Looking for a home UPS that is smart

adder

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They do have some kind of DC over voltage cut off, we have seen many reports of bulged VRLA/Gel/Sealed batteries in this very forum, you can still slow cook the batteries until it reaches the threshold,
Battery manufactures atleast some brands like exide brochures do tell us the amount of voltage to be compensated for every degree rise or fall of temperature. High end server room UPS have climate controlled battery enclosures.
I don't see any consumer grade inverters with a temperature sensor for battery.

My APC smart UPS has a internal temperature sensor for battery voltage compensation (at least that's what its advertised as) , but mine is a externally connected batteries, so it is useless.

Lead acid days are numbered they milked this tech long enough, hopefully by the time we guys replace the batteries next time around, lithium would be cheaper if its made in India or taxed less, currently they are taxed at 40.8% compared to 28% for lead acid battery and there is zero lithium battery manufactures in India. Even Exide and Amaron have said that by 2020 they will start selling lithium battery but with "Imported cells" .
 

blr_p

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The parameters that would be helpful are the battery voltage, state of charge. Majority of the inverters out there show a really inaccurate state of charge(SOC), purely based on the battery voltage which changes depending on temperature and load.
I'm also a bit sceptical how they can get all that info based off battery voltage. It must be an approximation and assumes not much temperature shifts. What about over time as the battery ages.

Only way i was told you could get accurate info was with a hydrometer

And it has to go into every cell :/

Yesterday in bangalore the temperature dropped a lot, causing my batteries to have a high voltage reading(also showing full SOC). I had to use the windows terminal commands to lower the voltage, also used a hair dryer to warm the batteries, otherwise the voltage would have gone up dangerously, potentially causing the releases of gases after the drop in water. So the pros of keeping the battery near the window is the gases would escape, the cons is that the outside cold breeze will cause the battery voltage to rise.
Over charging causing hydrogen sulphide. Still, if its near a windows it will go out. Won't be good for the battery though.

When you think about it lithium looks so much more attractive now, alas they cost 4x more in india.
2x :)

unless you keep your load around 240W
 
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adder

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There are other negatives though like Chaos pointed out a while ago

Some sellers seem to think Sukam has gone bankrupt
I see, it does have a port for temperature sensor which is good. :)

APC on the other hand wants as much as 2x the cost as new smart ups, for just a smart slot and temperature and humidity sensor, no idea what they are smoking. I will have to open the old smart ups up and see if I can desolder the internal existing sensor and extend a wire with same sensor to the battery. Hope, the sensor is big and not a SMD component.

Sukam is far from going bankrupt, if anything they are growing, they just don't have much presence here in south. They have invested heavily in solar inverters tech.

I'm also a bit sceptical how they can get all that info based off battery voltage. It must be an approximation and assumes not much temperature shifts. What about over time as the battery ages.

Only way i was told you could get accurate info was with a hydrometer

And it has to go into every cell :/
Yes it is just a approximation, but its just not good enough. Even my new 5kva inverter manual says, it just rough calculation based on the battery voltage and load (if it is either less then 50% or not), which is too huge of average when taking into account the voltage sag due to the load, it also doesn't do temperature compensation.

I will be using a shunt based current sensor to estimate the battery more accurately, it will show the battery capacity in milliamp consumed and percentage both during charging and discharging, just like a mobile phone battery.

Hyrdometer will also tell us the charge and age of the battery. But it isn't practical to see the level of charge each time. Those hydrometer sensors and the electronics cost more then a new lithium battery pack.

Also bought a sukam battery equalizer since I will be using 4 batteries.

2x :)

unless you keep your load around 240W
Why 240w?

BTW, found another c10 battery sakthi battery in bangalore, heavier in weight then exide. but only offer 3 years warranty, price for PVLM Tall tubular series 14.3k for 150ah and 18.4k for 200ah all C10, prices are banglore F.O.R directly from manufacturer.http://www.sakthipower.com/table_p1.htm
 
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blr_p

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Why 240w?
For a 200Ah battery
A C20 does 10A in 20h so 10A x 12V is 120W
A C10 does 20A in 10h so 20A x 12V si 240W

No derating if you can keep your load close to those limits

Ignoring inverter conversion efficiency here which will likely reduce those watts by 20% minimum

With two batteries the power doubles if connected in series. But now see the difference between C10 & C20.

