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Northstar
You have any links to the products ?
Looking for a home UPS that is smart
- Thread starter blr_p
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Battery importer in peenya 2019 price. Basically a 3.2v 100ah = 320whr battery costs 4750 inc gst.
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Northstar
And you would need 20 of them to get to 6 kWh
What is the name of the battery and does it come with any datasheets. How long is the warranty ?
When i look for LFP batteries i found one by a company called inverted.
Why say more than 2k cycles. Why not say 4k cycles like is std with other vendors.
So there is no much advantage over the Luminous in that case.
I know for a fact that Luminous will replace the battery if there are any issues within the 5 yr warranty they offer. Even if it takes over 3 months for the battery to arrive on a slow boat from China.
Check out this Amazon review of Luminous Regalia 900- Wall Mounted Smart Power Backup System (with Lithium ion Battery)
Product good..Luminous support not good
www.amazon.in
I had a datasheet they sent it via whats app so I cant open it anymore but it was 2000cycles after which it still has 70% capacity. Basically it doesn't drop further. Lead acid would be 50% or below for the same charge cycles and keeps dropping till zero.
It was a prismatic cell the datasheet conveniently had the company name missing. But from physical look I can say its not from the top 5 chinese cell companies.
The exact price quoted was 3750+18% gst per cell. Obviously that's a 2019 price . But for 20 cells they would definitely give a discount.
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I googled the model number found on the battery picture which the dealer shared and I got this.
m.alibaba.com
Original Gfb Ffh4d3 Rechargeable 3.2v 100ah Prismatic Lithium Ion Lifepo4 Battery Cell 12v 24v 48v 72v Solar Application - Buy Lifepo4 Battery 3.2v 100ah lifepo4 100ah lifepo4 Battery 100ah prismatic Lifepo4 Battery Cell 3.2v prismatic Lithium Ion Ba
Original Gfb Ffh4d3 Rechargeable 3.2v 100ah Prismatic Lithium Ion Lifepo4 Battery Cell 12v 24v 48v 72v Solar Application - Buy Lifepo4 Battery 3.2v 100ah lifepo4 100ah lifepo4 Battery 100ah prismatic Lifepo4 Battery Cell 3.2v prismatic Lithium Ion Batteries gfb 100ah Cell solar Battery 12v...
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Northstar
You know any one offering longer than that ?
Here is a company offering a powerwall knockoff. Check how long their warranty is.
LFP should state 4000 cycles like the Shreeforce
Check out the price
It's not even clear to me whether that includes the inverter or just the batteries.
The Regalia does not look so bad in comparison.
rdst_1
Innovator
You missed my point. Why would anyone pay 3 times the money for same warranty? If any company is using good quality cells which demand such a premium then they should offer longer warranty. At this point, this is just a cash-grab because there are no real alternatives and competition in the market. If you want to pay for the novelty then be my guest, but I'd rather have 3 times higher capacity of Solar C10 batteries which would have same warranty.
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Northstar
48v 100Ah is the equivalent of 2 x 200Ah at 12V. Still this thing is the size of a filing cabinet
I estimate cycles to be between 1500-2000. Compared to lead acid that's 4 times longer isn't it.
That amazon review said the battery was dead within 3 years. I suspect he had it on UPS which means it comes on any times voltage fluctuates. I would have it on the other setting so the lights would blink when it comes on. Not the fast UPS switchover. I think this will increase the battery life much more. In the end battery life depends on depth of discharge whether lead acid or lithium so i oversize on purpose. The amazon review was for the 20AH model so that would have worked it some.
LFP would be longer still but then so is the asking price.
LG offers these units in Australia and they avg around AUD$6k for similar capacity. Or double the regalia price for 10 years warranty.
I don't see prices coming down from 1st gen to 2nd gen. 50% dearer to double the capacity
20AH - 50AH was 59k to 90k
50Ah - 100Ah is 90k to 1.5L if you choose the 3000VA model
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rdst_1
Innovator
I just bought 48V - 150Ah of lead-acid Solar batteries which are meant to be deep discharged every day. They are providing a warranty of 5 years which means that I can use them for 1500 cycles. Total cost to me was just 52800.
