Looking for a home UPS that is smart


adder

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Couple of picture of my installation
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Below picture the the large cable duct with the slide cover open, it reveals all the DC MCCB, AC MCB, Changover switch. (battery shunt and DC-DC converters, terminal blocks connectors, etc are all hidden away inside the duct, so not seen in the picture) . Those two sockets are for connecting a vaccum cleaner or blower, one is powered by inverter output, other is powered directly by Ac mains.
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Below picture you can see all the connections are crimped properly, with boot lace ferrule and heat shrink no loose strands by using appropriate tools, every single crimping, connections including the battery connections where crimped by me using a even larger hydraulic crimping tool. All the design, cutting, drilling, mount panel/structure from A to z was done by me alone. No outside help was ever used. Very few if any of the professional installation in India crimp them. Mine is completely safe to touch with no stray wire copper strand.
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BMS

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In the below image, Batteries box that I made, top lid is open( most exhausting work was making the battery box , cutting wood using a saw is tiresome and you cannot use power tools every single time).
Cables used are high grade DC welding cable, including the battery inter connecting cables. These cables have double the amp rating vs most of the shelf ready made cables. Also used are super heavy duty battery lugs( hence the need for me to buy a hydraulic crimping tool. Instead of using petroleum jelly/ liqui molly grease I used Wuerth battery spray, Terminals are blue because of this.
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Battery monitor which works on a Shunt( not seen in picture), screen showing during charge cycle
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Screen below showing the 100AH discharge cycle, notice the the battery capacity is super accurate, while the inverter show a battery capacity of 2 bars the moment you switch to battery back up ( just like my APC UPS)
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Below of what inverter screen looks, as you can see it only has 4 bar battery reading, ( picture taken at another point of time, so ignore the voltage and respective bar reading).
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Why I used welding cable, instead of commercial available ready made battery cable, look at the picture below data from poly cab pdf.
Check the below taken from a polycab datasheet, notice on the left amp rating/strands of regular cables in market vs right welding cable the amp rating is higher with more quantity of smaller strands.
Minimum sqmm wire to use is 35sq mm whether it is a 3kw system or 5kw system. I used a 35sq.mm wire since the inverter terminals couldn't accept a 50sq mm wire.
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Welding cable is also super flexible and see the below video
 
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rdst_1

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Great work done mate. Since moving to the farm, even I have started doing lots of DIY and started collecting lots of tools. Please give link to the hydraulic crimper you have bought. I have the manual crimper till 16sq mm wire but would need a better one for higher capacity wires. Welding cable was definitely an excellent choice. I bought good grade 25sq mm welding cable for my welding machine while local welders over here just buy simple cable and make do with that. Also were you able to find crimp terminals in copper for bigger sizes. I could only get my hands on aluminium ones in bigger sizes.
 

adder

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Great work done mate. Since moving to the farm, even I have started doing lots of DIY and started collecting lots of tools. Please give link to the hydraulic crimper you have bought. I have the manual crimper till 16sq mm wire but would need a better one for higher capacity wires. Welding cable was definitely an excellent choice. I bought good grade 25sq mm welding cable for my welding machine while local welders over here just buy simple cable and make do with that. Also were you able to find crimp terminals in copper for bigger sizes. I could only get my hands on aluminum ones in bigger sizes.
Thanks, Yes DIY is fun, curtains times I wished some one could help me in holding the wire, so that I can crimp or went holding the plywood when I could cut, for wood I just use clamps. I have a Esab DC welding machine (zero welding skills, so I hire a professional welder to use my Esab for any of my welding requirement) and the cables it has is in another league in terms of quality. I asked Esab dealer for another spare cable, they said they can only get a barrel of 90meter wire and that no one else will buy them. So had to look for alternatives.

The exact link is no longer working but search this YQK-70, I paid around 4k. The one I got has wrong sizes printed on them 35sq mm was actually 50sqmm, so I had to use the 25sq mm bit to crimp 35sqmm lugs.
I first bought a 16-300mm crimping tool because it was cheaper, but that was too heavy and quite long for single person use, so I then bought the 4mm to 70mm crimping tool which is a lot smaller and lighter.

