40-47" tv

[adder]

Asking because LG scores when it comes to price and many buyers (not in TE) would be lured that "47" ka TV 70k-80k mein mil raha hai..arrre waah" and thus not making an informed decision.

no question about that,in size vs money lg wins hands down,in india LG and samsung are assembled in india hence they get a tax benefit,customs duties on imported panels coming from korea and taiwan are taxed at 5%,but a sony is a direct import from thailand(mostly) or malayasia,which is taxed at some 30% or more.
secondly LG panel prices of 42" and above are the cheapest for any OEM to buy like panasonic,philips etc.
AUO optronics one of the suppliers to sony and samsung are one of the highest in terms of price.
the funny thing here is sony,despite their tvs priced high even abroad,there lcd tv business is still under loss,they hope to get even in 2010 and make profits in 2011,so meaning sony lcd tvs like PS3 is selling under loss.

this year sony posted a loss of more then 1 billion dollars.where as rival samsung posted the biggest profit,mainly coming from TV sales with a large chunk of profit coming from LED tvs ,many consumers still believe that LED tv is a new tech,hell even AV max magazine thought it was a new tech despite they reviewing them.:rofl:

i feel the right time to buy a tv is in may to august,by that time we will see 2010 models with improved power efficiency ,contrast,response time etc most importantly cheaper to buy.

 

[raksrules]

^^ There is supposedly nothing like right time as you see when as a consumer i am eying a particular model / brand / price range at this point of time and i have to wait say a couple of months for a new model that is going to be launched, then at that point of time there will be something else which would be coming at even later stage and then the wait goes on and on.

Moreover if a model is having presence in market and is known to be good then better to go with that rather than buying a new model which has still not been tested.

 

[adder]

^^ There is supposedly nothing like right time as you see when as a consumer i am eying a particular model / brand / price range at this point of time and i have to wait say a couple of months for a new model that is going to be launched, then at that point of time there will be something else which would be coming at even later stage and then the wait goes on and on.
Moreover if a model is having presence in market and is known to be good then better to go with that rather than buying a new model which has still not been tested.

well this opinion varies from person to person,if a person has to buy a television then he can buy them now.but if a person who is in no rush they can wait.
well most manufactures like samsung,sony,panasonic launches new models in may to august in india.
sharp as already announced 2010 lcd tvs,infact they are launching in just 9 days from now in japan,with their new UV2A based lcd tvs.which a completely revolutionary tech.
AUO have announced AMVA5 with contrast reaching as high as 16000:1 vs current AMVA3 which peaks at 5000:1 (contrast company claimed).

 

[raksrules]

^^ I suppose you are talking about static contrast here (if that term exists) as again those outrageously high dynamic contrast ratios claimed by company. Moreover the technology and their TVs that you are mentioning will be highly priced and for model of say 46" and plus it would mean paying by an arm and leg.

 

[thexfactor]

^ Yeah, the newer technology will always be higher priced, the only advantage would be you could get the older tech tv's for a much lesser price.

 

[adder]

^^ I suppose you are talking about static contrast here (if that term exists) as again those outrageously high dynamic contrast ratios claimed by company. Moreover the technology and their TVs that you are mentioning will be highly priced and for model of say 46" and plus it would mean paying by an arm and leg.

well agreed that the static contrast is also slightly blow out of proposition,but current sony and samsung lcd with AMVA3 or SPVA panels with static OEM advertized contrast are around 5000:1 ,but in reality its something like around 3000:1 if u go by the ANSI way.

well lcd panel prices continue to fall with better manufacturing efficiency,now a glass substrate cut in 10g plant will workout cheaper then the older 7g and 8g plants.
again companies like AUO will phase out older tech like AMVA3,just like they phased out AMVA1 and 2nd and history shows that they newer lcd tvs are priced cheaper then their older ones.
here is a classic example this a new sony 37S550A http://www.sony.co.in/product/klv-37s550a launched less thena a month ago,here is the price of the older 37S400A http://www.sony.co.in/product/klv-37s400a.
same goes to the 40" version of those both in S and V series.

 

[thexfactor]

here is a classic example this a new sony 37S550A KLV-37S550A : S Series : BRAVIA LCD TV : Sony India launched less thena a month ago,here is the price of the older 37S400A KLV-37S400A : S Series : BRAVIA LCD TV : Sony India.
same goes to the 40" version of those both in S and V series.

Hmmm ... thats true, but I was talking more in the context of LED's and LCD's.

 

[VOiLA]

@adder, I must say that you are really a very knowledgeable person and you have somehow convinced me to buy a new led/led TV in April/May 2010.