I still think 240W is too damn low with C20 and that is what 99% of people are using.

BTW, found another c10 battery sakthi battery in bangalore, heavier in weight then exide. but only offer 3 years warranty, price for PVLM Tall tubular series 14.3k for 150ah and 18.4k for 200ah all C10, prices are banglore F.O.R directly from manufacturer.http://www.sakthipower.com/table_p1.htm
They even include a derating table which is another good sign.

sakthi derating.JPG


Is 200Ah available in tubular ?
No 200AH for PVLM, 150Ah is the highest it goes

The horizontal is available in 210Ah

What is the difference between P.P vertical & Vertical H.R models ? PRLM vs HJLM ?

Comparing the dry weight for 150AH PVLM
Sakti 51kg
EL+ 47.6kg
EL 160Ah is 45kg
Excel IT 40.8kg
Luminous is 37kg

Hopefully the catalog isn't out of date

What trolley will you use for two of these ? has to be on wheels. Weight will be 130kg total for 2 x 150AH tubular if not more[DOUBLEPOST=1543171001][/DOUBLEPOST]To get an idea of derating with C20, here is table from Stan tubular. 5h discharge means your battery is 66% only

stan tubular.JPG
 
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adder

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For a 200Ah battery
A C20 does 10A in 20h so 10A x 12V is 120W
A C10 does 20A in 10h so 20A x 12V si 240W

No derating if you can keep your load close to those limits

Ignoring inverter conversion efficiency here which will likely reduce those watts by 20% minimum
Yes always better to calculate it to just 80% SOC of battery. or upto 20% discharged state.

With two batteries the power doubles if connected in series. But now see the difference between C10 & C20.

I still think 240W is too damn low with C20 and that is what 99% of people are using.
Single battery systems are best suited for 500w load or less. 2 battery inverters are better in the long run with higher efficiency.
In the future when lithium is available easily I wouldn't be suprised by a 200v plus DC system, with 99% efficiency.
In my 48v battery inverter its better 93% efficiency.

They even include a derating table which is another good sign.
Is 200Ah available in tubular ?
No 200AH for PVLM, 150Ah is the highest it goes

The horizontal is available in 210Ah

What is the difference between P.P vertical & Vertical H.R models ? PRLM vs HJLM ?

Comparing the dry weight for 150AH PVLM
Sakti 51kg
EL+ 47.6kg
EL 160Ah is 45kg
Excel IT 40.8kg
Luminous is 37kg

Hopefully the catalog isn't out of date

What trolley will you use for two of these ? has to be on wheels. Weight will be 130kh total for 2 x 150AH tubular[DOUBLEPOST=1543171001][/DOUBLEPOST]To get an idea of derating with C20, here is table from Stan tubular. 5h discharge means your battery is 66% only
Yes 200AH is available in tubular, I have their catalogue and its weight dry 58.22, wet 80.80kg, they also have 180ah 53.25kg dry and 76.10 kg wet.

Even exide 2010 era catalog had the rating from c1 to c20. The exide powersafe sealed battery cataloges have them even today.
Pretty much all lead acid batteries drop by similar derating. It's just that some choose the battery discharge cut off voltage at 1.70v and likes of exide, sakti in their c10 batteries choose 1.80v per cell.

The sakti people didn't tell me the difference, but when I simply asked for their best batteries which have good cyclic use for solar they recomended the PVLM vertical series.

Plastic trolleys just can't handle them, for my 2 battery apc ups I used a wooden battery box. I intend to use a custom made wooden box for my 48v battery, a single plywood would be enough to make a box,
 

blr_p

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Yes always better to calculate it to just 80% SOC of battery. or upto 20% discharged state.
This is to do with runtime. I'm talking what is the maximum load you can use to remain in spec.

For a single C20 it is 120W or 100W (with inverter at 80%) for 20h
For a single C10 it is 240W or 200W (with inverter at 80%) for 10h

Figures like this you'd think a C10 would be twice as good if not more than a C20 but that's not how the numbers shake up.

If your load runs the battery down faster than 20h for a C20 or 10h for a C10 then you are operating out of spec. Ridiculous but true.

