Chimney Aluminium Pipe

[laugh]

I have bought a Chimney and installation guy came today and explained the procedure. He did not install today as some prior carpentry work has to be done.

I was told that I will be charged 1300 for the aluminium exit pipe. It's dimensions are 4" diameter and 10' length and it looks like I won't be needing the whole 10', I will need like 4 to 5'.

Is there a place where I can buy smaller lengths? (I am from Chennai) What did you guys do when you installed chimneys?

 

[cranky]

PVC drain pipe works just as well and will cut to any size. Plus, it can hold paint better than Aluminum. When we did have a chimney (and we got rid of it real fast because it collects gunk faster than the underbody of a car and is impossible to keep properly clean over a long period - say 10 years), our installer used PVC pipe. When we removed it finally the inside of the pipe was sparkling clean, so obviously it works just as well.

 

[laugh]

PVC drain pipe works just as well and will cut to any size. Plus, it can hold paint better than Aluminum. When we did have a chimney (and we got rid of it real fast because it collects gunk faster than the underbody of a car and is impossible to keep properly clean over a long period - say 10 years), our installer used PVC pipe. When we removed it finally the inside of the pipe was sparkling clean, so obviously it works just as well.

What about looks? Will the PVC setup looks less desirable than Aluminium?

I have this chimney

http://www.naaptol.com/electric-chimneys/glen-st-gl-6001-ss-pb-bf/P/46358.html

 

[cranky]

That's why it is painted to match your kitchen, or conceal the part above the actual chimney.And no, the aluminum they use is the thin type that deforms if a fly sits on it. It actually looks worse.

Both will collect oil and grease, though I suspect Al may be a bit easier to clean than paint over PVC. I must say that in 10 years of use the chimney was the part that looked really gross, and it was so bad we didn't even notice the pipe. It's only the horizontal part of the pipe that collects gunk, and gunk has a height limit so if the installation goes well the pipe will be out of reach of 95% of the oils.

Of course, if your family is not fond of fried stuff (we're bongs, so we tend to eat a lot of that crap), grease is not a problem.

 

[namrata]

Buy the aluminum flue yourself. It costs hardly 550. You won't get a shorter length but don't worry as it's streachable. Just unwind the desired length.

 

[laugh]

That's why it is painted to match your kitchen, or conceal the part above the actual chimney.And no, the aluminum they use is the thin type that deforms if a fly sits on it. It actually looks worse.

Both will collect oil and grease, though I suspect Al may be a bit easier to clean than paint over PVC. I must say that in 10 years of use the chimney was the part that looked really gross, and it was so bad we didn't even notice the pipe. It's only the horizontal part of the pipe that collects gunk, and gunk has a height limit so if the installation goes well the pipe will be out of reach of 95% of the oils.

Of course, if your family is not fond of fried stuff (we're bongs, so we tend to eat a lot of that crap), grease is not a problem.

Points noted. Would be great if someone who used aluminium could comment how it fared. Since this is open kitchen looks are even more important!

Buy the aluminum flue yourself. It costs hardly 550. You won't get a shorter length but don't worry as it's streachable. Just unwind the desired length.

Is it available in hardware shops or what kind of shops stock them?

"It's stretchable"
Ah, I see. The length of the pipe (packed in a cardboard box) that the installer bought hardly looked like it was 3 feet even though the box read 10'. I thought the installer brought part of the 10' pipe!

I assume you are using aluminium. How is it coming along and did you paint it or left it as it is. A picture if possible would be cool.

 

[namrata]

When we removed it finally the inside of the pipe was sparkling clean, so obviously it works just as well.

it's because the chimney filter (most probably, baffle filter) did its job properly. pipe is meant for exhaust gases and the hood itself is supposed to collect the gunk - and that's why it's either washable or self-cleaning.

Points noted. Would be great if someone who used aluminium could comment how it fared. Since this is open kitchen looks are even more important!

I assume you are using aluminium. How is it coming along and did you paint it or left it as it is. A picture if possible would be cool.

an aluminium conduit has acceptable looks as people know what it's meant for. on the other hand, a PVC pipe may look hideous in a kitchen (no offence to cranky). i'd suggest you to look for a rectangular PVC pipe. it looks neat.

we are going to hide the aluminium conduit inside the cabinets. but it's hanged (installed) in such a way that it can be removed for painting the walls in future.