Thanks everyone.

 

[adder]

Hmmm ... thats true, but I was talking more in the context of LED's and LCD's.

do note the lcd panel makes bulk of the cost of lcd tv.so if panel prices fall,this month alone the panel prices reportedly fell by $5 an average 32" lcd panel cost about $230 for OEM.
well LEDs will be the norm in future,currently the LED modules are almost as cheap as CCFL,samsung made millions in the US with their LED marketing.

but u can see the prices are very cheap now launch price of LED lcd was 1.20lakh today can be found as low as 85k.still they are pushing LEDs due to high profit margin.
by 2012 we will see LED lit backlight lcds tvs as the norm,it will be cheaper then ccfl backlight,more power efficient then current LED tech used in tvs which is around 80 lumens/watts,they already have 160lumens/watt prototypes.

 

[blr_p]

What do you think of this characterisation ?

- S-IPS good for daytime viewing (LG)
- S-PVA better at night. (Samsung/Sony)

How one perceives colour on these screen could matter depending on the ambient light.

 

[Doc Holliday]

How much does the 50" Plasmas cost?

 

[blr_p]

The samsung plasmas seem a lot cheaper for the same size compared with the LED's. Colour reproduction & response time are better too.

Only problem is they need darker rooms to work with.

 

[adder]

What do you think of this characterisation ?

- S-IPS good for daytime viewing (LG)
- S-PVA better at night. (Samsung/Sony)

How one perceives colour on these screen could matter depending on the ambient light.

well actually both are good for daytime.obviously the S-PVA/AMVA have the edge in night time.also a set that has good contrast will show good shadow details.so if u are eyes can see those details then i guess the SPVA/AMVA also have the edge in daytime.

well that is true that colors do appear different with ambient light.one area IPS has a edge in viewing angle.

The samsung plasmas seem a lot cheaper for the same size compared with the LED's. Colour reproduction & response time are better too.

Only problem is they need darker rooms to work with.

well they certainly are cheap,the color reproduction is about the same as LED lcd so neither is perfect,response time the plasma as the edge.

 

[blr_p]

well they certainly are cheap,the color reproduction is about the same as LED lcd so neither is perfect,response time the plasma as the edge.

Check out this comparison and debate between LED vs plasma. Plasma comes out ahead whilst being cheaper for the same size.

LED is almost there, Plasma is there today

My uncle had picked up a samsung LCD cpl yrs back and i asked why he had not gone with a plasma, he said the store guy told him there had been defects with some models and recommended LCD instead.

Does Plasma have a future ? -- all in Panasonic's hands and how good their network is here.

LCD/LED seems to have more features but in the end, you get a TV to watch and picture quality makes or breaks it.

The plasma will age over time and there is nothing that can be done, at half life it will be half as bright, however the LCD lasts as long as its backlight does. Now if (not sure how easy it is to find this spare part ?) you can get the backlight replaced then the LCD will outlast the plasma.

 

[adder]

Check out this comparison and debate between LED vs plasma. Plasma comes out ahead whilst being cheaper for the same size.

LED is almost there, Plasma is there today

My uncle had picked up a samsung LCD cpl yrs back and i asked why he had not gone with a plasma, he said the store guy told him there had been defects with some models and recommended LCD instead.

Does Plasma have a future ? -- all in Panasonic's hands and how good their network is here.

LCD/LED seems to have more features but in the end, you get a TV to watch and picture quality makes or breaks it.

The plasma will age over time and there is nothing that can be done, at half life it will be half as bright, however the LCD lasts as long as its backlight does. Now if (not sure how easy it is to find this spare part ?) you can get the backlight replaced then the LCD will outlast the plasma.

well like i said the main edge of plasma todays in price then say a couple of years ago where it clearly had performance edge.
the LCD VS plasma debate will continue,i bet someone ,somewhere in some forum their is a battle going on as we post here.:rofl:

well while the best tv out there arguably may be the i.e pioneer kuro which is also EOL,the kuro was good because of various factors great blacks,colors,image processing.the same cannot to be said for other plasma tvs.

both techs have their pros and cons,although the plasma tech isn't improving as much as lcds.lcd tech have improved by many folds,plasma manufactures have a tough time in making plasma tvs more energy efficienct.with the proposed energy laws in europe and some states in US.
currently LED lcd tvs consume around 3 or even 4 times lesser power then a similar sized plasma,the gap is only going to narrow since LED technology is almost following moores law,in this case its light output vs watt.

 

[blr_p]

well like i said the main edge of plasma todays in price then say a couple of years ago where it clearly had performance edge.

