What's your perspective on the India's future?

[rocking]

Reservation is about representation of the voiceless not eradication or uplifting anyone from poverty. Its a number on paper decided based on whatever influences/past exploitation one group faced and has long forgotten. There is always a gap in all measures undertaken by the Govt and many are still ignored/forgotten. Whether this has done enough to the needy or caused damage cannot be deducted without a proper census across the country but no one wants to dig that, esp politicians do not like to open that box.

So, we cannot claim it as major issue just because a few handful couldn't get into the college they desire.

Spoiler: Intrusive thought

Some would even say, a country of 1.45 billion people mostly filled with below avg IQ individuals & hasn't done anything significant in its known history should not cry foul over reservation.

PEACE !!

You are totally not getting the basic point. There are different ways to uplift a society. A simple question is that person with 90% score is capable to be doing things better or a 20% or 30% ?

You want a doctor with high merit or none? You want a teacher for your child who know nothing about their subject? Would you put your life and your future at risk because some says your ancestors treated them poorly and now you want to fix it?

You will always choose people with high merit for your work. if not, just hire a teacher for your children, docter for your family who scored very less and is from something call backward class. are you going to ?

Casteism is a social thing, it can't be a weapon to destroy the future of India. One doesn't need to be marry in different caste to overcome poverty.

This kind of two-faced discrimination with people having high merit only gonna put more hatred towards people who never gonna do their work efficiently and perfectly and only putting India's future at risk.

 

[Darth Vader]

You are totally not getting the basic point. There are different ways to uplift a society. A simple question is that person with 90% score is capable to be doing things better or a 20% or 30% ?

You want a doctor with high merit or none? You want a teacher for your child who know nothing about their subject? Would you put your life and your future at risk because some says your ancestors treated them poorly and now you want to fix it?

You will always choose people with high merit for your work. if not, just hire a teacher for your children, docter for your family who scored very less and is from something call backward class. are you going to ?

Casteism is a social thing, it can't be a weapon to destroy the future of India. One doesn't need to be marry in different caste to overcome poverty.

This kind of two-faced discrimination with people having high merit only gonna put more hatred towards people who never gonna do their work efficiently and perfectly and only putting India's future at risk.

You're over exaggerating things. How many doctors become one without any merit ?? Do you really think one can become a doctor/scientist because they got a seat after scoring 20% or 30% ? How many incompetent professonals arise out of reservation ? Do you have any data for that ?

You're portraying reservation as some Gloom and doom that just stopped this country from progressing. What this country accomplished before reservation ?? If it wasnt for the colonizers, we would still be running without clothes like remote african tribes and burning widows.

The entire private Sector esp IT sector has no reservation , how many AI scientist we have in India ? How many Oracle/Google/Intel/Nvidia we have in India ? How many Deepseek like AI we developed with so much unrestricted talent ? Does reservation stop you from doing any of that ?

Casteism is a disgusting system still alive, hence the reservation. Reservation doesn't resolve poverty,only a representation in everything that was denied. Reservation isn't destroying India, it never was and never will.

Real talent always find its way, get over it guys.

 

[NikhilSingh25]

If it wasnt for the colonizers, we would still be running without clothes like remote african tribes and burning widows.

Wow, I express my gratitude to those colonizers.

 

[anpl]

highly taxed nation

 

[roadrash99]

Found a good clip debunking the myth that Indians are leaving because of reservation: https://www.instagram.com/lakhshya_speaks/reel/DHvX3lSzVwE/

The size of India’s Formal Employment sector is 31.8 million, out of which only 3.13 million are Public Sector jobs (Government jobs), which means only 9.8% of jobs in the Formal sector are Government jobs.
Now only 50% of Government jobs are reserved, which means only 4.9% of India’s Formal Sector jobs are reserved for SC, ST and OBC, which constitute more than 50% of India’s population.
Less than 5% of jobs are reserved for more than 50% of the country’s marginalised populations. This is the situation even today.
Right off the bat, 62% of college seats in India are in Private Colleges which have no reservations at all.
Out of the 38% of college seats which are in Government colleges, 50% of them, which is 19% of college seats are reserved for SC, ST and OBC applicants combined.
SC, ST and OBC communities, which constitute more than 50% of India’s population, only have 19% of college seats reserved for them.
Mind you, this inequality is purely from a statistical point of view, if we consider the drop-out rate, caste harassment, and suicide rate of the SC, ST and OBC communities in Educational institutions, the appalling nature of systemic casteism will be in a much clearer view.