Is it available in hardware shops or what kind of shops stock them?

yes, you can get it from the hardware shop. or the guys selling chimneys, cooktops etc. we bought 6'' diameter one for Rs 500. i think the bigger diameter helps in reducing the noise and smoke flows through much easily than the 4'' one.

 

[laugh]

an aluminium conduit has acceptable looks as people know what it's meant for. on the other hand, a PVC pipe may look hideous in a kitchen (no offence to cranky). i'd suggest you to look for a rectangular PVC pipe. it looks neat.

we are going to hide the aluminium conduit inside the cabinets. but it's hanged (installed) in such a way that it can be removed for painting the walls in future.

Do you think a rectangular PVC pipe will look more desirable than Aluminium? Out of all material which is more durable?

yes, you can get it from the hardware shop. or the guys selling chimneys, cooktops etc. we bought 6'' diameter one for Rs 500. i think the bigger diameter helps in reducing the noise and smoke flows through much easily than the 4'' one.

Will shop for this and let you know how this went.[DOUBLEPOST=1367043672][/DOUBLEPOST]Just contacted few dealers and all are quoting the same 750rs for 4",10' feet. They don't have 6" aluminium tubes. I called only Electrical chimney dealers. Will visit few hardware shops and see.

The installer was trying to pull a quick one by trying to sell me the pipe for 1300.

And I asked the opinion of a dealer on PVC vs Aluminium and he said that PVC will not be able to hold oil and that it will send back the smoke with time. I can understand that PVC may not hold oil but how can it send back the smoke?

The Chimney installer who came asked me to place a plywood over the window. The chimney's height is 9" and the plywood that will support the chimney should be 11"- 12" in height for safety.

 

[namrata]

Do you think a rectangular PVC pipe will look more desirable than Aluminium? Out of all material which is more durable?

yes, a rectangular PVC pipe is more aesthetic. but before buying the rectangular PVC pipe, check if you can get a proper coupling.

out of the two, ALU is more durable as it's meant for heat transfer (that's why it's stretchable). PVC is meant for water drainage and i am not aware of it's heat bearing capacity. people still use PVC, unknowingly. what are the chances of PVC pipe melting down if you had removed the blower for some repair? in this case, some part of the PVC pipe will be directly above the hot flames. will it melt down the pipe? i don't know, because the blower itself is made of PVC and it sits directly above the hot flames (with filter in between) but it's more heat resistant.

 

[laugh]

Will stick to Aluminium then.

 

[cranky]

i am not aware of it's heat bearing capacity. people still use PVC, unknowingly. what are the chances of PVC pipe melting down if you had removed the blower for some repair?

It's sufficient.

A correct installation will not subject the pipe itself to any heat directly. The blower should ideally cover most of the heated area above the stove. If the chimney is taken down for repair and you do happen to use the stove, the pipe end should be at a sufficient height to avoid any concentrated heat directly, specially if there is something cooking. Most external plumbing is PVC, and the temperatures can hit above 60 degrees when they bake all day in the sun. This is not a problem at all.

Also, the movement of air through the pipe is enough to keep internal temperatures low enough. When we uninstalled the chimney this year after 10+ years of service, the pipe showed no signs of cracking or discoloration, except a coat of grease at the first bend due to oils. Took a couple minutes to sand it off. In fact, we briefly toyed with the idea of repainting it and using it as a bass port for a very large in-wall subwoofer, as it was basically mint under the paint. That was discarded because the drivers wouldn't have worked in a ported enclosure.

Also, have you seen what happens to aluminum after 10 year in exposed conditions?

If the TS is using a concealed fitting the material of the pipe is immaterial (pardon the pun) in terms of cosmetic appearance. PVC pipe works just as well, and though it is weaker cosmetically, paint can be used to extreme effect on the surface, and is fully customisable with successive remodels. Also, PVC pipes tend to make much less audible clatter than metal fluting.

Either works, it's basically a judgement call.