Estimation of cycles, real world cycles and warrantied cycles are going to be different. I am only judging them by the warrantied cycles, because that's what my money gets me. Everything else is just bonus if it survives longer.
AFAIK, higher tariffs are applicable now on both batteries and solar panels imported to India.
Vision Mech discussed here earlier sell batteries with much higher warranty but their price was way too high when I checked.
Hykon is another company selling LP batteries with the same 5 year warranty.
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Northstar
So that's 4 x 150Ah solar batteries of which brand ? this then has an inverter that can handle 48V You are now at Rs.80k
To get those cycles requires maintenance. Readings for specific gravity every 3 months logged for the life of the batteries.
6 cells a battery or 24 readings every three months. You up for all that work ?
Any new developments that you have seen in the battery space since the previous 2020 discussion?
rdst_1
Innovator
No they don't need that maintenance because they are in warranty for 5 years. It will help if I treat them well and carry out necessary fluid top-ups whenever needed. But no one needs to check specific gravity every 3 months. These batteries don't go bad that quickly. Do you think any normal person will be doing all that. I don't think so. And still the company is confident enough about their product that they offer a 5 year warranty. Hell, they now even have a 75 months (60+15) warranty battery. And this is the same company, Luminous, that we are talking about. And that's why I am not just surprised but disappointed that they aren't willing to offer a higher warranty on a battery that doesn't require all that maintenance and is supposed to have a higher life, while they offer same warranty for products which do (according to you).
See, the sole point I have been trying to make in all the above posts, which you seem to miss, is that there is one product which costs 50k and another which costs 1.5L and in both cases, after 5 years, you are on your own. I never wanted to buy lead-acid batteries myself, but financially they make the most sense at current prices we are being charged for lithium batteries. I welcome the new EV products that are coming on road every day, because in a few years, we will be able to source good quality battery packs from such discarded vehicles which would still be good enough for home usage.
Nope. But we have few more traders importing cells and making packs.
Lithium.
All these companies are mostly not going to provide warranty of no more then 2 years. Since they don't source batteries from reputed companies. These big companies don't bother with these small traders whose order total is less then 10lakh. They also keep changing to cheaper suppliers. Or the chinese middle men themself shift to a new supplier. So I will be surprised if they even honor the 2 year warranty.
Tata is able to give 8 years warranty because they buy from the top 5 battery manufacturers with a order amounting millions of dollars.
But since I have used cells for RC cars and flashlights etc since 2010. No matter how bad the LFP cells are they easily outlast the best of lead acid batteries.
But lead batteries do have a few advantages, say you buy a 150ah c10 lead acid battery whose life is rated at 1200 cycles at 80% depth of discharge or about 2000+ cycles with 50% depth of discharge.
Now lets say you have a load of c3 for few minutes like my dishwasher which consumes 1.6kw at max but over the 3 hrs it consumes a total 1kwh. So when it runs on my 48v inverter during the heating wash and final rinse cycle it pulls anywhere from (48v battery pack) 1amp during just the pump spraying to about 52amp when it doing the heating rinse cycle. But overall it would have pulled around 30ahr from the battery. After the dishwasher is finished the only other loads in the house are 2 amps to 6amps depending on which devices are On includes tvs, fridges, router, cameras, computers etc.
So in these low amp draw scenario of 2 to 6amps which is 80% of the time. The c10 150ah batteries will infact be equal to 200ah batteries at a load of 2 to 6amps where as a lithium battery will not.
I saw a solar installation where they use both lead and lithium. When the heavy machinery is running they use lithium and solar and when machinery is off they use the raw power of panels to charge the lithium batteries at 1c and when there is limited solar available they use that to charge the lead acid batteries which can only be charged at c10 to c20 and at night for running stuff like fridge or freezer or computers, cctv cameras they run them on lead acid.