Sources:
- 2011 census, Government of India
- All India Status of Higher Education Report 2011-2012, MHRD, Government of India
- Size of Public Sector: “Job at hand: India far behind other nations in public sector employment”, Business Standard
- Size of Formal Sector: “India’s formal sector employment jumps by 0.4 million in January-March quarter”, The Economic Times

Topics: Reservation, Caste, Brain Drain, आरक्षण, Dr. Ambedkar, Private Sector Jobs, Public Sector Jobs, Employment, Education, Discrimination, Equality, Social Justice

 

[kiran6680]

think reservation today is no longer a solution for solving poverty, backwardness or castism.

While @Darth Vader has covered many points, there are more :

1. Most important, so needs repetition : this is a fundamental, extreme, and at times deliberate ignorance of the basics of the Constitution of India. Reservation was never for poverty. And for casteism, it's not a "solution" but one of the many needed counter measures.

2. Take my example. I had a casteist upbringing. Until 17 years of age, I had not met SC people except as servants, doing odd small jobs etc. I genuinely thought they are dirty, stupid etc.
Then I got into a college, with reservations. I saw them as equals, even normal humans for the first time. Many of my batchmates had the same realisation. Some even married SC batchmates.
If this is not combating casteism, I don't know what is. Where is the data to consider reservation is not reducing casteism - I directly observe it to be working.

3. Yes, the founding fathers implemented reservation for only 10 years - but they had seen enormous social progressivism in recent decades. A person talking against casteism was almost worshipped by innumerable people.
But once we lost our common "enemy" (British) and also the Mahatma, we slowly found it better to fight among ourselves rather than raise ourselves. Just see that we haven't created a top 200 University in last 50 years, but fighting for seats in the older ones. Before that, we were creating universities that were recognised within a decade or two to be world class.

Returning to our main point, reservation is no longer an antidote for castism.

If it was, then we would have been cured by now. It's been 75 years

This is like : Food is no longer an antidote for hunger, because people still feel hungry. Let's stop eating food.
Do you have scientific data to support this statement, that this country is trying its best to prevent from getting collected?

 

[Kloud]

Do you have scientific data to support this statement, that this country is trying its best to prevent from getting collected?

1. What about the fact that, reservations are abused/scammed by rich people? These wealthy individuals are preventing those in genuine need from accessing it.

2. Why can't it be a scholarship or fully paid education solely based on financially (properly verified) weaker background? Rather than the caste and marks. I don't understand how can an IAS or a doctor's kid claim a reservation?

3. Not all upper caste people are rich. Some of them are extremely poor. Also, numerous castes/tribes (as I explained in my last post) which are extreme backwards, didn't get any reservation. Is it fair? Nowadays, the reservation is crossing 50% in some states. That's also okay?

4. Caste persists partly because the government supports it. When I fill out government forms, I must state my caste and religion. No one else asks for this information.

Anyway, I'm out of this discussion. The reservation, castism are unsolvable problems. It's not in my hands. No matter what, I think, it won't make any difference. And as a grown up, I don't get to live in a hypothetic dreamy land where everything works as it should be. Waste of time it is.

 

[kiran6680]

Why can't it be a scholarship or fully paid education solely based on financially (properly verified) weaker background? Rather than the caste and marks. I don't understand how can an IAS or a doctor's kid claim a reservation?

Anyway, I'm out of this discussion.

You have been out of the discussion for a while, because it has been pointed out at least thrice in this discussion that it is not about finance. It has also been explained with data and examples. But you have not read it.

 

[Pyception]

It's funny you haven't provided any data point on how reservation is helping the issue instead just shared your life experience. But in the end you demanded scientific data point.

Let's say I just want to learn about how reservations solving the problem.
My main concerns are-
1.It is just helping top 5 percent sc / st people
2.People who need it are not able to get it
3. What should be the end goal

Remove reservations and bring something that actually help people in need. I know color racism is not the same problem but USA (world) have done more progress in eliminating the issue.

 

[rocking]

My initial point is to uplift the poors, give them the facilities required including free food, library, school/college fees. Part time jobs by creating manufacturing units, factories.

Giving jobs without merit is wrong. You can't just make it right by comparing things.

People moving abroad means they are giving priority to 2nd best candidate.

i don't even treat people differently but if my children with 90% fail and suicide and 20% score get a seat then the hate will grow, more over time. it is no one fault to be born in a decent family.

i will no longer argue over this, if removing reservation will not give anything better, reservation is not going to make it better but worst.

 

[kiran6680]

It's funny you haven't provided any data point on how reservation is helping the issue instead just shared your life experience. But in the end you demanded scientific data point.