 

[laugh]

Also, the recommended height is 2.5 feet from the countertop. Can I place the chimney a bit higher than that, say 0.5 or 1 feet?

 

[namrata]

1' is too much. i know why you want to do that. you don't have that much suction capacity already. i moved my chimney just 2'' higher but i'll move it down someday (yes i moved my chimney).

 

[tech.addict]

For optimum suction power it will have to be placed at the recommended height. Also make sure the outlet PVC pipe has as few bends as possible. One bend will have to be there but try not to have more.

 

[laugh]

1' is too much. i know why you want to do that. you don't have that much suction capacity already. i moved my chimney just 2'' higher but i'll move it down someday (yes i moved my chimney).

You know why? If I move it higher I will be able to use the window. From your post I understand I should not move. Is it ok If I place it less than 1.5 feet will it be inconvenient when cooking? (IF I cannot move it up and use the window I may well move it down for better suction. )

For optimum suction power it will have to be placed at the recommended height. Also make sure the outlet PVC pipe has as few bends as possible. One bend will have to be there but try not to have more.

Will do. I am inclined more towards aluminium right now.

 

[namrata]

You know why? If I move it higher I will be able to use the window. From your post I understand I should not move. Is it ok If I place it less than 1.5 feet will it be inconvenient when cooking? (IF I cannot move it up and use the window I may well move it down for better suction. )

LOL... i thought you wanted to move it up to avoid getting your hair sucked into the hood. don't move it up too much as it'll defeat its purpose. if you have the luxury to waste some time then you can try various heights. i couldn't do it because of the tiles. but you can temporarily tie the chimney to the window and see how well the smoke gets sucked into it at various heights.

what? you have a window behind your cooktop? why are you even spending money on chimney? it's useless in this case and will spoil the look of your kitchen. i guess it's too late now that you've already bought the chimney. else, you could've installed 2 nice low noise extractor fans in the window and they would've worked more efficiently than your current model of the chimney.

i have a Cata extractor fan which hardly makes any sound and no one can make out it's there when switched off. it has a moving privacy screen. and to avoid banging my head into the chimney, i got a slanted model... don't know what's it's called. i've got the 90cm model. it's not the same but the shape looks like this:

 

[laugh]

LOL... i thought you wanted to move it up to avoid getting your hair sucked into the hood. don't move it up too much as it'll defeat its purpose. if you have the luxury to waste some time then you can try various heights. i couldn't do it because of the tiles. but you can temporarily tie the chimney to the window and see how well the smoke gets sucked into it at various heights.
View attachment 21013

I have time but the thing is this is more like our second house where we will cook occasionally (read 4 or 5 meals a week) and we will start cooking from June. This chimney is more of a cosmetic addition, again I am doing this only for the looks and if there is a better looking solution I am for it.

what? you have a window behind your cooktop? why are you even spending money on chimney? it's useless in this case and will spoil the look of your kitchen. i guess it's too late now that you've already bought the chimney. else, you could've installed 2 nice low noise extractor fans in the window and they would've worked more efficiently than your current model of the chimney.
View attachment 21013

It looks like when redoing the house no amount of planning will result in perfection! I have to purchase a stove from the store and I can always ask them to exchange if you think it will spoil the looks rather than enhancing it.



Even if I install fans in the window, the windows are going to unusable?

i have a Cata extractor fan which hardly makes any sound and no one can make out it's there when switched off. it has a moving privacy screen. and to avoid banging my head into the chimney, i got a slanted model... don't know what's it's called. i've got the 90cm model. it's not the same but the shape looks like this:
View attachment 21013

The slanted model looks cool. Are these the fans you are talking about http://www.cataindia.com/ExtractorFans.php Do you think these will look better than the chimney setup.

Below are the pictures of the kitchen.














In the second image I have covered the window with a sheet to prevent sunlight and the first image is as it is. The hole on the top is the exhaust fan hole. (The fan will be removed and the chimney exit pipe will go through this)

The kitchen as you can see is tiny and it's open to the hall which is about 140 sq.ft. The countertop is 34 inches from the ground and the window is 44 inches in length and 18 inches wide. The height from the window to the top is 24 inches.