You have to ask for copper lugs, In the market you get tinned copper, other wise bare copper will corrode away. I have seen bare copper ones available in bangalore at 70sq mm sizes and above and they cost quite a lot.
Tinned copper is a must for flooded batteries or places that has moisture.
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The staircase isn't within the living area. It's in separate room that leads to the top floor. The area under the stair case is about 1200 litres. It has a door.


I wanted to put the Flin in there with the batteries with some sort of venting system that i've yet to figure out.


I thought i might just put the Flin outside the broom closet in the staircase room but if the fan gets loud then there is only a wall separating it from a bed room & a living room. So the Flin will have to go inside the broom closet under the stairs.
Then you can just close the door of the stair case room. But is there a door to the stair case room on the top floor. Mine has a door too but that door always seems to scratch the tiles, guess will have to sand the door bottom a bit. So after closing this door its not audible. Even without the door closed its only audible after midnight because the ambient noise is still high after midnight the loudest indoor sound typically is the clock seconds sound, in summer there is no way one will be able to hear it, with the ceiling fan /Air con running indoors and outdoor ambient noise increased due to Ac outdoor units running all around in the neighborhood .

I think a ventilation system is a must, yesterday it was hotter compared to previous days, so the temperature was 30c measured from the hot air coming under the fan. In summer that is a lot of heat with the ground floor indoor ambient temperature itself going upto 32C, so with the hot air of the inverter expect the temperature to go upto 40c to 45c in summer.

In bypass mode the fan seems to be running even with zero load always, only late at night does it stop for a few minutes. But in battery back up mode the fans run for 40% of the time in an hour, like 12min On and 16 to 20min Off, varies based on temperature. When its charging the batteries or under high load in battery mode, both fans run but they sound quieter and spin slower. So in Solar mode or battery mode it will run quieter with both fans running.
In Bypass AC only mode left fan runs pretty much the moment you turn on the inverter. The fans inside are 6watt max each 12v, 0.4A, 55db, 56CFM, 4.565 (mmH2O) static pressure. I found their website data here
Let us know how it goes Let us know how it goes
So they replied saying there is no firmware update as of yet, which is BS. But sadly Voltronics doesn't provide the firmware for end users only to major resellers/rebadgers.
Flin said you can try removing the dust filter but they don't recommend it considering the dust in india. After the warranty period is over I got some solutions which I will try*
Any recommendations for a BMS ?
Sukam is closed and out of stock, plus it has its own issues like getting it to display the correct voltage, even after user calibrations which is nearly impossible because the digits keep on varying.(my guess is because even during the calibration process it is doing the equalizing in the background which affects the reading).

The best cheaply priced ones currently used by majority of the solar installations outside india is HA02, but decided to give our desi Sukam brand a try first.
https://www.banggood.in/Battery-Equ...ors-p-1427509.html?ID=562660&cur_warehouse=CN its cheaper on aliexpress but it will take a month more to arrive.
Yesterday I discharged the batteries by 100ah or about 34% and then charged it back, during discharge all the batteries where within 0.01v of each other. But when charging they where upto 0.1v of each other.

There is no fixed pattern I see, some times battery bank negative which is battery B1,B4 ( B1 battery negative end and b4 battery positive end is connected to inverter) have almost same voltage, while the battery B2 and B3 have similar voltages both. Yesterday after charging the batteries back B4,B3 had lower voltage still within 0.1v between them and B1,B2 had higher voltage with 0.2v more compared to B1,B2.

Today the battery voltages are again different with B1,B4 higher compared to B2,B3 all within 0.1v of each other. So the BMS is definitely doing something right to balance them out. FYI the B2 battery was the one which had the spillage during transportation.