Single battery systems are best suited for 500w load or less. 2 battery inverters are better in the long run with higher efficiency.
Lets take a 200Ah C20

If the load is 500W, that means it is delivering 500 /12 or 42A

This means it can only work for 200 / 42 = 4.8h but this is assuming a perfect battery. By that i mean if you pull more than the spec amount of 10A then the battery capacity to deliver decreases

A C20 according to the Stan tubular table is only 66% if run down in 5h so you won't get 4.8h as calculated earlier but less

4.8h becomes 3.1h

Now if you want to limit to 80% DOD, take away another 20% so we're down to 2.5h

In addition consider inverters efficiency and its 20% down again to 2h

Result is a single C20 with a 500W load can be expected to deliver 2h run time

With a 200Ah C10

A C10 according to your sakthi table is 83% if run down in 5h

4.8h is 4h

Now if you want to do 80% DOD, take away another 20% so we're down to 3.2h

Now consider inverters efficiency and its 20% down again to 2.5h

So in the end a C10 delivers a half hour longer than a C20

With two batteries and the same 500W load. A C20 delivers 4h and a C10 closer to 5h.

So you can expect 20%+ longer run time with a C10.

Given the non-availability of decent C10's compared to branded C20s are C10's worth the hassle ?

If you want longer run time in the same volume yes, otherwise no. Longer run time can have a bearing on cycle count.

Reason i don't include the 80% DOD is it complicates cycle count numbers. Without that requirement how many cycles to expect

A C 20 at 500W is good for 2.5h and 5h with two batteries. If power out is 2h on average then only 50% DOD. The cycle count doubles as a result so 2000+ cycles. If its an average of 1h so 25% DOD, then cycles will cross 4000+

Pretty much all lead acid batteries drop by similar derating. It's just that some choose the battery discharge cut off voltage at 1.70v and likes of exide, sakti in their c10 batteries choose 1.80v per cell.
Assuming you get a battery within 3 months of manufacture date. Only the manufacturer and service guy know that date. The seller does too but won't disclose unless you check serial# with the manufacturer at the time of purchase. Older batteries will be discounted. A 6 or 9 month old battery that hasn't had a top up charge will sulphate and be less than the stated capacity so that means still more minus-ing from total run time.

Even exide 2010 era catalog had the rating from c1 to c20. The exide powersafe sealed battery cataloges have them even today.
This is the thing, the pertinent derating & dry weight info was available in catalogs from 2010 era but missing in current catalogs. Nobody can tell you what the dry weight of an exide C10 tubular solar What to make of it ?

When i looked up the info for exides gel battery it was a complete joke. 100% marketing, zero technical info. Fit it and forget it, sellers were saying. So tempting.

Today only the exide powersafes have this info, powersafe is used in a corporate setting with temperature control and not stuck out in the balcony. So a more controlled environment is assumed and the warranty demands it than in the home. I have no idea how they even honour warranty in a home setting. People usually go for lowest cost, so older battery, right sized as well so back up time low to meet budget. The quality of distilled water can vary widely. It may not even be distilled but through some other process. That will definitely affect battery longevity.

How do you ensure water quality ?

In the future when lithium is available easily I wouldn't be suprised by a 200v plus DC system, with 99% efficiency.
In my 48v battery inverter its better 93% efficiency.
A lithium battery removes a lot of headaches. The battery going by regalia is in reality a computer attached to a battery.

Also an APC smart ups like you have costs more than consumer ups. 30k? vs 6-7k for a zelio

Given the flexibility of setting charging voltage this is the reason you managed almost 9yr with your exide EL.

Yes 200AH is available in tubular, I have their catalogue and its weight dry 58.22, wet 80.80kg, they also have 180ah 53.25kg dry and 76.10 kg wet.

The sakti people didn't tell me the difference, but when I simply asked for their best batteries which have good cyclic use for solar they recomended the PVLM vertical series.
If you weigh the batteries on a weighing scale on delivery you will know how reality matches up with their catalog.

Plastic trolleys just can't handle them, for my 2 battery apc ups I used a wooden battery box. I intend to use a custom made wooden box for my 48v battery, a single plywood would be enough to make a box,
Any wheels underneath ? Makes things easier for maintenance
 

adder

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This is to do with runtime. I'm talking what is the maximum load you can use to remain in spec.
No, I know what you meant.

Lets take a 200Ah C20

If the load is 500W, that means it is delivering 500 /12 or 42A

This means it can only work for 200 / 42 = 4.8h but this is assuming a perfect battery. By that i mean if you pull more than the spec amount of 10A then the battery capacity to deliver decreases......