Looking at compare india, i'd say you pay a third less for a plasma of the same size.

well while the best tv out there arguably may be the i.e pioneer kuro which is also EOL,the kuro was good because of various factors great blacks,colors,image processing.the same cannot to be said for other plasma tvs.

Which plasma models would you choose to compete with the B6000 or 40W550A ?

currently LED lcd tvs consume around 3 or even 4 times lesser power then a similar sized plasma,the gap is only going to narrow since LED technology is almost following moores law,in this case its light output vs watt.

Sony 40W550A does 180W
Samy 40B6000 does 140W

Looking at the panasonic ones in 42", power consumed varies in the range from 285 upto 445W. I'll pick the TH-P42X10D which is the most economical at 285W. My 24" CRT only consumes 120W !!

So lets assume lifetime of 60k hours @Rs.5/unit

Samy would have a running cost of Rs.42k
X10D would have a running cost of Rs.85.5K

Samy cost ~ Rs.90k
The X10D ~ Rs.50k

So lifetime, samy works out to Rs.90k + Rs.42k = Rs.1.32 lakh
X10D plasma works out to Rs.50k + Rs.85.5k = Rs.1.355 lakh

Difference is just Rs.3,500 more for this plasma (which is 2" bigger) in total cost !

Big question is how does X10D plasma compare to the samy in terms of viewing quality ?

Other, better looking plasmas could very well consume more power and cost more than the X10D

...but lets see what you choose to compete with the samy

 

[adder]

Looking at compare india, i'd say you pay a third less for a plasma of the same size.

well depends on the brand,but i mean samsung sold series 5 40" for 47 to 49k with free dvd player etc for diwali,even now its priced at 52k for that price u can't get a FHD plasma.so lcds are getting cheaper at least in 40" segment.in 50" its a different story.

Which plasma models would you choose to compete with the B6000 or 40W550A ?

well panasonic G10.all have their own pros and cons

Sony 40W550A does 180W
Samy 40B6000 does 140W

well those are the maximum power consumption,at full backlight settings,max volume,usb ports occupied etc.
if u adjust it house settings,tone down the backlight a samsung LED lcd will consume about 75watts and about 90watts to 110watts for the W550A

Looking at the panasonic ones in 42", power consumed varies in the range from 285 upto 445W. I'll pick the TH-P42X10D which is the most economical at 285W. My 24" CRT only consumes 120W !!

So lets assume lifetime of 60k hours @Rs.5/unit

Samy would have a running cost of Rs.42k
X10D would have a running cost of Rs.85.5K

Samy cost ~ Rs.90k
The X10D ~ Rs.50k

So lifetime, samy works out to Rs.90k + Rs.42k = Rs.1.32 lakh
X10D plasma works out to Rs.50k + Rs.85.5k = Rs.1.355 lakh

Difference is just Rs.3,500 more for this plasma (which is 2" bigger) in total cost !

well its not always about the money saved in power efficiency we are talking about india where many villages still don't have power,in karnataka alone there are power shortage,while we in city cry even for 1 hr of power cut,those people in villages get power as low as just 4hrs a day,according to newspapers.
now those people in the villages are also humans ,they to wan't to switch ON a fan when its hot,or switch ON the light when its dark,or see tv which is only form of entertainment.
so imagine if all people start to buy plasma,we are going to have a severe power crisis,i mean just by a potential flat screen owner going from a 21" to a 42" plasma,the power consumed is more then double,if he goes for a 40" lcd he or she will save around 120watts at least ,which is inuff to power a light bulb and a fan in village,in case if they use a CFL u may squeeze in a 14" tv.

btw do check out this video,all consumers must watch. http://www.techenclave.com/general-talk/the-story-stuff-intresting-video-lol-150221.html

Big question is how does X10D plasma compare to the samy in terms of viewing quality ?

Other, better looking plasmas could very well consume more power and cost more than the X10D

...but lets see what you choose to compete with the samy

well samsung B450 is equaly good plasma,i would say slightly better in SD compared to X10.the X10 of course has the edge in black level and panasonic are less prone to IR.

 

[Emil]

Samy would have a running cost of Rs.42k
X10D would have a running cost of Rs.85.5K

Samy cost ~ Rs.90k
The X10D ~ Rs.50k

So lifetime, samy works out to Rs.90k + Rs.42k = Rs.1.32 lakh
X10D plasma works out to Rs.50k + Rs.85.5k = Rs.1.355 lakh

Difference is just Rs.3,500 more for this plasma (which is 2" bigger) in total cost !

That is a rather unfair comparison too. You are paying a 40K higher upfront cost for the Sammy. The running cost is incurred over the product lifetime which could be many years. Even bank interest on that 40K for those years will earn you far more than that 3.5K.