* both software and hardware measures.
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@blr_p @rdst_1
I think I am wrong with info about load sharing, after carefully comparing the manuals of regular low voltage MPPT inverter and flin fusion high voltage, in SOL mode or SBU mode the Bypass sign is missing, which means that the load is shared between utility and solar, further more Flin has answered a question in amazon when some asked if the load is higher then solar power production and they have said that it shares the load with AC. So yes if you have 3000watt load (without batteries connected) and solar is producing only 2000w, then it will consume only 1kw from AC.

Edit: Finally here is another video from our western neighbor, its the same inverter but clone of Voltronics, either licensed or even unlicensed copy only availale in that country. You can clearly see the display not going to Bypass in SBU or SOL mode. Since I am not that good with Hindi let alone urdu, can anyone of you tell if he saying the same as what I think he is, with the clamp meter reducing the draw from AC?
 
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rdst_1

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If you are talking about this question on Amazon then I am the one who asked this.

As for the youtube video, here is what i can tell you from it.
1) In UTI mode, the load is being powered by the utility and the batteries are being charged by the PV array. In the middle, the UTi also starts charging th battery while the PV array was producing around 2300-2400W from a 4200W PV array.
2) In SOL mode, although all the load is being powered by the PV array and the array is producing enough power, there is still a little draw of 1.5A from the utilities which he thinks shouldn't happen.
3) In SBU mode, the load is being powered by the PV array. If that isn't enough, it will use batteries and once batteries have discharged to a certain level, utilities will kick in.

He wasn't satisfied with the 1.5A draw in the SOL mode, so his solution to the issues is to run the inverter in UTI mode while manually switching off the utilities via the MCB. But I don't get why he is doing that. Instead he should be running it in SBU mode as that will also achieve the same thing while no need of manual intervention to switch the utilities on and off

Edit -
This manual also explains how the different modes work, if you scroll down a little.
It says :
To summarise:

uti mode is for off-grid use because it will make use of the generator whenever it is running.

SoL mode is for on-grid use as a solar UPS. It will not use the battery at all, keeping it fully charged, until you lose both solar and grid at the same time. It will reduce but not minimise grid usage. It will maximise the life of a lead-acid battery. Not so good for lithium.

Sbu mode is for on-grid use where you want to minimise grid usage. It will use the battery whenever solar is not available. It will only use the grid when the battery gets low.
 
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adder

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Lol, I had a hunch it must have been you, who asked the question in amazon.

In the lcd display, the load is shown on the right. While of the left is the Input power from solar and at 7:58 to 8min mark in the video you can see he changes to SOL, display still shows its in Bypass, then you can see the clamp meter showing lesser and lesser amp draw from mains, but solar power keeps varying, so it taking the rest from the grid. Is load is also varying as is his solar power, at one point is load is greater then solar power. He also using close to 80% capacity, if the internal temperature rises it will derate the power output to cool itself.

His batteries may show its fully charged but to keep them in float it needs power. A exide 150ah battery needs around 25 to 30w of power to keep them in float. ,The load side will not display that , but a battery monitor like mine shows that. Even with zero load connected the inverter itself needs 50watts to run itself, again the inverter display doesnt show that. But a clamp meter will. So combined my inverter draws 80watts with zero load(50w itself+30w to keep float state of battery).

So now if his load is showing 2.1 to 2.3 kw and if solar production show on left is 2.1kw , it still needs 80watts more just to run itself and keep the battery in float. HIs load is not constant and neither is the solar productions which is normal, he needs a pure resistive only load to to keep load constant.
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So low voltage mppt model can only charge batteries using solar and cannot mix(except the ultimate model) .
The high voltage Mppt model mixes the AC, so it has to match the voltage and frequency of the grid and then mix them.
low vs high mppt.jpg
 
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blr_p

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The dilemma with his model is that he has a low voltage MppT axpert inverter but grid tie inverters mostly use high voltage mppt input upto 400 to 500v for 1.5kw to 5kw systems.
So he cannot connect the inverters solar input in parallel to grid tie and off grid model.
Secondly flin fusion model takes battery and solar power to power heavy load, if the battery voltage drops really low due to low charge level, then it would fall back to the grid, until the battery is charge back again by solar upto to the predetermined battery voltage set by the user and it would then switch back to solar.
Since I have not connected or have bought any panels, that's my educated guess.

