this whole CV situation is that even the experts and news channels constantly contradict themselves and when they are presented with their own conflicting reports they issue apologies/updates/retractions.
This is from Nature.com from a few years ago that contradicts the one you posted.

Engineered bat virus stirs debate over risky research - Nature

Lab-made coronavirus related to SARS can infect human cells.

www.nature.com

and a couple of months ago they reported this

A pneumonia outbreak associated with a new coronavirus of probable bat origin - Nature

Characterization of full-length genome sequences from patients infected with a new coronavirus (2019-nCoV) shows that the sequences are nearly identical and indicates that the virus is related to a bat coronavirus.

www.nature.com

That second article is written by Peng Zhou, who was a researcher at the Wuhan institute of Virology and his works are now apparently being looked at by Five Eyes so it's too early to write anything off at this point of time.
My point being, no one knows anything for certain expecially these "experts" and news channels which constantly contradict each other, pretty much on a weekly basis now.

Yeah I get your point when it comes to the US liberal news orgs nowadays with their vitriol for Trump and his ilk which sometimes is over the top.

However they don't piss on you and call it rain as consistently as Fox News.

If you check the first article there's an editors' note there-

You can see the lineage with the Nature article I posted where they say that the bioreceptors of the COVID virus doesn't match up wuth human capabilties.

In case of your article its clearly laid out that this experimental chimaera is a mishmash of parts from various naturally occurring viral strains.

And never go by the panel "experts" on news channels who are attention mongers for 5 minutes of TV fame. In most cases these guys are not the Tier 1 operators in their subject area.

Just look at the example of HCQ which was peddled by the celebrity TV show host Dr. Oz (who is a cardiothoracic surgeon by training) on Fox and it was picked up by Trump.

As for Peng Zhou's article I didn't see any red flags but then again we can depend on the Five Eyes to find out if this was released by mistake and then covered up by the politburo by placing the blame on the wet market.

As for China buying up distressed stocks its their usual MO. Opening the doors to them in 2001 WTO was a bad mistake by the west in the hopes that China would liberalize like the west with open markets and democracy. In fact the reverse happened. China locked down their domestic area and now they have started spreading their tentacles to the rest of the world countering western political and economic hegemony post USSR collapse.

Hopefully once the pandemic slows down the world wakes up to China's crap and actively counter and isolate them economically and politically.

P.S. I get that Australia is a part of FIve Eyes to counter China but I never understood how the f*** New Zealand is a part of the Five Eyes. They are a tiny nation on one desolate corner of the world where no one has much in the name of geopolitical interest.

 

[psyph3r]

If you check the first article there's an editors' note there-

That was what I was referring to in my comment, if it isn't considered true why did they post it on their site in the first place ?

You can see the lineage with the Nature article I posted where they say that the bioreceptors of the COVID virus doesn't match up wuth human capabilties.

I was trying to keep it simple, if you want to go into much detail here's an excerpt from the telegraph today:

"It can be revealed that Zhou — the head of the Bat Virus Infection and Immunity Project at the Wuhan Institute of Virology — spent three years at the bio-containment facility, Australian Animal Health Laboratory between 2011 and 2014, where he was sent by China to complete his doctorate.
During this time, Zhou arranged for wild-caught bats to be transported alive by air from Queensland to the Australian Animal Health Laboratory in Victoria where they were euthanised for dissection and studied for deadly viruses.
His work was funded jointly by the CSIRO and the Chinese Academy of Sciences.
It examined bat immunology and the role of interferons and how “bats are rich reservoirs for emerging viruses, including many that are highly pathogenic to humans and other mammals” and “many of which cause significant morbidity and mortality in humans and other mammals.”

Now Zhou's assistant in Australia was a researcher named Zhengli-Li-Shi, who has co-authored a paper describing the creation of a new virus combining a coronavirus found in Chinese horseshoe bats with another that causes SARS like symptoms in mice.
You can read that paper here if you can understand it, I sure as hell don't. That's where the whole man-made angle is stemming from, not whatsapp forwards or Fox News.

A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence - PMC

Ralph Baric, Vineet Menachery and colleagues characterize a SARS-like coronavirus circulating in Chinese horseshoe bats to determine its potential to infect primary human airway epithelial cells, cause disease in mice and respond to available ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

And never go by the panel "experts" on news channels who are attention mongers for 5 minutes of TV fame. In most cases these guys are not the Tier 1 operators in their subject area.

I wasn't referring to TV experts at all, I'm talking about all the other virologists and professors who cannot seem to agree on even one point, points which the mainstream media then propagates.
For e.g., all these years sneezes and coughs were known to spread droplets across 5 metres minimum, now they've reached this magical 6 feet number.
In the beginning of the pandemic they said higher temperatures won't matter and it will still spread, now 2 days ago they have flip flopped and said higher temperatures are a factor in reduced cases. Then they said it cannot be transmitted to animals and now they are reporting cats can get infected as well lol.
One thing is for certain, no one knows jack sh*t.