If it's me you're asking this, for once I'll get down to kindergarten level to explain this :

1. Claim is the absence of caste bias reduction in anyone.
2. I saw caste bias reduction in me and many others. Directly contradicting the claim.
3. X person NOT seeing a reduction in anyone does NOT give evidence of actual absence of reduction.

Absence is fundamentally difficult to prove. Some even say "you cannot prove a negative".

 

[anmolkumar10]

it is no one fault to be born in a decent family

And what's the definition of a decent family? And what is its relevance to caste?

 

[Pyception]

If it's me you're asking this, for once I'll get down to kindergarten level to explain this :

1. Claim is the absence of caste bias reduction in anyone.
2. I saw caste bias reduction in me and many others. Directly contradicting the claim.
3. X person NOT seeing a reduction in anyone does NOT give evidence of actual absence of reduction.

Absence is fundamentally difficult to prove. Some even say "you cannot prove a negative".

Thanks yes, my reply was for your post.

Discrimination still happens I am not denying that. We all hears news about how grooms are denied horse, how women's from lower caste are exploited in village.
Reservation was a novel idea but implementation was bad and now it is just used as vote bank for politician.

Some people suggested inter caste marriage? Bro many people don't even do marriage with someone from different surname but same community? Leave general caste even one SC caste will not marriage with ST or even other SC caste.

IMO Reservation itself is discrimination against merit and only increasing hate against lower caste.

 

[Darth Vader]

And what's the definition of a decent family? And what is its relevance to caste?

The more you dig, the more dirt.

 

[bssunilreddy]

My initial point is to uplift the poors, give them the facilities required including free food, library, school/college fees. Part time jobs by creating manufacturing units, factories.

Giving jobs without merit is wrong. You can't just make it right by comparing things.

People moving abroad means they are giving priority to 2nd best candidate.

i don't even treat people differently but if my children with 90% fail and suicide and 20% score get a seat then the hate will grow, more over time. it is no one fault to be born in a decent family.

i will no longer argue over this, if removing reservation will not give anything better, reservation is not going to make it better but worst.

Reservations did indeed improved & upgraded the lives of many I know and grew with. Even now there are pockets in rural India where people from under privileged classes living & earning less and not able to study also. What about them?
Since major state govts are giving free ration, free current, free education, fees reimbursements, loan reimbursements, free health cards etc people have been able to make their children read and write and see their children grow into intellectuals.
I have a niece whose father died when she was 8 years old and she is now studying physiotherapy with the help of my sister from Canada who funds her studies.
This is how NRIs are either sending money back to buy real estate and help others or help their community. They are not forgetting how they ended up there because we Indians always think of Home and never forget it.

Since my sister is funding my niece she is studying but who will fund all those who earn ₹700 per day labourers? It's the govts of the respective states.

This kind of schemes were 1st introduced by Late Mr. YS.Rajashekar Reddy Ex CM of AP in 2004 and now almost all south states and some North states are giving his schemes in their regions.
This is the success formula for everybody.

Reservations based not on caste but on economically backwardness of people will bring greater results because we have entered into 21st century and are into 25th year already. It's high time that central govt should amend the necessary sections to provide Reservations to all those who need them and that includes upper castes as well.

Then this stigma of Reservations being eaten by ST, SC & BCs will go away. No one will raise a hand against them accusing them or talk in hushed tones that they are being given more seats while OCs are suffering.

YS. Rajashekar Reddy even brought 5% Reservations to Muslims but it was quashed by the AP High Court after he died in an accident.

We all are Indians and we should help our fellow country men who ever they may be of belonging to, we should lend a hand in their upliftment by asking the respective State govts to bring or amend laws to give equal rights in all respects.
When all states demand then centre will make amendments for the 21st century because by that time states will be following what people asked. This is how one can learn from one another and you know that former US president introduced Obama Care after he came to learn about YS Rajashekar Reddys "Arogyasri" Health Scheme to all AP citizens. This kind of awe should be followed by us and govts so that the outside world will follow our schemes.
Then only we can challenge China or US or EU otherwise we will always be considered as Wild men by the Western World.

 

[rocking]

The more you dig, the more dirt.

decent family is with good wealth and knowledge so they know what dirt is and what is gold when they dig. mocking without actual value is not gonna help.

 

[ninjenstein]

You have 100 Rs in 2024.
Inflation is 7%
You are getting a return of 10% from your investment.
Now in 2025 your 100 are now 110 Rs with the return.

BUT, due to inflation now 107 Rs will get you similar stuff as 100 Rs from 2024.
So even though you got 110 Rs with 10% return, your actual POST inflation adjustment is just 3%.

Hope that helps.

Gotcha. This is great, thanks. Now all I need to do is make 10Cr.

 

[Kloud]