Another issue he has his that when its cloudy because of its low voltage mppt controller (which just bucks the input to the battery voltage) he will have not enough power from solar, where as in the high voltage mppt controller it converts the 400v dc bus input, it does both buck and boost and then inverts it to AC. Only the high voltage Mppt model like flin fusion works with no battery. Also the reason it cannot mix power from solar and grid simultaneously, only, the flin ultimate model can do it in off grid inverters, apart from the hybrid ones.
Low voltage mppt models need battery compulsory. So the fusion model can handle some heavy load under solar power a good bit better under cloudy conditions.
But you do intend to get solar panels at some point isn't it ?

What i understood from that video is if the solar generated power is less than the house consumption power then it switches to mains only or if that is not available then to the battery.

His model has a low voltge mppt so he is limited with his solar power generation. The Flin fusion can handle up to 4kW of panels so that limitation does not apply here.

But it still does apply.

Say it is cloudy even then if output of your 4kW worth of panels is less than the required draw it will go to waste.

Let's say you have your battery powered scooter and want to charge it.

How will you ensure that it is being charged by the panels.

If its a clear day and this happens for like 3 months of the year, Dec to around March then fine.

If it is a partly cloudy day ie rest of the year in Bangalore then at some point the battery gets charged entirely from the mains and at times solar.

I was under the impression that the Flin was mixing and whatever balance that solar could not generate would come from the mains power. But that is not the case here.

The workaround is to ensure load never exceeds solar generation power.

Meaning you have to over size the panels generation power to load by a factor of 2 to 4 to be on the safe side.
 
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adder

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But you do intend to get solar panels at some point isn't it ?

What i understood from that video is if the solar generated power is less than the house consumption power then it switches to mains only or if that is not available then to the battery.

His model has a low voltge mppt so he is limited with his solar power generation. The Flin fusion can handle up to 4kW of panels so that limitation does not apply here.
Flin fusion now accepts 5kw panels. Not sure they have uprated the specs or if there is a new pcb inside, even other genuine 5kva voltronics licensed have recently uprated it to 5kw of panels, this applies only to 5kva 48v battery model not the 24v 3kva.
Which video that one from pakis, he has the high voltage mppt.

But it still does apply.

Say it is cloudy even then if output of your 4kW worth of panels is less than the required draw it will go to waste

Let's say you have your battery powered scooter and want to charge it.

How will you ensure that it is being charged by the panels.

If its a clear day and this happens for like 3 months of the year, Dec to around March then fine.

If it is a partly cloudy day ie rest of the year in Bangalore then at some point the battery gets charged entirely from the mains and at times solar.
So in order to this, you set it to SOL or SBU mode and in charge setting use option called Solar only instead of grid+solar.
Now what will happens is, suppose the solar power is not sufficient with zero batteries connected, it will take the remaining power from grid. If batteries are connected it will take power from batteries+solar, if batteries are depleted it will take remaining power from grid.
For charger settings you have
"CUE" meaning priorities Ac mains to charge battery, in absence of it will use solar.
"CSO" is vice versa priorities solar to charge battery, in absence of it will use AC mains.
" SNU" both will charge at the same time.
"OSO" only solar will charge, it will wait till solar power is available again, even if batteries are depleted 100% or what ever low battery voltage setting you have set.

I was under the impression that the Flin was mixing and whatever balance that solar could not generate would come from the mains power. But that is not the case here.

The workaround is to ensure load never exceeds solar generation power.

Meaning you have to over size the panels generation power to load by a factor of 2 to 4 to be on the safe side.
That's exactly what it does, it mixes the balance, if you have batteries you can easily have load exceeding solar. If you don't it will take the balance from the main power.
But generally the max over factor they do is 35% more. Anything more doesn't make economic sense unless you have no grid supply at all.