So you can expect 20%+ longer run time with a C10.

A C 20 at 500W is good for 2.5h and 5h with two batteries. If power out is 2h on average then only 50% DOD. The cycle count doubles as a result so 2000+ cycles. If its an average of 1h so 25% DOD, then cycles will cross 4000+
That's the thing, 90% of the time I don't consume more then 500w load (after making sure most of the electrical appliances are the highest efficiency devices at the time of purchase), yet I bought a 5000w inverter for that 10% of the time, so I am going for 150AH x 4 C10, so that's 720w continuous and the remaining 10% of the time I would probably consume like about 3500w when the water heater is switched On for a max of 1hr or microwave.

It will further be assisted in the morning by solar hopefully in a year I would probably able to run AC in summer day time, so minimal draw from batteries, not the case for night time.
One thing I noticed is that all the battery manufactures seem to give a higher warranty or say it will easily last alteast 5 years + when used for solar, even c20 ones.
The only difference between a inverter/ups use and solar is that, in the later the battery is charged and discharged daily.

A single inverter which can say give 1000w on a single 12v battery vs say a 24v inverter of similar capacity or 48v of similar capacity. The 12v inverter will weighs more, is of lower efficiency, develops lots of heat which is a killer for electronics. So for that alone I do not recommend single battery inverters and its best left for 500w load or less, that doesn't mean that you use the full 500w capacity of the UPS, which will toast the batteries quickly.

Assuming you get a battery within 3 months of manufacture date. Only the manufacturer and service guy know that date. The seller does too but won't disclose unless you check serial# with the manufacturer at the time of purchase. Older batteries will be discounted. A 6 or 9 month old battery that hasn't had a top up charge will sulphate and be less than the stated capacity so that means still more minus-ing from total run time.
Most dealers don't stock C10 batteries, so it fresh within a month manufacturing date. When I checked Exide C10 batteries at a dealer, the box did have stickers of the manufacturing date. Typically dealers throw away the box and get only the battery to the customer premises which is probably because they deliver single battery via scooter ( majority of the users buy single battery), so you can insist on the box.

This is the thing, the pertinent derating & dry weight info was available in catalogs from 2010 era but missing in current catalogs. Nobody can tell you what the dry weight of an exide C10 tubular solar What to make of it ?
That Excel battery that you said about a couple of months back, I was told that the dry weights are now lower and the one in their website is inaccurate. But they also told me that the weight reduction was achieved by reducing the interconnecting plates/conductor of each cell, a 12v battery has 6 cells inside. But what made me skeptical was Exide who is the oldest manufacturer in India should have done this a long time, the fact that Exide batteries are used in submarines and for defense application, I believe their ratings and specs are truer and are still better then all other batteries in India. Which is why I would still by their batteries.


When i looked up the info for exides gel battery it was a complete joke. 100% marketing, zero technical info. Fit it and forget it, sellers were saying. So tempting.

Today only the exide powersafes have this info, powersafe is used in a corporate setting with temperature control and not stuck out in the balcony. So a more controlled environment is assumed and the warranty demands it than in the home. I have no idea how they even honour warranty in a home setting. People usually go for lowest cost, so older battery, right sized as well so back up time low to meet budget. The quality of distilled water can vary widely. It may not even be distilled but through some other process. That will definitely affect battery longevity.

How do you ensure water quality ?
Exide own powersafe papers tell us that gel batteries can loose as much as 50% of their capacity, by just discharging to 100% just for a few cycles or for that matter APC white papers tells us that a sealed Gel battery can loose it capacity by a similar amount if the ambient temperature is 30 degree Celsius.

Water quality that you get in petrol bunks, is also pathetic. I check the distill water bottles for visible impurities and when I do find them, the reply by the petrol bunk or sellers is that those are additives added that are floating inside. So what I did do last time was, bought two bottles with the least or nil impurities, I then filter the water again and before I did that I first took a water reading of dissolved particles aka TDS and made sure it was close to zero.

Earlier Shell pumps used to sell distilled waters which was clean and I also bought the 4liter can version, they stopped selling them now.

But do NOT buy 4 liter can version now, which uses a non transparent plastic, by only the 1 liter ones which are in a transparent plastic bottle.

A lithium battery removes a lot of headaches. The battery going by regalia is in reality a computer attached to a battery.