 

[namrata]

it looks like that window is crucial for some light and your chimney is going to spoil the look, with light shining through the uncovered areas. ideally, your cooktop and sink should switch places but that's how it's setup right now. a window behind cooking area is generally considered a fire hazard.

i was expecting some cabinets alongside the chimney but there isn't a space for them. so a chimney would definitely enhance the looks. i was also expecting ventilators above the window and therefore, i suggested extractor fans. but the pictures gave a clear idea. here's what i suggest; see if it suits you:

1) leave your current exhaust fan at the current location. you'll need it as a back up.
2) plan your chimney's exhaust right above the window. bore a 5'' exhaust hole at the shortest length possible to hide the exhaust pipe right behind the chimney's exhaust cover.
3) don't buy aluminium flue as it's not required now. buy a 5'' PVC 'bend' instead and mate it directly to the coupler supplied with chimney, with aluminium tape (Rs 50). you can buy aluminium flue as well but you won't be able to cut it short without spoiling it.

any kind of flue exiting at the current exhaust fan location will mar the looks and it's not necessary when you've got an exit wall right behind the cooktop.

i couldn't make out if the window is cast iron or wooden. if it's cast iron then simply weld the latches at a lower location to operate the window. well, it's much more easier to relocate the latches on a wooden window.

i have double the size of chimney exhaust covers which almost touches the roof, just like in this pic:

in your case, you can adjust the height of your exhaust hole to achieve the same "hidden flue" look. attach some kind of cowl (pic below) on the outside to prevent backdraft, birds, lizards etc entering the exhaust opening.

yes, i have those hi-end Cata fans (http://www.cataindia.com/Fan-X-Mart-Matic.php), meant for bathrooms. but i tested it in kitchen and it stayed there. i tried weird installations with extractor fans and then backed out as i thought those plastic fans would melt down.

 

[6pack]

I think hdpe (common for plastic pipes, pipe joints, fans etc) has a melting point of 120deg Celsius. So unless you put it on fire it has low chance of going up in flames.

 

[laugh]

it looks like that window is crucial for some light and your chimney is going to spoil the look, with light shining through the uncovered areas. ideally, your cooktop and sink should switch places but that's how it's setup right now. a window behind cooking area is generally considered a fire hazard.

Actually, the sink and cooktop were at the ideal positions and we shifted it for convenience/vastu/who know what (Forgot why we shifted).

i was expecting some cabinets alongside the chimney but there isn't a space for them. so a chimney would definitely enhance the looks. i was also expecting ventilators above the window and therefore, i suggested extractor fans. but the pictures gave a clear idea. here's what i suggest; see if it suits you:

1) leave your current exhaust fan at the current location. you'll need it as a back up.

2) plan your chimney's exhaust right above the window. bore a 5'' exhaust hole at the shortest length possible to hide the exhaust pipe right behind the chimney's exhaust cover.

What is the need of exhaust fan backup? To provide more suction power or to serve the purpose when the chimney fails?

Don't you think it will look nicer if we just cover the exhaust fan hole and drill a 5" exhaust hole at the shortest possible length.( as you suggested)

3) don't buy aluminium flue as it's not required now. buy a 5'' PVC 'bend' instead and mate it directly to the coupler supplied with chimney, with aluminium tape (Rs 50). you can buy aluminium flue as well but you won't be able to cut it short without spoiling it.

Done and done.

any kind of flue exiting at the current exhaust fan location will mar the looks and it's not necessary when you've got an exit wall right behind the cooktop.

i couldn't make out if the window is cast iron or wooden. if it's cast iron then simply weld the latches at a lower location to operate the window. well, it's much more easier to relocate the latches on a wooden window.

The window is cast iron and will see what can be done with the latches.

in your case, you can adjust the height of your exhaust hole to achieve the same "hidden flue" look. attach some kind of cowl (pic below) on the outside to prevent backdraft, birds, lizards etc entering the exhaust opening.View attachment 21037

Can I get cowls from shops selling chimneys. What will be the cost and what are the different options. Again, your advice is required here.

Glad that I started this thread. Architects don't really care about these fine details and I am sure I am going to have a superb installation. Thanks again for your wonderful help.