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Northstar
I'm not comparing LA with Li. I'm comparing Li with other offerings. Like for like. What are the options available right now if you want to go with Li.
LA is old technology and well understood. It's going to have a price advantage because its made locally.
For Li to be price competitive is going to take a long time and until they are made here which is not happening soon the price will remain high.
I want to get away from LA because i don't want to do the maintenance and deal with venting issues. I also have space considerations which most do not have.
That translates into convenience and i'm ready to pay the premium since there isn't any thing else that can compete with the regalias for now.
Self contained box that just sits there and can be forgotten for the next 5 or so years.
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Northstar
The Cruze inverter has got an update to make it smart. The new variant goes under the name iCruze. It has a coms port at the back that takes a dongle with antenna that you screw in. It can also take a SIM card. The hitch is they are not included ootb and Luminous has no supply of these dongles at this present time (!)
Wonder how many panels are needed to get 22kWh daily !!
Am looking for a power meter that can meter how much power the UPS puts out over its life. Any suggestions ? There is no way to measure cycles but a cumulative count of kwH's delivered should be possible.
'Normal people' is not a reference to use because they are for the most part clueless
They don't know about C10 had i not mentioned it in this thread.
They don't know about manufacture dates. Even on teamBHP forum no one brought up this critical point in their discussion threads either.
Normal people are looking to get the cheapest they can find and once past the three month window batteries will get cheaper because their life is now automatically shorter. Then this lot complains about every single vendors battery because it crapped out before warranty was up and the vendor refused them warranty.
Wonder how many panels are needed to get 22kWh daily !!
Am looking for a power meter that can meter how much power the UPS puts out over its life. Any suggestions ? There is no way to measure cycles but a cumulative count of kwH's delivered should be possible.
If you expect to get a warranty replacement then the company will ask for that info. If you buy 4 then its good to have that assurance. We don't live in a world of zero defect manufacturing. Refusing warranty is typical with these vendors.
'Normal people' is not a reference to use because they are for the most part clueless
They don't know about C10 had i not mentioned it in this thread.
They don't know about manufacture dates. Even on teamBHP forum no one brought up this critical point in their discussion threads either.
Normal people are looking to get the cheapest they can find and once past the three month window batteries will get cheaper because their life is now automatically shorter. Then this lot complains about every single vendors battery because it crapped out before warranty was up and the vendor refused them warranty.
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rdst_1
Innovator
I don't have it in me to argue anymore., but I've never seen any user check specific gravity himself. Even the company AMC guys didn't used to do it. They only come and do that if one raises a warranty request.
Good luck with your purchase. Keep us updated. Also, with the Regalia, are you planning to use it with a solar setup i.e. using your batteries almost daily or just for backup.
Good luck with your purchase. Keep us updated. Also, with the Regalia, are you planning to use it with a solar setup i.e. using your batteries almost daily or just for backup.
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Northstar
Do you know of successful warranty replacements without that info ? the people who told me this offer a service where some one comes and measures it every 3 months.
There is no option of solar with the second gen of Regalia's.
Solar is difficult to figure out without data and that data has to be local. I'm not sure whether it makes sense in Bangalore considering 6 to 9 months in the year are cloudy. Add to that i have two tall buildings in front and to the side. In Jun the sun is almost overhead at mid day but in Dec it only reaches 60 degrees above the horizon at my latitude. However the light meter shows a lot of lumens even on cloudy days so there may be some scope. Does not need direct sunlight.
How much power do i get ? enough to charge up the batteries. What do i do with the rest ? If load is more then solar is wasted.
It's only when load is less than is generated can you use it. THAT is the important bit.
How many hours in the day and how many days in the year will that be true ? i have no way to figure this out without getting a system.
So you have to oversize it to have some wiggle room. That will be a lot of panels.
Did you get a quote on that futurehitech powerhouse you linked in the previous page ? For ten years warranty i'm guessing the price for 4.8kWh is going to be in the 3L range.
Funny how the price doubles as the warranty. It would not be good if the regalia packs up a few months after the 5 yr warranty is over. That's the only risk i can see.