Also an APC smart ups like you have costs more than consumer ups. 30k? vs 6-7k for a zelio

Given the flexibility of setting charging voltage this is the reason you managed almost 9yr with your exide EL.
Those additional charging circuitry, the BMS is nowadays really cheap. It's the dreaded import duties and lots of middle men that makes lithium batteries so much more expensive. If one needs to buy a 18650 type cells from a manufacturer you will need to order 1lakh cells minimum. If you go via middle men/ suppliers the market is filled with fake cells minmum order is around 1000 cells, so the trusted suppliers charge more because of the authenticity, which alone doubles the price, it further doubles up after Indian middle men or companies are involved not to mention the 40% duties and taxes.

That 1000va, 800w apc smart ups costed around 14k or something back then. I also didn't consume more then 100w continuously with 2x 40AH C10 batteries, that and periodic water and voltage monitoring, made it last that long. I had first hand witness the C5 draw of 20amps and knew back then that at 20amp draw on a 40ah C10 battery, didn't last 2hrs it dropped to 10.5v each much before that and that, the dealer and APC dealer couldn't understand why, but Schneider something manager for bangalore was what made me download and reading all those exide/apc whitepapers, which made me limit my amp draw to as close as possible to c10 or lower.

If you weigh the batteries on a weighing scale on delivery you will know how reality matches up with their catalog.


Any wheels underneath ? Makes things easier for maintenance
Few weeks back when I talked to a battery dealer via phone about the weight of EL 150( 4 year, c10 rated 150ah battery) not their in any catalog or website, the dealer said it was 70kg something, which was higher then the C10 solar battery but was cheaper. I was skeptical, so I wento go to the store (1hr traffic) to physically ask for the catalog, he just took a random brochure of EL+ (5 year, c10) and tried to fool me and then when I asked for the actual battery catalog he then showed a Invatubular(3 year c20) and said it will be similar, I was pissed off that he lied, he said no one asks weight of batteries, the conversation turned south quickly, he however said that you can get your own weight scale to check the wet weight as the batteries are now factory filled.
 
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blr_p

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got to the step where I enter a phone number and wait for an SMS OTP to arrive from Luminous or wherever. I ran into the same problem that others report on the play store about not receiving the SMS OTP to register, which means I can't even proceed any further with the app until I put in the OTP that never arrives.

I contacted customer care and asked them to get their servers to send the damn OTP to register on the Zelio WiFi app and they don't have the slightest idea of what I am talking about. No logging, no debug mode available in the app. either. Guess, I'll have to retry every so often hoping that their SMS webservice suddenly starts working or their server reboots or whatever. Or perhaps try and MITM and see what the app. is doing (don't know if this is even possible, I am not an expert in this).
The iOS version of the app seems to be working just fine going by the single comment there

https://itunes.apple.com/in/app/zelio-wi-fi/id1397281286?mt=8

Does it make any difference if you enter some random number for OTP, say 1234
 

jsmithe

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The iOS version of the app seems to be working just fine going by the single comment there

https://itunes.apple.com/in/app/zelio-wi-fi/id1397281286?mt=8
The language used and the single line comment make me more than a bit suspicious. Looks like an employee review very similar to the other single line review on the Google Play Store.

Does it make any difference if you enter some random number for OTP, say 1234
I had tried the random number trick for the OTP which didn't work.

The OTP now shows up, sometimes immediately, sometimes much later (and no it's not the mobile service provider since other SMS's including other service provider OTP's all come in right on time) and sometimes never. When I manage to get a usable OTP, the app spins a while and then just says "communication failure" no matter how many times I try to connect.

From the comments on the Google Play Store indicating 5 to 10 days for an OTP to get sent out it could be that there is a manual step in the OTP process at Luminous.

I haven't been able to get Luminous customer care (a misnomer) to even respond. It's like :banghead: I've given up on the POS app and Luminous for now. I will wait to see if any updates come out that fix the app (most likely will make things worse). Looks like I am not the only one irritated with this company, going by other people's reviews and complaints all over the place.

This is my last Luminous product ever.
 
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blr_p

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From the comments on the Google Play Store indicating 5 to 10 days for an OTP to get sent out it could be that there is a manual step in the OTP process at Luminous.
Right, that is what the latest comment in the playstore by Amol Surve suggests. So far just one guy managed to get it working.