Here is another video from the same paki guy.
 
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blr_p

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Which video that one from pakis, he has the high voltage mppt.
Green pro consulting here

It's a low mppt model

So in order to this, you set it to SOL or SBU mode and in charge setting use option called Solar only instead of grid+solar.
Now what will happens is, suppose the solar power is not sufficient with zero batteries connected, it will take the remaining power from grid. If batteries are connected it will take power from batteries+solar, if batteries are depleted it will take remaining power from grid.
For charger settings you have
"CUE" meaning priorities Ac mains to charge battery, in absence of it will use solar.
"CSO" is vice versa priorities solar to charge battery, in absence of it will use AC mains.
" SNU" both will charge at the same time.
"OSO" only solar will charge, it will wait till solar power is available again, even if batteries are depleted 100% or what ever low battery voltage setting you have set.
Very good

That's exactly what it does, it mixes the balance, if you have batteries you can easily have load exceeding solar. If you don't it will take the balance from the main power.
But generally the max over factor they do is 35% more. Anything more doesn't make economic sense unless you have no grid supply at all.
How do you know it will take the balance from the battery ?

What i understood from that green pro video is these inverters switch and do not balance.

So if load exceeds solar then it will switch to an alternate source ? either mains or battery in entirety

If battery is configured as first choice then it will take everything from the battery. So switching to battery (as opposed to balancing) thereby neglecting solar.

If battery dies or not present then switch entirely to mains.

The green pro consulting guy did not consider the battery in his example for some reason. Said it complicated things. But if there is an option to draw from the battery then you are making use of stored energy instead of the mains.
 
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adder

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How do you know it will take the balance from the battery ?

What i understood from that green pro video is these inverters switch and do not balance.

So if load exceeds solar then it will switch to an alternate source ? either mains or battery in entirety

If battery is configured as first choice then it will take everything from the battery. So switching to battery (as opposed to balancing) thereby neglecting solar.

If battery dies or not present then switch entirely to mains.

The green pro consulting guy did not consider the battery in his example for some reason. Said it complicated things. But if there is an option to draw from the battery then you are making use of stored energy instead of the mains.
In his defense Green pro guy is correct because when he made the video all axperts would switch to grid (bypass)completely, if the load is higher then what solar and battery could give, due to clouds or low battery etc.

The fusion model is the first and only model that can run without batteries, that by itself means its works differently. grid tie hybrid model(flin smart hybrid lite)and low mppt off grid models need battery compulsory. these models will not work wihput battery, even the ultimate model needs battery.

There a is a guy in US, who switched on a air compressor with a similar 5kva fusion type model without connecting batteries and it worked, so he got another one as well, to charge his EV.

When I did the load test the 100ah discharge test the other day, at 38% capacity left, I switched on a old .5hp pump motor which has very high inrush current it ran for 15min continously uses 920+ watt normaly and the inverter didn't even flinch and while it was running, the new booster pump which is also .5hp kicked in for 12 sec (because some one opened the tap )and that consumes around 530w to 560w and it has a inrush of around 18amps, so it was running both at the same time, I off course was running the load test for 26hrs with normal day to day load, so had to switch of the input mains. Output was around 225 to 227v under those load which included fans, lights, router,cameras, inverter fridge. Once I put solar the other non inverter panasonic fridge will also run on it.

The low voltage mppt needs lots of amps=more heat=derate, so those inverters switch to grid a lot, when a heavy inrush load comes on(with low battery). Most western folks use sealed batteries, which lets face it after the initial cycles there capacity and internal resistance is a question. If your battery has a high IR, then it may switch to grid. Lithium batteries have super low IR, so rarely do inverters switch to grid. Because Lifepo4 can give 1c to 5c, while lead is rated at 0.1c . Even if you have 40ah lithium pack it can handle heavy inrush loads better.