 

[blr_p]

That is a rather unfair comparison too. You are paying a 40K higher upfront cost for the Sammy. The running cost is incurred over the product lifetime which could be many years. Even bank interest on that 40K for those years will earn you far more than that 3.5K.

Quite right, Rs.40k in a FD for 7 years @7.25% compounded quarterly works out to Rs.66k at maturity or a gain of Rs.26k.

So taking into account the earlier figures for the Samy B6000 & X10 we get

Lifetime, samy works out to Rs.90k + Rs.42k = Rs.1.32 lakh
X10D plasma works out to Rs.50k + Rs.85.5k (-Rs.26k) = Rs.1.095 lakh

You end up saving ~Rs.30k more by end of life going with the X10.

Admittedly the B6000 can have its brightness turned down but as the unit ages you will need to turn the brightness up to counteract so it won't make too much of a difference i think.

panasonic G10....

samsung B450 is equaly good plasma,i would say slightly better in SD compared to X10.the X10 of course has the edge in black level and panasonic are less prone to IR.

Ok lets take those into account
Samy 40B6000 does 140W @Rs.90k
Panasonic G10 does 445W @ Rs65k
Samsung B450 does ?? @50k
Notice how they don't mention any power figures for the B450 but claim it has a better power saving mode compared to models from '07 :O

I'll use panansonic since they are the leaders for Plasma compared to Samung's leader for LCD.

So lets assume lifetime of 60k hours @Rs.5/unit
Samy would have a running cost of Rs.42k
G10 would have a running cost of Rs.1,33,500 (what a hog !!)

Samy cost ~ Rs.90k
The G10 ~ Rs.65k

So lifetime, samy works out to Rs.90k + Rs.42k = Rs.1.32 lakh
G10 plasma works out to Rs.65k + Rs.1.335 lakh = Rs.2 lakh
Cost saving is Rs.25k which matures to Rs.41.3 giving an earning of Rs.16.3k
which equates to TCO of Rs.1.84 lakh for the G10

Choosing the Samsung B600 over the G10 in this case would save Rs.48k in total lifetime cost.

So which plasma model is selected can make a big difference when comparing with a LED model.

well those are the maximum power consumption,at full backlight settings,max volume,usb ports occupied etc.
if u adjust it house settings,tone down the backlight a samsung LED lcd will consume about 75watts and about 90watts to 110watts for the W550A

Correct but using max power also gives you a max cost to work with, ie your running costs will not exceed this amount. They could well be lower but then quantfying is harder.

Now if you reduce backlight to save power are you not bringing the B6000 to the same level of the plasma, ie the LED won't be as bright anymore and will have the same disadvantage of the plasma, needs a darker room to work with ?

The plasma also touts power saving but i don't think this is an option as already the plasma needs a darker room to work with or at least thats what i understood.

so imagine if all people start to buy plasma,we are going to have a severe power crisis,i mean just by a potential flat screen owner going from a 21" to a 42" plasma,the power consumed is more then double,if he goes for a 40" lcd he or she will save around 120watts at least ,which is inuff to power a light bulb and a fan in village,in case if they use a CFL u may squeeze in a 14" tv.

And all these people will very quickly realise that they have to pay for every unit consumed. That too in a country with different power slabs increases the costs even further

 

[adder]

Correct but using max power also gives you a max cost to work with, ie your running costs will not exceed this amount. They could well be lower but then quantfying is harder.

Now if you reduce backlight to save power are you not bringing the B6000 to the same level of the plasma, ie the LED won't be as bright anymore and will have the same disadvantage of the plasma, needs a darker room to work with ?

The plasma also touts power saving but i don't think this is an option as already the plasma needs a darker room to work with or at least thats what i understood.

well do note that the 09 plasma today are even dimmer then 08 plasmas.due to newer energy standard.
while the G10 may show great brightness only if the area of whites shown is less then 30 to 35%.once the whites occupy more then about 35% of the screen ,the ABL or automatic brightness limiter in every plasma will kick in reducing the brightness,when the area of whites shown reaches nearly 100% of the screen. the brightness can be close to about 1/3rd of what it was when whites was 35% of screen.

models like X10 can never match a lcd when whites occupy majority of the screen,even if the lcd is at lowest backlight settings.the X10 is even more dimmer then last years PV8/80.

secondly plasmas no matter how good the anti glare layer is, it still reflects quite a lot more then lcds,even if the lcd has a glossy screen like the samsung models.
in order to compensate for the glare u have to crank up the brightness of backlight.