When I manage to get a usable OTP, the app spins a while and then just says "communication failure" no matter how many times I try to connect.
i see so it won't even let you enter in your wifi details
 
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jsmithe

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I see so it won't even let you enter in your wifi details
WiFi configuration is before the OTP which is the last step, so yeah that completed successfully.

At app. first start post install, it scans for the Zelio (which I guess is in AP mode), router WiFi configuration is entered into the app, the app validates the WiFi configuration, pushes it out to the Zelio, then disconnects from the Zelio WiFi AP and connects to the router WiFi. Next, a QR code on the invoice is to be scanned and validated which also completes. The next step is to enter a mobile number and wait for an SMS OTP from Luminous that is terribly, slow/unreliable in getting across. Once the OTP is received, logon from the app. using the OTP and wait for the app. to attempt to connect to the Zelio. That's where I am stuck at with a "communication failure" error.

Edit: Rethinking a bit, I am not sure if it is the WiFi configuration step first and then the QR code or vice versa. Either way, the OTP is the last step in the configuration


Logon is only possible (once the mobile is validated via OTP) with OTP or a linked Google/Facebook (which doesn't appear to work either). Tried to link Google to the app, it gets as far as Google prompting to allow access, I allow the access and then nothing happens from the app. end.

Every time I logon via the app. I am prompted to use the linked account (which does not work since the app. did nothing with the Google permission grant) or SMS OTP (which comes across when it feels like it). Since the linked account does not work, I have to use SMS OTP and when I finally am able to logon with an OTP that made it's way across by walking/crawling from wherever - boom "Communication failure" error message attempting to connect to the Zelio.

I have tried uninstalling and re-installing the app. repeating each step carefully but it did not help. I guess I will try one last time
 
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blr_p

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Once the OTP is received, logon from the app. using the OTP and wait for the app. to attempt to connect to the Zelio. That's where I am stuck at with a "communication failure" error.
Problem with that error message is its ambigious. Does not say where the communication failure occurred. Did the app fail to connect to the Zelio or did the Zelio not connect to the net ? If you could configure wifi then the app and the Zelio can see each other. The Zelio should be pingable on your LAN maybe even show up as a connected device in your router logs.

I suspect the Zelio has to get out to the net but cannot and that is where the failure may be. Reason i say this is when i got the smarteefi switch i tried for two hours to make the damn thing work and got no where. Then i called up support and we tried for another hour to no avail. Almost about to conclude the product was faulty but i persisted. Have to commend smarteefi support, it was 10pm on a saturday and the guy from his home just worked with me patiently.

In the end the problem was i had googles DNS servers in the router settings. I've had them for years because ping times to those servers was faster than to airtels. Decided to let the router get the DNS from airtel instead.

BANG! it worked and has worked flawlessly till now, almost eleven months later.

Why using the ISP servers let the switch get out to the net and not google's is beyond me. But this is a problem that only tech people would encounter. Most would stick with the ISP's servers and all would be fine. The problem was one silly router setting (!)

If this doesn't work then you have to use a wifi sniffer. Some network cards can be set in promiscuous mode, you run a sniff then check to see how the communications work in wireshark. You will be able to see communications between your phone, zelio & router and figure out what got refused and where the failure really occurred
 
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jsmithe

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Problem with that error message is its ambigious. Does not say where the communication failure occurred. Did the app fail to connect to the Zelio or did the Zelio not connect to the net ? If you could configure wifi then the app and the Zelio can see each other. The Zelio should be pingable on your LAN maybe even show up as a connected device in your router logs.
The Zelio does show up in the list of connected devices and is ping-able on the LAN.

Have to commend smarteefi support, it was 10pm on a saturday and the guy from his home just worked with me patiently.
The exact opposite with Luminous who just ignore their customers.

In the end the problem was i had googles DNS servers in the router settings. I've had them for years because ping times to those servers was faster than to airtels. Decided to let the router get the DNS from airtel instead.
BANG! it worled and has worked flawlessly till now, almost eleven months later. Why using the ISP servers let the switch get out to the net and not google's is beyond me. But this is a problem that only tech people would encounter. Most would stick with the ISP's servers and all would be fine. The problem was one silly router setting (!)
That's the DNS setup I have too. Thanks for the tip. Let me try switching to the ISP DNS and see if it works although I can't see using the ISP's crappy DNS longer term.