Most folks with the low voltage mppt models use a timer switch to switch of the input mains of the inverter, to force it to stay in battery or solar. Many of those low mppt models also have a Nc,NO relay trigger termiansl to power on a external relay to also switch off or On the input depending on the battery voltage.
 
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blr_p

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The fusion model is the first and only model that can run without batteries, that by itself means its works differently. grid tie hybrid model(flin smart hybrid lite)and low mppt off grid models need battery compulsory. these models will not work wihput battery, even the ultimate model needs battery.

There a is a guy in US, who switched on a air compressor with a similar 5kva fusion type model without connecting batteries and it worked, so he got another one as well, to charge his EV.
Fusion does not need batteries to run but why does this mean it is balancing ? If solar isn't enough then it switched to mains completely then isn't it.

When I did the load test the 100ah discharge test the other day, at 38% capacity left, I switched on a old .5hp pump motor which has very high inrush current it ran for 15min continously uses 920+ watt normaly and the inverter didn't even flinch and while it was running, the new booster pump which is also .5hp kicked in for 12 sec (because some one opened the tap )and that consumes around 530w to 560w and it has a inrush of around 18amps, so it was running both at the same time, I off course was running the load test for 26hrs with normal day to day load, so had to switch of the input mains. Output was around 225 to 227v under those load which included fans, lights, router,cameras, inverter fridge. Once I put solar the other non inverter panasonic fridge will also run on it.
I'm not sure where in there it means that fusion is balancing. Presumably your battery bank is adequate not to have to switch over to mains.

Now if your battery was nearing empty i expect at some point it would switch over to the mains.

The low voltage mppt needs lots of amps=more heat=derate, so those inverters switch to grid a lot, when a heavy inrush load comes on(with low battery). Most western folks use sealed batteries, which lets face it after the initial cycles there capacity and internal resistance is a question. If your battery has a high IR, then it may switch to grid. Lithium batteries have super low IR, so rarely do inverters switch to grid. Because Lifepo4 can give 1c to 5c, while lead is rated at 0.1c . Even if you have 40ah lithium pack it can handle heavy inrush loads better.

Most folks with the low voltage mppt models use a timer switch to switch of the input mains of the inverter, to force it to stay in battery or solar. Many of those low mppt models also have a Nc,NO relay trigger termiansl to power on a external relay to also switch off or On the input depending on the battery voltage.
It will be interesting to see how it handles that pump of mine that had an inrush of nearly 40A.
 

adder

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Fusion does not need batteries to run but why does this mean it is balancing ? If solar isn't enough then it switched to mains completely then isn't it.


I'm not sure where in there it means that fusion is balancing. Presumably your battery bank is adequate not to have to switch over to mains.

Now if your battery was nearing empty i expect at some point it would switch over to the mains.


It will be interesting to see how it handles that pump of mine that had an inrush of nearly 40A.
IF solar isn't enough it would switch to mains, under certain conditions if battery is depleted i.e 10.5v per battery or if you manually entered the low voltage cut of point to return back to grid. So let say you set it at 11.5v per battery when it drops below this voltage it switches to grid. The moot point here is the fact that it started to use battery, means solar was insufficient and if even with solar and battery powering your load, the battery is continuing to get depleted which means the solar is now really low and it which point it will switch to mains completely if battery below 11.5v or 10.5v default setting.

My point of the battery test was to show that even at such low SOC at 38% the flooded c10 150AH batteries where able to power them, My old .5hp motor also has a super high inrush (update measured 46amps). The same cannot be said to aged sealed batteries. If my battery was empty in my case it would have switched off, since I have no solar, inverter input mains was switched off during the test.

The goal of the test was see how the inverter fans behave, check battery voltages under discharge, check what kind of real world back up i can expect, I even simulated summer load by running a 600w hair dryer for 2hrs= to all my bldc ceiling fans at speed 4 to 5 running for 12hrs, So after 26hrs it was at 34% more then enough for my daily charge discharge cycles.
 
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blr_p

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IF solar isn't enough it would switch to mains, under certain conditions if battery is depleted i.e 10.5v per battery or if you manually entered the low voltage cut of point to return back to grid. So let say you set it at 11.5v per battery when it drops below this voltage it switches to grid. The moot point here is the fact that it started to use battery, means solar was insufficient and if even with solar and battery powering your load, the battery is continuing to get depleted which means the solar is now really low and it which point it will switch to mains completely if battery below 11.5v or 10.5v default setting.
The way to test if it is balancing is is to check if any power is being drawn by solar when batteries or mains is used

Think you said you had a small solar panel. Now if for a fixed load if it is drawing from both solar & battery/mains then there is some balancing occurring.

If you find nothing coming from solar and all from batteries or mains then it has switched

My point of the battery test was to show that even at such low SOC at 38% the flooded c10 150AH batteries where able to power them, My old .5hp motor also has a super high inrush (? cannot recall will update this here). The same cannot be said to aged sealed batteries. If my battery was empty in my case it would have switched off, since I have no solar, inverter input mains was switched off during the test.

The goal of the test was see how the inverter fans behave, check battery voltages under discharge, check what kind of real world back up i can expect, I even simulated summer load by running a 600w hair dryer for 2hrs= to all my bldc ceiling fans at speed 4 to 5 running for 12hrs, So after 26hrs it was at 34% more then enough for my daily charge discharge cycles.
Batteries are good

It would seem that sealed batteries cannot be relied on for anything below 50% SOC ? ok when brand new but at some point they fail to produce enough current below a certain SC

Question i wanted to ask is what is the minimum load required for the inverter to switch on. Could it run just a router drawing a few watts say or does the load have to be a certain amount before the flin will switch on the inverter.
 

adder

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The way to test if it is balancing is is to check if any power is being drawn by solar when batteries or mains is used

Think you said you had a small solar panel. Now if for a fixed load if it is drawing from both solar & battery/mains then there is some balancing occurring.

If you find nothing coming from solar and all from batteries or mains then it has switched
Since I dont have any panels, I cant test this. The inverter doesn't even show the cpu version of the charger, in software or the lcd. So the right side solar part is isolated and inverter should work even without the solar charger pcb board.

I would need a minimum of 1.9kw of panels, to power it On. To get the nominal voltage of 240v solar input, so that when brief clouds are there it wouldn't switch off( go below the 145v minimum mppt input).

Also the inverter will only give the full solar load, only if you have a load capable of drawing that power or if you batteries need charging. If you have 4kw of panels and your load is only 1kw, it will only draw 1080watt from the panels(including inverter self consumption and battery float charge) it will draw more if your batteries need to be charged.



Batteries are good

It would seem that sealed batteries cannot be relied on for anything below 50% SOC ? ok when brand new but at some point they fail to produce enough current below a certain SC

Question i wanted to ask is what is the minimum load required for the inverter to switch on. Could it run just a router drawing a few watts say or does the load have to be a certain amount before the flin will switch on the inverter.
So my mastech measured a inrush of 46amps for the old .5hp motor. Will be replacing it with something more efficient, it has a measured flow of 3000liters/hr, newer motors go as high as 6000 to 7000 liters/hr while still being .5hp motor.

So yesterday, I basically had the inverter output mcb Off, so basically zero watt load. It never shut off, was still giving output, with screen showing zero va,kw load. So it should work fine with router, be it in inverter mode or bypass mode.:)

This was done to test the fans, with filter removed, so the manual says the inverter will know if you have removed the filter and adjust the thermisters reading accordingly, to commensate for reduced air flow with filters. So a quick look inside the air vent area shows a small pcb, when you tighten the screw of filter , it completes the circuit of the small pcb which has a soldered female screw thread with 2 wires connected to the pcb.
But I feel it didn't make any difference to the fans, yesterday with the filter removed the fans switch off for 11 to 12mins and run for 23 to 28min, again zero load was connected, this was in bypass mode.

All voltronics inverters suck air from the top and blow to the bottom, which is opposite of natural air convection. People who have flipped the fans to suck air from bottom and blow upwards have reported a internal temp drop of around 10 to 15c. Doing this however effects the warranty, so I will do this after the warranty period is over. But you can take a guess if I would wait. :wink:
 
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vaalkai

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Guys, slightly off topic,sorry. but sice you all are here, i recently bought a zelio 1100i , have paired it with a new Exide el 150ah battery. The inverter keeps displaying 5 minutes to full charge and it appears to be charging and cutting off every 10 minutes or so based on the cooling fan activity and the noise it makes. Multimeter shows 14+ v across its terminals. Is this normal behaviour? Should it be topping up so often? What will the display look like if it's fully charged? Can any of you provide some pointers.
 

adder

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The time to fully charge in inverters is vague because the inverter doesn't know the state of charge of the battery, most entry level inverters only take into account the battery voltage, some also measure the internal resistance to change from Bulk charging to float charging.

EL series should have float voltage charge setting of 13.5v and voltage during bulk charging should be around 14.5v, with low cost inverters you are at the mercy of factory setting. Without knowing how the inverter charger is designed we can't know exactly what it is doing every 10min. You need to check the amps using a DC clamp meter to find out what it is doing.
 
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vaalkai

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Oh, thanks for the inputs. Overnight it has become stable. It stopped charging. Battery is at 13.5 v. So iguess it's ok for now.
 

blr_p

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i recently bought a zelio 1100i , have paired it with a new Exide el 150ah battery.
How's the bluetooth and app ? if you ask nicely it will reply :)

The 20 seconds power button press did not help me to connect to Bluetooth.

The only solution here is disconnecting the inverter from battery and reconnecting it.

Just after reconnecting to battery,the inverter's Bluetooth is discoverable through mobile app and you can see blue LED blinking.
It's a workaround but how exactly are you supposed to do this on a daily basis ?

You mean to tell me there is no way to get the BT to work without disconnecting the battery !!!
 

vaalkai

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How's the bluetooth and app ? if you ask nicely it will reply :)



It's a workaround but how exactly are you supposed to do this on a daily basis ?

You mean to tell me there is no way to get the BT to work without disconnecting the battery !!!
I couldnt get the app to see my zelio, i tried different phones, tried diff dns providers, i even tried reconnecting the battery, the damn thing didnt even blink. The 20 seconds press makes it blink for few seconds, but what the hell it is doing beyond blinking is anyone's guess. I started suspecting if it even has a wifi/bt chip inside. Me thinks it is a grand conspiracy by luminous to make us chase around a non exisitng feature. You gotta hand it to them though, charging extra for nothing...now, that is impressive. I knew it was bad before buying, but I thought if i can atleast make it run once, may be i can wireshark it, try to understand what its doing and try to do some own hacking. But didnt realize it was this bad.
 

blr_p

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I couldnt get the app to see my zelio, i tried different phones, tried diff dns providers, i even tried reconnecting the battery, the damn thing didnt even blink. The 20 seconds press makes it blink for few seconds, but what the hell it is doing beyond blinking is anyone's guess. I started suspecting if it even has a wifi/bt chip inside. Me thinks it is a grand conspiracy by luminous to make us chase around a non exisitng feature. You gotta hand it to them though, charging extra for nothing...now, that is impressive. I knew it was bad before buying, but I thought if i can atleast make it run once, may be i can wireshark it, try to understand what its doing and try to do some own hacking. But didnt realize it was this bad.
Sounds like a faulty bluetooth chip. QA comes to mind. New feature and they didn't do a very good job at it.

Not like they have any competition :(

From the phones worlds to the inverters world is like travelling back in time. Ten years at least.
 

vaalkai

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Sounds like a faulty bluetooth chip. QA comes to mind. New feature and they didn't do a very good job at it.

Not like they have any competition :(

From the phones worlds to the inverters world is like travelling back in time. Ten years at least.
:( such a sad state. Wish there was more competition in this area.