Post automatically merged: Apr 28, 2020

P.S. I get that Australia is a part of FIve Eyes to counter China but I never understood how the f*** New Zealand is a part of the Five Eyes. They are a tiny nation on one desolate corner of the world where no one has much in the name of geopolitical interest.

It's almost as if they are vassal states of Great Britain, worst part is people seem to be fine with their intelligence apparatus being mixed up with that of other countries.

 

[Marcus Fenix]

That was what I was referring to in my comment, if it isn't considered true why did they post it on their site in the first place ?

The original article was posted in 2015 and in March 2020 they had to add a note to counter the sharing of this article to non-SMEs like us to propagate the human engineering theory.

As for the other things point taken Mr. Illuminati...

Jeez.... If they had some hand in enginering this bugger then it would be a great leap forward for Chinese virologists in terms of reverence for their skills and a great leap backwards for China in the geopolitical and economic domain.

 

[adder]

But this was then clarified later on other proper news sites like CNN

CNN is proper news, that's is left wing fake news.. During the 2016 till now how many times have they been caught with fake news. They are a sworn anti trumper.Just look at all the press conference questions with trump.
There is a reasons CNN is down in polls and Fox on top. Truth lies some where in the middle, if I want see US caught with their pants down I see RT, they cover the news which US news channels won't. When it comes to internationals matters, the deep state controls all the US media with respect to the US narrative. Look at all the fake news coming out of syria, yemen.

If china believed that the this virus came from the wet market, they should have shut it down, last I heard its all business as usual in those markets except for shanghai. The CCP are known to lie to their teeth, the only reason the world is currently going soft on china is because even during this crysis they have to rely on them for masks, PPE, test kits, medicine and its raw materials. Once all recover, every developed country perhaps even some developing countries like ours will train their cannons at china.

 

[tech.monk]

Once all recover, every developed country perhaps even some developing countries like ours will train their cannons at china.

And their will be world war 3

 

[booo]

That was what I was referring to in my comment, if it isn't considered true why did they post it on their site in the first place ?



I was trying to keep it simple, if you want to go into much detail here's an excerpt from the telegraph today:

Now Zhou's assistant in Australia was a researcher named Zhengli-Li-Shi, who has co-authored a paper describing the creation of a new virus combining a coronavirus found in Chinese horseshoe bats with another that causes SARS like symptoms in mice.
You can read that paper here if you can understand it, I sure as hell don't. That's where the whole man-made angle is stemming from, not whatsapp forwards or Fox News.

A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence - PMC

Ralph Baric, Vineet Menachery and colleagues characterize a SARS-like coronavirus circulating in Chinese horseshoe bats to determine its potential to infect primary human airway epithelial cells, cause disease in mice and respond to available ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I wasn't referring to TV experts at all, I'm talking about all the other virologists and professors who cannot seem to agree on even one point, points which the mainstream media then propagates.
For e.g., all these years sneezes and coughs were known to spread droplets across 5 metres minimum, now they've reached this magical 6 feet number.
In the beginning of the pandemic they said higher temperatures won't matter and it will still spread, now 2 days ago they have flip flopped and said higher temperatures are a factor in reduced cases. Then they said it cannot be transmitted to animals and now they are reporting cats can get infected as well lol.
One thing is for certain, no one knows jack sh*t.

Post automatically merged: Apr 28, 2020

It's almost as if they are vassal states of Great Britain, worst part is people seem to be fine with their intelligence apparatus being mixed up with that of other countries.

 

[psyph3r]

^Long time ADV subscriber here, haven't followed their individual channels in a long time though, will check this one out.

 

[blr_p]

^^ You can not just mention countries at your convenience mate.
Do you know how much have they tested ( let's just say almost double per million of South Korea)
They announced lockdown with cases less than 100 with zero deaths.
Their geographical position is so unique that they can go for "complete elimination" method.
They had exit plans before they announced lockdown.
You can not test the lowest number and expect to get away unscathed like countries which planned and worked hard.
Stop mentioning R0 of other countries, IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.
India couldn't even plan properly for a single small city, yet you are dreaming like New Zealanders, beautiful!!

I'm talking about places that have succeeded. There are areas in the country that are C19 free.

The country is divided into districts. Fight one district at a time.

And R0 does not make any sense for you, it does for leaders. i follow the managers not the medics.

This is all politics. The doctors do not know enough to help here. The research is only starting here and how useful it is to policy makers is to be seen.

You can give your advice they decide. I'm more concerned on what criteria they use to decide whether a place goes into lock down or not.

What they decide is working or not.

Post automatically merged: May 7, 2020

From the perspective of a deshbhakt..
1. We have developed ventilator which can hook up 50 patients in a single unit. We have a ventilator that can operate without electricity.
( Reality: Half of the doctors aged above 35 and working in government sectors have never seen a ventilator, let alone use it. I myself saw the first ventilator in a private hospital after doing MD.
The latest trend: we don't need ventilators, they have less than 20 percent success rate!! Brilliant logic. As if ventilators had 80 percent success with other terminal conditions, it's only ineffective in covid patients.
Truth is ventilator is a tool and a very important one. Nothing can replace a ventilator, even if it has 1 percent success rate.)
2. We had enough PPE ( for first few weeks of February every policy maker in India thought scrub suit is PPE, then they thought putting a layer of wear-on over that scrub suit is PPE, then came a genius with raincoat..yes it was protecting from the covid but killing the nurse/ doctor by heat exhaustion...now when the first proper kit appears, the geniuses were so heartbroken by earlier failures, they thought it must be made of some exotic material from Mars only China can import.
BTW, India has some huge factories making PPEs for oil refineries and furnace workers. The geniuses never thought of approaching them.
3. Come on, we have My lab kits (26 INR a pop) it will surely come by 2040, we will flood the world with those.
4. Please don't get me started on that..let our PM take off his shirts...the virus will run away and never ever come back... he's working on it, that's the whole point of this lockdown...
Don't listen to this hippie..he is an American spy. He is married to a snow flake, look at his beard and hair, dirty filthy brown haired firangi...calling himself an Indian...Go back to where you belong GADDAR!!( last few lines were from Twitter, thrown at me, before they locked it down)

1. the ventilator bogey has shown for what it is. NY governor wanted 40k ventialtors. Trump told him he could have only 4k. Now NY does not know what to do with them. Kerela treated all its cases with just 7 ventilators. We have enough and the scare mongers have been called out.

2. PPE was another bogey, not enough, a month passes then another and surprise surprise we have enough. another false dilemma. You were the one going on about how doctors getting sick despite proper procedure. Did it ever strike it you that doctors were getting infected just like every one else was ? their family, their coworkers, not adhering to proper sical distancing etc. have you studied NYC btw, their health care workers have the lowest infection rates in the world. What are they doing differently.

3. We've crossed a million tests. What are they using then. We test 75k daily targeting 100k. This from a humble beginning of just 500 tests as of Mar 13. Another scare that went away. The positivity rates remain low for country of this size. It's higher in hotspots. It's one in 110 in my state. So we do 5,000 just to find 50.

4. this is the part that is open. How do we live with this virus assuming no vaccine is forthcoming. Agree that suppression alone isn't enough. it means people will continue to get infected and die but i'm sure we will never see the deaths per capita of the western countries. I'm also questioning the way they record their deaths. They seem to use a very inclusive way of doing it. India is more strict about it. Unless you're confirmed positive and show definite symptoms when you die only then will you be classed as C19 death. All these co-morbidities in other countries result in deaths. If C19 wasn't the primary cause it won't count as such.

US, UK, France , Spain & Italy have inflated death rates. There is more going on there than meets the eye. UK lists no recovered. Very strange so if not every one that gets infected dies then what are they classified as. They don't. They're forgotten.

 

[red dragon]

Wow!! How did I unblock this fellow!! Sure, go ahead and follow all the managers, mantris etc.
Now I understand, you're one of those manager types constantly bothering the professionals with dress codes, hair etc.etc.
Fortunately people like you ( please don't consider this as an insult, I meant goodie boys like you, always scared of authority, followers of the government, death scared of going against their guidelines, perfect corporate employees) will be gradually eliminated from all professional fields.
People like you will never understand the tragedy in death of a single patient without ventilator. To a manager 1 death means nothing ( as they see it on papers/ screen) For us every single death of a patient changes us inside. It is difficult to explain, unless you see real people dying in real CCUs, no amount of videos, papers, articles will be able to take you to that state of mind.
As I said repeatedly earlier, I have become a hardened person, death does not affect me much anymore. But in absence of a ventilator I kept on pressing the ambu bag for close to 6 hours, knowing the moment I stop it, the patient gonna die. Everyone was so busy at that particular night, I could not ask for help (knowing if I give it to some nurse, she will stop after 10 minutes, as they are afraid of breaking protocols and I love to break `em) Anyway I almost collapsed around 7 in the morning, patient was hooked to a ventilator eventually but succumbed after another couple of days. This is what happens in reality. So when political leaders say we have enough ventilators/ ventilators are not necessary in type 2 respiratory failure....they deserve middle fingers from every sensible people.
Regarding PPE, we (who are supplied with WHO PPEs) have the best possible PPEs available right from the beginning. I am very careless with it, yet didnt catch it. My wife totally OCD with PPE, protection etc got infected. Luck?