If this doesn't work then you have to use a wifi sniffer. Some network cards can be set in promiscuous mode, you run a sniff then check to see how the communications work in wireshark. You will be able to see communications between your phone, zelio & router and figure out what got refused and where the failure really occurred
Yep, last resort.
 

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Looking at the instabrite catalog and it says its fume resistant.

instabrite 1.JPG


I have no idea how that is possible but talking to someone that has this battery stored indoors they've not noticed any weird smell so that's good.

instabrite 2.JPG


Simple ready reckoner which will work with any 150AH C20 battery. Flat plate or tubular makes no difference as far as run time is concerned. It takes 2 x 150Ah in parallel to get 3h with a load ranging from 441 - 700W. Derating with lead acid is no joke. I wonder how you balance them then. Inverter needs to do it. Otherwise bench charging every three months. Who will do that ??

instabrite 3.JPG


Quite light compared to taller batteries but will need to be replaced sooner.

instabrite 4.JPG


Practical design and short in height
 
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blr_p

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The Zelio does show up in the list of connected devices and is ping-able on the LAN.


The exact opposite with Luminous who just ignore their customers.


That's the DNS setup I have too. Thanks for the tip. Let me try switching to the ISP DNS and see if it works although I can't see using the ISP's crappy DNS longer term.


Yep, last resort.
Any updates, a second person on the playstore has confirmed the app has recently started working.

I noticed the 1500VA model is now available on luminous website.

However Regalia 1550 at the price that i want still isn't. That UPS has a max load of 900W. The Zelio adds 350W more but needs two lead acid batteries
 

vivek.krishnan

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In the end the problem was i had googles DNS servers in the router settings. I've had them for years because ping times to those servers was faster than to airtels. Decided to let the router get the DNS from airtel instead.

BANG! it worked and has worked flawlessly till now, almost eleven months later.

Why using the ISP servers let the switch get out to the net and not google's is beyond me. But this is a problem that only tech people would encounter. Most would stick with the ISP's servers and all would be fine. The problem was one silly router setting (!)

If this doesn't work then you have to use a wifi sniffer. Some network cards can be set in promiscuous mode, you run a sniff then check to see how the communications work in wireshark. You will be able to see communications between your phone, zelio & router and figure out what got refused and where the failure really occurred
Weird. Could you give more details on this?
 

blr_p

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Weird. Could you give more details on this?
Instead of manually inputting googles DNS like i have for over a decade in the router settings i set the router to get DNS from the ISP. That's it. I figured the switch couldn't get out so i tried that.

Could be a bug with the R7000, not updated the firmware as it works fine as is except for that little quirk.

Way to debug what these 'smart' devices are doing is to check firewall logs. But normal routers don't give that kind of detail. Can only see such a device connected not what it is doing or where it wants to go.
 
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blr_p

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A whole lot of calculations for a simple answer.

Lead-acid + 2kVA cruze @ Rs. 40k = 4.8 KWh
Regalia 1550 @ Rs. 80k = 2.4KWh

so you're spending twice as much for half the energy capacity. Funny how it works out to exactly those figures.

Which was what i said originally about lithium ion vs LA.

Carry on with the calculations...
Some thing else to consider and this is the kicker.

Cycle count at 100% DOD :)

How many cycles from lead acid ? 800 or good for 3-4 years. Steep slope.

lead acid.jpg


How many cycles from LiFePO4 ? 3000! Gentle slope.

LiFePO4 cycles.JPG


That means you will replace those lead acids THREE times by the time the lithium one is done.

To get 200AH, i'm going with 2 x 150AH with derating and efficiency.

That's 30k a pop @5% inflation every 3 years for a total of 8 x 150AH batteries

30 + 35 + 40 + 46 = 1.5L

Now what this does is make lead acid close to twice as expensive as lithium :D

 
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Julian

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Where the heck are you getting these insanely optimistic LiIon figures? I think the new wave of Li marketing is unleashed in full force.

If it really had 1/2 the TCO of lead acid, you would see corporates, who have no issues in large initial investment unlike us common folk, all switch rto li-ion for their backups.

And LA batteries won't give you 800 deep discharge (100%) cycles. Less than 500 maybe (2-3 years at most). So now you can say it's 3 times as expensive as Li ! :rolleyes: